Overseas Manual Transmissions

[scdad]

Do right-hand drive cars with manual transmissions have first gear on the left side, or is it reversed?

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by scdad

Do right-hand drive cars with manual transmissions have first gear on the left side, or is it reversed?

In all manual transmission cars I have seen in both the United States (left-hand drive) and South Africa (right-hand drive) first gear has been on the left hand side. Likewise the clutch, brake and accelerator pedals are in the same order.

I would imagine that in many cases the components of left-hand drive and right-hand drive versions of a car model are made in the same factory, so I guess they would want to make only one version of something if they could.

Also, it would be nightmarish to drivers who move around for all this to be different!

[Mangetout]

I don't live overseas (we call it 'here'). UK. Driving seat on the right side of the vehicle. First gear forward and to the left.

[GaryM]

I drove a manual shift Mini in England back in 1980 and I remember the shift pattern was same as most US cars of the time. First was Left and Back. This was a three speed.

[Mangetout]

BTW, I always find the terms right and left hand drive confusing. I sit on the right side of the car, but drive on the left side of the road.

[R. P. McMurphy]

When you switch to a car that drives on the opposite side of what you are used to the problem isn't in the layout of the gears. The problem is that you have to shift with a hand that isn't used to shifting. There is a steep learning curve.

[scdad]

Thanks guys. I can imagine it would be difficult to learn how to shift with the left hand when the right's been doing it, but was just curious.

[Telemark]

Every time I needed to downshift I ended up rolling down the drivers window.

[Flander]

Originally Posted by scdad

Thanks guys. I can imagine it would be difficult to learn how to shift with the left hand when the right's been doing it, but was just curious.

Correct. Years ago when I visited Auckland, New Zealand (I'm from the US) I drove around in a rental. Let me tell you, when you get on the highway and need to down shift to get into traffic ("like a zipper!"), grabbing the door handle is NOT the correct thing to do!

[Bill Door]

Originally Posted by Telemark

Every time I needed to downshift I ended up rolling down the drivers window.

And every time I needed to use my directional signals I turned on the windshield wipers.

[Gus Gusterson]

Originally Posted by Spartydog

When you switch to a car that drives on the opposite side of what you are used to the problem isn't in the layout of the gears. The problem is that you have to shift with a hand that isn't used to shifting. There is a steep learning curve.

I didn't find that to be the case, and neither have any of the Americans I know who have driven in Ireland or the UK. Everyone adjusted quickly to using their left hand to shift. What is difficult for people to get used to is making turns properly when there are no cars on the road to remind them which lane they should be turning into. Even that becomes easy if you put a moment's thought into it - you should always turn so that you (the driver) are closest to the center of the road. You can't go wrong with that rule.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by scdad

Thanks guys. I can imagine it would be difficult to learn how to shift with the left hand when the right's been doing it, but was just curious.

Yeah, it isn't easy. My wife, used to my somewhat clumsy shifting when borrowing her manual car, was surprised by how much better I was when we visited my country of birth, South Africa. It is where I drove a manual car every day for many years, and even though I hadn't been back for over two years it just came naturally.

I think I have gotten a little better here in the United States, but it took a long time.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by Gus Gusterson

I didn't find that to be the case, and neither have any of the Americans I know who have driven in Ireland or the UK. Everyone adjusted quickly to using their left hand to shift. What is difficult for people to get used to is making turns properly when there are no cars on the road to remind them which lane they should be turning into. Even that becomes easy if you put a moment's thought into it - you should always turn so that you (the driver) are closest to the center of the road. You can't go wrong with that rule.

I never found that an issue when I moved to the United States. There are usually a lot of visual clues that make lane choice intuitive. What took me a while to get used to was having all that car to the right of me. I always felt like I was sitting in the wrong place in the lane and wanted to overcompensate for that.

And I still sometimes twist myself into a pretzel trying to give tolls with the wrong hand!

[Gus Gusterson]

Originally Posted by Driver8

I never found that an issue when I moved to the United States. There are usually a lot of visual clues that make lane choice intuitive.

My experience has been exclusively in rural Ireland, where there are few road signs or lane markings. It's easy in places where you have cues but when you have to turn from one unmarked road to another you really have to think about it. My wife's lone attempt at it resulted in her making her first turn into the oncoming lane of traffic. I have been the sole driver ever since. And she's the Irish one!

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

I drive a right hand drive car in Canada, a left hand drive country. I find that at the beginning, I often uncousciously stray towards the centre of the road, although my terrified passengers are usually good enough to gently remind me when I get to close to the median. The shifting was no problem, but I did often turn on the wipers when trying to turn, and also, looking out of the driver side window (to the right) when trying to find the rear view mirror.

[Xema]

Originally Posted by Gus Gusterson

What is difficult for people to get used to is making turns properly when there are no cars on the road to remind them which lane they should be turning into.

Especially on umarked roads, as noted above.

But the toughest thing of all is to remember which is the driver's side when entering a parked car - you'll be entirely smooth on all other aspects of ambidextrous driving before you get good at this one.

you should always turn so that you (the driver) are closest to the center of the road. You can't go wrong with that rule.

Unless you're a Brit taking his car across the channel and into France. I have plenty of experience on both sides of the road, but this definitely seems bizzare to me.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Originally Posted by Gus Gusterson

I didn't find that to be the case, and neither have any of the Americans I know who have driven in Ireland or the UK. Everyone adjusted quickly to using their left hand to shift. What is difficult for people to get used to is making turns properly when there are no cars on the road to remind them which lane they should be turning into. Even that becomes easy if you put a moment's thought into it - you should always turn so that you (the driver) are closest to the center of the road. You can't go wrong with that rule.

Yes, lane changes are a challenge and take a lot of concentration. My post was geared toward the transmission issue. (Pun intended).

That first foray out of the airport and onto the highway is a real challenge. You're thinking about lanes but you realize that your left hand doesn't know how to shift. When you get off the main roads in Ireland they are so narrow that you feel it's a major accomplishment if you haven't sideswiped nearly everything.

[MarcusF]

As a Brit who has driven rental cars in both Europe and the States I've not had much trouble with the controls. Naturally the car in the States was an automatic - not something I'm used to but no great problem. The various cars I've driven in Europe have all been manuals but I don't remember having problems changing gear with my right hand.

My experience is that remembering to drive on the "wrong" side of the road is ok if you concentrate or if there are plenty of other cars about - the problem comes after couple of days when you think you're getting used to it and you relax. Then it is all too easy to forget when turning right onto a quiet road or just pulling out from a parking place. Urgent yelling from passengers normally wakes me up.

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by Xema

Unless you're a Brit taking his car across the channel and into France. I have plenty of experience on both sides of the road, but this definitely seems bizzare to me.

Having had numerous near-misses with foreign lorries attempting to overtake while I'm passing them myself, the larger blind spot of the passenger side seems to be the single biggest problem.

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by MarcusF

Then it is all too easy to forget when turning right onto a quiet road

I've also had a near-miss head-on with a German car who'd made such an error.

[Rayne Man]

Originally Posted by GorillaMan

I've also had a near-miss head-on with a German car who'd made such an error.

There was a case like this a few years ago near RAF Mildenhall. An American serviceman (I think he was a chaplain) had driven all the way up from Heathrow with no bother. He then called into a petrol station to ask directions to the base. When he drove out of the service station he forgot which side of the road he should be driving on. Coming the other way was a National Express coach which had to swerve off the road, resulting in the death of one passenger on the coach.

[GorillaMan]

It wouldn't be the only case like that involving American forces, unfortunately. Especially once you get onto rural roads, as around the Mildenhall & Lakenheath areas, it would be very easy to stray to the right. There was also a case in the local news not long ago of a drunk lorry driver who set off the wrong way down the A14, head-on into the fast lane Thankfully the police stopped him before anyone died.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Just FTR, in the Mk I and II Ford GT40 the gearstick was on the right-hand door sill - so all you people complaining about shifting with the wrong hand, buy a GT40.

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

Just FTR, in the Mk I and II Ford GT40 the gearstick was on the right-hand door sill - so all you people complaining about shifting with the wrong hand, buy a GT40.

Or maybe try requesting one from Hertz

[Rick]

I've driven several RHD cars over the years here in the states.
I find the hardest part is pulling out of a parallel parking spot when you are next to the curb. If the car has the outside rear view mirror mounted way out on the front fender it is double hard.
It requires a bit of a leap of faith.

[GorillaMan]

Pulling out of a parking space in such a way is harder, I'll agree, but it's not really that bad. No different to if there's parking on both sides of a one-way street, for example.

[Si Amigo]

The bitch is trying to find an rental automatic in the UK without having to pay almost half again the price of a manual. Why is that? You would think that rentals would be automatics like in the states to on order to minimize confusing the idiots. I guess it must have to with the price of gas over there and the better milage you get with a manual.

[Mr. Slant]

Si Amigo:
It's just a market segmentation thing based on consumer preferences there.
In the UK, automatic=rich guy car

A UK buyer has trouble finding an inexpensive vehicle with an automatic, for the same reason that a US buyer will have trouble getting a convertible passenger car with cloth seats and manual windows.

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Slant

A UK buyer has trouble finding an inexpensive vehicle with an automatic

My first car was a 1-litre Nissan Micra, with an automatic transmisson. Just checked, and the list price for the cheapest modern automatic Micra is only £1000 over the most basic model. And it's only slightly more with the Vauxhall Corsa. In both cases, the main cost isn't the transmission, but the upgrade from the puny engine in the cheapest option.

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

The Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky can be had with manual windows. What UK market mass produced convertible comes with manual windows?

[Ximenean]

Originally Posted by Mr. Slant

In the UK, automatic=rich guy car.

In the UK, automatic = Granny car, whether that's fair or not. But it's true that automatic is also preferred on big luxury cars, especially Mercs. Not sure why that is. Perhaps because when they're that big you can't expect them to be "driver's cars", so you might as well go for coddling options like automatic transmissions.

[LouisB]

I remember when standard transmission American cars had the shift handle mounted on the steering column; was that ever the practice in Europe? If so, on what side of the column was the handle mounted?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by LouisB

I remember when standard transmission American cars had the shift handle mounted on the steering column; was that ever the practice in Europe? If so, on what side of the column was the handle mounted?

I only recall one example, a Renault from years ago, possibly a Renault 9?
I can't speak for Europe, but it's not common here.

[Yeah]

Originally Posted by LouisB

I remember when standard transmission American cars had the shift handle mounted on the steering column; was that ever the practice in Europe? If so, on what side of the column was the handle mounted?

Yes. That was the practice in Europe. I used to drive a ~1960 Vauxhall Victor with, IIRC, 3 on the column and a 1962 Mercedes 220S with, IIRC 4 on the column. They were all (including the Vauxhall) left-hand drive and the shift lever was on the right of the column. (Then of course there is the Citroen 2CV with 3 or 4 in the dash [to the right of the column on left-had drive models]).

[Caractacus Pott]

I've had no problem getting used to shifting with the other hand, with roundabouts in general, or figuring out which side of the road I'm supposed to be on. My problem is the radio volume control! In the rental cars I've had (Ford and Volkswagen), the volume control is wayyyy over to the left. Perfect for American vehicles but a far stretch from the right hand seat. Waaaaaah!

[LouisB]

Originally Posted by LouisB

I remember when standard transmission American cars had the shift handle mounted on the steering column; was that ever the practice in Europe? If so, on what side of the column was the handle mounted?

I suppose I should have limited my question to cars produced in countries where people habitually drive on the wrong side (just joking) of the road. Like England and Japan.

My father once bought a Renault Dauphin(sp?) that had the shift on the right hand side of the column but it was left hand drive, suitable for the US. A friend had a Peugeot set up the same way.

When I was a teenager, there was a brief fad that called for the transmission lever to be relocated to the left side of the steering column; it wasn't that hard to do but the shifting pattern was reversed. Getting used to that did cause a few problems.

[ulpilotrmh]

Originally Posted by Gus Gusterson

I didn't find that to be the case, and neither have any of the Americans I know who have driven in Ireland or the UK. Everyone adjusted quickly to using their left hand to shift. What is difficult for people to get used to is making turns properly when there are no cars on the road to remind them which lane they should be turning into. Even that becomes easy if you put a moment's thought into it - you should always turn so that you (the driver) are closest to the center of the road. You can't go wrong with that rule.

In 2003, four of us spent a month in england driving a Vauxhall with a manual transmission. The shift pattern was the same as all of were used to and learning to shift left handed wasn't a problem for any of us. The thing that was somewhat troublesome was getting used to making proper turns in traffic. By the way, we all loved the "Roundabouts." They really keep the traffic moving. Might be something for our traffic engineers to look into. They sure eliminate a lot of traffic signals.

[Myglaren]

I've done the reverse, learned to drive in the UK and then moved to Sweden (after the changeover, although I was there just prior to that).
Never a problem.

[Andy]

Similarly to Myglaren, I drove in the US and Canada after having learnt in the UK with amazing ease. I thought it'd be difficult, but it really wasn't. Occasionally I've encountered problems with identifying the correct positioning to left turn across traffic into a large junction and sometimes find myself driving a little in the ditch and have to correct.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Originally Posted by Andy

Similarly to Myglaren, I drove in the US and Canada after having learnt in the UK with amazing ease. I thought it'd be difficult, but it really wasn't. Occasionally I've encountered problems with identifying the correct positioning to left turn across traffic into a large junction and sometimes find myself driving a little in the ditch and have to correct.

Take into account that, on balance, the roads in North America are much wider, better marked and have better signals and signs than roads in the British Isles. North American roads (because they were built much later) are mostly built for cars, they are not paved trails and cow paths. This is even true when you compare the Eastern US to the Western US.

The transition from Britain to the US is bound to be better than a US driver taking on someplace like Ireland or Wales.

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by Spartydog

better marked and have better signals and signs

It's just a matter of what you're familiar with. I find the verbose signage in America far less clear than the principally symbolic systems of Britain and elsewhere.