My sister is trying to cheat me out of parents estate. What to do?

[cheatedbykids]

Quite recently my ex husband died. He was a dead beat dad, rarely saw my children. Not to mention left us with no money and did not pay support. The state and the IRS pursued him for money but didn't do it for years. Many years passed and my children grew into adulthood. I sacraficed so much to educate them, rare them and give all that I could with great financial risk to myself. Well you can imagine what happend at the time of my ex husband's death. The children were sole hiers. I asked them for a portion of the estate that I felt I was entitle to. Guess what I found out, a few of my children had a price to sell out their mother. Not only that, their excuse was that I didn't do that much or not enough.Talk about being slapped twice in the heart. Can you imagine that,the mother that gave them birth and never let them down was worth nothing. So my best advise is do not trust a family member who is evasive about the estate, file a suit and get a lawyer to keep everyone honest. I will never recover from this. Never in my wildest dreams would I think a child of mine would cheat their mother. Talk to you parents with an honest lawyer present and have it taped. what is also important is the executor of the will. A great deal of control there. Good luck!

[Robot Arm]

Originally Posted by cheatedbykids

I asked them for a portion of the estate that I felt I was entitle to.

If you wanted alimony or child support from your ex-husband, you should have pursued it while you were alive. What you're entitled to from his estate is what's written in the will.

I'm currently in the process of executing my mother's estate; there's just my brother and I, and a few gifts to charities. Her father (my grandfather) died about ten years ago; I received something, but he'd had a disagreement with my brother and did not leave him anything. My mother tried to make up for that in her will be leaving her house to my brother and splitting everything else. The house is easily twice what I got ten years ago.

Let it go. My brother has been bitter for a decade, and despite coming out ahead he shows every indication of continuing to be bitter. I wish my mom had been more willing to talk about these sorts of things while she was alive, but I know I'm not owed anything. I'm grateful for the time we had, that she was responsible enough to save and have something to leave behind, and for teaching me the same.

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by cheatedbykids

Quite recently my ex husband died. He was a dead beat dad, rarely saw my children. Not to mention left us with no money and did not pay support. The state and the IRS pursued him for money but didn't do it for years. Many years passed and my children grew into adulthood. I sacraficed so much to educate them, rare them and give all that I could with great financial risk to myself. Well you can imagine what happend at the time of my ex husband's death. The children were sole hiers. I asked them for a portion of the estate that I felt I was entitle to. Guess what I found out, a few of my children had a price to sell out their mother. Not only that, their excuse was that I didn't do that much or not enough.Talk about being slapped twice in the heart. Can you imagine that,the mother that gave them birth and never let them down was worth nothing. So my best advise is do not trust a family member who is evasive about the estate, file a suit and get a lawyer to keep everyone honest. I will never recover from this. Never in my wildest dreams would I think a child of mine would cheat their mother. Talk to you parents with an honest lawyer present and have it taped. what is also important is the executor of the will. A great deal of control there. Good luck!

Did he leave a will? If not, then the law specifies how the estate is divided among heirs. If the law does not consider you an heir, then you are not entitled inherit a portion of the estate. In fact, if one of the children was the executor of the estate, they could not give you a share even if they wanted to, as it would be in violation of the law and in violation of their duty as administrator of the estate.

The way you CAN get money from the estate is to be a creditor -- someone the estate owes money to. Creditors have to be paid off first, and whatever is left is then distributed among the heirs. You should talk to a layer about how to establish a claim against the estate.

But it sounds like you never made a claim against the estate, and just asked your kids to give you some of their shares after the money was distributed. If they said no, it might make them bad people, but they cannot be considered "cheating" in any way shape or form.

By the way -- I agree with the "get a lawyer" part if you feel an estate is being mismanaged or you are being cheated. And FYI, my cousin is now suing his sister, on behalf of their mother, for money the sister allegedly stole from their father's estate. My brother is the legal guardian of his mother (who is mentally ill), and his sister is administering his estate. My uncle left no will, so the bulk of the estate should have gone straight to his wife, but the daughter (allegedly) decided to just write herself out a check.

[~Olive~]

I wouldn't begin to talk to my parents about their estate. It is not my business.

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by ~Olive~

I wouldn't begin to talk to my parents about their estate. It is not my business.

Actually, it is. At least it might be, and almost certainly will be if you are an only child. At the very least, there will be expenses related to a funeral and burial that the family will have to come up with very quickly and with little or no notice. Do you have enough money in an account to unexpectedly lay out $5,000 or more in those circumstances? My dad's funeral (about 10 years ago) was about $7,000. Fortunately, he put his childrens' names on several of his accounts so we could cover the expenses without having to wait until getting a lawyer and opening an estate through the court system.

Maybe your parents are still relatively young and this isn't a concern of yours right now. But accidents happen, as little as we want to think about them.

[Rachellelogram]

Originally Posted by cheatedbykids

Never in my wildest dreams would I think a child of mine would cheat their mother. Talk to you parents with an honest lawyer present and have it taped. what is also important is the executor of the will. A great deal of control there. Good luck!

How much back support did he owe you? You shouldn't have asked your kids for a portion of their money, you should have put it through as a separate claim against the estate. That way, you get paid before their inheritance is calculated.

Of course, this only applies if you had court-ordered support. I assume you did?

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Boyo Jim

Actually, it is. At least it might be, and almost certainly will be if you are an only child. At the very least, there will be expenses related to a funeral and burial that the family will have to come up with very quickly and with little or no notice. Do you have enough money in an account to unexpectedly lay out $5,000 or more in those circumstances? My dad's funeral (about 10 years ago) was about $7,000. Fortunately, he put his childrens' names on several of his accounts so we could cover the expenses without having to wait until getting a lawyer and opening an estate through the court system.

It would be better to have a lawyer prepare a power of attorney and bring a copy to the bank in advance. You'll still have the ability to control the account but you'll be on record as acting as your parent's legal agent, not a co-owner of the account. If you co-own the account you extend your personal liability, however small, to your parent's assets.

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

It would be better to have a lawyer prepare a power of attorney and bring a copy to the bank in advance. You'll still have the ability to control the account but you'll be on record as acting as your parent's legal agent, not a co-owner of the account. If you co-own the account you extend your personal liability, however small, to your parent's assets.

I'm sure there are lots of better ways to do it, but it was the only preparation my father was willing to make. He didn't leave a will. Neither did my uncle. My sister managed our dad's estate, and I managed my uncle's estate. We think it was probably easier to administer the estates without a will, as the law is crystal clear about how the assets are to be divvied up, and we didn't have to worry about fulfilling a bunch of bewildering stipulations. If you want to screw somebody among your heirs, or add someone or something to a list of recipients who wouldn't otherwise inherit, THEN you need a will.

[ioioio]

The way my siblings and I got the parents to make a will and set up POAs was that we all went to a lawyer at the same time, and we all had wills and POAs done. Sibling spouses were included as well. With everyone participating, it was easier than expected, and now it's done.

We also spent some time discussing advanced directives.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Boyo Jim

I'm sure there are lots of better ways to do it, but it was the only preparation my father was willing to make. He didn't leave a will. Neither did my uncle. My sister managed our dad's estate, and I managed my uncle's estate. We think it was probably easier to administer the estates without a will, as the law is crystal clear about how the assets are to be divvied up, and we didn't have to worry about fulfilling a bunch of bewildering stipulations. If you want to screw somebody among your heirs, or add someone or something to a list of recipients who wouldn't otherwise inherit, THEN you need a will.

I didn't mean to come off like I was lecturing you, especially since your father has already passed away. I just meant to share a best practice on something I don't think most would think of.

Kind of an amusing story - when I went off to college, my dad and I went to our bank and opened my first checking account. It was a joint account in both our names. It worked perfectly find until one day the state dept. of children and youth froze my checking account and took all my money and gave it to my mom.

My dad was in arrears on child support he owed my mom, ironically child support for me. They found MY money that I scrimped and saved for and took it, because from their point of view it was his money... his name was on the account.

[astro]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

I didn't mean to come off like I was lecturing you, especially since your father has already passed away. I just meant to share a best practice on something I don't think most would think of.

Kind of an amusing story - when I went off to college, my dad and I went to our bank and opened my first checking account. It was a joint account in both our names. It worked perfectly find until one day the state dept. of children and youth froze my checking account and took all my money and gave it to my mom.

My dad was in arrears on child support he owed my mom, ironically child support for me. They found MY money that I scrimped and saved for and took it, because from their point of view it was his money... his name was on the account.

So... did your mother give it back to you?

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

I didn't mean to come off like I was lecturing you, especially since your father has already passed away. I just meant to share a best practice on something I don't think most would think of.

Kind of an amusing story - when I went off to college, my dad and I went to our bank and opened my first checking account. It was a joint account in both our names. It worked perfectly find until one day the state dept. of children and youth froze my checking account and took all my money and gave it to my mom.

My dad was in arrears on child support he owed my mom, ironically child support for me. They found MY money that I scrimped and saved for and took it, because from their point of view it was his money... his name was on the account.

And I didn't mean to come off as if I thought you were lecturing me. Though maybe I could have used one at the time -- if either of us had known that could happen, probably neither of us would wanted both our names on the same accounts. Fortunately it all worked out -- except for the part about him dying.

And yeah, did your mom give the money back?

[astro]

Originally Posted by cheatedbykids

Quite recently my ex husband died. He was a dead beat dad, rarely saw my children. Not to mention left us with no money and did not pay support. The state and the IRS pursued him for money but didn't do it for years. Many years passed and my children grew into adulthood. I sacraficed so much to educate them, rare them and give all that I could with great financial risk to myself. Well you can imagine what happend at the time of my ex husband's death. The children were sole hiers. I asked them for a portion of the estate that I felt I was entitle to. Guess what I found out, a few of my children had a price to sell out their mother. Not only that, their excuse was that I didn't do that much or not enough.Talk about being slapped twice in the heart. Can you imagine that,the mother that gave them birth and never let them down was worth nothing. So my best advise is do not trust a family member who is evasive about the estate, file a suit and get a lawyer to keep everyone honest. I will never recover from this. Never in my wildest dreams would I think a child of mine would cheat their mother. Talk to you parents with an honest lawyer present and have it taped. what is also important is the executor of the will. A great deal of control there. Good luck!

Nobody cheated you out of anything. This fantasy that they did is all in your own head. No decent parent sacrifices for their children with the expectation that there is some kind of bill due at some point in the future.

The fact that you expected your kids to pony up out of their inheritance for what you feel you were shortchanged by your ex while raising is absurd. Literally absurd. Your sense of entitlement is astounding, and now you've broken your family into pieces over your grabbiness. You need to apologize to your kids for putting them on the spot with your awful guilt tripping.

[Rachellelogram]

Originally Posted by astro

Nobody cheated you out of anything. This fantasy that they did is all in your own head. No decent parent sacrifices for their children with the expectation that there is some kind of bill due at some point in the future.

The fact that you expected your kids to pony up out of their inheritance for what you feel you were shortchanged by your ex while raising is absurd. Literally absurd. Your sense of entitlement is astounding, and now you've broken your family into pieces over your grabbiness. You need to apologize to your kids for putting them on the spot with your awful guilt tripping.

Her attitude is pretty heinous, yes, but she IS owed back support before the kids get their inheritance. If she didn't get a lawyer, that's her fault though.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Boyo Jim

And yeah, did your mom give the money back?

Her lawyer had to get the children and youth dept to give it back, but yeah I got it back pretty quickly.

Coincident to cheatedbykids's concerns, I did eventually effectively pay off my own and my sibling's child support.

My mom had a judgement against my dad for back child support. My dad was sick and insolvent, but owned real estate that was not only worth a considerable amount but we had owned for a long time. It grew over time but the original piece of the farm has been in the family since the 1750s.

We wanted to transfer the property to us kids as advance estate planning. My mom was willing to go along and drop her lien in the interest of seeing her kids get to keep the property. Until it came out that my dad wanted to give my half sister an equal share long with me and my whole siblings, which upset my whole siblings and my mother.

So she backed out and said she wouldn't give up her lien unless he did his inheritance how she and my siblings wanted... 14 years after they were divorced. Legally she had every right to insist on her lien being paid off but she knew it was really putting me in a bind - basically legal extortion.

I don't like people pushing around my poor sick father so bought one of his houses from him at fair value and we used the cash to pay off my child support. I got a house out of the deal, albeit one I would have inherited someday... so it wasn't all that terrible. It's a better story if I just say that I paid my own child support.

[astro]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

Her lawyer had to get the children and youth dept to give it back, but yeah I got it back pretty quickly.

Coincident to cheatedbykids's concerns, I did eventually effectively pay off my own and my sibling's child support.

My mom had a judgement against my dad for back child support. My dad was sick and insolvent, but owned real estate that was not only worth a considerable amount but we had owned for a long time. It grew over time but the original piece of the farm has been in the family since the 1750s.

We wanted to transfer the property to us kids as advance estate planning. My mom was willing to go along and drop her lien in the interest of seeing her kids get to keep the property. Until it came out that my dad wanted to give my half sister an equal share long with me and my whole siblings, which upset my whole siblings and my mother.

So she backed out and said she wouldn't give up her lien unless he did his inheritance how she and my siblings wanted... 14 years after they were divorced. Legally she had every right to insist on her lien being paid off but she knew it was really putting me in a bind - basically legal extortion.

I don't like people pushing around my poor sick father so bought one of his houses from him at fair value and we used the cash to pay off my child support. I got a house out of the deal, albeit one I would have inherited someday... so it wasn't all that terrible. It's a better story if I just say that I paid my own child support.

This is like a Republic serial!

So what did your dad ultimately do re the dispositions of his estate once the threat of the lien was lifted?

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Originally Posted by astro

This is like a Republic serial!

So what did your dad ultimately do re the dispositions of his estate once the threat of the lien was lifted?

After all was said and done he decided to exclude my little sister and now I control and manage the property for myself and my whole-siblings. There's no family besides us kids and he really didn`t even have friends so I tried really hard to be supportive even though I was clearly an interested party. By the time this happened my dad had mild dementia and in his prime he was a pushover.

He's still alive actually, but with severe dementia and usually doesn't recognize me. So I use the income from the properties to pay for his care and it's not much different than it was when we started.

It was a very unpleasant experience. The argument in favor of excluding my little sister was that she "didn't really help out with dad or the farm". Except that 1) none of my other siblings helped besides me either and 2) she was five at the time. At least my other siblings were adults and should've been helping.

aww... now I went and made myself sad about it all.

[6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast]

You only thing you're entitled to, rostfrei, is what is left to you (usually) in the Will of the remaining parent.

And don't kid yourself that you have a 'better' attitude to money than your sister - here you are procuring anonymous advice in regard to shoring up your future dead man's dough, when all you have to do is speak with your capable and functioning parents.

Thanks DrDeth. No truer words spoken.

[Nava]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

It would be better to have a lawyer prepare a power of attorney and bring a copy to the bank in advance. You'll still have the ability to control the account but you'll be on record as acting as your parent's legal agent, not a co-owner of the account. If you co-own the account you extend your personal liability, however small, to your parent's assets.

That depends on the location, like any other legal subject: I'm registered in my mother's accounts as a "sub-signatary", not co-signatary. This means I'm not liable for any debts, but I can freeze the accounts with only her CoD, rather than nobody having the ability to access the movements or freeze them until the whole inheritance process is finished. Location: Navarre, Spain.

cheatedbykids, that's not your heart, it's your wallet.

[Maastricht]

If the law is that clear about dividing liquid assets, maybe a will isn't necessary. Unless the parent wants to "reward"one kid more for extra care. But, as said upthread, that is better done while alive, for everyone's sake, and to pay less tax.

But aren't the meanest fights after a parents death about things? My mom and her sisters have quarreled their whole lives, and I'm sorry to have to say it, but my mom is the most self-centered and pettiest of the three sisters.

Grandma's antique clock after her death? Cause of the dirtiest fight I've witnessed outside a cage.
My grandmothers silver figurines? My aunt had taken them, and while visiting, my mom made such a scene that her brother-in-law picked her up by her collar and literally pushed her out the door.

Now that I write this down, I actually wonder if anything my grandmother had written down about who was to have what, could have prevented any of this ugliness. Maybe, as said upthread, screwed up sibling relationships will inevitably lead to screwed-up scenes after the parent's deaths.
So in hindsight, maybe what I regarded as my grandmothers passiveness in not wanting to arrange anything, was partly her knowing that it wouldn't do any good anyway.

[Nava]

Originally Posted by Maastricht

Now that I write this down, I actually wonder if anything my grandmother had written down about who was to have what, could have prevented any of this ugliness. Maybe, as said upthread, screwed up sibling relationships will inevitably lead to screwed-up scenes after the parent's deaths.
So in hindsight, maybe what I regarded as my grandmothers passiveness in not wanting to arrange anything, was partly her knowing that it wouldn't do any good anyway.

After her mother died, my aunt tried to grab everything she could, including some things which weren't even available because Grandma had gifted them in life. Any time someone refused her with clear arguments, she backed up real fast. One of the arguments was about some jewelry: traditionally that would have gone to my aunt as the only daughter, but it was jewelry from a great-aunt who was one of my uncle's godmother so he claimed it... if Grandma had bothered specify who was getting those particular pieces, or give them in life, the mess would have stopped as soon as it started (as it did with the trunk or the jewelry she gave to me). Every family's mileage will vary, of course.

[Maastricht]

Originally Posted by Nava

Any time someone refused her with clear arguments, she backed up real fast. .. if Grandma had bothered specify who was getting those particular pieces, or give them in life, the mess would have stopped as soon as it started.

By "backed up real fast"(I didn't know the expression)you mean that your aunt gave in, or that she came up with counter arguments why she should have it?

[Nava]

Gave in, no further fighting. Example:

"I understand you have grandfather's trunk"
"Yes, I do, why?"
"I'd like it."
"Well, your mother gave it to me and it was her father's. Would you like me to make a will and put you in it as its heir? Because over my dead body is about the only way anybody is getting it."
"Oh. No, sorry, I hadn't realized you valued it."
"Nah, I've dragged it across the Atlantic twice because I don't like it Pass the salad?"

ETA: I'm at home right now, so that poor, battered, 110ish-yo trunk is now about 90cm from me

[FairyChatMom]

Forty years ago, my paternal grandmother died, and to this day, I remember my dad commenting about the youngest of his 3 sisters who essentially ransacked her mother's possessions and took all the choice pieces. It was especially striking because she was the best off of the three sisters while the eldest was barely scraping by. I lost a lot of respect for that aunt because of her greed.

My husband and I had to push his folks hard to make wills. It's not that they're wealthy by any means, but my father in law has made some beautiful furniture over the years and we didn't want to see the three brothers fighting over who got what. There is also concern about the youngest brother who has severe enough mental issues that he can't live alone and would speed thru any inheritance he got with no thought of the future. Anyway, we know they have wills and we know the middle brother is the executor. So that's great.

My dad has been gone 10 years, and my mom is 78. Because Dad was a planner, they both had wills and I do know my brother is Mom's executor. I think the plan for allocating personal items is a round-robin of taking turns picking things. And Mom has been giving things away for years, partly to declutter, partly, I'm sure, to preclude estate battles. Honestly, I can't think of any things of hers that I really want, altho there's one small painting that all 5 of us would like to have and I have no hope of getting it. My brother is a good and honest man, so I'm not at all worried about anything with him as executor.

And my husband and I have only one child - easy-peasy.

[Cicero]

BTW, I see Nava referred to the OP- this thread is a zombie (just in case posters weren't aware).

I even see Featherlou who now goes by a different name. I suppose the name doesn't change in quotes.

[Manda JO]

Originally Posted by astro

Nobody cheated you out of anything. This fantasy that they did is all in your own head. No decent parent sacrifices for their children with the expectation that there is some kind of bill due at some point in the future.

The fact that you expected your kids to pony up out of their inheritance for what you feel you were shortchanged by your ex while raising is absurd. Literally absurd. Your sense of entitlement is astounding, and now you've broken your family into pieces over your grabbiness. You need to apologize to your kids for putting them on the spot with your awful guilt tripping.

I think it depends on their relative circumstances today. If the kids are doing well because of college educations that their mom paid for and she has zero assets and is now living hand-to-mouth on nothing but a meager social security check, and they took their inheritance and bought a boat, then yes, I think it'd be ok to feel outraged. But if everyone is in a"basic needs comfortably met" place and the kids wanted to put the inheritance towards their own kids' college funds or something, then the mom's off base. I mean, our kids don't owe us anything for their care, but we do have an obligation to our parents.

ETA: If it's "real money" and the mom is really poor, then I think the right thing to do would be to keep it in whatever form it is in, let mom have the interest while she is alive, and then after her death, divide it among the siblings.

[Nava]

Originally Posted by Cicero

BTW, I see Nava referred to the OP- this thread is a zombie (just in case posters weren't aware).

No I didn't: I referred to the re-OP. No references to the original OP.

[Cicero]

Apologies- wrong poster. It was 6Impossiblethingsbeforebreakfast.

(You just wanted to make me type that didn't you?)

[Lynn Bodoni]

About a year and a half ago, my father looked over his will, made sure everything was OK, and got my mother's will taken care of as well. She has Alzheimer's. He died in December.

My brother and sister and I have been agreeable when it's come to picking out stuff from the family home...our mother will never be able to live on her own, so we are just taking the sentimental stuff, no drama. When Mama was in her right mind, more or less, she gave both my sister and me various pieces of jewelry, and our brother got a car. However, my sister and I have swapped some of the jewelry, as Sissy's birthstone is diamond, and mine is sapphire. Sissy loves diamonds, and Mama gave me her first engagement ring which had 7 diamonds in it, and Sissy got a couple of rings with blue topazes in them and a matching bracelet. I gave Sissy the ring with the diamonds, and the story behind it, and she gave me the blue topaz set. The topazes aren't sapphires, but I like them better than diamonds.

It's POSSIBLE to be civil. However, my mother and her sisters got into several very nasty fights when their parents died, mostly because my grandmother would promise each sister that she was getting the silver, or the grandfather clock, or whatever. Grandma delighted in setting one sister against the others, even in her later years. So I've seen some nasty fights, too.

[SmellMyWort]

Originally Posted by cheatedbykids

Quite recently my ex husband died. He was a dead beat dad, rarely saw my children. Not to mention left us with no money and did not pay support. The state and the IRS pursued him for money but didn't do it for years. Many years passed and my children grew into adulthood. I sacraficed so much to educate them, rare them and give all that I could with great financial risk to myself. Well you can imagine what happend at the time of my ex husband's death. The children were sole hiers. I asked them for a portion of the estate that I felt I was entitle to. Guess what I found out, a few of my children had a price to sell out their mother. Not only that, their excuse was that I didn't do that much or not enough.Talk about being slapped twice in the heart. Can you imagine that,the mother that gave them birth and never let them down was worth nothing. So my best advise is do not trust a family member who is evasive about the estate, file a suit and get a lawyer to keep everyone honest. I will never recover from this. Never in my wildest dreams would I think a child of mine would cheat their mother. Talk to you parents with an honest lawyer present and have it taped. what is also important is the executor of the will. A great deal of control there. Good luck!

Seems like a tacky request, to me. Did you at least wait until after the funeral to start begging your kids for money?

[Dendarii Dame]

Just another post to agree that wills don't always prevent family fights. I used to teach at a school with two cousins who were best friends. Then a grandparent died, and although there was a will, neither set of the cousins' parents considered it fair. So both sets of parents told the school that the teachers were to make sure that their daughters never spoke to each other while they were on school property. The principal said, "Oh, sure, absolutely we'll comply with that." And the parents believed him, which is the only funny part of this story.

I also remember a Judge Judy or People's Court years back in which two siblings were fighting over a pair of lamps which hadn't been mentioned in their mother's will. The judge asked if they couldn't just each take one. Both refused.

[Omar Little]

Originally Posted by Robot Arm

If you wanted alimony or child support from your ex-husband, you should have pursued it while you were alive.

I wasn't aware that cheatedbykids was posting from the grave. If that's the case it is very difficult to find an attorney that will take your case.

[Kimballkid]

Hey zombies need legal representation too!!

[ratatoskK]

I haven't read all the replies, but I agree that you should gently raise the subject with your parents and mention what your sister said. Make it clear to them that whatever THEY decide is fine (i.e. you are not trying to start trouble or ask for money) as long as it's documented.

Also, FYI, I was involved (third-hand) with something where the grandfather died and left things to his wife. She had never managed money and eventually became somewhat loopy (although we didn't realize how loopy until she passed away), and another relative convinced her to cut my rather out of the will. This could have been avoided had my grandfather put everything in a trust instead of directly to his wife.

[Robot Arm]

Originally Posted by Omar Little

I wasn't aware that cheatedbykids was posting from the grave. If that's the case it is very difficult to find an attorney that will take your case.

Yeah, I saw that when I came back to the thread, but it was too late to edit. Was hoping it would go unnoticed.

But someone is reading my posts. Hooray!

[ioioio]

This thread was opened by rostfrei in January 2008. rostrei hasn't logged on since March 2012. So, at this point, there's little reason to advise on the sister issue.

The thread was resurrected by cheatedbykids on 08/16/2012, also her registration date.

[6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Apologies- wrong poster. It was 6Impossiblethingsbeforebreakfast.

(You just wanted to make me type that didn't you?)

and

I thought cheatedbykids posts were just the whiney ones...!

[Curiosity Kills Her]

Originally Posted by Robot Arm

Yeah, I saw that when I came back to the thread, but it was too late to edit. Was hoping it would go unnoticed.

But someone is reading my posts. Hooray!

I think most of us were just pretending we didn't see the error to help you save face. But since Omar Little has called you out...

*POINTS*

[phxjcc]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

It would be better to have a lawyer prepare a power of attorney and bring a copy to the bank in advance. You'll still have the ability to control the account but you'll be on record as acting as your parent's legal agent, not a co-owner of the account. If you co-own the account you extend your personal liability, however small, to your parent's assets.

Fuzzy:
I have heard this argument made by family lawyers to me repeatedly. To me, personally, it matters as I am at the end of a bloodline with one surviving parent and no surviving spouses nor children nor surviving relatives of any kind whatsoever [well maybe 3rd cousins (parent's brother's's great-grandchildren) that I don't know about].

This is just the de facto way it has been done in my family for 2 generations. No will, just put the heir's name on the accounts. Changing the ways of an 89 YO parent is going to be extremely difficult--turtles through peanut butter difficult.

So is having ones name on the assets of one's parent's financial assets REALLY that big of a liability?

Thank you.

[doreen]

Originally Posted by phxjcc

Fuzzy:
I have heard this argument made by family lawyers to me repeatedly. To me, personally, it matters as I am at the end of a bloodline with one surviving parent and no surviving spouses nor children nor surviving relatives of any kind whatsoever [well maybe 3rd cousins (parent's brother's's great-grandchildren) that I don't know about].

This is just the de facto way it has been done in my family for 2 generations. No will, just put the heir's name on the accounts. Changing the ways of an 89 YO parent is going to be extremely difficult--turtles through peanut butter difficult.

So is having ones name on the assets of one's parent's financial assets REALLY that big of a liability?

Having your name on the account doesn't create a liability to you. What Fuzzy Dunlop means is that if you owe someone money and they obtain a judgement against you, that person can attach your parent's account if you are a co-owner , and therefore your parent's assets are exposed to your liability.It's the reverse of what Fuzzy posted earlier:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop
My dad was in arrears on child support he owed my mom, ironically child support for me. They found MY money that I scrimped and saved for and took it, because from their point of view it was his money... his name was on the account.

If you're talking about a small account so you can handle your parent's day to day expenses for them, that's one thing. Adding your name as co-owner to accounts containing the bulk of their assets is another.

[LurkerInNJ]

Originally Posted by cheatedbykids

Never in my wildest dreams would I think a child of mine would cheat their mother.

The estate owed the debt. Every so often you have to reaffirm a judgment with the state, perhaps every 20 years or so. A local lawyer could have advised you on how to protect your interest. Debts are taken from an estate first, then whatever is left is distributed to the heirs.

Yes, he should have paid you child support all those years and it was very very very wrong of him not to do so, but why on earth did you not take the steps necessary to protect your future interests? And now your failure to act is your children's fault???

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Originally Posted by doreen

Having your name on the account doesn't create a liability to you. What Fuzzy Dunlop means is that if you owe someone money and they obtain a judgement against you, that person can attach your parent's account if you are a co-owner , and therefore your parent's assets are exposed to your liability.It's the reverse of what Fuzzy posted earlier:

Yes my example was definitely the opposite of what I was originally posting about. I didn't have any actual examples of times I screwed over my parents.

Originally Posted by doreen

If you're talking about a small account so you can handle your parent's day to day expenses for them, that's one thing. Adding your name as co-owner to accounts containing the bulk of their assets is another.

I agree that having your name on a checking account with a small balance isn't that big a deal. I guess I'm just very fastidious. I like that every single thing I do is in Fuzzy Dunlop's Dad's name and signed for by Fuzzy Dunlop under power of attorney.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

I made my will, & left everything to charity, & had an old friend as executor.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Originally Posted by phxjcc

Fuzzy:
I have heard this argument made by family lawyers to me repeatedly. To me, personally, it matters as I am at the end of a bloodline with one surviving parent and no surviving spouses nor children nor surviving relatives of any kind whatsoever [well maybe 3rd cousins (parent's brother's's great-grandchildren) that I don't know about].

This is just the de facto way it has been done in my family for 2 generations. No will, just put the heir's name on the accounts. Changing the ways of an 89 YO parent is going to be extremely difficult--turtles through peanut butter difficult.

I talk to other people with the "just put him on it" approach to estate planning and what makes me nervous is I have no idea what it actually means to be put on something.

I understand that if I inherit assets from an estate there's a large estate tax exclusion (that changes year to year). I understand that if someone gives me an asset there's a annual gift tax exclusion before the giver is subject to gift tax. But I have no idea what it means to be "put on" something.

And nobody ever seems to say "let's put him on it and then tell our accountant so he can prepare our taxes properly" It's always "let's put him on and not even consider if there are tax consequences."

[phxjcc]

Thank you for your answer.

[jackdavinci]

I think it's odd that this thread seems to be assuming they will die at the same time.

Another important consideration - convince them to have a premeet with a funeral home to take care of all the arrangements and costs involved with a funeral and grave. These things are ridiculously expensive.

They should also plan for things like end of life health costs and DNR sorts of decisions.

[ceilidh]

An acquaintance of mine is dealing with a situation where his sister took 3/4 of the estate after their parents' death instead of 1/3 that the will said she should have. The amount of money she took that she wasn't supposed to was around a quarter of a million dollars. Her brothers talked to a lawyer, and now the sister is going to go to jail for awhile, and her house will be sold to help pay back the money she took.

Basically, I think you need to keep an eye on things, and if when your parents pass away it looks fishy, go to a lawyer for help. I really hope that everything goes well for you.

[perfectparanoia]

It's a running joke in our family that my parents are supposed to die with just enough money to bury them. They have a will and we are working on their funeral arrangements (they have a plot but the cemetary has changed hands so much, we are having trouble tracking them down).

I still remember when my grandpa died. My grandmother was still alive and yet all my cousins were asking what their share was. Ummm, the money goes to grandma, you idiots.

Luckily, my grandparents knew how greedy some in the family were. They made sure to give away anything with real or sentimental value before they were gone.

I didn't get any money when they passed away but even if I had gotten everything, I would have given it all back just to have them still here.

[GreenElf]

Originally Posted by Zebra

Take your mom to see a performance of King Lear.

[Ellen Cherry]

Originally Posted by Muffin

While you are at it, see if your parents will draw up Powers of Attorney that at least put you on jointly with your sister, so that she can not transfer assets over to herself in you parent's later years.

This happens. In-town sibling with POA and suddenly there are no CDs that Mom had put in each kid's name. Siblings can suck when it comes to money. Some people seem to equate it with love.