Little Girl Takes Six Bullets for her Mother -- the Ultimate RO thread?

[Sailboat]

If this story turns out to be substantially true as presented here , we have perhaps the best target yet for our Recreational Outrage: some loser shot his girlfriend, and her seven-year-old* daughter stepped in front of her mom, so he shot the little girl six times, too.

*it's possible she's 8, according to the link

Kicker number one: she's visually impaired to the point that she's in special education. This stain shot a half-blind little girl.

Kicker number two: then the chickenshit surrendered peacefully to police. Apparently it's one thing to shoot an unarmed woman and a disabled child; another thing entirely to face people who might shoot back.

I don't know any of these people, and for all I know this is an internet hoax. (It does seem to be in multiple places though.) So I'll take my lumps for RO posting and more if it's false.

If it isn't, here's to little Alexis Goggins. Not many would have been as swift and as brave. May you recover fully -- we could use you, and more like you.

Sailboat

[Czarcasm]

She was seven years old. Here is a news link.

[Darth Nader]

"The first operator clicked off and I dialed again and told that operator a guy with a gun was holding me hostage with a mother and baby and threatening to kill us. I told her the name of the gas station and then she said they didn't have a unit to send."

So is Detroit totally broken, then? Good lord.

[Li'l Pluck]

That little girl is such a cutie! I really hope she recovers fully and goes on to have the kind of life that her mother's piece-of-shit pussy plug tried to deny her.

And I'm glad the mother survived, too.

Now, here's my thing (as if no one else was thinking it, right?): According to the article, he's a four-time convicted felon. Now, even though the article doesn't classify the dickhead's crimes as either violent or non-violent, still, he's a four-time convicted felon.

Question: What, if anything, did the mother know about his past crimes and convictions? And did he serve prison time? And if so, did she know about that?

I mean, it's like, damn, do we now, before involving ourselves in relationships, need to inquire as to whether or not potential mates have criminal histories? Absent other obvious signs of malcontentedness or moral deviation, of course.

Damn.

--Me, reminded yet again why I'm content to be alone.

[Zabali_Clawbane]

Originally Posted by Sailboat

If this story turns out to be substantially true as presented here , we have perhaps the best target yet for our Recreational Outrage: some loser shot his girlfriend, and her seven-year-old* daughter stepped in front of her mom, so he shot the little girl six times, too.

<snip>

I disagree, I can name some better candidates.

Nine Day Old Infant Killed By Rape To top it off, the asshole who killed this baby, began to beat her mother in the car, en route to the ER.

or

Autistic Boy Stabbed In Both Eyes By Aunt Note: The autistic boy cannot speak, and is probably permanently blind now.

Both of those are worse (IMO) than what the OP is outraged about. Not that the crime above doesn't also deserve outrage as well. It does.

[Zabali_Clawbane]

Originally Posted by Zabali_Clawbane

I disagree, I can name some better candidates.

Nine Day Old Infant Killed By Rape To top it off, the asshole who allegedly killed this baby, began to beat her mother in the car, en route to the ER.

or

Autistic Boy Stabbed In Both Eyes By Aunt Note: The autistic boy cannot speak, and is probably permanently blind now.

Both of those are worse (IMO) than what the OP is outraged about. Not that the crime above doesn't also deserve outrage as well. It does.

Corrective word added in bold and red. I do know better.

[Darth Nader]

Zabali, I bet you're a lot of fun at parties. Gads.

[Zabali_Clawbane]

Originally Posted by Darth Nader

Zabali, I bet you're a lot of fun at parties. Gads.

*wry* I read more than one place that deals with true crime. Blogs, and a message board. I work to keep it from taking too much out of me though. Guess you don't read the Websleuths board, or Steve Huffs' blogs/other true crime blogs eh? Whatever you do, don't peek at Parents Behaving Badly. I don't go read there often, bad for my blood pressure.

[Slypork]

Originally Posted by Darth Nader

Zabali, I bet you're a lot of fun at parties. Gads.

Maybe Zabali is related to this woman.

[elmwood]

Somewhere online, there has to be a recreational outrage blog with the latest news of extreme child abuse, animal torture and cruelty, and criminal sentences against women in nations with Sharia law.

[Zebra]

Originally Posted by Sailboat

Kicker number two: then the chickenshit surrendered peacefully to police. Apparently it's one thing to shoot an unarmed woman and a disabled child; another thing entirely to face people who might shoot back.

I don't see why this is a 'kicker'. Would you be happier if he shot some cops as well?

OTOH, you have also falied to consider that he was simply out of bullets.

[silenus]

I think it's more along the lines of "If he had taken a shot at the cops, they would have killed the scum, saving the county the cost of a trial and incarceration."

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by silenus

I think it's more along the lines of "If he had taken a shot at the cops, they would have killed the scum, saving the county the cost of a trial and incarceration."

So instead of a few decades living in a concrete cell the scum gets a quick death?

[silenus]

Point. But when he gets out of jail he'll just do something like this again. The recidivism rates for this sort of thing are very high. Easier all around to cap him quick.

Moot point. He's a part of the System now, and likely will be for life, more or less.

[SmartAleq]

Originally Posted by elmwood

Somewhere online, there has to be a recreational outrage blog with the latest news of extreme child abuse, animal torture and cruelty, and criminal sentences against women in nations with Sharia law.

Of course there is--and somewhere in cyberspace someone's rubbing one out while reading it, too!


Fuck, save me a window seat...

[Cluricaun]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

Of course there is--and somewhere in cyberspace someone's rubbing one out while reading it, too!


Fuck, save me a window seat...

And someone paying to watch him do it via webcam.

[Malodorous]

Originally Posted by Zebra

I

OTOH, you have also falied to consider that he was simply out of bullets.

My theory is that he'd just decided he wasn't really that good at this sort of thing and gave up.

I mean, I don't know much about the mechanics of shooting people, but I feel that if someone gave me a gun, 8 bullets and a more or less stationary blind 6 year old girl and her mother I could manage to successfully kill at least one of them.

[Stuffy]

Originally Posted by Malodorous

My theory is that he'd just decided he wasn't really that good at this sort of thing and gave up.

I mean, I don't know much about the mechanics of shooting people, but I feel that if someone gave me a gun, 8 bullets and a more or less stationary blind 6 year old girl and her mother I could manage to successfully kill at least one of them.

You are so going to hell! Would you like me to save you a seat?

[gigi]

That was my thought too-- " suffering gunshot wounds to the eye, left temple, chin, cheek, chest and right arm" -- wow, he's a crappy shot.

[Sapo]

Originally Posted by Malodorous

My theory is that he'd just decided he wasn't really that good at this sort of thing and gave up.

I mean, I don't know much about the mechanics of shooting people, but I feel that if someone gave me a gun, 8 bullets and a more or less stationary blind 6 year old girl and her mother I could manage to successfully kill at least one of them.

Horrible as it is, this was exactly my thought. How could they both survive? Are we sure it is the girl who is blind?

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

So instead of a few decades living in a concrete cell the scum gets a quick death?

Not to argue with you, but I came up with a possible retort that the mom and daughter would say....

"Would I want this guy still breathing and angry (with even the slightest possibility of seeing daylight again) still on our minds, or would I rather live out the rest of my days knowing that he'll never be in our lives again." TheirMMV.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

So instead of a few decades living in a concrete cell the scum gets a quick death?

Fuck that punishment crap. Punishment is just prurient revenge. Put him out of everyone's misery and be done with it. What a scumfuck psycho. I hope he gets raped in prison.

[Revtim]

If a puppy also took a bullet for the child, then it's be the Ultimate RO thread. And also, the bullet went through a kitten and then circumcised a pro-foreskin activist before hitting the puppy.

[Paladud]

Originally Posted by Revtim

If a puppy also took a bullet for the child, then it's be the Ultimate RO thread. And also, the bullet went through a kitten and then circumcised a pro-foreskin activist before hitting the puppy.

It first grazed the brain of the world's foremost marketing advisor, leading to all stores playing Christmas music starting in May.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by mswas

Fuck that punishment crap. Punishment is just prurient revenge. Put him out of everyone's misery and be done with it. What a scumfuck psycho. I hope he gets raped in prison.

How the hell do you go from, "Punishment is just prurient revenge," to "I hope he gets raped," in only two sentences?

[danceswithcats]

Ah, but if the police had used a taser on the perp while taking him into custody, it would be a totally different matter.

[wring]

Originally Posted by Li'l Pluck

Question: (snip)Did he serve prison time?

according to public records, some one with that last name and an alternate spelling of the first was on parole in De-troit for assorted violent crimes, picture seems to match the one in the news link. Haven't a clue if mom knew his record, though. So, since he was on parole, yes, he did prison time.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by Miller

How the hell do you go from, "Punishment is just prurient revenge," to "I hope he gets raped," in only two sentences?

Haha, that's a really good question. I'll have to examine that one. I guess I'd prefer him to just be eliminated, but the irrational angry side of me slipped one in underneath my nose.

[Li'l Pluck]

Originally Posted by wring

<snip> So, since he was on parole, yes, he did prison time.

Aaaaaaaand, apparently, not enough!

Thanks so much, wring, for the info.

Now, while I don't know if the mother knew of his criminal past, I'm going to go out on a limb--albeit a short limb--and WAG that she could have known.

I won't say why I think this is possible, as my flame-retardant suit...oh, never mind, but trust me, I have my reasons.

[wring]

Originally Posted by Li'l Pluck

Aaaaaaaand, apparently, not enough!

Thanks so much, wring, for the info.

Now, while I don't know if the mother knew of his criminal past, I'm going to go out on a limb--albeit a short limb--and WAG that she could have known.

I won't say why I think this is possible, as my flame-retardant suit...oh, never mind, but trust me, I have my reasons.

short limb indeed. Michigan has a public website that gave me the info, certainly she could have also checked.

[Darth Nader]

If she had a computer, internet access, and no fear of interacting with the government, right?

[wring]

Originally Posted by Darth Nader

If she had a computer, internet access, and no fear of interacting with the government, right?

simple access to an internet connected computer for about 2 minutes.

[Darth Nader]

Where?

[wring]

info sent

[Darth Nader]

Got it, wring If you want you can post my reply.

[Darth Nader]

Please note-- all is okay between me and wring

[wring]

absolutely.

[FriarTed]

Originally Posted by mswas

Haha, that's a really good question. I'll have to examine that one. I guess I'd prefer him to just be eliminated, but the irrational angry side of me slipped one in underneath my nose.

Maybe he could be eliminated VIA rape?

[Li'l Pluck]

Originally Posted by wring

short limb indeed. Michigan has a public website that gave me the info, certainly she could have also checked.

Thanks. I gotcha.

I was referring, though, to what I've seen and heard of in my travels: that there are women who will, for a variety of reasons--economic, psychological, whatever else--not only consort with known criminals or men of dubious moral fortitude, but also take them into their homes, expose their children to them, and, unfortunately, produce more children with them. How sad, and how stupid.

So, of course, I was wondering if this might be the case here. And I wouldn't be surprised if it were. Note (for those who might misunderstand me) that I'm not saying that it is the case here, just that I wouldn't be surprised.

P.S.--Not to ignore or dismiss, by the way, what I thought was Darth Nader's very reasonable point.

[1010011010]

I initially read the title as ROI - return on investment.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by FriarTed

Maybe he could be eliminated VIA rape?

Lets all pray for his soul.

[mnemosyne]

He gave her 10$... told her to put 5$ worth of gas into a Ford EXPEDITION...

I kept waiting for the story to tell us they drove off, but had to stop at the next gas pump to fill up on gas again...!

I was also thinking something along the lines of "what a lousy shot!"

This poor girl; suffers a stroke as an infant, grows up walking with a limp and half-blind, and now has gotten shot multiple times by her mother's very poor choice of boyfriend (yes, ex-boyfriend, and there's nothing in the news story to say that any of this was foreseeable, and I assume it was the mother that broke up with him but still....) That girl will need lots and lots of therapy!

[buttonjockey308]

And yet there are stiff arguments against the death penalty. It boggles.

I had a whole paragraph of vitriol and whatnot, but all I think it should boil down to is, one bullet, one unmarked hole, goodbye shithead. Spend the money we WOULD have spent housing, clothing and feeding this fuck, and help the victims.

[Li'l Pluck]

Originally Posted by buttonjockey308

And yet there are stiff arguments against the death penalty. It boggles.

I had a whole paragraph of vitriol and whatnot, but all I think it should boil down to is, one bullet, one unmarked hole, goodbye shithead. Spend the money we WOULD have spent housing, clothing and feeding this fuck, and help the victims.

Well, yeah, some of us believe that murder is murder, period. Yes, even if the perp ain't worth shit, murder (to be distinguished from killing in self-defense/preservation of innocent lives) is still murder. And some of us just can't live with that.

So no, continued stiff arguments against the dealth penalty don't boggle me. Not at all.

Prison--and all of its attendant ugliness--for life, with no parole? Yep, absopositively. (And I'll admit that my motives aren't entirely altruistic--I want him to suffer until his dying day. Maybe that makes me a bad person. I can live with that, 'cause I didn't try to murder an innocent child.) But what, for me, realistically amounts to one murder for another (mind you, as far as I know, the child is still alive, but just in case)? Please, not in my name.

[Li'l Pluck]

Don't get me wrong. I understand exactly how you feel, as do, I reckon, many other opponents of the death penalty. People who do these things are several orders of magnitude lower than scum (actually, there is no comparison), and the world would be a better place if they weren't around--or hadn't even been born. But what good would come of us being just like them? Well, okay, not just like them, but I think you get the idea.

[buttonjockey308]

Originally Posted by Li'l Pluck

Well, yeah, some of us believe that murder is murder, period. Yes, even if the perp ain't worth shit, murder (to be distinguished from killing in self-defense/preservation of innocent lives) is still murder. And some of us just can't live with that.

So no, continued stiff arguments against the dealth penalty don't boggle me. Not at all.

Prison--and all of its attendant ugliness--for life, with no parole? Yep, absopositively. (And I'll admit that my motives aren't entirely altruistic--I want him to suffer until his dying day. Maybe that makes me a bad person. I can live with that, 'cause I didn't try to murder an innocent child.) But what, for me, realistically amounts to one murder for another (mind you, as far as I know, the child is still alive, but just in case)? Please, not in my name.

Except there are clear differences both legal and moral, between the state protecting its' law abiding citizenry from a homicidal maniac and the acts of the aforementioned maniac.

When you have someone THAT disconnected from humanity that they not only shoot their significant other, but her child as well, that speaks of an ill that cannot be cured except by death. Some people are just socially damaged beyond repair, and while it's a romatic notion to believe in life for its' own sake, keeping the worthless shitwad alive in a box seems to be at odds with the truth of nature.

He tried to kill a disabled child because he was pissed off at his girlfriend. He is a four (now) five time felon. He deserves nothing less than death. I would prefer a he be thrown wide-eyed into a tree barker but would settle for the hot shot.

[Ruby]

Originally Posted by Li'l Pluck

<snip> I want him to suffer until his dying day.

...with cable tv, internet access, 3 squares a day and a free fucking education. Granted his freedom is restricted but someone as evil as him doesn't deserve even half of what my tax dollars are giving him every day that he remains alive.

[wring]

no internet access in MI prisons (most of the staff don't have it either), only education available in MI prisons are GED, some limited vocational stuff (usually shit that allows the prison to run, like janitorial vocational stuff). no cable that I noticed, shared tv w/200 of your closest friends, other than that if you can personally afford a tv (blackand white), only what's locally available, when power is on. meals, yea, ever eaten prison food? and, of course, there's the lack of privacy, lack of freedom, lack of contact w/loved ones, lack of choices. anyone who thinks prison is a cake walk has limited experiences with them.

all of your mail is read by others, censored. only contact w/loved ones is limited visits (where they're subject to bodysearches), and collect phone calls. nothing in the world to do and all the time to do it in.

[Li'l Pluck]

Originally Posted by buttonjockey308

Except there are clear differences both legal and moral, between the state protecting its' law abiding citizenry from a homicidal maniac and the acts of the aforementioned maniac.

When you have someone THAT disconnected from humanity that they not only shoot their significant other, but her child as well, that speaks of an ill that cannot be cured except by death. Some people are just socially damaged beyond repair, and while it's a romatic notion to believe in life for its' own sake, keeping the worthless shitwad alive in a box seems to be at odds with the truth of nature.

He tried to kill a disabled child because he was pissed off at his girlfriend. He is a four (now) five time felon. He deserves nothing less than death. I would prefer a he be thrown wide-eyed into a tree barker but would settle for the hot shot.

I'll grant you that there are indeed differences in motive--though that's not even always entirely true; the desire for revenge (understandable), I think, also plays a role--but there's something about this kind of killing that just doesn't sit well with me.

And, really, if the goal is to protect law abiding citizens from homicidal maniacs, well...can't prisons be effective towards that end? Yeah, I know--murderers (of the cold-blooded variety; yes, I believe that there are different gradations of murder) don't always get "till your dying day" sentences, and I'm not happy with that,* but restructuring sentencing guidelines so that more of these sentences would, where appropriate, be meted out is more palatable to me than unnecessarily shedding blood.

And my opposition to capital punishment is not based so much on a "romantic" notion of life for life's sake (though, yeah, I do believe that) as it is on the realization that, try as I may, I simply can't come up with one good answer to the question "What, in the absence of defense of my own life or some other extraordinarily extenuating circumstance, gives me the right to decide that someone should die?"

And I believe that this is why I'll always stand where I stand, irrespective of how much I despise murderers.

*I'm a true-blue liberal who believes that things are not always black-and-white, and I'm not a fan of most zero-tolerance policies (because the human experience isn't always zero-tolerance), but commit a murder because you "didn't want to be a punk" and therefore couldn't walk away from an argument, or because you don't like someone's race/ethnicity/religion/sex/sexual orientation/blah-blah-blah, or because you coveted some possession of theirs, or because your "holy" book told you to, or some other bullshit excuse that doesn't involve imminent danger to yourself or others? Then you need to be removed from civilized society, never to re-enter same. Never. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Originally Posted by Ruby

...with cable tv, internet access, 3 squares a day and a free fucking education. Granted his freedom is restricted but someone as evil as him doesn't deserve even half of what my tax dollars are giving him every day that he remains alive.

Okay, even if what you say is true (and I'd like to think that what wring reports is more the norm than the exception), I gotta tell ya, there ain't nothing like freedom!

Imagine that a lifer gets cable TV (which I don't have because (a) I don't watch enough TV to justify the expense, (b) I do okay pay-wise, but not enough to waste money on something that I wouldn't use), internet access, 3 squares a day, and a free education (I should be so lucky--mine's gonna cost me in excess of $100K), well...then what? I mean, what's he going to be able to do with those things if, bottom line, he can't go out to a movie on a Saturday night and then hit the bars to try to get laid? Or if he can't travel, forget to other countries, but even the next county over? Hell, if he can't even move more than a five-foot radius without someone's permission or someone watching his every move? I mean, he can't do shit (hell, he might not even be able to shit in privacy!), even if he is getting all of those things you mention.

But you know what? I can, even if I were too poor for cable TV, internet service, three meals a day, and an education. And so can you, right?

So, yeah, you might think that they have it "good," but you and I both know that they don't have shit. Not for-real, for-real. And that is just as it ought to be.

[buttonjockey308]

Originally Posted by Li'l Pluck

And, really, if the goal is to protect law abiding citizens from homicidal maniacs, well...can't prisons be effective towards that end? Yeah, I know--murderers (of the cold-blooded variety; yes, I believe that there are different gradations of murder) don't always get "till your dying day" sentences, and I'm not happy with that,* but restructuring sentencing guidelines so that more of these sentences would, where appropriate, be meted out is more palatable to me than unnecessarily shedding blood.

Sure they can, but think about this, if we took the resources we used, dollar for dollar, to keep people like this alive for life and redirected those to truly altruistic ends, (this concept applies to all pork barrel projects and similar BS expenses) we could go a greater length to actually ending suffering. If the average cost per year to house one DR inmate is, let's say $50,000, we slip the killer the needle for, say, $1000, that year alone, there's an extra $49,000. Granted, that's WAAAY too simplistic an example, given the intracices of governmental accounting, but still, what about it? I think in your last sentence you hit upon the most critical point in the argument; palatability. Killing someone is a difficult thing to do, but sometimes it needs done. It's a hard and dirty business but sometimes there is no other choice, and we have to have the stomach to deal with it.

Originally Posted by Li'l Pluck

And my opposition to capital punishment is not based so much on a "romantic" notion of life for life's sake (though, yeah, I do believe that) as it is on the realization that, try as I may, I simply can't come up with one good answer to the question "What, in the absence of defense of my own life or some other extraordinarily extenuating circumstance, gives me the right to decide that someone should die?"

That's the thing, YOU don't decide, the law and a jury do. If you're on a jury, vote as you see fit, and of course, you're free to oppose the death penalty, but I will tell you this; the answer to your question will come to you clearly if you ever have to identify the remains of a loved one that has been murdered for their, money, things, race, sex, etc. Frankly, as unpleasant as it is, I believe killing the murderer is in balance.