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#1
10-02-1999, 02:29 PM
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Oh my, you must not have read MY sig line yet. Don't leave me out of your desperate attempts to find a PC topic that will make you look intelligent and sensitive.
Too bad it won't work. ------------------ I have as much authority as the Pope; I just don't have as many people who believe it! - George Carlin 
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#2
10-02-1999, 05:21 PM
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A young man gets a phone call from his friend, the priest. "I need you to fill in for me this weekend. I have a family emergincy."
"Me?" the young man replies. "But I'm not ordained. I'm not even Catholic!" "Don't worry about it," replies the priest. "All you have to do is take confession. There's nothing to it. Just sneak into the confession booth before services start, and when the faithful come in, just read the lines in the manual." "Manual?" "Yeah. Long ago, the Church wrote down all the lines for the fathers to use to take confession. It also has a handy Sin/Punishment index. Will ya help me?" Finally, the young man agrees. That Sunday, he sneaks into the confession booth and looks around. Sure enough, there is a large tomb labeled The Official Confession for Dummies. The first worshiper comes into the ajoining booth and says "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. I was unfaithful with my wife last Tuesday." Well, the young man looks, and sure enough, there is a listing in the index for infedelity. "Say twelve "hail Marys" and use 15 "our fathers" and go in piece my child." "Seems easy enough," the young man thinks. The rest of the moring goes by in a simular fasion:no matter what the sin, there is an answer in the index. Finally, a woman's voice comes through explaining that her sin was performing oral sex on her boyfriend. The young man's confidant manner evaporates as he realizes that there is no listing for oral sex in the index. He leans out of the booth, and spotting an alter boy, he waves him over. "Hey, kid, what do they give for a blow job?" he asks. The alter boy replies "usually a Slurpy and two comic books." ------------------ You say "cheesy" like that's a BAD thing.
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#4
10-02-1999, 08:52 PM
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I am a Catholic.
I went to Catholic school. I was married in a Catholic church. I think my sig raises a valid question. I have changed it in order not to piss any more people off. I still think it makes a good point, though, and I won't apologise for it. It does, after all, merely state a fact. Any conclusion that you draw are yours.
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#5
10-02-1999, 08:53 PM
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Oh, I'm sorry - I thought you were serious. I didn't realize you were just looking for an excuse to flirt with Wally.
Now, about my "feeble mind", let me tell you a thing or two . . . Wait a minute, lost my train of thought. What WAS I talking about, anyway? ------------------ I have as much authority as the Pope; I just don't have as many people who believe it! - George Carlin
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#6
10-02-1999, 08:58 PM
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Sealemon,
That was not funny. Well, maybe a little. Okay, so it was funny. Fuck, it was hilarious! ------------------ Millions long for immortality, yet don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.
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#7
10-02-1999, 09:03 PM
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Konrad, If my new sig fails to win your approval, please inform me.
I will change it again. I have lots. Have nice day. ------------------ Millions long for immortality, yet don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.
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#8
10-02-1999, 09:34 PM
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Hmm, I didn't realize that Konrad was in charge of sig approval.
In any case, I saw nothing in Wally's sig that could be construed as "Catholic bashing". Unless disagreeing with Catholic policy is now automatically classed as Catholic bashing. Couldn't you find something to flame about that is actually offensive? ------------------ "The secret of life is, there ain't no secret, and you don't get your money back."
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#9
10-02-1999, 09:48 PM
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As an escaped Catholic with a former nun mom and two great uncles who were priests, and 12 years of catholic schooling, I have to say the sig line in question did not offend me at all. I thought it very poignant.
I would have loved to bring that one up in religion class. Right after I asked, " When are we going to learn about other religions." The answer, "There is only one religion." Me: "Ummm, then who's fighting over in Israel?"
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#11
10-03-1999, 12:37 AM
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What's with this "According to the Pope a woman can be a saint but not a priest" sig?
There's a hell of a lot weirder ideas than that in the catholic church, so why pick on this one? Obviously the only reason is that it is not PC, so it pisses off feminists. I'm sure the Pope truly believes in his religion. So you're unhappy that he is chosing what he sees as his *duty to God* over something that is politically correct? Do you really believe that the Pope is secretly a misogynist and he is just doing this too oppress women?
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#12
10-03-1999, 02:01 PM
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Hey I didn't say I was insulted by .sig, I just thought it was dumb. Questioning the authority of the church may have been risque and avant garde back in the 30's, when CkDextHavn was young, but now it's kinda mundane.
Kat: Of course I'm in charge of .sig approval. Any .sigs not meeting my rigorous standards will be taken out and shot. Wally: Better. Although it's not as silly as one might have wanted. Try alternating between that and "My left buttock hurts." for maximum effectiveness.
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#13
10-03-1999, 06:22 PM
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Konrad says:
Quote:
Quote:
Konrad, you're a jerk. ------------------ I have as much authority as the Pope; I just don't have as many people who believe it! - George Carlin
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#15
10-04-1999, 04:56 PM
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Well, fuck, my computer is doing weird shit today. Hope this doesn't show up twice. Anyway . . .
Konrad, first you post a topic indicating that you feel someone is engaging in 'Catholic bashing' (which, BTW, occurs here - along with Mormon bashing, Jew bashing, atheist bashing - read all of the The Great God Debate threads, or pretty much anything posted by ARG220 during his heyday here). Then, you engage in a little Catholic bashing yourself: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And why are you trying to copy E1Skeptics thread complaining about 'filler' posts? Can't come up with any ideas of your own? Maybe you should leave the BBQ Pit every once in a while and read some of the other threads. Or should I send you a private message every time I make a post so you can review it and make sure it meets your criteria? I take back what I said, Konrad - you're not a jerk, you're just stupid. Sorry if you don't feel sufficiently insulted, but stupidity IS the ultimate insult in my book, and I don't use the term lightly. ------------------ The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best. - Henry Van Dyke
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#16
10-04-1999, 05:42 PM
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My first response to the OP was "YAWN." BFD, who cares, it's just a signature. But I'm in a pissy mood today.
Konrad, what exactly was your problem with the sig? I've read your posts, and they seem specious at best, trollish and idiotic at worst. It is true that the RCC allows women to be sainted but not ordained as priests. That's amusing. Wally wasn't "picking on" the Church, he was pointing out an inconsistency. It might be part and parcel of the tenets of the faith, but so fucking what? It's still pretty goddamn ridiculous. Get over yourself, pal. -andros- ------------------ "Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!" Exceptions? None! -Doc Bronner
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#17
10-04-1999, 06:42 PM
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BenDover said,
Quote:
An amateur Canadian teenager with more pimples than beard in his face that most probably inherited an inborn disgust with anti-catholic remarks from his polish ancesters (note: the Pope IS polish), and "challenges" visitors to his webpage to "(s)end (their) poorly written blatherings" without even proofreading his own blatantly ignorant posts, copying ME? Ha! Don't piss me off, Ben. ------------------ Men will cease to commit atrocities only when they cease to believe absurdities. -Voltaire
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#18
10-04-1999, 11:16 PM
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Sorry, E1, no slur intended in your direction at all. I guess its not very complimentary to be imitated by the feeble-minded.
------------------ The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best. - Henry Van Dyke
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#19
10-05-1999, 12:02 AM
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I'm sorry, but maybe I just can't bring myself to have a whole lot of respect for an organization that was responsible for the Crusades and the Inquisition, that held back science and technology for centuries because it didn't like the implications, that couldn't even admit that the planet actually orbits the sun until this century, that was established under the fascist regimes of Mussolini and Franco, that caused untold suffering in the New World with its religious zeal and hatred for the "heathens", that attempted to impose its own monolithic version of the truth upon an entire continent, and succeeded for almost a millennium. And as a woman, a feminist, and a non-heterosexual, I say that the treatment of those three groups by this organization throughout history, and today, leave much to be desired. That a woman can be a saint, and not a priest, as the offending sig line points out, is just icing on the cake.
There, Konrad, you now have something worthwhile to respond to. Enjoy.
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#20
10-05-1999, 12:32 AM
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Sealemon88 wrote:
Quote:
------------------ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.
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#21
10-05-1999, 12:39 AM
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Bendover: Wouldn't it kind of defeat the purpose to troll in the BBQ pit? What the hell is wrong with you? You get angry because I complain about someone's sig in the Pit? What the hell is the pit for?
You're right. From now on I'll come here to start topics about things I like in the SDMB. I'll start right now. I like your posts. They make great filler. You don't make or rebutt arguments, so no one has to waste time responding to you. Your insults aren't insulting (You're a jerk, Konrad), so no one feels bad. And there is no humour content in them so all in all it makes a nice spacing in between the relevants posts. Wally: You seem like a complacent person with limited ideas for .sigs.
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#22
10-05-1999, 12:43 AM
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Konrad:
Given your hypersensitive whining, perhaps we all would be better off if you settled your own conflicts before vomiting them all over other people. Your snivelling posts on bigotry betray you. Connect the dots, putz. By your own words, you aren't a martyr, you're a passive aggressive dolt. In the lines from a great chldren's book: Nobody loves me. Everybody hates me. I'm going to sit in the garden and eat worms. So gorge on worms, already. Have a maggot while you're at it; they're GREAT with dip. But quit with the pissy little games where your hate is justified but you're the poor, poor maligned innocent. If you didn't want a fight, discussion and/or in-your-face challenge, why did you choose The Pit for you puling meanderings? You ain't the victim, pal, you're the predator. But you seem eager to take disagreement as further "proof" as your victimhood. Of course you'd probably read persecution into a menu from the Omlette Shoppe, while sancimoniously finding justification for your own hate. Konrad, you're a troll. Veb (still your enemy, and even prouder of it)
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#23
10-05-1999, 01:43 AM
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Konrad,
Nothing. Just wanted you to see my new sig. ------------------ The Catholic Church allows only the Rhythm Method as a form of birth control. Evidently, a woman may not use chemistry and physics. She is permitted, however, to resort to mathematics.
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#25
10-05-1999, 02:09 AM
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neuro-trash grrrrl: Hold back science? The RCC practically invented science with its establishment of the modern university. The rest of your tirade is as equally ignorant and, without the historical context of what sort of abuses Pagans, Muslims, 'men of science', and atheistic regimes have committed, it is completely myopic.
Now, while n-t grrrl clearly took the opportunity to bash, IMHO, the original .sig in question was not a bash, but an honest criticism put in a witty framework. Not all criticisms are bashes. Now, having said that, I must say the brand new .sig concerning the 'Rhythm Method' is a bash. It's been over three decades since the RCC promoted the Rhythm Method. It now promotes Natural Family Planning, which does not use the technique of counting days to determine ovulation, but rather uses the technique of monitoring bodily symptoms to determine ovulation. NFP, btw, is almost universally recommended by doctors when a couple wants to get pregnant. It's a mystery why docs hardly mention it to couples who don't want to get pregnant and who don't want to mess around with hormonal medication or interfering devices. Peace.
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#27
10-05-1999, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Take it from an atheist, NTG, if you're gonna argue, at least be in possession of some facts before you do so. Those two things above are such egregious misstatements that to state them immediately discounts one from being taken at all seriously.
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#28
10-05-1999, 03:36 PM
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Nickrz,
I was not sure who said it or the exact wording. I couldn't find it in my book of quotes. It was meant to be a one time sig, never to be used again. Especially, after Moriah's correction.
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#29
10-05-1999, 07:54 PM
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well I don't like long, whiny responses so I just skimmed your posts.
E1Skeptic: ancesters? And you're telling me to proofread. bla bla bla catholic church committed crimes bla bla bla I'm a lesbian bla bla bla you're only defending them cause you're Polish heh, lesbians are cool.
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#30
10-05-1999, 08:04 PM
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Oh, leave it alone, Konrad.
You've made your point. You don't have one. Try something else. How about screen names? You might have some fun with that. ------------------ The big toe is a device for finding furniture in the dark.
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#31
10-05-1999, 08:13 PM
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Oh, what's the point, you weren't even paying attention. And here I was thinking that you might actually be able to manage an intelligent debate. You're a troll, Konrad. Fuck off and die.
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#32
10-05-1999, 08:46 PM
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neuro-trash grrl: I didn't respond to your posts because:
1. It's completely irrelevant to my point, I was never trying to say the church is good/bad/whatever. 2. What you said wasn't news to me. Far from it. I'm young, but that doesn't mean I stupid or uneducated. 3. I agree with you. But mostly point 1.
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#33
10-05-1999, 09:33 PM
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No, Konrad, you don't have a point, at least not one that's clearly articulated and intelligently defended.
What you DO have is a really bad case of passive-aggressive posing. You post vague, sniping little swipes and then wrap yourself in a precious little mantle of self righteousness. "Oh, but that wasn't what I meant AT ALL! Everyone else wrong, wrong, evil and wrong".  Drums your little heels in a tantrum...)In the body of human discourse, you're a spastic colon. You don't need, or add, fiber, you just produce stench, loud noises and disgust in others. You leave others only with a sense of wonder that your limit your contributions to rude blasts of methane. So knock off the coy, precious, twee little "gotcha!" tactics. If you want to argue, this is probably the best place for it. But, mangling the metapohor, either shit or get out of the pit. Risking moderator wrath, Veb
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#34
10-05-1999, 10:57 PM
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neuro-trash grrrl:
Quote:
I'm not sure why you threw Darwin into your statement since the RCC has been fairly open to the idea of evolution and many evolutionary scholars are Catholic. The RCC has done many horrible things. You mentioned several of them in your first post. However, this is the Straight Dope and we prefer to adhere to facts whenever possible. For a view a bit outside the popular notion, you might want to check out these sites: http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodic...leoAffair.html http://www.catholic.com/answers/tracts/galileo.htm ------------------ Tom~
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#35
10-06-1999, 12:05 AM
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What, have we all forgotten Copernicus and Galileo, to say nothing of Darwin? Galileo, if you will recall, was harshly punished for his assertion that the earth moved around the sun. Of course, the Church did admit to its mistake. When did they do this? 1992, when a commission appointed by Pope John Paul II determined that the previous stance was based on an excessively narrow interpretation of the Bible. That means that heliocentrism has been a part of official Church doctrine for only seven years. So, yes, the Catholic Church has cleaned up its act in recent years, but... 1992? Come on...
The Catholic Church invented science? As I recall, the scientific method as we know it was the brainchild of a monk named Roger Bacon, who insisted that one's perceptions of the natural world should be influenced by observation, and thus contradicted the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas and the rest of the Catholic mainstream who believed that faith, and faith alone was the key. This (the former) was not a viewpoint that was popular at the time, and very little in the way of real science was done in Europe during the time that the Church held sway, what little there was being more along the lines of innovation in agricultural techniques. Charlemagne may have encouraged literacy among his subjects, but such things were the exception, not the rule. And as for the Muslims, pagans, and men of science, yes, there have been abuses. Such abuses usually occur when someone decides that their worldview is the only correct one, as the Church has for centuries. During the Dark Ages of Europe, many advances in the fields of medicine, astronomy, optics, and mathematics were being made in the Islamic world. It wasn't until some overzealous clerics started seeing a threat to their faith in scientific inquiry, that science became a naughty word. Abuses by "men of science" are usually by men so caught up in their science that it becomes a religion to them, and other things, like ethics and the sanctity of human life, fall by the wayside. Zealotry in any form is a terrible thing, and should be avoided. Myopic? It doesn't get much more myopic than that. In short, perhaps I should not be picking on the Catholic Church alone (which may or may not have been the point of the OP). And, as I admitted earlier, the Church is at least making an attempt to rehabilitate itself. The fact remains, that the Church has done much to cause human suffering in the past centuries. My original post still stands.
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#36
10-06-1999, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
{quote]I was never trying to say the church is good/bad/whatever.[/quote] So what were you trying to say? First you imply that you think the sig is Catholic bashing, then you say you just thought it was dumb. Why call the thread "Catholic bashing" then? Again, did you even have a point? You claim to have one, but no one has been able to find any sign of one in your postings on this thread. Out with it, man! ------------------ "The secret of life is, there ain't no secret, and you don't get your money back."
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#37
10-06-1999, 12:38 AM
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Whoops! My mistake.
That reference to St. Thomas Aquinas above should have been St. Augustine. Aquinas was a contemporary of Bacon (probably where I got mixed up), and of a similar philosophical bent. In fact, Aquinas had to hold back more extreme colleagues who wanted to declare Aristotle a heretic. So I will give you this: The Chrch probably did make possible the scientific advances that it would later be trying to suppress. A belief in the usefulness of reason only goes so far, it seems. And, again, my original posting still stands.
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#38
10-06-1999, 04:39 PM
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tomndebb wrote:
Quote:
------------------ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.
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#39
10-06-1999, 04:40 PM
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Darn it, that last link should've been to www.josephnewman.com , not www.josephnewman.org.
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#40
10-06-1999, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
I'm not a catholic but I don't think you have to agree with someone to defend them from stupid arguments (see the "I hate bigots" thread). Even if someone said "Hitler had a beard", it doesn't damn well matter how bad Hitler was, it still doesn't change the fact that he didn't have a beard.
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#41
10-06-1999, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Hitler DID have a beard - he just kept it shaved off like a lot of other men. I guess you don't know about that shaving stuff yet. ------------------ The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best. - Henry Van Dyke
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#42
10-06-1999, 11:08 PM
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Once again, Konrad. I'll do it more slowly this time.
The sig was TRUE. It was IRONIC. It was AMUSING. You are behaving like a FUCKING TROLL. To wit: you deliberately used inflammatory language and a very insulting manner toward Wally. Your prerogative. It's the pit. Go for it. But you're still going to look like a FUCKING TROLL. Talk to me again when you learn some critical thinking, son. xxoo -andros- ------------------ "Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!" Exceptions? None! -Doc Bronner
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#43
10-06-1999, 11:34 PM
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Okay, be honest, be brutal (like you wouldn't, right?)...is it me or is Konrad as annoying as fiberglass insluation in your underwear?
True, this isn't Great Debates, but there are still some generally accepted guidelines for discourse. I try to be tolerant, respectful and thoughtful, but Konrad just minces and evades, snipes and provokes. Am I missing something crucial or does Konrad have a brain-pan full of Farina, a heart filled with bile and the social finesse of a remora? Communication doesn't seem to be working. Can anyone make sense of him, or should he just be slowly trepanned with a lid of rusty tuna fish can? Hitler's beard!? Nah, NO one coudl be THAT dim and willfully fatuous.... Veb
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#44
10-06-1999, 11:55 PM
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Veb,
Konrad's words are completely devoid of content. Don't waste your time looking for meaning. You won't find any. It's gibberish. Ignore him. He might go away. We've given him far too much attention already. This is probably the only way he can get somebody to talk to him.
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#45
10-07-1999, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Additionally, was this thread your first post ever on this board and was it posted without lurking? If not, did you really think Wally would not have been taken to task already if the Catholics on this MB found the sig to be "insulting" or "Catholic bashing"? ------------------ "The secret of life is, there ain't no secret, and you don't get your money back."
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#46
10-07-1999, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Here, let me explain this to you a little more clearly, since obviously the concept of comparison is over your head. Criticizing the pope for not allowing women priests has as much to do with the church's character as saying Hitler had a beard has to do with Hitler's character. In other words, it doesn't have anything to do with it. Second of all, it's pretty sad how you people take this so seriously. As if by complaining about the .sig I am insulting you personally. You'd think I had coveted your ass or something. Now isn't it funny how you guys complain that I make personal attacks and don't have any real arguments when that's all YOU do? Out of the last 5 responses to me, all 5 have been pure insults. What a bunch of hypocrites. At least I try to explain myself instead of just insulting. Who's acting childish here? Oooh, Hitler had a beard but he shaved it. Gee, that's not a sniping, annoying nit-pick, that's grade A logic. Yeah, you guys are really great debaters. Oh yeah, and no matter how much you call someone a troll it doesn't make you any more right. Say it as many times as you want, it's not going to suddenly make me say "Oh, you're right. I'm a troll. Ignore all my arguments. Your abundant usage of the word 'troll' has clearly shown me why I'm wrong."
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#47
10-07-1999, 10:26 AM
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For those who've not had the pleasure of reading some of Konrad's posts in other threads, I've provided some links:
www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000198.html www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000048.html www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000138.html Konrad has a history of not quite getting the point of what other people are saying or asking, and usually becomes belligerent and insulting when someone disagrees with him. Just thought I'd point out that this thread is typical, not a momentary aberration of an otherwise intelligent, well-mannered poster. Konrad, there's not much point in anyone trying to explain to you where you've gone wrong, because you just don't understand. I don't know if its a lack of reading comprehension skills or some mental dysfunction, but all efforts seem to be nothing but wasted bandwidth. Why waste time arguing with a brick wall? Several posters have, indeed, had their behavior pointed out to them as 'trollish' and have mended their ways. Some just go away, but some undergo an 'attitude adjustment' and learn to act in a more reasonable and mature manner. Unfortunately, you're not one of them. Why don't you go over to the snopes Urban Legends board and irritate them for awhile? ------------------ The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best. - Henry Van Dyke
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#48
10-07-1999, 10:27 AM
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Okay, time for a Catholic to weigh in. I thought the .sig was hilarious! And it's TRUE, for crying out loud!
Konrad, the pope not allowing women priests has EVERYTHING to do with the Church's character. If the Pope woke up tomorrow and decided "You know, I was wrong. Time to have women priests," we would! But he won't, because the church will not change, and he is a product of that. The only place the Church's character does not follow the pope's character is MAYBE for American Catholics, who are generally more liberal than the rest of the world. Just my opinion, since you claimed to want to see a real response....
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#49
10-07-1999, 10:56 AM
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Sigh . . .
I still don't understand what the problem was. I don't understand the OP. Konrad, to me it appeared like a personal attack on Wally. If it wasn't, great, but you were the one who started the insulting language from your first post. Next, I'm sorry you feel so hurt by our responses. But if you'll re-read my last post, I never insulted you personally. I insulted your behavior and your (lack of)logic. If I wanted to insult you personally, you'd know it, I assure you. If you don't want to be called a troll, maybe you should figure out the reasons for it and make an effort to change your posts. You might even try to incorporate some critical thinking. -andros- ------------------ "Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!" Exceptions? None! -Doc Bronner
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#50
10-07-1999, 11:29 AM
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Perhaps I was the only one to see the original .sig that started this whole thread as (intentionally?) ambiguous??
I read "According to the Pope, a woman can be a saint, but not a priest" as meaning either: (as everyone is assuming) "...though a woman can be a saint, she cannot be a priest" OR (my interp.) "...although a woman can be a saint, a priest cannot" As such, it struck me as a bit of tongue-in-cheek satire that did not offend me. I haven't tried it on my priest though. Maybe I will, and get her interpretation. 
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