why aren't hockey fights more vicious?

Anchuldigs · #1 12-14-2007, 01:53 AM

why do they not use their skates to slash? sticks to hit? what do they hope to accomplish by hitting a fully padded man with bare hands? don't they end up bruising their hands?
If you're gonna fight why not go all out instead of the stupid bitch slapping?

Argent Towers · #2 12-14-2007, 01:59 AM

I played hockey in a youth league (so I'm not exactly the most qualified to answer) but fighting still happened now and then. But nobody would think to really go all-out and use vicious tactics. It was regarded as fighting dirty! Nobody wants to be thought of as a dirty fighter.

If they used their sticks and skates to attack, they would risk killing the opponent. People usually don't want to have a man's blood on their hands. It's not like they're trying to kill each other.

Rysto · #3 12-14-2007, 02:39 AM

Well, fighting is more or less allowed in hockey(you don't even get ejected for fighting -- both fighters are given 5 minute penalties). The things that you describe are far more vicious and are absolutely not tolerated in hockey. Something to the level that you describe would almost certainly result in criminal charges for assault.

Philster · #4 12-14-2007, 05:51 AM

Hockey fighting has rules. They just aren't set forth in a fancy document.

And it might take a few fights, but you will see guys have their faces crushed.

It is far from 'bitch slapping'. The scariest knock outs I have ever seen were in hockey fights. Google some videos...it is frightening what happens when someone is caught with a full roundhouse punch, on ice, from an ungloved hand.

I've fought on ice. You can get away with minor bruising even when losing bad. You wake up with a few tenderized parts of your face, but I've also seen guys have their cheek bones crushed in.

Rookies have been known to introduce themselves to a league enforcer before a face off, and they will say something like, "hey, I'm a new guy trying to make a name for myself, wanna go?" Sometimes, if feeling generous, the league enforcer will say, "sure". Puck is dropped and these guys go at it.

Many rules, just not in a fancy document.

SmellMyWort · #5 12-14-2007, 08:43 AM

Maybe because it's a game.

Ravenman · #6 12-14-2007, 08:48 AM

Hmmm.... ultimate fighting on ice.... this could be one of those profit deals...

pravnik · #7 12-14-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenman

Hmmm.... ultimate fighting on ice.... this could be one of those profit deals...

Way ahead of you!

MikeS · #8 12-14-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rysto

The things that you describe are far more vicious and are absolutely not tolerated in hockey. Something to the level that you describe would almost certainly result in criminal charges for assault.

Hell, it doesn't even take that — witness the case of Todd Bertuzzi. You can see video of the punch in question here; Bertuzzi (#44) grabs Moore (#36) from behind and punches him in the back of the head, knocking him over and pushing his head into the ice. Bertuzzi pled guilty to a charge of assault causing bodily harm later that year.

(Aside: in the video, this is immediately followed by a clip from a previous game between the same teams, in which Moore knocks over the team captain (Näslund, #19) while going for the puck. This was the main cause of the bad blood between the two teams.)

Santo Rugger · #9 12-14-2007, 11:09 AM

There's only one player who's ever taken his skate off and used it to attack an opponent.

Happy Gilmore.

OneCentStamp · #10 12-14-2007, 11:22 AM

...psst...it's because hockey players aren't really that tough.

Lemur866 · #11 12-14-2007, 11:28 AM

Thing is, hockey fights aren't two out of control guys trying to kill each other. It's two guys fighting. And hockey fighting has rules, both written and unwritten. Anyone who tried to kill or seriously injure another player faces not only being fired, but criminal charges. Two guys who wrestle each other face only a penalty.

The league could stop fighting cold simply by giving multi-game suspensions to players who fight, this is why you never see basketball players punching each other. The NHL doesn't want to do that for various reasons that seem good to them. So scuffling and wrestling are considered part of the game and all in good fun. But vicious assaults aren't.

diggleblop · #12 12-14-2007, 11:37 AM

Because someone could easily die getting hit with a fiberglass hockey stick.

Hari Seldon · #13 12-14-2007, 12:35 PM

One of the (unwritten, as far as I know) rules is that you must drop your stick and gloves. Hitting someone on the face mask with bare hands and having to anchor yourself on the ice is not exactly a formula for inflicting serious injury. The Todd Bertuzzi case was different and the league missed a good chance to show its rules by letting him off lightly.

But the bottom line is that many of the goons who watch hockey want to see them fighting. I think the fights are nearly as choreographed as pro wrestling. I used to be a serious fan (had season tickets to the Canadiens when you could sit in the nosebleed seats for $3) but finally all the fighting turned me off.

Philster · #14 12-14-2007, 12:52 PM

Hockey players/fans/officials generally feel the fighting is the safest form of release for all the tension that builds in the confines of a rink between opponents. A good hockey fight or two, done according to the 'rules', has a calming effect. Even if it spurs other fights, if they are allowed to happen and run their course, it is usually for the better.

Linemen are responsible to break up fights, and good linemen will let the fighters duke it out and then step in when they tire. Each teams feels they had their shot, and they move on.

Linemen who are more aggressive (Kevin Collins, I'll never miss you), jump in to break up anything that could become a fight. If you have these do-gooders on the ice when the tension is high, you should be prepared for all out chaos. Each team gets incredibly frustrated, and since they are prevented from releasing the tension according to well worn but unwritten rules, it becomes a tinderbox.

pravnik · #15 12-14-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemur866

The league could stop fighting cold simply by giving multi-game suspensions to players who fight, this is why you never see basketball players punching each other.

You mean "rarely see basketball players punching each other."

OneCentStamp · #16 12-14-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pravnik

You mean "rarely see basketball players punching each other."

Well, NBA players usually save that stuff for the nightclubs.

Chefguy · #17 12-14-2007, 02:04 PM

Since Phil Schultz retired, hockey fights are tame stuff. I remember him skating past the opposing bench and clipping an assistant coach with his stick.

Leaffan · #18 12-14-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chefguy

Since Phil Schultz retired, hockey fights are tame stuff. I remember him skating past the opposing bench and clipping an assistant coach with his stick.

Dave Schultz?

There are brawls in baseball as well, but you never see the batter trying to club the pitcher with a bat.

Hockey is a very physical game where checking is not only allowed, but is a very important aspect of the game. Physical contact will no doubt lead to occasional fights.

Some fans like that: some don't. The NHL is aware that fights are a fan draw and are unwilling to remove that aspect of the game. And the argument has been made that if fights are completely disallowed then they will be supplanted with perhaps more injurious methods of problem resolution.

42fish · #19 12-14-2007, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaffan

There are brawls in baseball as well, but you never see the batter trying to club the pitcher with a bat.

Although Juan Marichal did rather infamously club catcher Johnny Roseboro with his bat during a game.

Ms Macphisto · #20 12-14-2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rysto

Well, fighting is more or less allowed in hockey(you don't even get ejected for fighting -- both fighters are given 5 minute penalties). The things that you describe are far more vicious and are absolutely not tolerated in hockey. Something to the level that you describe would almost certainly result in criminal charges for assault.

Another one that resulted in charges for assault, besides the Bertuzzi case, was when Marty McSorley clubbed Donald Brashear from behind with his stick. (Video here) This incident seems pretty close to the kind of thing the OP is asking about, and the results weren't particularly good for Brashear, although he was at least able to resume his NHL career, unlike Moore.

RickJay · #21 12-14-2007, 03:32 PM

The OP hasn't actually been precisely answered in one place, so I'll do it;

Hockey players don't use skates and sticks to fight because if they do, they will be suspended or banned from the league. Simple fighting is merely an in-game penalty; fighting with weapons results in very serious repercussions.

Chefguy · #22 12-14-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaffan

Dave Schultz?

Yeah, I always get his first name wrong. It's Dave who played for Philly, not Phil who played for the Davis Cup.