Breaking News: Bonds Indicted on Perjury, Obstruction

[Contrapuntal]

Not much to the story yet. How ugly could this get?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/15....ap/index.html

[silenus]

Let me be the first to say:



HA-ha!

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Did his old trainer, Greg Anderson, finally break down?

You've gotta think they have some good evidence against Bonds, that's for sure.

[Contrapuntal]

More detail.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by silenus

Let me be the first to say:



HA-ha!

Well since you took the HA-ha! let me add this:

*********** <- Asterisks to be placed next to Mr. Bond's name by Major League Baseball in future printings of the record books. (More available upon request)

[What Exit?]

Good catch, I had just posted this in both active baseball threads.

I would like to third the honorable Mr. Silenus' statement.

HA-ha!

[Rysto]

Why the hell couldn't they have nailed him before he set the record?

[jtgain]

Bonds is innocent until proven guilty.

So let's have a fair trial, followed by a fair hanging and get baseball back on solid ground.

Selig should order Roger Maris' record restored immediately.

I'm ecstatic that Bonds' career is over, and after his conviction no HOF. Baseball is a joke and has betrayed my love for it in my childhood..

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Originally Posted by Rysto

Why the hell couldn't they have nailed him before he set the record?

Baseball OWES Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire. It'll be interesting to ee how this all plays out.

[asterion]

I saw on the news ticker on MSNBC just now "President Bush Disappointed About Barry Bonds" or something along those lines (this was before I just looked up the story) and that got a big "WTF?" from me. I thought there was another Presidential appointment that had been shot down by the Senate or something.

[DSYoungEsq]

Originally Posted by asterion

I saw on the news ticker on MSNBC just now "President Bush Disappointed About Barry Bonds" or something along those lines (this was before I just looked up the story) and that got a big "WTF?" from me. I thought there was another Presidential appointment that had been shot down by the Senate or something.

Drug Czar.









What!?

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Least Original User Name Ever

Baseball OWES Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire. It'll be interesting to ee how this all plays out.

What do they owe Bonds? I can see the Sosa & McGwire part*. They had there nifty little race when baseball needed to recover from the strike. Nothing Bonds did was he pumped up helped baseball at all.

Jim




* I don't think baseball actually owes those two cheats anything either, but at least I understand the argument.

[silenus]

"Now batting clean-up for the San Quentin Felons.....Barry Bonds. Pitcher Sirhan Sirhan checks the sign....shakes off Manson......Manson carves a cross into his forehead and gives the sign again.....Sirhan nods....here's the pitch......Ouch!. Just a bit inside. It hit Barry right in the......well, right where his balls used to be, before all the steroids."

[Frostillicus]

Suck it, Barry.

[denquixote]

Wow!!! I always was under the impression that I hated Barry Bonds as much as the next guy, but I was clearly wrong.

I do still hate Pete Rose as much as anyone though right?

[Marley23]

I usually feel at least some pity for people on the wrong end of a pile-on, but... meh. I have to say, though - it took the government a lot of time and money to accuse him of doing something almost everybody already believes he did.

[Fish]

You know, if I were a suspicious bastard — and I'm a member of the Straight Dope, so that almost goes without saying — I'd question the timing.

1. Bonds' contract expired — this indictment therefore hurts only Bonds himself.

2. The World Series is over. This indictment doesn't affect ticket sales for the season, or upstage baseball's premiere event (like Scott Boras did, cough cough).

3. Bonds has already broken the all-time record, which means the Giants have already milked him for as many extra ticket sales as they were likely to get.

Coincidence?

[don't ask]

I gather that this Bonds chap is a baseballist of the battering variety who has achieved great feats but in doing so has somehow garnered more than his share of enmity. Could this simply be jealousy created by team rivalry? Or is he really such a receptacle of scum?

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Fish

You know, if I were a suspicious bastard — and I'm a member of the Straight Dope, so that almost goes without saying — I'd question the timing.

1. Bonds' contract expired — this indictment therefore hurts only Bonds himself.

2. The World Series is over. This indictment doesn't affect ticket sales for the season, or upstage baseball's premiere event (like Scott Boras did, cough cough).

3. Bonds has already broken the all-time record, which means the Giants have already milked him for as many extra ticket sales as they were likely to get.

Coincidence?

I disagree, if there was a conspiracy at all, this indictment would have happened before Bonds got the record. Baseball fandom and especially the Commissioner did not want Bonds to break the record.

Originally Posted by don't ask

I gather that this Bonds chap is a baseballist of the battering variety who has achieved great feats but in doing so has somehow garnered more than his share of enmity. Could this simply be jealousy created by team rivalry? Or is he really such a receptacle of scum?

He broke the biggest record in baseball. He did it by increasing his size and strength by a huge amount late in his career. He rather blatantly used steroids and possibly other products to cheat. Steroids use is generally considered the most egregious form for cheating. Additionally, he has a really bad relation with the press. Finally he perjured himself.

Jim

[Fiveyearlurker]

Originally Posted by jtgain

I'm ecstatic that Bonds' career is over, and after his conviction no HOF. Baseball is a joke and has betrayed my love for it in my childhood..

I loathe Bonds (check my posting record on his threads!). But, nomatter what happens, I'm guessing he still ends up in the Hall of Fame, and I think he should.

[Nars Glinley]

Originally Posted by don't ask

Could this simply be jealousy created by team rivalry? Or is he really such a receptacle of scum?

Nope. He's a scum receptacle. And he's one that has (apparently) cheated in order to break the homerun record. If this were a case of petty jealousy, every team in the league would have been fighting to sign him when he became a free agent but most teams' interest was tepid at best. Right now, nobody wants to touch him but I'm sure that somebody probably will.

Here's another vote for HA-HA.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker

I loathe Bonds (check my posting record on his threads!). But, nomatter what happens, I'm guessing he still ends up in the Hall of Fame, and I think he should.

Gammons was talking today that they have found a non-baseball drug test that Bonds took that shows he used illegal steroids. If this turns out to be true, Bonds might not make the HoF.

[Wee Bairn]

I think Bonds is a douche and am glad his smug ass will be getting his comeuppance, but don't agree that if found guilty that he alone should have his accomplishments purged or asterisked, when there are tons more players who won't have a smiliar fate just because the feds didn't choose to go after them as well.

[silenus]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Gammons was talking today that they have found a non-baseball drug test that Bonds took that shows he used illegal steroids. If this turns out to be true, Bonds might not make the HoF.

I will be satisfied if everywhere his name appears, for the rest of Time, there is an asterisk next to it. Let him be enshrined as a Cheater forever, right down there with the Black Sox.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Wee Bairn

I think Bonds is a douche and am glad his smug ass will be getting his comeuppance, but don't agree that if found guilty that he alone should have his accomplishments purged or asterisked, when there are tons more players who won't have a smiliar fate just because the feds didn't choose to go after them as well.

Don't worry, they won't purge his records and the only *s on him will be the one that denotes that many of the stats in this era are inflated by steroid use and the ones that us fans will of course place next to his numbers mentally.

Jim

[OneCentStamp]

Originally Posted by silenus

I will be satisfied if everywhere his name appears, for the rest of Time, there is an asterisk next to it. Let him be enshrined as a Cheater forever, right down there with the Black Sox.

Are the Black Sox enshrined? I know that Shoeless Joe Jackson certainly isn't.

[silenus]

Enshrined in the Annals of Cheating, not the HOF. Sorry for the confusion..

[Philster]

Bonds is possibly the biggest jackass for this reason:

Before blowing up like an inflatable Hulk doll, he was already on track to be accepted by many as the greatest baseball player of our lifetime, and maybe all time. Think about that!

The press and other players were able to look beyond his horse-shit personality and the complete lack of charm and charisma and still applaud his abilities... and many would speak openly about his stance as arguably the greatest of all time. This was when he was regular Barry, full of talent and probably no drugs.

I loathe him for being such a self-involved ass that being the best player in MLB (current and maybe of all time) still wasn't enough. THE FUC*ING STONES ON THIS GUY! GET THE F--- out of here! Can you believe the gall?

If Joe Shleblotnick does the juice to up his power and make a name for himself and earn a few million for a few years, you can almost understand the motivation and justification that went on in the guy's head. I mean, people take steroids for nothing, so you can see the attraction to a guy who can pull in 20 million and have a career or sorts. It ain't right, but I can see the temptation.

Bonds? Seriously - the mutha-fu*king cajones by this guy.

Go rot, Barry.

[silenus]

Barry ain't got cajones anymore, remember? One of the prices you pay for doing 'roids. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

I disagree, if there was a conspiracy at all, this indictment would have happened before Bonds got the record. Baseball fandom and especially the Commissioner did not want Bonds to break the record.

I can't go along with that — first and foremost, baseball wanted the money his home-run chase was bringing in. Baseball knows, as with Pete Rose, it can always jigger the record books later.

[Knorf]

Allow to add my own additional: HA-ha!

I hate cheaters in sports. Well, anywhere really, but sports especially!

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

What do they owe Bonds? I can see the Sosa & McGwire part*. They had there nifty little race when baseball needed to recover from the strike. Nothing Bonds did was he pumped up helped baseball at all.

Jim




* I don't think baseball actually owes those two cheats anything either, but at least I understand the argument.

Bonds is the downside of the same trend. If Bonds goes to court, if there's testimony, if there's evidence, it could get very nasty and many scabs could get ripped open. It's possible that no team would be left untouched. It could end up like even more of a McCarthy witchhunt than it is now.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Originally Posted by don't ask

I gather that this Bonds chap is a baseballist of the battering variety who has achieved great feats but in doing so has somehow garnered more than his share of enmity. Could this simply be jealousy created by team rivalry? Or is he really such a receptacle of scum?

It also depends who you ask. Bonds has done almost superhuman things in the sport, but with some kind of outside help. Where does the "outside help" of dietary supplements and weightlifting supplements end and steroids begin? Note that steroids weren't illegal in baseball (but were and still are illegal according to the government) when he "supposedly" took them. Is it wrong to take a performance enhancing substance that's banned by the government but not by the sport you play? When they do outlaw it and if it has been proven that you took them when it was still legal, what is the consequence?


Also, he's a complete dick and he's been a complete asshole to the press and virtually everyone else within his influence.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Least Original User Name Ever

Bonds is the downside of the same trend. If Bonds goes to court, if there's testimony, if there's evidence, it could get very nasty and many scabs could get ripped open. It's possible that no team would be left untouched. It could end up like even more of a McCarthy witchhunt than it is now.

Fine, lets air it all out, do it quick and move on. The game won't be hurt too much by this. It will recover quick. Instead we have these repetitive small wounds that keep piercing it.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Least Original User Name Ever

Is it wrong to take a performance enhancing substance that's banned by the government but not by the sport you play? When they do outlaw it and if it has been proven that you took them when it was still legal, what is the consequence?

Doesn't your rather inflammatory "banned by the government" really mean "illegal?" If so, how can you speculate that someone might have taken them "when it was still legal"?

At any rate, Bonds has not been charged with taking steroids, and in fact had immunity from such charges. He is being charged with perjury and obstruction of justice.

[Philster]

Steroids have been legally considered 'controlled substances' since the early 1990's (maybe earlier). In other words, cocaine, meth, steroids, crack cocaine, heroine....they are on the list of 'controlled substances'. Baseball surely doesn't need to explain in the Official Rules that crack is illegal or 'against the rules', per se, does it?

Does baseball need to explain that homicide or car jacking is illegal?

Well, then they don't need to draft rules about steroids, meth or crack either.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Philster

Does baseball need to explain that homicide or car jacking is illegal?

Well, then they don't need to draft rules about steroids, meth or crack either.

No, but baseball does need to address the penalty assessed by baseball, over and above what the law provides, for such a violation.

[Nars Glinley]

Originally Posted by Contrapuntal

No, but baseball does need to address the penalty assessed by baseball, over and above what the law provides, for such a violation.

Why? If I embezzle from my company, I can reasonably expect to be fired and prosecuted even though it isn't spelled out in writing anywhere.

[Enginerd]

What kind of fly by night operation doesn't have procedures in place for handling money?

In any case, embezzlement is an offense against your company - your behavior hurts them directly. But you wouldn't expect to be fired for getting a speeding ticket off hours, would you?

[Nars Glinley]

Originally Posted by Enginerd

What kind of fly by night operation doesn't have procedures in place for handling money?

In any case, embezzlement is an offense against your company - your behavior hurts them directly. But you wouldn't expect to be fired for getting a speeding ticket off hours, would you?

Bonds' behavior hurts baseball and therefore hurts the Giants.

[Philster]

They can do whatever they want, as long as the penalties handed out are consistent and do not pick on any individual and/or group.

Further, the issue at hand is not about what MLB will do with Bonds. The issue at hand is what the Feds are going to do with him.

Bonds is due some fines/penalties and hand slapping from MLB. Big whoop.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by KRM

Why? If I embezzle from my company, I can reasonably expect to be fired and prosecuted even though it isn't spelled out in writing anywhere.

The legal system punishes violations of law. Baseball punishes violations of baseball rules. Why would you think that they intersect?

[Nars Glinley]

Originally Posted by Contrapuntal

The legal system punishes violations of law. Baseball punishes violations of baseball rules. Why would you think that they intersect?

I don't. Bonds has been charged with perjury about steroid use. If he is convicted then he is guilty of (although not criminally charged with) having used steroids. That is cheating and baseball needs to punish him for it.

Or maybe I don't understand what you're saying.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by KRM

I don't. Bonds has been charged with perjury about steroid use. If he is convicted then he is guilty of (although not criminally charged with) having used steroids. That is cheating and baseball needs to punish him for it.

I'm not sure it was cheating when the use in question happened. But yes, if he breaks a baseball rule, he needs to be punished.

Or maybe I don't understand what you're saying.

The poster I responded to said that since steroids are illegal, baseball does not need to draft rules covering steroid use. My point is that the interests of baseball and the interests of society do not necessarily intersect. Gambling is legal in many venues; should baseball let the legislature draft the baseball rules on gambling? Why should the punishment given by society necessarily be sufficient to the needs of baseball?