Was wondering what folks thought about a situation my family recently encountered.
We were on vacation, and had rented a car. My wife was running an errand with the 3 kids, and had parked in a drugstore parking lot. After shopping, she and one kid (nearly 16-year-old daughter) entered the car via the 2 driver’s side doors. When they were in the car, they noted the driver in the car to their left honking at them. When they rolled down the window, the driver of that car said something along the lines of, "Your daughter just opened her door into my car."
According to my wife and daughter, neither of them believe the rear door made contact with the neighboring car. When they all got out, the other driver pointed to a ding that my family described as barely visible. AFAIK they did not check to see that it perfectly corresponded with where our car’s door would have stricken it. The other driver asked my wife for her insurance information, saying she was going to have to go to Dentbusters to have it repaired.
What would your response be at that point?
My wife refused to give any insurance or personal info. Said if the woman wanted to get my daughter’s info and seek redress from her, she was free to do so. The other woman said she wasn’t going to take down the information of a child, and started to tell my kids how unfortunate they were to have a mom who wasn’t teaching them responsibility. Said she was going to write down the licencse noumber, to which my wife said “Go ahead” and drove off. There was no damage to our rental, which we subsequently returned without event.
I thought this was an interesting situation, and wasn’t sure that there was one single correct way to handle it. Thinking it over, I don’t have any real problems with how my wife handled it.
I would have handled it differently. I would have given my insurance information in exchange for the other party’s information. I would have called my insurance company and explained my take on the issue, and let them worry about concepts like “reasonable” and “proof.” Talking about taking your daughter’s info was rude, IMHO, and could have needlessly escalated the situation. Your daughter doesn’t appear to be the insured driver of the car.
I would say yes, they are responsible. If it had been my car your daughter opened the door into and left a “barely visible” dent, I would have been furious. I probably would have called the police and given them your license plate number.
I’m very protective of my cars, and see far too many people just flinging doors open with no regard for the consequences. Your family may not have thought they hit the other car with their doors, but would the occupant of the other vehicle have any reason at all to lie? My guess is that they hit the car, and didn’t notice.
I agree with Harriet; I would have provided insurance information.
I find this part of the story awfully strange. If your wife wouldn’t give out personal information on herself, why would she offer to give out your child’s personal information? I’d be worried that I would be putting my child into a situation where they could be harassed. I mean, your wife doesn’t know anything about this person except that she’s accusing your daughter of something they don’t think she did. While this woman probably wouldn’t harass your daughter, there is certainly always that possibility, particularly if she’s really ticked off and there’s an opportunity for financial gain.
I would also have let insurance handle it. If the woman was so hot to seek damages, then having a third party work it out is far preferable to me than giving out family members’ personal information or driving off, which also seems shady to me.
Put me in with** Harriet** and Necros. I would have also exchanged insurance information. And I don’t understand why your wife would have thrown your daughter under the bus - your wife is the legal adult, she is the one responsible. I think the other lady was making a very valid point about not harassing a kid, and being nice about it.
I agree with the others. Your wife was wrong not to offer insurance information, and weirdly wrong to offer up her daughter. It is conceivable she could be arrested for leaving the scene of an accident.
And downright foolish to not open the door and see if it lined up with the ding. Really, that could have settled the whole thing right there.
Because your daughter is 16, wouldn’t your wife be responsible anyway?
Yeah, your wife was out of line. She could have certainly disputed that the dent wasn’t her fault by opening the door to see. Or she could have given the information and let her insurance company deal with it.
I just can’t imagine why a mother would toss her kid in front of the firing squad like that when ultimately it would be her responsibility anyway.
Your wife’s remarks seem a bit flippant. The prudent thing to do even if it is a minor amount of damage is to provide the insurance info. I would have checked to see if the door matched up with the scratch and gone from there. Regardless in most cases ‘Insurance follows the car.’ So as this was a rental car the insurance that applied would be what ever insurance the rental agency has. There was no need for your wife to have given your insurance information any way.
I was once in a similar situation. After I drove home from the dentist’s office, I got a call from a woman who claimed that I had dented her car with my door. She said that she had seen it happen from inside the office, but I had driven away too quickly, so she had to get my name and number from the dentist. She described her car, a restored ‘70s model with a very distinctive style and paint job that I remembered admiring in the lot. I told her that I knew she was lying, because her car had been parked adjacent to mine on the right side-- I only could have hit it with my passenger-side door, but I was at the office alone and hadn’t opened that door. She backed off. (I also never went back to that dental office-- what kind of dentist just gives out his patients’ contact info to another patient?)
So yeah, there certainly are people who will make up a story to try to intimidate a stranger into paying for damage to their car. But if there’s any doubt as to what actually happened, best to let the insurance companies sort it out.
I live in Pennsylvania. Years ago I was rear-ended at a red light. I got out, looked at my bumper, and retrieved paper/pen from my car. The other driver refused to give me his insurance info, saying only, “That’s what bumpers are for”.
I walked around to the back of his car and copied down his plate number. He drove away. I called the police and told them what happened. They arrested the guy and provided me with the information. Had he cooperated at the scene I probably would not have bothered to get the tiny dent fixed, but the guy was an asshole about it.
At least part of the reason my wife responded as she did, and the reason I don’t have any problems with her response, is that I am not at all certain that this is a matter that ought to be handled by my insurance. As a general matter, under common law a parent is not responsible for torts committed by their child. (There are legislated exceptions - for example, in IL, a parent can be liable for up to $10k for vandalism by their kid.)
So if the allegation is that my kid supposedly negligently damaged her car, then the person’s recourse is against my kid. Not my wife or me, just because we happen to have insurance. Of course, it would be somewhat more difficult for an “injured party” to file suit, obtain judgment, and collect from a minor residing in another state, than simply filing a claim with an insurance company.
That is why I asked the question about whether the insured driver was necessarily responsible for the negligent acts of a passenger. I don’t believe they are, but I am not an expert.
I’ll readily admit that I’m not a huge fan of many insurance practices. As a general practice I would be hesitant at getting my insurance company involved if not absolutely necessary, to avoid having my premiums raised as a result.
If you don’t want to deal with insurance companies, you definitely have the option of paying for repairs to the other person’s car out of your pocket.
Diving behind legal protections in a case like this just seems…scummy somehow, though. I guess if you had come back to me (putting myself in the victim’s place) with a response like “under common law a parent is not responsible for torts committed by their child” I would have totally taken up your offer to pursue your daughter in court, just to teach you and the rest of your family a lesson in responsibility. I would be really, really irked. Sorry.
Thank you. I was trying to figure out the best way to say it.
OP, it seems like you & your wife were just looking for an excuse to get out of it without actually seeing if it was YOUR error (or your daughter’s). Especially this line:
It sure seems like you’re saying “I didn’t do it, and IF my daughter did, you gotta take it up with her, except she’s got no insurance, so good luck to you.”
And IF your daughter did it this woman still gets to drive home with a scratch on her car which is only minor in your words.
I think your wife was in the wrong. While it may not be the law, the moral thing is for parents to be responsible for these thing. If your kid puts a baseball through the neighbours window, you replace the window and make the kid work it off. You don’t suggest that the home owner sue your child for it - that’s totally obnoxious. Furthermore, at least where I am (and certainly this varies by state) the registered owner of the car (or renter) is responsible for actions of their minor passengers. If you drive with your 16 year old not wearing a seatbelt, YOU get the ticket for it, not them. Ditto if you allow them to stunt while you’re driving, or whatever.
I think your wife should have checked that the dent was, in fact, caused by your daughter, and then provided insurance information. If the woman contacts the rental agency you got the car from you could wind up with a rather large bill in the mail. Certainly if it had been me driving the car and your daughter had hit my door with hers, had I received the response your wife gave, it would have been my life’s mission to get the repairs done as expensively as possible (while still being total legal) and submitting the bill to you with glee, whereas if your wife/daughter had been appologetic I probably would have just buffed the mark out myself.
Your wife was in the wrong, and your support of her, while very husbandly, is misguided.
I agree, if you wanted to argue with the victim about whether the dent actually exists, then that’s one thing. (And I have to say, if the person in the next car starts screaming that your kid dented their door, then one plausible explaination is that your kid did in fact dent their door.) But if it the damage is legit then I would hold the parent responsible as well.
A couple of months ago we had some terrible winds happening here in Southern California (serious damage to buildings, downed power lines, etc.). When I pulled into an angled parking space at my bank one afternoon, as I opened my door, a HUGE gust of wind literally flung the door out of my hand and SLAMMED it into the rear passenger door of the car next to mine. It left a 6" high by about 1/4" wide scrape of gray paint from my door, and a somewhat minor dent of those same dimensions.
I could have easily made my deposit, returned to my car and driven off and no one would’ve been the wiser. Heck, they might not have even noticed it for quite some time, seeing as how it was on the passenger side of the car. But doing so would have been disgraceful. So I pulled out one of my (newly printed – just 10 minutes earlier!) personal business cards, wrote a note explaining what happened on the back, signed and dated it, and stuffed it under their windshield wiper with my sincere apology and offer to pay for the damage.
After a rather tense week without contact, I received an email that read:
Your wife should’ve stepped up to the plate, apologized profusely and offered the woman some money to have the dent knocked out without involving insurance. If she would have done the right thing on the spot, the woman probably would’ve accepted the offer, or even let it go with the apology. Your daughter learned a terrible lesson that day. You should strive to correct that.
