So am I wuss or what?

[Dob]

So I hate flying. Haven't flown in over 10yrs. I stopped flying right around the time I developed panic/anxiety attacks. While they have bothered me over the years, I have managed to overcome them and lead a somewhat normal life. No medications, no more therapy etc...

But the one thing I haven't been able to do is fly. I have tried, and cancelled dozens of times. In that 10yrs I have since gotten married, and now have a 2yr old girl. My flying issue has impacted all of our travel plans from our honeymoon to summer vacations. My wife used to live overseas and has travelled extensively in her life.

Until we had our child, if a trip came up she would simply go (at my strongest urgings) with a friend or family member. Now with a child, it's a whole different story.

Aside from the panic I feel with the thought of flying, I'm about 100% convinced the next plane I get on will be falling out of the sky in a large fireball. Of course, none of the flights I cancelled ever crashed, but still my thoughts persist.

So now we have a trip to Miami scheduled for this Sunday. I'm both excited and scared to hell about this. On the one hand, I would love to get away and have a good time (never been to Miami), but on the other hand... it's a freakin plane taking us there and back. Assuming I can get on the plane, I know that while I'm down there I will just be worrying about the trip back. And that will impact me, and those around me and probably make for a worse trip for all of us.

My wife told me that if I dont wanna fly, I can take a train down. Long trip that way, but I think I could handle that. But the thought of my wife and child getting on plane without me, is just not something I can envision. God forbid something did happen on that plane, and I was on a train instead!! (yes, im a bit of a wack job)

At the same time getting on the plane with them and having something bad happens keep runing through my head and makes the whole thing even harder!!

So, if I take a train while my family flies... how much of a wuss am I? I mean, im a 35yr old male, great job, good life, perfect wife and baby Shouldn't that be enough to get me on that stupid plane? If it's not, does it make me less of a "man"?

I need the brutal honesty that only this place can give me!

[EmAnJ]

I'm scared of flying too.

Have you talked to a therapist about how to handle this?

I did a lot or research on aircraft accidents and probability of being in one, and what my chances of dying are. Sounds morbid, but it REALLY helped me.

[brewha]

Yes, you're a wuss. But, you already knew that. I'm sure people have told you that your fears are irrational and that your more likely to die in a car accident on your way home from work than get in an airline crash.

I don't see how a stranger's opinon will change your fears about flying. But, if it can I'm happy to give it.

Brewha - who soloed 12 yrs ago and has no fears of flying.

[silenus]

Originally Posted by Dob

So, if I take a train while my family flies... how much of a wuss am I? I mean, im a 35yr old male, great job, good life, perfect wife and baby Shouldn't that be enough to get me on that stupid plane? If it's not, does it make me less of a "man"?

Irrational fears are irrational fears. You can't really reason with them. Even the fact that you are in greater danger on the train than your family is on the plane won't help. Buy the plane tickets for the wife and kidlet, get yourself onto the train, and try to relax.

Of course, the whole family could ride the train. Catch the scenery, relax without having to deal with TSA assholes, all that.


--silenus, who learned to fly when he was 7, and who has a wife with more frequent flyer miles than Condi Rice.

[Asimovian]

Eh. I had very serious fear of flying issues for a while, and I wussed out on a flight home from a vacation once, taking the train instead, because I couldn't bear the thought of flying. It sucks.

Having said that, I don't think you're doing the right thing, here. It's not so much that I blame you for wanting to bail and take the train, but nothing in your OP suggests that you're doing anything to overcome this fear. And this, despite your acknowledgment of how much this is impacting your life and the lives of those around you.

I don't know that there's anything you can do to conquer that fear before Sunday, so silenus' advice in this case may be best. But you need to seriously make an effort to deal with the problem, for your own sake and for the sake of your family.

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

Have you guys tried drinking heavily? You can do that for free on international flights.

[Shagnasty]

I am not scared of flying in the least but I have a phobia that is even more stupid than than so I can relate. I once had a panic attack while in line for one of the world's biggest roll-coasters. I didn't know I was scared of roller-coasters, there I was. I told myself that my only responsibility was to get myself in the seat and it would be over in due time whether good or bad. It turned out to be great and I am not scared of any roller-coasters now.

You might be able to use that same mental trick as well. All you have to do is get yourself in your seat and that is it. You don't need to fly the plane or entertain the other passengers. Just get in your seat. You might still have some severe anxiety but if you just commit yourself to dealing with it as it happens, you will get from point A to Miami on a plane. I know it would be terrible to have a full-blown panic attack as soon as you board but those don't last forever.

You are probably way more scared of the idea of flying than flying itself. It is very likely that repeat exposures to flying will help you get over your phobia or at least make it more tolerable. You owe it to your wife and child to do that. The U.S. is too big for you to miss out on distant opportunities because you are crippled by a fear of flying.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Dob

So, if I take a train while my family flies... how much of a wuss am I? I mean, im a 35yr old male, great job, good life, perfect wife and baby Shouldn't that be enough to get me on that stupid plane? If it's not, does it make me less of a "man"?

I need the brutal honesty that only this place can give me!

You're not a wuss. I refuse to fly, for somewhat different reasons. And frankly, I never need to. But fear of flying is very real. It's not a question of just "sucking it up," or "being a man."

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by Throatwarbler Mangrove

Have you guys tried drinking heavily? You can do that for free on international flights.

That is the strategy that many people use. Have you noticed how many bars there are in the terminals? Lots of people have the same fear and airports are one of the few places where you can see large numbers of professional type people pounding hard alcohol and beer at 9:00 am.

You could also contact your primary care doctor and ask for a short-term prescription of Xanax. You could also take OTC Dramamine so that you are so sleepy that you can't stay awake enough to be scared.

[Dob]

It's not so much that I blame you for wanting to bail and take the train, but nothing in your OP suggests that you're doing anything to overcome this fear. And this, despite your acknowledgment of how much this is impacting your life and the lives of those around you.

I have seen a therapist about this before, on different occasions, but it hasn't really helped me. I know the only way to help myself is just to do the damn thing and be done with it. It's a shame that knowing a thing, and doing a thing, are two seperate things!

[jjimm]

I've become scared of flying in the last few years, and have also suffered panic attacks in the past. But, I still fly, whenever I have to.

You say you've learned to counter your attacks in normal life: well that's what I do when I'm in the plane. Same techniques, whatever you do; for me it's acknowledging that it's an attack, breathing deeply, relaxing my muscles, distracting myself with sudoku or whatever. It's not easy, but it's doable.

I have also found that two or three beers before flying have helped immensely if I've been really worried. Not enough to get drunk, but enough to take the edge off the worry. Good luck!

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

That is the strategy that many people use. Have you noticed how many bars there are in the terminals? Lots of people have the same fear and airports are one of the few places where you can see large numbers of professional type people pounding hard alcohol and beer at 9:00 am.

Not really, I don't buy things at airports, they're usually overpriced.

I'm not scared of flying either, I just like free booze.

[NailBunny]

I've had a pretty hefty fear of flying for the last six or so years, and only recently overcame it enough to get back on a plane for a flight to L.A., and then more recently another flight to Las Vegas.

So, I'm of two minds about this. My first instinct is to tell you that if you think it's going to hinder your ability to enjoy your vacation and make you an unpleasant person to be around, then by god you're an adult and you can take the freakin' train if you want to. Do it, and don't beat yourself up about it.

OTOH, having experienced this myself, it really is a great and liberating feeling to overcome your fear and take that flight, and, for me at least, went a long way toward getting over the fear altogether (not that I think I am, but I'm a lot closer!). I've been on two flights in the last year, when previously I had nightmares just about getting on a plane. Not flying, not crashing...just sitting on a plane waiting for it to take off. Overcoming that fear feels great, and if you think it's going to haunt you that you took the train while your wife and child flew, then this may also hinder your vacation enjoyment and make you an unpleasant person to be around. I'm just sayin'.

Only you know if you can handle it or not, but I think if you give yourself the chance you'll be pleasantly surprised with how you do.

[Drunky Smurf]

I vote train.

I say screw wether you are scared or not of flying and take the train. I've flown mutliple times and I love staring out of the window and just getting lost in my thoughts but it never lasts long enough even when I went to Hawaii. It was a long damn flight but when we were landing I was wishing we still had a couple of more hours to go.

I've been thinking on going on a train trip just to go on a train trip for a couple of years now. I want to go on a multi-day trip but for that I would only want to go first class and I need to save some more for that to happen.

Plus that is more time you can spend with your family if you can convince them to ride the train with you.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

It turned out to be great and I am not scared of any roller-coasters now.

.

This is what I thought until I went on "New York New York" in Vegas.

Now I'm scared of rollercoasters again.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

To the OP, have you ever had therapy to specifically address the FOF issue? It's not something I have experience with, but I understand there are lots of programs out there to help people overcome it.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Spectre of Pithecanthropus

To the OP, have you ever had therapy to specifically address the FOF issue? It's not something I have experience with, but I understand there are lots of programs out there to help people overcome it.

Post # 10.

[Zebra]

You really should have addressed your phobia before you bought plane tickets.

[Asimovian]

Originally Posted by Dob

I have seen a therapist about this before, on different occasions, but it hasn't really helped me. I know the only way to help myself is just to do the damn thing and be done with it. It's a shame that knowing a thing, and doing a thing, are two seperate things!

By the way, just so you don't think I am coming down hard on you, you can read this thread of mine that explains what I did to overcome my fear (thanks to my wife) and also links to my original thread about my fear of flying, where lots of Dopers contributed helpful info.

I wish you the best with whatever you decide, and I hope you're able to conquer that fear. I know I'm probably one of the lucky ones, but it can be done!

[Shakes]

Not to lay any guilt trips on you Dob but speaking as a father myself, this is one of those times that you need to set an example for your daughter.

Well, OK she's two; you might be able to get away with it THIS time but you know that day will come when you DO need to set that example.

Might as well get the pratice in now.

Good luck.

[Glazer]

Just remember, the airline industry has a perfect record. Every plane that goes up has come back down.

[Darryl Lict]

Originally Posted by jjimm

I've become scared of flying in the last few years, and have also suffered panic attacks in the past. But, I still fly, whenever I have to.

Aren't you the guy who's traveled all over the world? Man, that would suck to become afraid of flying. I love traveling and would be crushed if I became fearful of flying.

[jackdavinci]

If you are just scared enough to be uncomfortable, it might be worth it to just take the plunge. But if you are scared enough to get physically ill, or to have a panic attack I would avoid it. The airlines are not as tolerable about people freaking out as they used to be...

[Caractacus Pott]

Originally Posted by Darryl Lict

Aren't you the guy who's traveled all over the world? Man, that would suck to become afraid of flying. I love traveling and would be crushed if I became fearful of flying.

Add me to that list, too. Running out of pages in my passport, Platinum Delta Skymiles member, absolutely hate to fly. Tomorrow, I'm scheduled to be in the air for over 20 hours. Yeah, I'm happy about that...NOT! If I could take a train from here to there, I'd be on it in a heartbeat. Here's something that's helped me: talk to someone during the flight. I usually fly alone, so while on the ground, I ask a neighbor if we could chat during the flight and explain why. That distraction helped me get through a number of flights. Your wife and daughter can probably help with this.

Recently, I've been flying on planes full of non-English speakers, so if the ride looks bumpy, I do the benadryl* thing to force a restful state. It doesn't put me fully to sleep but in the grogginess I don't care as much. Check with your doctor to see if that's an option for you.


*Benadryl and Dramamine are cousins . I use it because it's cheaper, but, thanks to this thread, I found out more reasons. Ignorance fought and subdued!

[Soapbox Monkey]

Originally Posted by brewha

Yes, you're a wuss. But, you already knew that. I'm sure people have told you that your fears are irrational and that your more likely to die in a car accident on your way home from work than get in an airline crash.

This is a completely useless argument against someone who is afraid of flying.

If you get into a car accident, your chances of surviving are 95% because of all the modern safety features that are packed into cars.

If your plane comes falling out of the sky, your chances of surviving are 0.0001%.

So yes, while statistically deaths from car accidents are greater than deaths from plane crashes, the survivability of a plane crash is relatively non-existent.

[BoBettie]

When you talked to a doctor about this, were they able to offer you some Valium or something to help with the anxiety?

[Dob]

So yes, while statistically deaths from car accidents are greater than deaths from plane crashes, the survivability of a plane crash is relatively non-existent.

haha... Are you trying to freak me out??

When you talked to a doctor about this, were they able to offer you some Valium or something to help with the anxiety?

yes, I have xanax. But I have yet to put it to the test so to speak. I hear it works well, and I will have it with me.

[Asimovian]

Originally Posted by Dob

yes, I have xanax. But I have yet to put it to the test so to speak. I hear it works well, and I will have it with me.

A good friend of mine who has a severe fear of flying uses Xanax. It still doesn't make flying pleasant, but it does get her through it. Just make sure you aren't planning to drive once you land, no matter how well you're feeling.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by Soapbox Monkey

So yes, while statistically deaths from car accidents are greater than deaths from plane crashes, the survivability of a plane crash is relatively non-existent.

That is absolutely not true and a terrible piece of misinformation especially in this thread. Most plane crashes are survivable and most people who have been in a plane crash survive. We even have plane crash survivors on this board.

[Asimovian]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

That is absolutely not true and a terrible piece of misinformation especially in this thread. Most plane crashes are survivable and most people who have been in a plane crash survive. We even have plane crash survivors on this board.

I ask this just out of curiousity. Is your statement true of commercial plane crashes, or just of plane crashes as a whole?

[SailedTheOceanBlue]

Originally Posted by SHAKES

Not to lay any guilt trips on you Dob but speaking as a father myself, this is one of those times that you need to set an example for your daughter.

Well, OK she's two; you might be able to get away with it THIS time but you know that day will come when you DO need to set that example.

I agree with this.

"I don't wanna! I'm scared."
"Sweetie, you need to get your vaccination, I know you're scared of needles but this is for the best. You have to do this."
"Why do I havta? You're scared of planes and nobody makes you get on one."

Maybe not a perfect exapmle but something will occur and your child will burn you and make you feel like a wuss. Do you want to be a wuss in the eyes of your daughter? I'd guess not. So go man up Nancy.

(I say that with love and compassion, coming from a woman who is still paying for telling her children she's scared of bugs. Try telling your kids that screaming bloody murder is an inappropriate response to a tiny spider when their retort is, "Well YOU'RE scared of bugs too!")

[Sal Ammoniac]

I'm trying to make up my mind whether having to wrangle a two-year-old on this flight is a good thing or a bad thing for you. On the negative side, it'll stress you out something fierce. On the plus side, it'll be a hell of a distraction. But it would seem to contraindicate getting blotto, wouldn't it?

[Soapbox Monkey]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

That is absolutely not true and a terrible piece of misinformation especially in this thread. Most plane crashes are survivable and most people who have been in a plane crash survive. We even have plane crash survivors on this board.

Ok, define "plane crash" please. Do you mean plane crash as in, one of the wheels didn't come down so the landing was a little rough? Or perhaps the cabin tilted while they were going down the runway to take off and the wing was damaged?

Because when I say plane crash, I (and I can assume that anyone else with a fear of flying) mean a plane falling out of the sky from 30000+ feet, or a midair collision. I wasn't aware we had survivors of such incidents on these board.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by Soapbox Monkey

Ok, define "plane crash" please. Do you mean plane crash as in, one of the wheels didn't come down so the landing was a little rough? Or perhaps the cabin tilted while they were going down the runway to take off and the wing was damaged?

Because when I say plane crash, I (and I can assume that anyone else with a fear of flying) mean a plane falling out of the sky from 30000+ feet, or a midair collision. I wasn't aware we had survivors of such incidents on these board.

If you define "plane crash" to mean a commercial airliner that breaks up at 30,000 feet and plunges into the North Atlantic 500 miles from land killing everyone aboard then yes, there will be few survivors. The reality is different from that. Most people survive plane crashes of all types, even the "real", commercial ones.

"Over the past 22 years, the National Transportation Safety Board investigated 26 major commercial airline accidents involving nearly 28,00 people.

The study found that more than half the passengers survived.

NTSB investigators credit training exercises such as the one in Oklahoma City, with the relatively high rate of survival."

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/trav...44/detail.html

[Dob]

Okay, so I took several pieces of advice here, and I went on an Adventure Flight this past Saturday. Took a Cesna 172 up for an hour, was a bit freaked for some of it... But I did it! woot me!

On for my big finale I took a flight from Dulles to Ft. Lauderdale on Monday!! double woot me! It was probably one of the harder things I had to do in my life so far (and I did have a mini-meltdown), but I did it. after 10yrs I finally got on the damn plane.

'course, now I have to fly freakin back on Friday! But hey, I faced the fear and did it. Hopefully I can do it again, or else I will be train boy! Either way, thanks for the advice, encouragement, and "encouragement" from you all.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by Dob

Okay, so I took several pieces of advice here, and I went on an Adventure Flight this past Saturday. Took a Cesna 172 up for an hour, was a bit freaked for some of it... But I did it! woot me!

On for my big finale I took a flight from Dulles to Ft. Lauderdale on Monday!! double woot me! It was probably one of the harder things I had to do in my life so far (and I did have a mini-meltdown), but I did it. after 10yrs I finally got on the damn plane.

'course, now I have to fly freakin back on Friday! But hey, I faced the fear and did it. Hopefully I can do it again, or else I will be train boy! Either way, thanks for the advice, encouragement, and "encouragement" from you all.

Congratulations! Exposure is a big part of overcoming these things for many people with phobias. Don't let yourself go too long without flying again and you should be well on your way to beating it altogether.

[ZipperJJ]

Dude that's so awesome! And you took care of it so quickly!!!

Go Dob!

[sandra_nz]

You rock!!!

[jjimm]

Dob, you fucking rule.

Originally Posted by Darryl Lict

Aren't you the guy who's traveled all over the world? Man, that would suck to become afraid of flying. I love traveling and would be crushed if I became fearful of flying.

Yes I've been all over. The fear of flying sucks. But I gotta do it for the rewards, you know what I mean? Being foreign places is more important than temporary fear. Over the Himalayas on China Airlines in the worst turbulence ever? Check. That was what set it off. Terrifying, but damn, it was worth it to be in Tibet! I have gotten on maybe 40+ more flights since, too, and was shitting myself during each one. But it's got to be done.

May I reiterate, Dob, that you fucking rule!

[appleciders]

Good for you! Just remember, keep an eye on the flight attendants. As long as they're calm, you should be too.

[jjimm]

Originally Posted by appleciders

Good for you! Just remember, keep an eye on the flight attendants. As long as they're calm, you should be too.

Better not tell him about this then!