I pit the stupid housewife study

[tim314]

You know the one I mean. The one that says that a stay at home mom works 92 hours a week and ought be making 140 grand a year.

I get their point: stay at home mothers (and mothers in general) are underappreciated. For the most part, I even agree with them. Guys who like to crow about how they're the "breadwinner" while their wife is at home cooking, cleaning, raising the kids, etc. are complete jackassess. But instead of making the point honestly, these so-called researchers have concocted an absolutely ludicrous measure of a mother's worth.

Basically, they come up with every job a mom does in a day, find out how much it would cost you to pay a servant to do that job, and then add up the result and call it the "salary" the mother's work is worth. Surely they must expect people to look at this salary in comparison to actual salaries that people make. But no one gets paid for every chore they do around the house. Do I get paid whenever I clean the bathroom, vacuum the living room, take out the trash, walk the dogs, or drive myself to work? Hell no! My point is, everyone's salary and number of hours worked would be vastly inflated if you counted every random chore they do as part of their work week. Yet rather than computing the total number of hours the average person spends on all forms of "work" (which I imagine would still have the stay-at-home mom towards the high end) they go for broke and toss out a figure like $140,000 as if it's even remotely reasonable to compare that number to what you or I get paid by our employers. It's not.

Then there's the matter of the choice of jobs they attribute to the mother:
housekeeper, day-care center teacher, cook, computer operator, laundry machine operator, janitor, facilities manager, van driver, chief executive officer and psychologist.

Please, you're getting a CEO's salary for what, running your home? That's the same as running a corporation? I'm not saying CEO's deserve their typically-bloated salaries, but there are economic reasons why they're able to get people to pay them -- reasons which don't factor in when it comes to being a mother. For starters there are a lot more people with experience being a mom than experience running a company. Golly, I wonder what the "researchers" motive was in including such a high paid job in their calculations.

Likewise, are you a psychologist because you talk to your kids about their problems? Get a clue. Psychologists (like many of the other careers on that list) have specialized training. Part of why they make the money they do is because of their degree. Just because you're able to counsel your own kids doesn't mean you have the qualifications to be a psychologist.

If the "researchers" wanted to be honest, they could have just looked up the average salaries of the jobs most comparable to being a stay-at-home mom. Like, say, being a live-in nanny. Anyone want to bet that the average live-in nanny makes 140 grand a year?

Instead of doing a realistic assessment of the no-doubt substantial amount of work the average mother does in a week, these "researchers" seem to have gone out of their way to inflate the mother's monetary worth. (As if how much a person gets paid in any way correlates to the importance of their job, anyway. ) Anyone who'd sacrifice honest reporting of the unbiased truth for the sake of their agenda doesn't deserve to call themselves a researcher. Shame on them, and shame on the media for uncritically reporting this kind of junk research.

Oh, look, I just spent 10 minutes typing up a rant. I'd like a 6th of a secretary's hourly wage now, please.

[Velma]

I agree with this. These kinds of studies always come across to me as patronizing. If it were a real comparison and every stay at home mom was really the equivalent of all these professions, she should in theory be able to decide at any time in her life to go to work full time as one of those things and expect to earn that much working full time? Right.

I know as well as anyone how much work moms do. I work part time and I would have a hard time choosing which are my easier days, my days at home or my days at work. It changes depending on what's going on. I think these kinds of articles are supposed to give stay at home moms validation, and I appreciate the thought. But it's so over the top that no one really takes them seriously. "Of course you should be making $100,000 a year honey!" Pat, pat. Just because you are doing certain tasks around the house and for your family does not mean you are doing them on the same level and with the same outcome than if you hired a professional to do them. I would hope a pro chauffer would have better driving credentials than I do, a professional chef sure as hell can cook better than me! My day care provider has training and a license, etc.

[Loach]

I know one that is getting every penny of my salary.

[Hampshire]

Yeah, it seems they like to run that dead story every year around mother's day.

Why don't they figure out how much the working husband should be paid also for the services he provides. Year round groundskeeper, home financial specialist and accountant, wife's psychologist, household handyman that works nights and weekends (plumber, electrician, etc.), travel agent, body guard, etc. etc.

[lisacurl]

If they wanted that "study" to be more realistic, they should add up the cost of hiring a cook/housekeeper and paying for childcare/nanny/babysitter/whatever-is-appropriate-for-your-children's-ages. Because those are the two services that you'd pay for if the stay-at-home parent died... and most people wouldn't pay for a cook/housekeeper.

I agree, it's just a load of patronizing bullshit. If someone is so stupid to fail to realize how very much it would cost in actual dollars and *aggravation* to replace the labor of a stay-at-home parent and homemaker, then any number of overstatements like this study aren't going to drive the point, er, home.

[Trunk]

And they always leave off the equivalent salary a whore make for the same amount of fucking.

[SkeptiJess]

"Patronizing" is exactly the word I think of when I read those studies. Likewise those stupid "Mr. Mom" shows and songs, with the guy 'having' to do the stay-at-home wife's work for a while and dicking it up because it's all so difficult. And also the guys (and women, too) who I run into from time to time who, when finding out that I'm a housewife, say, "Oh, I could never do your job..." Patronizing.

Look. I've been a housewife for over 20 years. I raised 2 kids -- often, as a Navy wife, as the solo parent on the ground. My house was almost always tidy and organized; our bills and errands and laundry were nearly always up-to-date; our cupboards were usually stocked and dinner was generally tasty and on-time. I certainly feel that my job was valuable, and my family benefited from my ability (and willingness) to take on all those little jobs. But, please... let's keep some perspective here. It ain't exactly rocket science.

[overlyverbose]

I hate these studies, too. I once ranted that SAHMs were marginalized and I think they are - in my experience, most frequently by other women. However, there's no way to truly quantify any parent's (or partner's, for that matter) contribution to the home or society. I think we all know that good parenting is very important and it's often a thankless job.

Although I'm working full time now, I wonder how much I'm owed for my maternity leave? About $35,000 should do it. I'll take that in cash, thanks.

[Marley23]

It's a stupid story, but you have to consider it in context - there are a bunch of firms that put out studies like this. They do it for the PR value because they know news outlets will think it's cute and readers will think it's interesting, not because they think the numbers mean anything.

None of which is intended as a defense, of course. I'm just saying it's not meant to be science, it's entertainment.

[villa]

Originally Posted by Jess

"Patronizing" is exactly the word I think of when I read those studies. Likewise those stupid "Mr. Mom" shows and songs, with the guy 'having' to do the stay-at-home wife's work for a while and dicking it up because it's all so difficult. And also the guys (and women, too) who I run into from time to time who, when finding out that I'm a housewife, say, "Oh, I could never do your job..." Patronizing.

Look. I've been a housewife for over 20 years. I raised 2 kids -- often, as a Navy wife, as the solo parent on the ground. My house was almost always tidy and organized; our bills and errands and laundry were nearly always up-to-date; our cupboards were usually stocked and dinner was generally tasty and on-time. I certainly feel that my job was valuable, and my family benefited from my ability (and willingness) to take on all those little jobs. But, please... let's keep some perspective here. It ain't exactly rocket science.

I see what you mean about the patronization, but the bottom line is, I can't do that. My house is never tidy and organized. Bills, errands and laundry are rarely or never up to date. I am always running out of things I need. Dinner is usually tasty, but rarely on time, because I have to clamber my way through the bomb site of a kitchen left the previous night when I cook. That or it is oatmeal.

It isn't just the hours I work, though that contributes. Even staying at home I couldn't do it because it would drive me crazy/to the point of drink. Sportscenter or the History channel would always seem more appealing than any type of domestic work.

Why yes, now you ask, I am divorced.

[Sal Ammoniac]

tim314, you've got a point, but still -- is there anyone out there who takes that figure at face value? Most people would read that study for the fluff it is, no? Seeing that average annual wage is under $40,000 and all.

[dangermom]

Yeah, I dislike it too. I was just complaining to DangerDad last night about it. It's demeaning and patronizing, and unrealistic, and I don't think it convinces anyone to admire homemakers more. I know that my job has dignity and worth and meaning etc., and that's pretty much all I need.

Of course, I also hate Mother's Day. So probably I'm just an anti-social crank.

[corkboard]

Darn. I thought it was going to be a study on stupid housewives.

[OneCentStamp]

Originally Posted by McNew

Darn. I thought it was going to be a study on stupid housewives.

No, no. It's a study by stupid housewives. You know, where they discover that 4 out of 5 of them prefer the taste of Jif, or the scent of Pledge or whatever?

[DirkGntly]

Originally Posted by Trunk

And they always leave off the equivalent salary a whore make for the same amount of fucking.

Dude, you must not be married...it's not included because the amount of salary garnered for that amount of fucking would be...negligible. Or certainly below the IRS minimum reportable amounts...

[Telperien]

Originally Posted by DirkGntly

Dude, you must not be married...it's not included because the amount of salary garnered for that amount of fucking would be...negligible. Or certainly below the IRS minimum reportable amounts...

Damn, being married must suck.

though obviously not literally

[Yeticus Rex]

So, does that mean that househusbands would make $179,344?

Disclaimer: This is a joke.

[Cervaise]

Originally Posted by DirkGntly

Dude, you must not be married...it's not included because the amount of salary garnered for that amount of fucking would be...negligible.

At $50 per pop with a reasonably clean crackwhore, that would be... $300 per year.

[Little Bird]

Ok, I'm finding this wage for fucking thing interesting. It really should be factored into the equation, since it's part of the wifely duties.

A quick look at the price for a clean, pretty, high-class escort is about $2000 for an overnight stay. Since I stay overnight with my husband every night, I could command a $730,000 yearly salary. Of course, since I'm only willing to do about 75% of her list of talents, I'd be willing to take $547,500.

Looking further, perhaps it's not fair to charge on a yearly scale, maybe it would be better to go ala carte. Her rate for one hour is about $500. Again, she will do more than me, so I'll bargain down to $375. We have only been married about two years, so I'd say we get down about 2 times a week. Each occurrence lasts from 15 to 45 minutes depending. Her lowest increment is 1 hour, so charging for each call would be $39,000 in a year. If we allowed smaller increments of time, perhaps only $19,500.

This is no chump change! Granted, the housewives in the study may not be able to command such a high price, maybe they've had a few kids and let things get saggy, maybe they don't do oral, or like getting tied up, but I still think this should be factored into the yearly housewife's salary.

Then again, if they did have kids, I wonder how much that would cost. I need to look into prices for surrogate mothers and healthy, white babies...

[Frank]

Originally Posted by Little Bird

... since I'm only willing to do about 75% of her list of talents, ...

I'm mildly curious as to why you divided her talents into quarters rather than thirds, but perhaps I don't want to know.

[Fiveyearlurker]

Also, they mention (late) in the article that non-SAHMs should earn 86K per year for their work in the home. So, wouldn't only the marginal ~50K be attributable to the "stay at home" part of SAHM?

[Hilarity N. Suze]

Originally Posted by Little Bird

Then again, if they did have kids, I wonder how much that would cost. I need to look into prices for surrogate mothers and healthy, white babies...

For surrogate mothers, if you charged minimum wage for the first 8 hours of each day, time & a half for the second 8 hours, and double time for the third, and triple time for every hour of each weekend (since you don't get any time off of being pregnant), you'd have a salary of $74,250 for the nine months. I think there'd have to be some kind of bonus for labor & delivery, plus a two-week vacation, so it would be even more. That's STILL not enough money!

(Well, for me. Maybe for some folks it would be.)

[Shagnasty]

I am a male and a "tag team" parent. I leave for work at 7 am and arrive back home at 6 pm with a 4 year old and a 9 month old. My wife gets home anywhere between 8 pm and 1 am. I clean and tidy up the house for at least one hour every day.

How many hours do I "work" based on this? Exactly the same as my job - about 42 hours.

The rest is called adult life and it is the great equalizer. Every single person on the planet gets 168 hours a week of it. Some of it is used for sleeping and the rest of it is balanced out among purely mundane things, chores, and mostly enjoyable things. You can't pretend there are billable hours when there is nothing to bill. That is just adult life.

Many if not most couples both work and yet come home and do the chores in a fraction of the time that a dedicated housewife seems to take. Parenting is not work although sometimes it is a chore. It is parenting and the vast majority of people sign up for it voluntarilly.

I wish I could submit a bill for getting dressed, commuting, picking up my daughters, taking care of them, and then cleaning. The whole thing is retarded.

[merrily]

What also gets missed is that the housewife is doing this for herself as well, and they are her children. So half of her salary would be paid by herself; plus she is getting the food, shelter, etc, and her kids are getting the food, shelter, etc. How about her being able to pay for what she's getting? She doesn't have the cash, either. The way these studies are reported, you'd think she was owned (and owed) by her husband, and he should be paying her.

It's a choice, preferably a joint choice to divide up their responsibilities in this way. This is a team, or at least it should be.

I get the underappreciated bit -- home parents tend to take on a lot of community responsibilities as well, and anymore, even school responsibilities. They are an amazing resource for the entire society.

But silly science doesn't help anything.

[tim314]

Originally Posted by Sal Ammoniac

tim314, you've got a point, but still -- is there anyone out there who takes that figure at face value? Most people would read that study for the fluff it is, no? Seeing that average annual wage is under $40,000 and all.

I guess my real objection is the way it's reported by the media -- both the fact that such an obviously worthless study is reported at all, and that it's presented so uncritically. The promos on T.V. last night said something like "How much is Mom's work really worth? It might be more than you think. Find out at 11!" (Suffice it to say, I didn't bother tuning in at 11, but I just watched part of the video on CNN.com, and it was all some correspondent yammering on about "what a valuable commentary on our society" this is.)

But "things I hate about the media" could really be another (probably much longer) rant.

[Gatopescado]

Originally Posted by Telperien

Damn, being married must suck.

Yes. Yes it does. For this and many, many other reasons. Now learn from us and don't do it!

[CanvasShoes]

Pffft! Yup, I agree. I've done all three "women's roles". I've been a SAHM, a working mom, and now I'm a semi empty-nester with a full-time career, and a nearly grown teenager that only visits part time (though he's moving back up this summer YAAAAAY!!!).

By far, by huge leaps and bounds that can't even be counted, being a SAHM mom was the easiest, LEAST stressful woman's role I've ever had in my life. Bar NONE. Perhaps the least stressful career choice period.

This doesn't mean that I don't think they don't deserve appreciation, recognition and compensation for their roles. I'm just sick of the attitude by some, that they deserve to be raised up to sainthood or something.

[T_SQUARE]

How do they get away with counting house keeper and janitor? Sounds like double-dipping to me.

And what's with "computer operator"? I don't think using wikipedia to help a kid with a report on dinosaurs really makes one Microsoft material.

[Li'l Pluck]

Nothing to add here (except that I, too, do 's at these kinds of studies), but I did want to say that, WRT to how much a SAHM would be paid for fucking:

Trunk, DirkGntly, Telperien, Cervaise, and Little Bird? Y'all have me nearly choking on my laughter (and almost falling out of my chair) at work! Which I really needed tonight, so thanks!

And, Little Bird? I don't know why, but that bit about healthy, white babies nearly had me rolling on the floor. (Probably b/c it sounds like something that I would say, 'cept few people would laugh if I said it.)

And chin up, Cervaise--I'm not married (being gay in the United Delusions of Right-Wing Organized Religion and Other Unadulterated Bullshit pretty much takes care of that--oh, and the fact that I don't like anybody nearly that much), but if you're having sex six times per year (crackwhore or not), you're definitely doing better than I am!

Oh, and dangermom? It's so nice to know that I'm not the only sane person (you're sane, too, right?) who hates Mother's Day (or those other "boost somebody's self-esteem just because of who they are" days--ugh!). (Then again, I don't even get excited about my own birthday.) My mother, never a big one for M-Day, has always said that she doesn't want anything--which is great, 'cause I very rarely do gifts--but I'm seriously thinking of telling her that I don't know how much longer I can do the whole obligatory phone call on Mother's Day. I simply detest forced appreciation. Ugh!

[blinkingblinking]

I leave my house at 7.00am and I get home at 5.30pm. That is 10 1/2 hours. But my bastard empoyers only pay me 8 hours per day ! What is with that?

[Mighty_Girl]

It's patronizing. And stupid.

I am a semi-SAHM (I work from home and take care of my daughter, be we have a housekeeper). Physically it is the most exhausting job I ever had. Taking care of my daughter is much harder than sitting in my desk, however, I would not trade it for the highly stressful career I had. I left because at that rate I was heading for an early demise (my ex-boss had his first heart attack at 35 and was done in by the second at 45, he was otherwise healthier than I am).

I have more respect and appreciation for my husband who goes away 2 months at a time (he gets 2 mths vacation after it) to support our family. I tell him all the time, I just couldn't do what he does. He misses us terribly. The money I make is just gravy, being with my daughter is worth more than whatever I would make if I go back to work in a corporate setting.

[SkeptiJess]

Originally Posted by CanvasShoes

By far, by huge leaps and bounds that can't even be counted, being a SAHM mom was the easiest, LEAST stressful woman's role I've ever had in my life. Bar NONE. Perhaps the least stressful career choice period.

Yep. It's an excellent gig. I worked a little harder at it than some -- I've known some bloody lazy SAHMs who did almost nothing all day and expected their husbands to do housework after they got home from their paid jobs. And I worked less hard than others. The hardest working stay-at-homer I ever knew was a guy (the husband of a shipmate of my husband's) whose house was immaculate; who took care of all the household repairs, yardwork, and vehicle upkeep; who coached a team or activity for each of his 3 kids; and who held two volunteer positions (Ombudsman for our spouse's ship AND a board position on the PTA).

Originally Posted by villa

I see what you mean about the patronization, but the bottom line is, I can't do that.

That's fine. Lot's of people don't want to do it and it isn't patronizing for them (or you) to say so. What I find patronizing is when an intelligent, accomplished person talks down to me, saying that my job is so much more difficult than their piddly little position as a fighter-pilot or orthodontist or computer programmer.

As I said -- being a housewife is a pretty good gig. I enjoy it and have enjoyed it for 25 years. I take pride in being a good housewife and I truly do believe that what I do has value. My husband and children all agree with me, and are happy that I've chosen to fill this role in our family for all these years. But it is not -- looked at in a strictly practical light -- a difficult job. Any reasonably able-bodied person could take over every single one of my daily tasks with a week's training. Try that with a fighter-pilot or an orthodontist or a computer programmer.

[chela]

Originally Posted by Li'l Pluck

who hates Mother's Day (or those other "boost somebody's self-esteem just because of who they are" days--ugh!). (Then again, I don't even get excited about my own birthday.) My mother, never a big one for M-Day, has always said that she doesn't want anything--which is great, 'cause I very rarely do gifts--but I'm seriously thinking of telling her that I don't know how much longer I can do the whole obligatory phone call on Mother's Day. I simply detest forced appreciation. Ugh!

I am feeling that way too, the 45th anniversay of my birth is tomorrow, and if any one will let me I may have a nice day.

I want to boycott the card aisles. I've stopped sending to all BIL and SIl's. I forget a few siblings now and then, god will hear it if your late or forget a parents yearly. And I dont want to hear my so complain about having to buy his own cards if he wants them sent.

Right now this SAHM is on sabbatical!!! Not but

[enipla]

They forgot –
Butcher
Nurse
Personal Shopper
Makeup Artist
Entertainment Director
Interior Decorator


¹⁰

[ASAKMOTSD]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Girl

It's patronizing. And stupid.

I am a semi-SAHM (I work from home and take care of my daughter, be we have a housekeeper). Physically it is the most exhausting job I ever had. Taking care of my daughter is much harder than sitting in my desk, however, I would not trade it for the highly stressful career I had. I left because at that rate I was heading for an early demise (my ex-boss had his first heart attack at 35 and was done in by the second at 45, he was otherwise healthier than I am).

I have more respect and appreciation for my husband who goes away 2 months at a time (he gets 2 mths vacation after it) to support our family. I tell him all the time, I just couldn't do what he does. He misses us terribly. The money I make is just gravy, being with my daughter is worth more than whatever I would make if I go back to work in a corporate setting.

THANK YOU! I am so sick of hearing about all the extra work from my wife who is in a similar situation to you. She is not nearly as appreciative of the upside of her position (and the downside of mine). Do you have a clone?

[villa]

Originally Posted by Jess

That's fine. Lot's of people don't want to do it and it isn't patronizing for them (or you) to say so. What I find patronizing is when an intelligent, accomplished person talks down to me, saying that my job is so much more difficult than their piddly little position as a fighter-pilot or orthodontist or computer programmer.

As I said -- being a housewife is a pretty good gig. I enjoy it and have enjoyed it for 25 years. I take pride in being a good housewife and I truly do believe that what I do has value. My husband and children all agree with me, and are happy that I've chosen to fill this role in our family for all these years. But it is not -- looked at in a strictly practical light -- a difficult job. Any reasonably able-bodied person could take over every single one of my daily tasks with a week's training. Try that with a fighter-pilot or an orthodontist or a computer programmer.

That's fair. I find domestically organized people amazing. It isn't that I think it is necessarily that difficult, it's just a skill I don't have. I'm not likely to play in the NBA either. I am, on the other hand, pretty good at what I do.

I think I probably could do all the tasks, but I would, on the other hand, be miserable as hell doing them. Then again, spending 12 hours a day reading documents regarding a particular manufacturing process I neither understand nor care about isn't doing a lot of good for my sunny disposition.

[Philster]

I've done both. Staying at home is ten times easier than sitting here in corporate America and 100 times easier than laying bricks or tiles.

My wife and her friends in similar situations wouldn't even dare pull that underpaid/overworked crap.

Don't mind my tone, because I consider the stay-at-home job more rewarding, and a blessing if one can afford it. My wife sees it the same way. We are lucky to enjoy what am'ts to a luxury.

[Staggerlee]

Seems to me this sort of story discredits sexual equality in a similar way to radical feminists on an anti-male rant, suggesting males are obsolete and such. If these 'researchers' had been more reasonable and turned up a more realistic housewifely wage, it might have made a populist point about male/female equality. The inflated figure almost sounds like a sly misogynistic joke.

[susan_foster]

Originally Posted by OneCentStamp

No, no. It's a study by stupid housewives. You know, where they discover that 4 out of 5 of them prefer the taste of Jif, or the scent of Pledge or whatever?

Nah, you're mixing it up - it's the study where 4 out of 5 prefer the scent of Jif, and the taste of Pledge.

Susan
*mmmm....lemon-y*

[fessie]

You skeptics should see the look of terror in my husband's eye whenever I experience a minor health concern.


I think being a SAHM is the toughest job ever, at least it is for me (and I was employed for 22 years before having my twins). I'm baffled by people who can run a smooth ship (clean house + satisfied spouse + happy kids + mom who's not totally stressed) day after day. I sure can't do it.

[fessie]

It's not that any of the particular tasks is difficult, I agree with Jess on that. It's that it never.fucking.stops. NEVER.

I happened to check the clock yesterday. Four minutes. That's how much of a "break" I got. Try being interrupted every 4 minutes by someone's need or crisis (food, potty, test a limit, want some water, toy's lost, explain why, potty, kids are fighting, need a hug, want a band aid).

MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA ALL.FUCKING.DAY.LONG.

I do have easy afternoons now and then, sometimes a whole spell of them. And then someone gets sick, and the whole thing's out of whack. Up at night, whining all day. I don't know how working moms do it, I really don't, dragging themselves in after attending to children at all hours. As hard as it is being a SAHM, being a WOHM would be even worse, as far as I'm concerned.

In the 10 minutes it took me to type this, the kids came in to see me 4 times. One of them is whining at my knee right now, the other one is marching around the room blasting away at a "musical" toy (which apparently she stole from him).

It's the biggest privilege ever to have kids. We are truly, profoundly blessed.
And it just about drives me batshit.

[Elza B]

Originally Posted by fessie

I don't know how working moms do it, I really don't, dragging themselves in after attending to children at all hours. As hard as it is being a SAHM, being a WOHM would be even worse, as far as I'm concerned.

That's what pisses me off about this study. I'm a working mom. Yeah, it's tough, but it's what I signed up for when I decided to become a parent. I don't expect extra accolades or stupid studies trying to value my time for more than it's worth or a fucking medal.

Being a parent is HARD WORK no matter what you do. I don't particularly enjoy trying to squeeze in housework at night when I get home (like last night, when I got a bug up my ass to vacuum the whole house because I found several ants in the house - even though I know it happens when the weather starts to warm up every year) or squeezing in most of our family time on the weekends or not just being able to pack up my kid whenever i feel like it and go visit my parents like my SAHM friend - but I know she doesn't particularly enjoy having a husband who has to work overnights sometimes to support them, so she gets primary nighttime duties ALL THE TIME. But it's what you do. I certainly don't consider myself a better mom than anyone just because I work, and I would hope that SAHMs would have the same respect for me. I consider myself a good parent because I love my kid, and I try to do what's best for him.

All this kind of study does is cause a rift in the already-wide gap between most WOHMs and SAHMs. And it drives me fucking nuts because now we get the 'oh-so-saintly' holier-than-thou bitches coming out of both sides.

E.

[Mighty_Girl]

Originally Posted by fessie

It's not that any of the particular tasks is difficult, I agree with Jess on that. It's that it never.fucking.stops. NEVER.

I happened to check the clock yesterday. Four minutes. That's how much of a "break" I got. Try being interrupted every 4 minutes by someone's need or crisis (food, potty, test a limit, want some water, toy's lost, explain why, potty, kids are fighting, need a hug, want a band aid).

MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA ALL.FUCKING.DAY.LONG.

I do have easy afternoons now and then, sometimes a whole spell of them. And then someone gets sick, and the whole thing's out of whack. Up at night, whining all day. I don't know how working moms do it, I really don't, dragging themselves in after attending to children at all hours. As hard as it is being a SAHM, being a WOHM would be even worse, as far as I'm concerned.

In the 10 minutes it took me to type this, the kids came in to see me 4 times. One of them is whining at my knee right now, the other one is marching around the room blasting away at a "musical" toy (which apparently she stole from him).

It's the biggest privilege ever to have kids. We are truly, profoundly blessed.
And it just about drives me batshit.

THAT's exactly what I meant by physically exhausting. Sitting behind a desk been insulted by customers and pushed around by your boss drains your chi, but heck this kid can knock me out at the end of the day. But it would be much worse if I had to do it and also work (again, I work from home, at my own pace, which means staying late at night and so); I think I would have just gone crazy.

Since my husband is a semi-absent parent (very dedicated when he's here) it works great for us. The hardest part besides the physical exhaustion is sometimes the lack of stimulation to our brains, who leads to crazy people like a friend of mine who has redesigned herself into the shape of a martyr, and I am convinced is just batshit crazy. Luckily I have my job to keep the old gray cells from turning to mush.

And ASAKMOTSD, thanks. Matter of fact I have just reminded myself to tell my husband again this afternoon how much I appreciate his sacrifice. I am lucky to have found the best husband in the world... sorry about you girls.

[BMalion]

Originally Posted by Hampshire

Yeah, it seems they like to run that dead story every year around mother's day.

Why don't they figure out how much the working husband should be paid also for the services he provides. Year round groundskeeper, home financial specialist and accountant, wife's psychologist, household handyman that works nights and weekends (plumber, electrician, etc.), travel agent, body guard, etc. etc.

...Male prostitute.

[dangermom]

I don't find being a SAHM exactly easy--I'm not a good housekeeper (thus the slob reform club participation), it's difficult for me to deal with MAMA MAMA MAMA all. day. long, and there's always more to do than I can handle. I piled homeschooling on top of the job, so I picked a version that takes more time and organization and has no downtime, but it's a lot of fun and we prefer it that way (also I'm getting a good education!).

OK, few of the tasks I do require years of training (that's why I got a master's in library science, not momming), but there are a whole lot of them and I do have to know how to do each one and figure out how to get through them all. The variety is one of the perks, and the little bits of knowledge I need to handle all that variety has taken me years to accumulate--I'm still learning. And when I know how to run a house and family perfectly, I can always start on beekeeping--there's no end to what I could do.

But I have no idea how I would survive working full-time. I would probably collapse from exhaustion. When do you do the grocery shopping and housework? (As it is, I grocery shop at 9pm.) When does a WOHM ever get some time for personal interests and hobbies? I can at least carve out a little time for sewing, and can read books some of the time. When do you have relaxed family time? It seems to me that evenings and weekends would be entirely spent on errands and chores.

I like SAHMing because I can function as the anchor, so to speak. I keep track of things, and try to make a calm(ish) center for our family lives. I don't seem to have a problem with brain-mush--it's just that it's up to me to take care of my own mind. This is the most self-directed job around--I can decide what to do, how and when to do it, and arrange my life accordingly. I like the independence and the fact that we can have family time without running around all the time, and I think our lives are, overall, simpler and easier to deal with this way. I wouldn't do well with the constant full-time scheduling and running that double-income families seem to require. I guess that's also partly why I chose homeschooling--more independence, less scheduling around others' calendars.

So while I would never say that SAHMing is easy, I do think it's not as hard as being a double-income family. And I think the study is dumb, unrealistic, and patronizing--because it pats us on the head and says, "look, you do have worth!" I know perfectly well that my job is important and worthy, I don't need people telling me so, especially when they obviously don't really think it or they wouldn't have this dumb study.

[overlyverbose]

Originally Posted by dangermom

But I have no idea how I would survive working full-time. I would probably collapse from exhaustion. When do you do the grocery shopping and housework? (As it is, I grocery shop at 9pm.) When does a WOHM ever get some time for personal interests and hobbies? I can at least carve out a little time for sewing, and can read books some of the time. When do you have relaxed family time? It seems to me that evenings and weekends would be entirely spent on errands and chores.

Both situations definitely have their pros and cons. As a mom who works out of the home, scheduling is the biggest struggle. When we're at home, most of our attention is focused on our son if he's awake, then doing chores when he's asleep. I rarely ever get down time except for maybe a half hour to an hour on the weekends because my priority once our son is in bed, errands are run, chores done is hanging out with my husband. It can get frustrating since I used to be a freelance writer and would like to continue to write, but have no time to do so.

A close second difficulty for me is guilt. My mom doesn't approve of me working outside the home and my husband would prefer I didn't, too. However, since I take care of all the child-related expenses (childcare, clothing, food, doctors visits, etc.) plus a few household expenses, my husband doesn't have a good handle on how expensive it is having a kid. We could probably get by with me at home, but it would be difficult at best. Plus, I like working. At the moment, I'm looking for something as challenging, only part time, so I can spend more time at home. But for now, what I do works.

I guess my point is, depending on who you are, both situations can be equally difficult or easy. I can't imagine being a stay-at-home mom. By the time my maternity leave ended, I was all but crawling up the walls and exhausted most of the time. Either situation is what you make it.

[ASAKMOTSD]

According to this the current global market rate seems to have dropped to $50.

[dangermom]

Originally Posted by overlyverbose

I guess my point is, depending on who you are, both situations can be equally difficult or easy.

I can go with that.

I can't imagine being a stay-at-home mom. By the time my maternity leave ended, I was all but crawling up the walls and exhausted most of the time. Either situation is what you make it.

OK, I totally understand what you're saying about maternity leave, but you should know that staying at home with kids is not the same thing as having a newborn in the house. If it was, the species would be extinct! I don't know how long you had maternity leave, but it gets easier after about 3 months, and much easier after 6. Now that my youngest is 4, I can barely remember what it was like to have an infant around, and it's completely different. Also I usually get a full night's sleep these days, which is nice.

[fessie]

The other thing that's stupid about the whole "Mommy Wars" business (linked from the linked article) is that these days, I think only a miniscule subset of SAHMs don't work AT ALL. Nearly everyone's doing something to earn a few bucks and get out of the house.

The variety of part-time jobs is amazing - everything from selling hand-made items on eBay to taking on freelance computer design. There are dozens of ways of being a "Sales Consultant" (makeup, books, toys, food, lingerie, sex toys). I worked at an art show today, it was a blast & now I feel quite refreshed.

Mommies bitching about other mommies, it's just a grown-up version of Queen Bees and Wanna Bees, people wanting to gossip and carry on. Some people don't outgrow that phase, but plenty of others do.

And it isn't fair to discount the work that daddies do, either; we expect a lot more from men than our mothers did (and we're more active in our children's lives than our mothers were) (which may or may not turn out to be a good thing). I DO think it's appropriate that my husband does a few chores.

[drachillix]

Originally Posted by tim314

Please, you're getting a CEO's salary for what, running your home? That's the same as running a corporation?

From the sounds of what they are quoting $140,000 would be the price to hire professionals to serve those capacities. Most professional anythings are paid between 15-30% of the bill rate. So a professional mom should earn something betweeen $21,000-$42,000/yr running with their numbers.