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  #1  
Old 06-11-2007, 01:41 AM
Polerius Polerius is offline
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Why do masonic lodges not have any windows?

Why do masonic lodges not have any windows?
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  #2  
Old 06-11-2007, 01:56 AM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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If any sunlight gets in, the Masons will disintegrate.

They don't have any mirrors either.
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  #3  
Old 06-11-2007, 02:30 AM
Monty Monty is online now
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This lodge in Belfast clearly has windows.
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  #4  
Old 06-11-2007, 02:33 AM
Foldup Rabbit Foldup Rabbit is offline
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I was walking by my local masonic lodge yesterday and I wondered the same thing.
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  #5  
Old 06-11-2007, 02:49 AM
Doctor Who Doctor Who is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Towers
They don't have any mirrors either.
I've been in a masonic lodge where the restroom had mirrors.
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  #6  
Old 06-11-2007, 03:43 AM
Fear Itself Fear Itself is offline
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Many Masonic Lodges have windows:

Lovettsville, Virginia

Cambridge, England

Berkeley Springs, West Virginia

Chatham, Virginia
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2007, 04:12 AM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Who
I've been in a masonic lodge where the restroom had mirrors.
Heh, it was a joke - no sunlight + no mirrors = Masons are vampires.
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  #8  
Old 06-11-2007, 04:21 AM
thirdname thirdname is offline
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Because they're masons. They don't do glass. They don't know how.

Last edited by thirdname; 06-11-2007 at 04:22 AM..
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  #9  
Old 06-11-2007, 04:30 AM
Polerius Polerius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself
Many Masonic Lodges have windows:
OK, granted, but many do not :


Quote:
Originally Posted by Google
Masonic Building
Most Lodge buildings are windowless. Non-Masonic visitors are allowed inside, but no windows provides privacy for the esoteric work. ...
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread280007/pg1 - 71k - Cached - Similar pages

what I know
To the best of my knowledge, there are no windows in any Masonic Lodge room anywhere. If there were windows, there would no doubt be kids like the ones ...
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread109537/pg1 - 75k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.abovetopsecret.com ]

Oasis 11 history - Torrence
With the organization of the Masonic lodge in Belmont, the windowless building was taken over by the lodge, and after being fitted with a system of kerosene ...
www.nvmasons.org/history/torrence/torr11.html - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

Grand Masonic Lodge of Scotland - A Secret Society, Spilling a Few ...
GRAND LODGE SHOP. Secure online shopping for all things Masonic. ... Those dozen rooms have no windows. Leading the way into one of them, the Grand Master, ...
http://www.grandlodgescotland.com/in...261&Itemid=121 - 20k - Cached - Similar pages

A Monumental Tour
Allegedly, no other Masonic Lodge in the world has such depictions of the ... they have never seen the light of day as there are no windows to the Lodge. ...
http://www.srmason-sj.org/council/jo...01/travis.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

Miscellaneous
Illinoistown Lodge No. 51 F&AM & Miscellaneous Information. Masonic Logo ... Today, lodges can be on a single floor as long as the lodge room has no windows ...
www.calodges.org/no51/miscel.html - 12k - Cached - Similar pages

How many souls will our deacons lead to Hiram?
Masonic infiltrators are using the church as a cover which makes it appear that the Masonic Lodge is a Christian organization, or minimally that it is ...
www.ephesians5-11.org/dlh.htm - 24k - Cached - Similar pages
[DOC]

SPI Sponsored Events
File Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML
The facade is pierced only by the door, no windows detract from the .... back of the house was built for the Masonic Lodge which bought the house in 1921. ...
http://www.sagadahocpreservation.org...SPRING2004.DOC - Similar pages

Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > My FreeMason experience.
Anyway the Mason lodge downtown is a HUGE all concrete building. No windows on any floor but the first..and I would say there are at least 8 floors. ...
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...hp/t13497.html - 30k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages

RootsWeb: GLAMORGAN-L Re: Masonic Lodge
To answer you questions regarding the Masonic Lodge Building in Neath, ... And finally the reason why there are no windows, is because as Freemasons ...
archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GLAMORGAN/1999-07/0931678909 - 5k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages
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  #10  
Old 06-11-2007, 04:34 AM
Fear Itself Fear Itself is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polerius
OK, granted, but many do not :
OK, what have we proved with this Googlefight? Some do and some don't?
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  #11  
Old 06-11-2007, 04:41 AM
chappachula chappachula is offline
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Originally Posted by riker1384
Because they're (stone)masons. They don't do glass. They don't know how.
you win the thread !!!
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  #12  
Old 06-11-2007, 08:10 AM
CrankyAsAnOldMan CrankyAsAnOldMan is offline
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It's not just Masonic lodges. A lot of Moose Lodges, Elks Clubs, VFWs, Eagles, American Legions, etc., have very few windows as well.

In some cases, maybe that's because the establishment functions as a bar.
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  #13  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:08 AM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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I was in one last week that had a window - but very high up, and small, with a tacky cement Masonic symbol "decorating" it. Didn't really think about it at the time. The walls give them more room to hang pictures of past Masters and plaques and flags and stuff, perhaps. Looks like the masculine version of a ten year old girl's notebook up in there.
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  #14  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:15 AM
Bobotheoptimist Bobotheoptimist is offline
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To discourage eavesdroppers.
Probably not such a big problem now, but back in the day people used to care. History is important, and if lodges historically had no windows, future lodges should have no windows.

It wasn't really so long ago that, in parts of Europe, being caught at a Masonic gathering led to an uncomfortable time.
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  #15  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:20 AM
spifflog spifflog is offline
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Vast Right Wing Conspiracies going on in there.

That and if we told 'ya, we'd have to kill 'ya.
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  #16  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:37 AM
Duckster Duckster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polerius
Why do masonic lodges not have any windows?
They run linux.
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  #17  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:52 AM
BubbaDog BubbaDog is offline
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Two reasons - Secrecy and Tradition

IANAM, but members of my family have been involved in the order.

Their By-Laws state that their meetings are to be considered secret. The reason for the secrecy is based on tradition stemming from the origins of the order. They were once a (very) secret society whose members were tracked down, tortured and killed by a religious inquisition. During that time even their membership was secret. Now members of the order have no problem if you know they belong but they still maintain secrets of the order.

Why? Well one reason may be that, as a fraternal order, sharing secrets forgers a bond among members of the group.

From my experience with an affiliated organization, the secrets are neither sinister, nor enlightening.
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  #18  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:56 AM
Spoke Spoke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Towers
If any sunlight gets in, the Masons will disintegrate.

They don't have any mirrors either.
Along those lines, I always assumed it was to protect Vampire George Washington.
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  #19  
Old 06-11-2007, 11:07 AM
Bobotheoptimist Bobotheoptimist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoke-
Along those lines, I always assumed it was to protect Vampire George Washington.
SSHHH! Grand Poobah VGW needs a place to rest and now everyone is going to be storming lodges with their pitchforks and torches and I'll have to haul His Toothlessness to the Elks lodge and he'll hit the bar again, and we all know what happens when undead Founding Fathers get drunk.
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  #20  
Old 06-11-2007, 11:18 AM
UncleRojelio UncleRojelio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckster
They run linux.
Are you some kind of Macophobe?
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  #21  
Old 06-11-2007, 01:54 PM
Polerius Polerius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobotheoptimist
To discourage eavesdroppers.
Probably not such a big problem now, but back in the day people used to care. History is important, and if lodges historically had no windows, future lodges should have no windows.

After Montyand Fear Itself mentioned that some lodges do in fact have windows, I did an image search and it seems to me that a lot of the older lodges (e.g. in England) did have windows, and the ones without windows, which look like a concrete monolith, are the newer ones (mostly in the US, from what I can tell)

So, I don't think it's based on historical reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaDog
Two reasons - Secrecy and Tradition
...
Their By-Laws state that their meetings are to be considered secret. The reason for the secrecy is based on tradition stemming from the origins of the order. They were once a (very) secret society whose members were tracked down, tortured and killed by a religious inquisition. During that time even their membership was secret.
Yes, but if you want to keep even your membership secret or you'll be killed, it doesn't make much sense to build a building with no windows. That would be an obvious give-away for people who want to find you and kill you.

This fits my observation above that the older lodges did in fact have windows, while the ones that don't have windows seem to be the newer ones.

Basically, there are some masonic lodges and shriners lodges that are big windowless buildings (I used to live near one in Houston) and I always wondered why.

I understand that they have secrets they want to keep, but going windowless is a bit extreme. Many companies and organizations have secrets but I don't see many other companies or organizations going so far as to have windowless buildings.
(maybe the NSA or CIA?)
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  #22  
Old 06-11-2007, 02:51 PM
Bobotheoptimist Bobotheoptimist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polerius
After Montyand Fear Itself mentioned that some lodges do in fact have windows, I did an image search and it seems to me that a lot of the older lodges (e.g. in England) did have windows, and the ones without windows, which look like a concrete monolith, are the newer ones (mostly in the US, from what I can tell)
It's not uncommon for a lodge to meet in a room on the top floor of a building that has other uses (see The Lodge Room Over Simpkins Store) so many older lodges didn't build their meeting place. Yet when a lodge has the means to build a dedicated building, they would naturally make it as windowless as local building codes allow. Sometimes the building will have windows but the meeting takes place in an inner and windowless room, sometimes the windows on the second floor are high/curtained/small/deep/frosted, but I'd be a little surprised to be able to see into any lodge room from outside.
There is no reason to include windows in the temple itself and many to exclude them. As every lodge is a representation of an ancient and (as far as we know) windowless room they should thus be the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polerius
So, I don't think it's based on historical reasons.
What do you think it's based on?
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  #23  
Old 06-11-2007, 03:20 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoke-
Along those lines, I always assumed it was to protect Vampire George Washington.
Ahem. Adam Weishaupt.
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  #24  
Old 06-11-2007, 03:20 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Quote:
Heh, it was a joke - no sunlight + no mirrors = Masons are vampires.
But, as any regular reader of this board knows, they're guaranteed to be neither werewolves nor Mafia members.
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  #25  
Old 06-11-2007, 05:01 PM
Polerius Polerius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobotheoptimist
There is no reason to include windows in the temple itself and many to exclude them.
What are those reasons?

To keep the secret ceremonies secret? As I mentioned above, the Masons are not the only group/organization that wants to keep secrets.

Why don't we see windowless Microsoft or Google buildings? Why no windowless Christian or Islamic buildings? (AFAIK)

Quote:
As every lodge is a representation of an ancient and (as far as we know) windowless room they should thus be the same.
This is the closest to a GQ answer I have gotten so far.

So, is the answer: "Masonic lodges are windowless, when possible, because they are representations of an ancient and windowless room" ?
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  #26  
Old 06-11-2007, 05:05 PM
Spectre of Pithecanthropus Spectre of Pithecanthropus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself
As did this former lodge in my neighborhood. It's now The Village Recording Studios, and has hosted sessions for numerous top name acts.
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  #27  
Old 06-11-2007, 05:13 PM
Asimovian Asimovian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polerius
Why no windowless Christian or Islamic buildings? (AFAIK)
Which secrets are you referring to with this example? Both of these societies put out books that give a fairly detailed description of what they're about.
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  #28  
Old 06-11-2007, 05:13 PM
Bobotheoptimist Bobotheoptimist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polerius
Why don't we see windowless Microsoft or Google buildings? Why no windowless Christian or Islamic buildings? (AFAIK)
Because the ancient Googlemasons didn't meet in secret nor hold ceremonies which they didn't wish to share with the public. Christians invite random people to attend their ceremonies. Microsoft probably has a little ID badge to gain entrance to their sanctum sanctorum. I betcha most of those have at least one room that is not visible to the random Joe walking down the street, tho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polerius
So, is the answer: "Masonic lodges are windowless, when possible, because they are representations of an ancient and windowless room"?
That's one answer. If you don't like the other answers and this one makes you feel complete, go with it.
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  #29  
Old 06-11-2007, 05:38 PM
Polerius Polerius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobotheoptimist
Because the ancient Googlemasons didn't meet in secret nor hold ceremonies which they didn't wish to share with the public
Modern Googlemasons do have meetings where they discuss things they don't wish to share with the public. Yet they have no windowless buildings (AFAIK).

Quote:
Microsoft probably has a little ID badge to gain entrance to their sanctum sanctorum. I betcha most of those have at least one room that is not visible to the random Joe walking down the street, tho.
Agreed, but again, I don't think they go so far as to construct windowless buildings.
Why do the Masons feel the need to do so?

Do they feel their secrets are more "special" than other groups' secrets, and to such a degree that windowless buildings are necessary?
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  #30  
Old 06-11-2007, 09:36 PM
FordPrefect FordPrefect is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polerius
Why do masonic lodges not have any windows?
Having watched a documentary on their rituals... my guess is so nobody can make fun of them after spying through a window.
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  #31  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:09 PM
Bobotheoptimist Bobotheoptimist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polerius
Do they feel their secrets are more "special" than other groups' secrets, and to such a degree that windowless buildings are necessary?
Since you don't like any of the answers thus far, I demand a cite that Masons do in fact feel the need to construct windowless buildings to a greater extent than any other group.
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  #32  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:29 PM
AskNott AskNott is offline
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Enough nonsense! The lodge rooms with windows are in lodges that either were built for other purposes (such as stores) or those that share the building with other regular businesses. For example, the first lodge in Madison, Indiana met in the upstairs dining room of a tavern. Every mason knows how to operate shades and curtains.

There are very few real secrets about the masons' ceremonies. Any bookstore can sell you a nearly complete set, except for the grip, sign, and password of each degree. You can walk into any lodge, and they'll gladly show you a complete membership list, going back several generations.

However, tradition dictates that the Tiler (or Tyler) stands at the door to let in only masons to a meeting or ceremony. He's to keep away cowans (those who don't know the "mason's arts") and eavesdroppers. Some lodges hold outdoor lodge in the summertime, and they need some extra tilers for that. Lodge meetings were held in wartime, with improvised props and furniture. This was true in WW II, and back to the American Revolution. I suppose it happens today, but I don't know for sure.

A disclaimer: I am no longer a mason. We parted friends, though.
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  #33  
Old 06-12-2007, 04:26 AM
Gus_Handsome Gus_Handsome is offline
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The lodge I attend has windows.
For the record...
Masons arn't a secret society, they are a society with secrets. Quite a difference.
However, like the previous poster said, there really are no more secrets anymore, or nothing you can't find on the net or a book store.

Regards
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  #34  
Old 06-12-2007, 08:54 AM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordPrefect
Having watched a documentary on their rituals... my guess is so nobody can make fun of them after spying through a window.
Yeah, if their wives saw them wearing their little aprons they might expect them to help out in the kitchen.
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  #35  
Old 06-12-2007, 09:25 AM
BubbaDog BubbaDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polerius
Yes, but if you want to keep even your membership secret or you'll be killed, it doesn't make much sense to build a building with no windows.
Right, it just makes a lot of sense to hold your meetings in other buildings that naturally have few windows, (storage buildings or buildings with heavily curtained rooms ) Later on when people are no longer hunting you and your "brothers" down you might just carry on the tradition of "no outside eyes can see us" by constructing a lodge that has fewer visual access points.


I'm not sure why you are resistive to the thought of tradition being the cause of the windowless masonic building. The necessity of the secrecy in its origin has evolved into windowless buildings.

Why do people put up Christmas trees in their homes? The need to stay warm in the dead of winter got mixed in with religious beliefs so people burned a yule log. The tradition eventually evolved into the form of a Christmas tree. There is no longer a practical need or use for a Christmas tree yet it carries on as a tradition.

The Masons no longer need to hide yet, by tradition, they continue to keep their meetings secret.
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