Human instincts..........

[Ruggles]

Great bar debate over the weekend: Do humans have instincts?

[Coldfire]

Yes. Most of them are illegal in many countries.

[Turpentine]

No, I don't think so.

An instinct is a complex behavior pattern, like hibernation or migration or spinning a web.

Humans do some things automatically, but they are called reflexes- because it's a single stimulus-response action, two steps.

Babies have most of the relfexes,like sucking and grasping and morrow (sp) reflex and a bunch of others, but adults still have a couple as well.

The complexity of most instincts would be too great for a human not to question it.

[Feynn]

Humans are pretty well taught everything they know by their parents or other adults. Without that input a child would most likely perish.

We can see instincts when we look at babies...

Babies cling to the people holding them, if you pull them away they will thrust their arms out and attempt to grasp something. This is an inborn response to a specific stimuli so by definition, this is an instinct.

Babies respond to expressions on people's faces and seem to know what those expressions mean.

Once we pass babyhood any instincts are overidden by what we are taught.

Put us butt naked out in the bush and most of us would be toast in no time...

[Phobos]

Welcome to the SDMB! (BTW, this thread will probably be moved to the Great Debates forum)

I say yes.

(1) Newborn babies automatically suckle when placed at the breast (although some practice is needed for them to be effective at it).

(2) Humans seem to be hard-wired to try to survive and reproduce.

(3) There is some evidence that, regardless of culture, there are some basic traits that people consider to be attractive in the opposite sex.

(4) Humans evolved from instinctual animals and some remnants of this would not be surprising.


So, overall, I think humans have an underlying instinct that can be usurped by our overlying cognative mind.

I would also pose the question "what is instinct?" If it's a behavioral response to an environmental stimulus based on biochemistry, then there are other examples that could be examined.

Why are certain smells arousing?
Why do we love someone (often not a volitional choice)?
Why do most people act like their group/culture is better than every other group/culture?
Humans can be very territorial - why?
Humans tend to need contact with other humans - why?

[ticker]

Of course we have instincts. What do you think sexual urges are all about?

[Doubleclick]

Originally posted by ticker
Of course we have instincts. What do you think sexual urges are all about?

But one thing that defines an "Instinct" is that it is impulsive. Yes we have sexual urges, but they can be controlled.

If an animal is hungry, it eats. If it is tired, it sleeps.

We have the same triats, but if I'm hungary, I can hold off untill I get home...or if I'm tired, I can hold off until the end of a movie.

If it can be controlled, then it does not quallify as an instinct.

[Coldfire]

If you're Hungary, then I'm Poland!

[Doubleclick]

Originally posted by Coldfire
If you're Hungary, then I'm Poland!

Funny guy :P

[ticker]

Originally posted by Doubleclick

If it can be controlled, then it does not quallify as an instinct.

I disagree. The urge is instinct - precocious children have been known to have sex without knowing what it was. Sure you can exercise control over urges but can you control having them?

[Doubleclick]

Originally posted by Doubleclick

But one thing that defines an "Instinct" is that it is impulsive. Yes we have sexual urges, but they can be controlled.

If an animal is hungry, it eats. If it is tired, it sleeps.

We have the same triats, but if I'm hungary, I can hold off untill I get home...or if I'm tired, I can hold off until the end of a movie.

If it can be controlled, then it does not quallify as an instinct.

Someone here in my office brought up a good point...there is a fine line between instinct and the resulting behaviour.

He said,"Sure, we can hold off from eating if we are HUNGRY (Happy Coldfire? ) but we are still hungry and hunger is the instinct."

I'm not completely convinced by this statement, but I thought I'd bring it up...it gets the gears moving...

[Doubleclick]

Originally posted by ticker

I disagree. The urge is instinct - precocious children have been known to have sex without knowing what it was. Sure you can exercise control over urges but can you control having them?

Good point...that's what my office buddy said.

I guess I might be fair to say that humand have instincts, but the instincts in adult humans are greatly suppressed.

Sound like a fair comment?

[DrMatrix]

To deny humans have instincts is to deny the fact that we are animals. Of course we have instincts. All animals have instincts.

People just don't like to think of themselves as animals.

[ticker]

Originally posted by Doubleclick

Good point...that's what my office buddy said.

I guess I might be fair to say that humand have instincts, but the instincts in adult humans are greatly suppressed.

Sound like a fair comment?

works for me

[DrMatrix]

Originally posted by Doubleclick
I guess I might be fair to say that humand have instincts, but the instincts in adult humans are greatly suppressed.

Sound like a fair comment?

No, I'd say some people would rather deny their existance, but I wouldn't say they are greatly suppressed; I wouldn't even say they are suppressed, just that some people deny their existance.

[Doubleclick]

Originally posted by DrMatrix

No, I'd say some people would rather deny their existance, but I wouldn't say they are greatly suppressed; I wouldn't even say they are suppressed, just that some people deny their existance.

Good point...I guess it comes down to the definition...once the definition has been established, and it can be shown that humans do still have instincts, the book is basicly closed on the subject.

But if after this, people still deny it...they these people fit into the same catagory as Creationists.

[Doubleclick]

...damn...forgot something...

But given all this...the one major difference between humans and other animals is that humans are not guided by instinct alone as other animals are. Humans are self-conscious. Humans have the ability to realize, "I am 'I', and not anyone else. I am myself, not my environment. I am separate from all other things. I can influence or control these other things and bend them to my own uses, and so control my environment. Thus I can shape my destiny to suit myself."

Humans alone have this power of self-conscious free will. We have the power of self-directed choice, (Even though there are those that need to exercise this a bit more.) and are not totaly goverened by instinct.

[Jingo]

Ruggles:

Great bar debate over the weekend: Do humans have instincts?

Was this a long debate? Just how drunk were you? Just kidding.
OF COURSE humans have instincts, silly person. All critters have ‘em—they keep us alive, healthy, and breeding. Or, they try to anyway…we override them quite often. Even if you refuse to acknowledge any evolutionary process, you must admit that humans are hard-wired for certain behaviors.

One may respond, “Well, duh. Eating when you’re hungry isn’t really an instinct…it keeps you alive at a very fundamental level.” “Ah,” I reply, “but WHAT TO EAT?” You can’t survive by just munching on clods of dirt. We have a neat system which, in general, works to make us hungry not just for food items, but the PROPER food items…granted, it’s a bit out-of-date, but I’ll expound upon this later if need be. The basic hunger urge may not be considered instinct, but the item chosen as food is. Just as migratory birds know to head where there is more food for the winter, but the direction to fly is instinctive.

Think of instinct as the “how-to” of basic survival. We know that we must mate…but with whom? We know we must eat…but what? Sure, this is a really simplified version of how instincts work, mostly because a pure instinct is difficult to point out—because we work to counter them all the time.

Desmond Morris explored this wonderfully in The Human Animal. For example, the things we instinctively do to attract a mate, and have NO IDEA that we’re doing them consciously, are really amazing. If you’re waffling about the idea that humans have instincts, then chances are that you’re unsure about the definition of instinct.

Thank you, and Goodnight.

[DrMatrix]

Doubleclick

Have you ever heard of Koko the ape(who communicates via sign language) or Sarah the chimp (who communicates via symbols)? They seem self-aware to me.

Originally posted by Doubleclick
If an animal is hungry, it eats. If it is tired, it sleeps.

This reminds me of a story about a Zen master who is asked what is the secret to enlightenment. IIRC, his answer is "When you are hungry, eat; when you are tired, sleep."

[casdave]

If you know how to read body language there is a great deal of information to be gleaned.

Why do some people rub their noses or ears when put under certain types of stress, if they were conscious they would not do it since it is often an indicator of lying.

When you talk with a woman with whom you have a mutual attraction have you not noticed that many if not most will gently sway toward you, it is as if it is a message that is being passed without words or conscious thought.This will usually bring out a warmer response from the man but he will not know why.
Why are some women such good flirts yet others seem to be trying too hard, actually this probably applies to men far more.I would guess that body language can only be carried out without conscious effort and imitating it tends to look insincere and transparent, and boy, women are masters at picking it up - unless they fall head over heels in love and fail to see the warning sign.

Con men know exactly which buttons to press, car salesmen and many others go on courses to learn how to exploit these little foibles we have.
We like to think we are civilised and rational but think like this, how often have you met someone for the first time and thought to yourself that something was not quite right but you can't pin it down ?

[robinh]

To add to the evidence that we do indeed have strong instincts:

Originally posted by Phobos


(1) Newborn babies automatically suckle when placed at the breast (although some practice is needed for them to be effective at it).
Not only will they suckle automatically, if you put a newborn baby on its mother's stomach, it will (assuming an unmedicated birth and a healthy infant) crawl up to her chest and root around until it finds a nipple. Also, the milk that the mother produces is specific to her infant. In areas where particular diseases are prevelant it will contain more immunities to those diseases. The milk produced for a premature infant is different than that produced for one at full term and different still than that produced for a toddler. The cries of a premature infant are higher pitched and designed to create an instant response from adults.


(3) There is some evidence that, regardless of culture, there are some basic traits that people consider to be attractive in the opposite sex. I saw a program on The Discovery Channel (or perhaps TLC?) that gave evidence for a very specific waist-to-hip measurement ratio in women that is considered almost universally attractive across cultures and generations. They pointed out that Marilyn Monroe and Kate Moss, women with very different figures who were considered the "ideal" by many people, have the same waist-to-hip ratio.

I think we are far more guided by instincts than we realize.

[peace]

Ruggles, as usual, you have tons of unrelated crap here, but no clear responses. A question which starts with "Do..." MSHOULD be answere with YES or NO. My answer is YES.
But first of all, when you leave that bar, go to a library and look up "instinct", "reflex" and read curcived (related) articles.
A few examples here, for starters:
Reflexes: Swalloing, blinking, gag, erection.
Instincts: parental (procreation), play, herd, ego.
R. cannot be [normally] suppressed. I. can be more or less expressed.

[Doubleclick]

[quote]Originally posted by DrMatrix
[b]Doubleclick

Have you ever heard of Koko the ape(who communicates via sign language) or Sarah the chimp (who communicates via symbols)? They seem self-aware to me.

Originally posted by

Yes, but that shows that they are intelligent. (Obviously more inteligent that the average 'ape'.) And they would not have learned that on their own...there was human intervention. But we are digressing.

What I was getting at there is, we as humans have instincts like all animals, but it is our hightened intelligents that makes us different from all animals. And it is this difference from other animals that allows us to control impulsive behaviour.

The definition of an instict is:
1.) An inborn pattern of behavior that is characteristic of a species and is often a response to specific environmental stimuli: the spawning instinct in salmon; altruistic instincts in social animals.
2.)A powerful motivation or impulse.
3.)An innate capability or aptitude: an instinct for tact and diplomacy.

So, with that, I believe that it is fair to say we have them, but we can control them to an extent.

[Ruggles]

As defined by Websters Dictionary:

a largely inheritable and unalterable tendency of an organism to make a complex and specific response to environmental stimuli without involving reason b : behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level.

Therefore, in order for humans to have an instinct the behavior must exist in ALL humans.

For the record, I say no, we don't. I had a college professor that first sold me on the belief, I wish I could remember his name so I could e-mail him and find out his source.

[Doubleclick]

Originally posted by Ruggles
As defined by Websters Dictionary:

a largely inheritable and unalterable tendency of an organism to make a complex and specific response to environmental stimuli without involving reason b : behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level.

Therefore, in order for humans to have an instinct the behavior must exist in ALL humans.

For the record, I say no, we don't. I had a college professor that first sold me on the belief, I wish I could remember his name so I could e-mail him and find out his source.

I'm in the same boat...I had a prof that sold me on the idea that we don't...but I am now having second thoughts about the whole thing.

I NEED RE-EDUCATION!!!!

[peace]

Ruggles, why "therefore"?
As I said, I. can be more or less expressed. An individual can survive if h/er/is paternal instict is suppressed, our species cannot if it's supressed in all.
Have you ever loved someone? Your parents, perhaps?
Why did you go to college? To meet girls? Or to learn something? Both reasons would be instinctive. Humans instinctively want to socialize and to learn.

[Brainz]

Instincts have been replaced (or refined) by intelligence
through evoluition. The only true instincts left in the human being is to eat and drink and reproduce. Nature has provided those species of lower intelligence with instinct to sustain life.Such as the birds go south and the bears hibernate.
The only thing I can't figure out is why humans (aand not a complaint) enjoy oral sex so much, could it be instinctive?

[peace]

Mr(s). Brainz,
<<<<<<<<<<<<<The only thing I can't figure out is why humans (aand not a complaint) enjoy oral sex so much, could it be instinctive?>>>>>>>>>
You just ruined your own premise: they enjoy it because pleasure seeking behavior (and danger aversion) is INSTINCTIVE.
Eating and drinking are not instincts, they are necessities. Contrary to your deep believes, you won't die without sex, even without oral sex. Try to live without food or water.
Evolutionary intelligence developped later. It did not cancel instincts. It did not refine instincts, either. Actually, your housing (shelter) instibct became stronger since your income ( fueled by your intelligence, right?)allowed you to afford a better house. It is superimposed on instincts. Example: a woman instinctively wants a child. An animal female acts on her instinct immediately, at the first heat. An intelligent woman understands that she is too young now, has no husband, money, etc. and decides to postpone it.

[Brainz]

Your not only full of gibberish, just look around and tell me that there is intelligence in women. How many single mothers are we supporting in our country. That is instinct to reproduce.(When in heat as you say) So you are saying if the humans backbone would bend enough we could satisfy our desires. I think not.It is the instinct to reproduce. Necessities are NOT innerdriven, they support their subject. iefor women) Toilet paper, make up,rear view mirror, Tampons,etc. Put a goat out in the pasture, no one says hey goat try that water its good...The goat instenctively smells and goes to the water to quinch her thirst. Gee women on the golf course, women in politics, Now they are trying to explain the difference in instinct and intelligence. Why can't makeup at home instead of the signal light in the morning? Tackle that!

[dylan_73]

Originally posted by Brainz
Your not only full of gibberish, just look around and tell me that there is intelligence in women. How many single mothers are we supporting in our country. That is instinct to reproduce.

Well, how many of those single mothers were in long term relationships before they had the child, and then ended up splitting from their partner?

By your reasoning, it would be foolish for any woman to ever have a baby, because there's always some risk that her circumstances might change for the worst....

Of course, maybe the US is different, and all the single mothers there are just girls who jumped into bed with the first guy they could find, but somehow I doubt that's the case.

[AWB]

Study Reveals: Babies are Stupid

[manhattan]

Originally posted by Brainz
Your not only full of gibberish...

There are literally dozens of things wrong with your post here (and those elsewhere, FWIIW), but let me address just one. We do not insult each other in General Questions. Stop.

[barbitu8]

All animals have instinct. Period and double period. Man is an animal. Therefore, man has instinct. Survival of the species is the greatest instinct of any animal, and that means sex. In fact, you will find throughout the animal kingdom that many animals will die for the greater good of the species. They don't do that with aforethought, but it is "just" instinct.

[Phobos]

Originally posted by Doubleclick
But given all this...the one major difference between humans and other animals is that humans are not guided by instinct alone as other animals are. Humans are self-conscious. Humans have the ability to realize, "I am 'I', and not anyone else. I am myself, not my environment. I am separate from all other things. I can influence or control these other things and bend them to my own uses, and so control my environment. Thus I can shape my destiny to suit myself."

Humans alone have this power of self-conscious free will. We have the power of self-directed choice, (Even though there are those that need to exercise this a bit more.) and are not totaly goverened by instinct.

I disagree. Animals have intelligence and self-awareness...just to a lesser degree. This is especially evident in mammals (e.g., dogs/primates that can recognize themselves in a mirror or examples where primates are presented with hard-to-reach food and various tools - - and they figure out which tool best reaches the food).

I think it is a human conceit to think we are the only species with cognition.

If it can be controlled, then it does not quallify as an instinct.

I think humans have an underlying instinct that influences us, but (as you said) can be controlled by our "higher" mind. Animals have a different ratio of the instintual to cognitive mind and are influenced by their instincts to a different degree. Hypothetically, an insect may run on 100% instinct whereas a chimp may be 30% and humans 20% (I'm just making up numbers here...but my point is the variation in degree among species.)

Some may think my WAG of 20% for humans is high...perhaps it is, but think of all the commonalities in human behavior, the frequent retreats to irrationality, and the strong influence of the sexual drive in our lives.

[Fyodor]

I was talking to a girl on crutches who'd been hit by a car while crossing the street. I said "I'll bet you were already in the air when the car hit you." She was surprised and said "how'd you know that?" I didn't get into an explanation with her but I know humans instinctively flee danger. She may not have consciously had time to think about fleeing the car that was about to hit her but her instincts sure as hell did.

I was out with friends looking at an apartment they were thinking of buying. I went out on the third floor balcony and, as I approached the edge I got a definite bad feeling, a very strong feeling in my legs and abdomen. Further examination showed that the balcony supports had warped a little and the edge of the balcony was tilted slightly downwards. It wasn't really visible but my instincts certainly told me there was something wrong with the high platform I was standing on.

Thousands of years of domestic breeding may have made modern humans resemble their primitive ancestors about as much as a dairy cow resembles a buffalo but we are still animals. Certainly humans can still enjoy instinctual animal pleasures such as sex, men killing other men in war, caring for children, feasting, intoxication, regular bowel movements...

A debate suitable only for bars. I am amazed a professor would argue against the existence of human instincts but he probably has religious belief in the supernatural origin of humans.

[Fyodor]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention - have you ever been about to "have the crap beaten out of you" by a physically superior humanoid? You may have noticed that you instinctively had the urge to urinate in your pants. This is because a full bladder tends to burst inside your body when you are under brutal assault. This may also explain why, next time you are on an airliner that loses a wing and falls out of the sky, you might notice that 90% of the other passengers take a huge dump in their pants the moment they realize they are about to be splattered.

Oh yes, humans have many instincts.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Originally posted by Doubleclick
But given all this...the one major difference between humans and other animals is that humans are not guided by instinct alone as other animals are. Humans are self-conscious. Humans have the ability to realize, "I am 'I', and not anyone else. I am myself, not my environment. I am separate from all other things. I can influence or control these other things and bend them to my own uses, and so control my environment. Thus I can shape my destiny to suit myself."

Humans alone have this power of self-conscious free will. We have the power of self-directed choice, (Even though there are those that need to exercise this a bit more.) and are not totaly goverened by instinct.

By this standard, my cat is human. He will be VERY insulted if I tell him so, though.

[Doubleclick]

Originally posted by Al Zheimers
I was talking to a girl on crutches who'd been hit by a car while crossing the street. I said "I'll bet you were already in the air when the car hit you."

Not saying you are wrong...but would this not be considered a reflex?

I know that if I was about to get hit by a car, the first thing I would try to do is jump so the car doesn't hit me on the legs. If I jump, there is a chance that I could be higher up at the point of impact and be 'rolled' over the car.

Not saying that the result would be much better, but it beats being pulled under the car and being run over.

[Doubleclick]

[quote]Originally posted by Lynn Bodoni

By this standard, my cat is human. He will be VERY insulted if I tell him so, though.

But a cat instinctivly knows to hunt. He may not be perfect at it at first, but the preditory instinct is there. Even kittins instinctivly know the basic fundimentals of hunting...sure the cat is just playing, but it is honing up the skills it needs to hunt.

I'm pretty sure that you or I would fair pretty badly if we were stuck in a jungle and told to survive without any training...and how long would we last if we were dumped there as children. (I won't say 'babies' because even a kittin can walk when their hunting instinct starts showing.)

My point was that if humans do have them...there are not many of them left, and by the time we are adults, they are all but gone.

[peace]

The weekend is coming. So, when you have time, look up the difference between " instinct" and "reflex". Also, to complicate things, there is something else, namely, a series of reflexes. Such as in bowel movement. You may "enjoy" bowel movements, Al, but you can't willingly stop them. Therefore, it's not an instinct. You do not go "instinctively", you go, because you have to. And <<< men killing other men in war>>> is not an instinct. Instincts are geared toward the survival of the species. An individual can suppress an instinct. A reflex cannot be suppressed.
Getting rid of your wastes is reflectory. Doing so in solitude is an instict. In humans it is greatly enhanced by culture. But even dogs prefer some privacy.
Finally, dogs are unable to recognize themselves in a mirror. And only one breed of cats could be insulted (they can blush, too). It's called Bodonians.

[Sue Duhnym]

Originally posted by Doubleclick

Not saying you are wrong...but would this not be considered a reflex?

Yes, it is. The "Fight or Flight Response."

[Bobby_Drake2]

Ok people, it should be obvious people have instints... some oh you have purposed that since new born babies are near helpless they are stupid and because they lack the ability to survive on their own that they lack instincts... that is totalaly asinine. The many, many animals, humans included, are helpless at birth. A baby, cat, dog, bird, etc.. will starve if uncared for at birth not because they lack instincts but because they have evoled such that the parents are expected to care for them while they are young. This allows a shorter gestation period and the young also benifit from the parents teaching. Babies are not only just as smart as adults, they are smarter. Think of all the things they learn as they grow to adulthood. Think of how much easier it is for humans to learn when they are young, especially complex things like language. Babies are not stupid just ignorant, there is a difference. Ignorance means they simply lack the knowledge and expirience... but they do have the intelligence to learn it. If you dump a human of id say about 3-5 years of age, old enough to move around effectively on its own in the wild, it would have as reasonable a chance at survival as any other small mammal of approximate size/strength/mobility in that particular environment. Just as if you dumped and adult human. This doesnt say an adult and a child would have the same chance... they are in different weight classes... anyway yes humans have instincts, and no we arent the only animals that dont act soley on them... we just happen to be fairly intelligent, highly social, and have the ability to make and use tools.. wanna see human instincts in effect.. go to a bar with a couple of friends and start a fight.. see how the different groups fight or flee together, even groups not originally involved in the fight. Or even better go with somebody is like an aquaintace of yours.. somebody really dont care if they catch a beat down... somebody fights with them youll feel a natural urge to jump in... later....

[Rock]

Instinct: an innate pattern of behavior, unaffected by learning, found across an entire species that satiates a somatic tension.

A reflex, like blinking or infants sucking, is the closest thing I can think of to a human instinct but since infant sucking does not satiate the somatic tension of hunger it's called a reflex. The infant will suck on your finger or a pacifier and starve to death. All the "feel good" somatic tensions like hunger, thirst, sexual tension (when we're mature enough) direct us to learn behaviors that will satiate those tensions. The baby learns to suck on the nipple. The teenager learns to masturbate. The somatic tension, the urge, keeps him experimenting (learning) until he locates the vigina. Which he may never find.
As for people jumping out of the way of cars, the jump is as much reflexive as blinking. But even if it wasn't a person of that
age will have learned what happens if you don't move.
I remember in school ( I studied psych.) a study with infants trying to identify pure instincts. The closest they came was that an infant would display a fright response (crying) when a dark unfamilar object ( black rubber glove) was lowered into the babies crib. I can't find the study so it could have been that the baby had an upset stomach. Regardless, I'm sure that through introspection (a no-no in experimental anything) that it was assumed that they had found an instinctual behavior in an infant.
I believe that unless you call reflexual behavior an instinct that humans don't have instincts. Most everything we want to call instinct is learned by using the original equipment from the manufacturer.

[Hamish]

I'm with the camp that says we have intincts, we just choose to suppress them. Some people here are defining instincts as inalterable patterns of behaviour, but I think you'd have a hard time proving that, even for animals.

I wonder if human beings have any instincts unique to our species? One philosopher, John ralston Saul, once suggested that we have an instinct to build a society (in the broadest definition of that term) anywhere we go. We develop moral codes, sets of social expectations, and symbolic forms of communication automatically.

[barbitu8]

Originally posted by Rock
Instinct: an innate pattern of behavior, unaffected by learning, found across an entire species that satiates a somatic tension.

A reflex, like blinking or infants sucking, is the closest thing I can think of to a human instinct but since infant sucking does not satiate the somatic tension of hunger it's called a reflex. The infant will suck on your finger or a pacifier and starve to death. All the "feel good" somatic tensions like hunger, thirst, sexual tension (when we're mature enough) direct us to learn behaviors that will satiate those tensions.

M-W:

Main Entry: 1in·stinct
Pronunciation: 'in-"sti[ng](k)t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin instinctus impulse, from instinguere to incite; akin to Latin instigare to instigate
Date: 15th century
1 : a natural or inherent aptitude, impulse, or capacity <had an instinct for the right word>
2 a : a largely inheritable and unalterable tendency of an organism to make a complex and specific response to environmental stimuli without involving reason b : behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level.

Nothing in those definitions require that the inherent "aptitude, impulse, or capacity" must be satisfied. Just present. So if you make up your own definition for "instinct" you can come to any conclusion you want.

[Chronos]

OK, how about avoidance of fire? Most animals will avoid fire: Is this instinct? Because it's quite possible for an animal, despite this initial fear of fire, to learn that fires can be a source of food and safety, expecially if there are humans near the fire. That seems to me to mean that animals can override instinct via learned behaviour.

[Rock]

Hamish, you almost had me sold on the "instinct to build a society". The "moral codes, sets of social expectations, and symbolic forms of communication automatically" aren't bad either. The first problem I have is that there are too many exceptions. There are zillions of humans that abhore all those things. Another problem is which came first, the instinct to make moral codes, social expectations etc or the learning process (of elimination) that lead us (taught) us to do these things.

Barbi, you sound a tad grumpy today. I think the reason that we are on different pages is that I am looking for a more technical example of human instinct. For instance if we were talking about "human feelings" Then you would start hitting me over the head with all sorts of lyrical examples of human feelings when I am really looking for something regarding tactile stimulation and synapses. Anyway the problem as I see it is that you are not dealing with is the fact that a human instinct will show up across the species. You know, Eskimos, Asians, Caucasians, Latinos etc. etc. The fact that an individual has some inherited traits, some aptitudes, impulses or capacities is not what we're talking about. Not what I'm talking about. As for my definition ........ not bad huh? Actually it is from definitions by the original theorist. This is a really old question. The whole issue was dead and buried in the 1950s. There's an article by Harlow written in 1953 where he critiques early theorists. Early on in the article (Of Mice, Men and Motives) he reqrets the early demise of human instinct theory. That's in 1953. The guys trying to prove the existence of human instincts flourished in the 40's. Anyway by the 50's the instinct theorists had had their collective asses kicked by newer developemental theorists. I'm still looking for a good example of human instinct. Not a reflex (sucking), not a physical drive (hunger), and not an inherited trait (good with numbers or words). I want to find some nest-building humans. Something like that.

Chronos, I'm guessing but I think you might be very close with the "fire" thing. I have not been able to find this study but I vaguely remember one about infants having an instinctive fear of unfamiliar dark objects. The experimenters were lowering a black rubber glove into the infants crib. Apparently every time they did this the baby would show a fright response by crying. Instinctual fear of unfamilar dark objects? Don't know. Can't find the study. The same chapter had babies crawling across a glass floor to see if there was an instinctual fear of falling. Can't find the study.

[Rock]

Hamish, you almost had me sold on the "instinct to build a society". The "moral codes, sets of social expectations, and symbolic forms of communication automatically" aren't bad either. The first problem I have is that there are too many exceptions. There are zillions of humans that abhore all those things. Another problem is which came first, the instinct to make moral codes, social expectations etc or the learning process (of elimination) that lead us (taught) us to do these things.

Barbi, you sound a tad grumpy today. Period and double period. I think the reason that we are on different pages is that I am looking for a more technical example of human instinct. For instance if we were talking about "human feelings" Then you would start hitting me over the head with all sorts of lyrical examples of human feelings when I am really looking for something regarding tactile stimulation and synapses. Anyway the problem as I see it is that you are not dealing with is the fact that a human instinct will show up across the species. You know, Eskimos, Asians, Caucasians, Latinos etc. etc. The fact that an individual has some inherited traits, some aptitudes, impulses or capacities is not what we're talking about. Not what I'm talking about. As for my definition ........ not bad huh? Actually it is from definitions by the original theorist. This is a really old question. The whole issue was dead and buried in the 1950s. There's an article by Harlow written in 1953 where he critiques early theorists. Early on in the article (Of Mice, Men and Motives) he reqrets the early demise of human instinct theory. That's in 1953. The guys trying to prove the existence of human instincts flourished in the 40's. Anyway by the 50's the instinct theorists had had their collective asses kicked by newer developemental theorists. I'm still looking for a good example of human instinct. Not a reflex (sucking), not a physical drive (hunger), and not an inherited trait (good with numbers or words). I want to find some nest-building humans. Something like that.

Chronos, I'm guessing but I think you might be very close with the "fire" thing. I have not been able to find this study but I vaguely remember one about infants having an instinctive fear of unfamiliar dark objects. The experimenters were lowering a black rubber glove into the infants crib. Apparently every time they did this the baby would show a fright response by crying. Instinctual fear of unfamilar dark objects? Don't know. Can't find the study. The same chapter had babies crawling across a glass floor to see if there was an instinctual fear of falling. Can't find the study.

[DocCathode]

(I could use my Psychology textbook for a cite. If I could find the book amidst all the clutter)

Adult humans, regardless of location or culture, speak to infants in specific tones and speech patterns. We switch from normal speech to baby talk when presented with the stimulus of an infant.

I agree with the other Dopers "Humans are animals. We have instincts."

[Rock]

Ya, Doc. I've heard about this. Go find the book I'd like to read up on it.