What not to wear

[blinkingblinking]

Why don't many women know what to wear? AFAIK women spend a lot of time discussing clothes.
Link

[Huerta88]

Originally Posted by blinkingblinking

Why don't many women know what to wear? AFAIK women spend a lot of time discussing clothes.
Link

Remember that that show is predicated on the premise of having London fashionistas apply their own particularized definition of "what to wear" to women who don't travel in those same circles. This "prescriptive" view of fashion is certainly prevalent, but that does not mean that the presenters' views are literally indicative of a one single "right" way to dress. However, there will always be an audience for shows, magazines, etc. that "tell" women how to: dress; use makeup; lose weight; get a man. Women seem to like to be told what to do (even when it's phrased in terms of "you're doing it all wrong!").

The times I've flicked by that, the women under the microscope often started out wearing stuff that seemed pretty practical and appropriate to their daily chores and milieu (let's say being a garden-mad mum of three in the Midlands). Which would make it inappropriate for jetting off to Tuscany or lunch at the Ivy (the hostesses' more likely reference points). Or else they would be someone who's put on weight and hasn't quite figured out how to conceal it (because fashion tips for fat folk aren't as glam as the latest news from the runway).

Finally, we can all agree that makeover shows of every kind seem to have a built-in audience. You can't have an "after" without a much-derided "before."

[Gaudere]

[Moderator Hat ON]

I think this will do better in Cafe Society.

[Moderator Hat OFF]

[tremorviolet]

Not all women spend a lot of time thinking about clothes and the ones that do, generall don't wind up on the show. Many women don't know how to wear clothes that flatter their body type. A short waisted person with long, lean legs shouldn't wear the exact same clothes as a person with a long torso and short legs. Plus, a lot of women get stuck in a rut, pulling on the same old sweat pants and t-shirt everyday when grabbing a good pair of jeans and a nice casual top would be just as comfortable and lot more flattering. Or they keep wearing the same tapered jeans they loved in high school even though it's 20 years later.

The UK What Not to Wear was excellent at teaching women what to wear for their body types and I thought was much more practical. The US version tends to get stuck in the same old rut of boot cut jeans, a camisole with a jacket and gets kind of boring. But it's always interesting to see just how much better people can look if they wear clothes that fit and flatter their figures.

[Dung Beetle]

I watch the American show, although I find much of it tedious. At the beginning, I get to say, "Ew, she's going out of the house in that?" Then there's the part where the poor woman is given five thousand dollars, that's nice. Then Stacy and Clinton say funny things about all her clothes while they throw them out, and the woman gets a chance to explain herself…interesting. Then the painful, horrible shopping process, ugh! This is the part I'm likely to skip. But then there's the best part: The lady gets a haircut and some makeup and turns out looking a lot better than you'd think she could. Then she goes back to show Stacy and Clinton and all her friends…but I've wandered away by then.

I can't say it's changed anything about the way I dress, but it's nice to see that it's (theoretically) possible to make a big change for the better. Plus, I really like Clinton.

[shy guy]

I watch (the American version of) this show all the time.

Something I like about it is that the women on the show are generally chosen because the way they dress is interfering with or incompatible with their career. You get a lot of women who didn't see anything wrong with wearing sweatpants or extremely revealing clothing to their office jobs.

The hosts really do know what they're talking about, and they're good at diffusing the whining that you get out of some of their "projects." I do agree, though, that they tend to recommend the same types of things for everybody.

Plus, Clinton is nice to look at.

[gigi]

I watch the American version. I used to hate the criticism but they've either gotten gentler or I've gotten used to it. I like the rapport between Stacey and Clinton. I think it is cool that the women (and occasional men) do seem to grow emotionally when they are given the chance to focus on themselves and think about how they feel and want to be perceived.

I am not big on shopping or clothes either but it's interesting how symbolic it can be for these folks.

That said, if I never hear "you can always wear a cami under it" again it will be too soon.

[teela brown]

I used to watch the British version, and once I got over the snark factor I liked the show and found it to be full of useful wardrobe advice. I've changed my clothing shopping habits and things have improved as a result.

Having said that, I thought the Brit version rather goes the "pub-tart" route a bit. Some of the outfits they push the chubby women towards show a lot more tit than I would want to show, particularly at work.

[descamisado]

Originally Posted by shy guy

I watch (the American version of) this show all the time.

Something I like about it is that the women on the show are generally chosen because the way they dress is interfering with or incompatible with their career. You get a lot of women who didn't see anything wrong with wearing sweatpants or extremely revealing clothing to their office jobs.

The hosts really do know what they're talking about, and they're good at diffusing the whining that you get out of some of their "projects." I do agree, though, that they tend to recommend the same types of things for everybody.

Plus, Clinton is nice to look at.

I watch this show and usually end up saying "Wow!" out loud at how pretty the women turn out to be. The clothes choices are pretty good too. I think they are really trying to pound home the idea of how to build a basic wardrobe that is versatile but quality and stylish. Then they point out how to tweak it.

I'm a guy and I really wish they would do this show for men -- I would nominate myself. I used to dress really well then, over the years, between developing a big shopping phobia and just not caring, I've become a total slob. I have basically 3 pairs of work pants (I work in really casual office environments) and 2 pair of work shoes (one hurts my toes).

Help!

Did anyone see Clint's PBS special, where he's shown going through the stress of renovating his CT vacation home? It was pretty good and I like the way he threw in a makeover for the the contractor, the stonemason and his dad (who helped with the work) at the end.

[SmartAleq]

Originally Posted by 5-4-Fighting

I'm a guy and I really wish they would do this show for men -- I would nominate myself. I used to dress really well then, over the years, between developing a big shopping phobia and just not caring, I've become a total slob. I have basically 3 pairs of work pants (I work in really casual office environments) and 2 pair of work shoes (one hurts my toes).

Help!

Although the show is skewed heavily toward women, they have done some amazing makeovers of men before--it's all in getting someone to nominate you. Maybe a friend could be encouraged to send some pics of you to the show's web site and see if they can get you on the show...

We'd all watch it and cheer!

[Sage Rat]

Pretty much, anyone who dresses poorly, is doing so for one of the following reasons:

1) Popular fashion tends to be unflattering unless you have a perfect body.
2) Stopped caring at some point.
3) Lying to themselves about their real age or body type.
4) Truly, no fashion sense or knowledge.

#4 is actually decently rare, though. Most people fall into one of the first three groups.

[PunditLisa]

My biggest gripe is that they make the participant throw away all their old clothes. Yes, they give them $5 grand but then they take them to clothiers where it'll cost $500 for one outfit. That doesn't go very far, especially considering they've thrown away their knock around clothes in addition to everything else.

I appreciate that London gives them pointers on how to dress. But I'd like an acknowledgement that real people wear sweats some of the time.

And it's okay.

[Hello Again]

Originally Posted by 5-4-Fighting

I'm a guy and I really wish they would do this show for men -- I would nominate myself. I used to dress really well then, over the years, between developing a big shopping phobia and just not caring, I've become a total slob. I have basically 3 pairs of work pants (I work in really casual office environments) and 2 pair of work shoes (one hurts my toes).

They had this; it was called "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." And the contestants would get loads of cool loot.

[descamisado]

Originally Posted by Hello Again

They had this; it was called "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." And the contestants would get loads of cool loot.

Thanks, SmartAleq, I didn't know that What Not To Wear had featured men.

I have never seen a moment of Queer Eye; it pandered to stereotyes too much for me (the ads I've seen).

[tremorviolet]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

1) Popular fashion tends to be unflattering unless you have a perfect body.

I'd disagree with this. Certain fashions tend to be difficult for non-model types to wear but there are always alternatives that are flattering. (for instance, that loose, baby-doll silhouette that's been so popular for the last couple of years looks horrible on me but I can still find tops that flatter me) That's what the show is teaching people, how to pick clothes that flatter and so look fashionable.

5-4-Fighting, they used to feature the occasional man on WWNTW but they haven't in several years. I think there still may be some before and after examples on the website tho'.

Dressing well is like anything else: if you want to get good at it, you need to work at it. Read up on how things should fit and what to look for in clothing quality. Peruse the occasional magazine to see what fits look current. If you like someone's style, take note of what they're wearing and look for similar things to try in stores. Pay attention to what's in stores; if it's become impossible to find high waisted, tapered "mom" jeans, that's a pretty big hint that they're no longer in style. Acknowledge that fashions to change over time and what looked great ten years ago, probably doesn't any longer.

It's not rocket science but it's not completely effortless. Even the fashionistas who just roll out of bed, throw something on, and look fabulous, ppay a lot more attention to trends than they admit.

[SmartAleq]

Originally Posted by PunditLisa

My biggest gripe is that they make the participant throw away all their old clothes. Yes, they give them $5 grand but then they take them to clothiers where it'll cost $500 for one outfit. That doesn't go very far, especially considering they've thrown away their knock around clothes in addition to everything else.

I appreciate that London gives them pointers on how to dress. But I'd like an acknowledgement that real people wear sweats some of the time.

And it's okay.

First off, they don't always throw everything away--they let people keep stuff that's flattering and within the rules. They don't let them keep things that are a bad fit, bad colors and most especially stuff that's worn out and has holes and such. Secondly, the contestants shop in New York City--and I've seen people shopping in bizarre Goth supply stores and little hole in the wall shops as well as big clothiers--and at the end when they do the reveal the voiceover gives prices on items and they are by NO means always high ticket. I've seen people score twenty dollar silk tops, fifty dollar stylin' shoes--the main thing is that when they buy spendy items it's almost always a foundation piece that can anchor many different outfits. For example, a classic trench coat is worth spending a good sum on because it doesn't go out of style and quality matters in length of wear, same with good jeans or wool slacks or really nice classic boots.

Shoot, turn me loose with five grand in New York and I'd need to remodel my whole house to make room for all the stuff I'd have!

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by tremorviolet

I'd disagree with this. Certain fashions tend to be difficult for non-model types to wear but there are always alternatives that are flattering. (for instance, that loose, baby-doll silhouette that's been so popular for the last couple of years looks horrible on me but I can still find tops that flatter me) That's what the show is teaching people, how to pick clothes that flatter and so look fashionable.

There was an alternative to hip-huggers while it was in fashion?

Well I'll be darned....

[amarinth]

Originally Posted by tremorviolet

I'd disagree with this. Certain fashions tend to be difficult for non-model types to wear but there are always alternatives that are flattering. (for instance, that loose, baby-doll silhouette that's been so popular for the last couple of years looks horrible on me but I can still find tops that flatter me) That's what the show is teaching people, how to pick clothes that flatter and so look fashionable.

One of the things I don't like about the show is that they're very bad with certain types of bodies. They tend to do much better with women who are hourglassy or thin or both hourglassy & thin. Some of the "afters" with certain women have still had the same problem as their "befores" - the clothes just didn't fit and didn't look good (I saw one with an unalterable knit sweater that was obviously pinned on the makeover-ee's back. The show, with its experts failed to find clothing for her, I've no idea how the woman was supposed to have done so on her own.)

Still, most of the time, they do a good job of getting people out of clothes that don't fit and don't flatter them into clothes that do.

[aruvqan]

Actually the problem is in how the manufacturers do the clothing.

To be honest, to get a shirt to fit me correctly, I need to be able to pick my neck size, my torso size and my arm length. No womens clothing is shopped like that. They assume because I want to wear a 3x [because I am actually a 2x that likes the torso to be loose and not sausageskin tight] I have gorilla arms, so the sleeves are a good 2 inches too long.

Short of going to a tailor and having everything made, I wear mens polo shirts in short sleeve. I would rather have a polo shirt for a woman that has long sleeves and fits my arm lenght and neck diameter.

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by amarinth

One of the things I don't like about the show is that they're very bad with certain types of bodies. They tend to do much better with women who are hourglassy or thin or both hourglassy & thin.

In addition to what aruvqan said, you should also remember that the women pick out the clothes themselves. So if the clothes don't fit, that's the person's fault, not the hosts'.

[Bridget Burke]

Originally Posted by Huerta88

Remember that that show is predicated on the premise of having London fashionistas apply their own particularized definition of "what to wear" to women who don't travel in those same circles. This "prescriptive" view of fashion is certainly prevalent, but that does not mean that the presenters' views are literally indicative of a one single "right" way to dress. However, there will always be an audience for shows, magazines, etc. that "tell" women how to: dress; use makeup; lose weight; get a man. Women seem to like to be told what to do (even when it's phrased in terms of "you're doing it all wrong!").

The times I've flicked by that, the women under the microscope often started out wearing stuff that seemed pretty practical and appropriate to their daily chores and milieu (let's say being a garden-mad mum of three in the Midlands). Which would make it inappropriate for jetting off to Tuscany or lunch at the Ivy (the hostesses' more likely reference points). Or else they would be someone who's put on weight and hasn't quite figured out how to conceal it (because fashion tips for fat folk aren't as glam as the latest news from the runway).

Finally, we can all agree that makeover shows of every kind seem to have a built-in audience. You can't have an "after" without a much-derided "before."

If you'd ever watched the shows all the way through, you'd see that the women are never told to lose weight; they are shown clothes that fit the body shapes they actually have. Most of them are already wearing makeup, but they get some hints (off screen); you see a bit more on the US version. And many of the women already "have" a man.

The women are shown how to dress in styles flattering to them. Current fashions aren't the top concern--unless the women are stuck in the 80's, or in similar dire straits. And the wardrobes suit their lives--whether career oriented or at home. (Must all SAHM's look like slobs?)

I loved the original show, seen here on BBCamerica. The US version isn't bad.

"Women seem to like to be told what to do"--have you had success using this assumption in daily life?

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by blinkingblinking

Why don't many women know what to wear? AFAIK women spend a lot of time discussing clothes.

This woman doesn't.

I just don't "get" fashion, I never have. Despite two rounds of "charm school" in my formative years. I seem to have managed to collect an acceptable wardrobe, but frankly, if it weren't for my husband (who has much better fashion sense than I ever will - and he's a guy!) I'd probably commit fashion sins a couple times a month.

[tremorviolet]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

There was an alternative to hip-huggers while it was in fashion?

Well I'll be darned....

Well, yeah, there are variations that can look flattering. You don't need to wear pube exposing jeans, pick a nice rise that's a couple of inches below the belly button and that will flatter most people. Pants to the waist tend to emphasize belly pooches. And part of that is the whole point about how fashions change and you need to let your eye adjust to what's current. The waist high rise looked fine during the eighties, looked completely dated in the 00's and is gradually coming back in style.

Originally Posted by amarinth

One of the things I don't like about the show is that they're very bad with certain types of bodies. They tend to do much better with women who are hourglassy or thin or both hourglassy & thin. Some of the "afters" with certain women have still had the same problem as their "befores" - the clothes just didn't fit and didn't look good (I saw one with an unalterable knit sweater that was obviously pinned on the makeover-ee's back. The show, with its experts failed to find clothing for her, I've no idea how the woman was supposed to have done so on her own.)

Honestly, I agree with you. The American show is too concerned with just pushing the latest looks from their sponsors and isn't all that awesome with non-perfect bodies. Still, people almost always look better when they at least try to wear something nice and get out of the sweatpants.

Have you seen the UK show on BBC? I think they're much better at working with differnt body types. I remember one episode in particular with a short, stocky woman who was kinda squarish. She picked out an ordinary jean jacket and it looked meh. They put her in a jean jacket with a small peplum and very slightly puffed sleeves and suddenly she had a waist. It looked fabulous.

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by tremorviolet

Well, yeah, there are variations that can look flattering.

Not really. If you're flopping over the sides, you're going to flop over the sides regardless of the cut. Your only choices are to wear something baggy overtop that hides it (which was against the low-rider, whale tale look) or have a pant/shirt solution of relatively tough cloth that keeps a consistent line instead of wobblies--and you can't get that with low riders.

[Vihaga]

I would love to have someone tear through my closet and help me pick out new stuff; I just haven't had the time or wanted to spend the money to do it myself lately, as I've been really busy. I've also gained a few pounds over the last year, so I've been too down on myself to care about clothes shopping, and I'm just now coming around to caring about my appearance again.


I think the same thing has happened to the women on the show. They get busy, they don't go shopping, and they don't realize how bad their clothes look without a wake-up call. I know when I realize I need clothes and go on an outfit binge, my old clothes, which were perfectly acceptable a week before, don't even look wearable to me!

One thing I don't like about the American version (it's been too long since I've seen the British version for me to have an opinion) is their tendency to put everyone in high heels. I walk to work and around town frequently, and I just don't see how it's practical for most busy people to wear high heels all the time. I think my feet would fall off.

[tremorviolet]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

Not really. If you're flopping over the sides, you're going to flop over the sides regardless of the cut. Your only choices are to wear something baggy overtop that hides it (which was against the low-rider, whale tale look) or have a pant/shirt solution of relatively tough cloth that keeps a consistent line instead of wobblies--and you can't get that with low riders.

The low rider/whale tail look was popular with high school students/college kids but was never really considered "fashionable". A well cut pair of slightly lower rise jeans that fit (many women squeeze themselves into the absolutely smallest pair they can and subsquently get horrendous "muffin tops") with a shirt long enough to cover the tops can look flattering on most women. The high wasted jeans with a belt and a tucked in shirt doesn't currently look flattering 'cause styles have changed. And that's a lot of what the show does, shows people alternatives to their favorites.

I'm not gonna argue that it will look flattering on all women. If you're morbidly obese, your choices are limited. If you had a extra arm and leg, your choices would be limited too. But if you wear a modified version of what's in style, you at least look like you'd like to look stylish And, hey, no one says you have to worry about this. You can keep wearing the exact same clothing style you're comfortable with for the next twenty years. But there are options out there.

[blinkingblinking]

I did not really want to see a thread on how good that show was. I was just using it as an example. The newspaper here does a picture show every week of good and bad outfits that hollywood stars wear. What amazes me is how hollywood stars can make such basic mistakes.

[Bridget Burke]

Originally Posted by blinkingblinking

I did not really want to see a thread on how good that show was. I was just using it as an example. The newspaper here does a picture show every week of good and bad outfits that hollywood stars wear. What amazes me is how hollywood stars can make such basic mistakes.

Oh--so you're just wondering why women don't know what to wear! Despite your link to the show--you'd prefer not to talk about it.... Men have "starred" in a few episodes in both the UK & US versions of the show.

Hollywood stars? They can afford wardrobe counseling. Maybe they're spending that money on drugs? Or maybe the drugs make them not give a damn....

[Viridiana]

Originally Posted by 5-4-Fighting

Thanks, SmartAleq, I didn't know that What Not To Wear had featured men.

I have never seen a moment of Queer Eye; it pandered to stereotyes too much for me (the ads I've seen).

Do you mean it looked too fruity?
You might want to check it out, in any case; I'm not sure how the later seasons were, but when it first started I thought it was really fun - they talked about all sort of stuff like gadgets, interesting places to go, etc. If they'd left New York I woulld probably have watched more (it started getting redundant, and they started doing it to guys who didn't "need" it as much).
They were always shaving off people's beards, though, and then you noticed what weak chins they all had.

As for WNTW, I used to love that show (I love cleaning up/organizing things, and clothes) till it got too redundant as well. It does give some good tips about length and fit and there were some endearing makeoverees on there. I wished they'd clam up about cashmere, though.

[descamisado]

Originally Posted by Viridiana

Do you mean it looked too fruity? You might want to check it out, in any case; I'm not sure how the later seasons were, but when it first started I thought it was really fun - they talked about all sort of stuff like gadgets, interesting places to go, etc.

[Slight hijack]Yes. I'm a gay man and, though I'm not usually bothered by the more feminine types of displays, I'm unconmfortable with this image being packaged to cater to middle America' stereotypical assumptions of what all gay are like. There are gay who behave this way, but I've seen too much of it (from Soap to Will and Grace, etc..[/sh]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

Secondly, the contestants shop in New York City--and I've seen people shopping in bizarre Goth supply stores and little hole in the wall shops as well as big clothiers--and at the end when they do the reveal the voiceover gives prices on items and they are by NO means always high ticket. I've seen people score twenty dollar silk tops, fifty dollar stylin' shoes--the main thing is that when they buy spendy items it's almost always a foundation piece that can anchor many different outfits.

I like how they do that too. Actually, during the times have I have been a little current and active in dressing well, I've always worked with this concept. I have no problem mixing what would be an oversized item for a hip-hopper, but for me a normal size (when they can be found) with a more preppy, conservative or otherwise incongruence mix. It's a little harder to do as I get older though.

[descamisado]

Originally Posted by Vihaga

I think the same thing has happened to the women on the show. They get busy, they don't go shopping, and they don't realize how bad their clothes look without a wake-up call. I know when I realize I need clothes and go on an outfit binge, my old clothes, which were perfectly acceptable a week before, don't even look wearable to me!

Like I said, I used to care and dressed quite well. But now, since I'm unable to spend more than ten minutes in a store within running out the door and don't care that much, I just need a shock to wake me up and set me back on course.

[SmartAleq]

Originally Posted by 5-4-Fighting

Like I said, I used to care and dressed quite well. But now, since I'm unable to spend more than ten minutes in a store within running out the door and don't care that much, I just need a shock to wake me up and set me back on course.

Well, maybe you ought to start a "Straight Eye for the Queer Guy" thread, post some pics of you in various outfits and see if we can give you some pointers!

C'mon, it'll be FUN!!! :cue eeeevil laughter here:

[msmith537]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

Pretty much, anyone who dresses poorly, is doing so for one of the following reasons:

1) Popular fashion tends to be unflattering unless you have a perfect body.
2) Stopped caring at some point.
3) Lying to themselves about their real age or body type.
4) Truly, no fashion sense or knowledge.

#4 is actually decently rare, though. Most people fall into one of the first three groups.

I think they are all linked somewhat. I look at where I work (a consulting firm in Manhattan). Most of us, while we aren't models, are (or look) young, in relatively good shape and reasonably attractive (by lawyer/accountant/tech consultant standards). Most of us also are well educated, professional and come from the greater New York area. Also, many of us actually LIKE wearing nice clothes. Many of the guys wear Hugo Boss suits or Thomas Pink ties and there are a couple of guys who always know when Charles Thywitt is having a sale.

So speaking for myself, I know where to buy clothes and how to match them, I dress in a way that's appropriate for a 25 year old professional (hey, if you keep telling me I look 10 years younger than I am, I'm going to dress that way), my job REQUIRES me to care about my image and at a well proportioned 5'11", 195lbs I can fit into a lot of styles.

Still, we do have people who just don't "get it" (we are a firm of lawyers , accountants and tech consultants after all). Like:
- the pretty, 5'9" skinny blond girl who's hair is always kind of rumpled and is hit or miss with her outfits
- the good looking exercise nut who doesn't realize that striped pants and a diagonal plaid pattern shirt make him look like an optical illusion
- the fat girl who looks like she just rolled out of bed
- the older former network engineer who insists on dressing like he's a network engineer (frayed corporate golf shirt, ill fitting mis-matched chinos)
- the sloppy guy who either dresses like he's going to a tailgate or wears a suit that is dated and/or completely over the top

I can only assume that these people
1) don't think their body type or physical appearance lends itself to stylish clothes
2) don't care
3) don't know what they should be looking for
4) or don't own a mirror

[flodnak]

Disclaimer: I've only seen the British version of the show, and haven't seen it for a while - looking at the Wikipedia article, I was surprised to see that Trinny and Susannah are no longer presenting it!

But when I did watch it, I thought it was mostly good advice, with some of T&S's own biases mixed in, of course.

As I remember it, most of the women (and occasional men) they gave makeovers to fit into one of two groups. The larger group was dressing, they thought, to hide what they perceived as their flaws. Unfortunately they were failing to bring out their good features (they often didn't believe they had good features!), usually failing to conceal what they set out to conceal, and generally made themselves look heavier and considerably less attractive than they really were. One woman I remember clearly, for instance, had recently lost a lot of weight and was proud of it. But you wouldn't guess that from the way she was dressing, still wearing the tent-like styles that hadn't flattered her when she was heavy and now completely hid the attractive figure she'd worked so hard to acheive.

Another group was dressing as they had when they were younger - either because they believed that dressing like a 25-year-old (or their perception of how a 25 y.o. should dress) would make them look younger, or because they believed that was "their" style and newer styles were not for them.

This doesn't cover all the people who were made-over, but I think I can say those were the most common reasons why friends brought them to the show's/T&S's attention. For the first group, the advice dealt with ways to emphasize their assets and to a lesser extent de-emphasize "problem areas" in order to draw the eye to what was beautiful about these women. For the second, they emphasized finding classic styles that flattered each woman and would make the best of who she was right now, rather than trying to hang on to her twenties. In most, though not all, cases, I thought the women looked much better when wearing the clothes that fit the "rules".

Neither one of these things is difficult, really, but in my experience it isn't what most women talk about when they talk about clothes. Many women figure these things out by themselves, sometimes with the help of a friend or two, but quite a few just keep buying the fashion magazines and listening to friends with different body shapes and coloring talk about what they buy, and then figure something must be wrong with them when they don't look as good as they'd hoped.

(But I thought the "throw it all out" rule was/is dumb. I'm not going to wear my newest and most flattering clothes when I'm cleaning out the attic, y'know?)

[PunditLisa]

Originally Posted by msmith537

I can only assume that these people
1) don't think their body type or physical appearance lends itself to stylish clothes
2) don't care
3) don't know what they should be looking for
4) or don't own a mirror

#2 seems negative, so I'll add a fifth reason that is more neutral:

5) they are focused on other things

Some of the most brilliant people in the world have crappy wardrobes. It's not that they don't understand the concept of fashion and dressing for success; it's that they are too focused on other things. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jane Goodall, Mother Teresa ...sometimes people are so focused on their vision that things like wearing fashionable glasses is just too trivial to register.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/gatesmug1.html
http://www.wspa.de/campaigns/bushmea...es/goodall.jpg

Not exactly brilliant dressers, but I daresay some of the most successful, brilliant, respected people on Earth.

[msmith537]

Originally Posted by PunditLisa

5) they are focused on other things

Some of the most brilliant people in the world have crappy wardrobes. It's not that they don't understand the concept of fashion and dressing for success; it's that they are too focused on other things. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jane Goodall, Mother Teresa ...sometimes people are so focused on their vision that things like wearing fashionable glasses is just too trivial to register.

I'm pretty sure there are more crappy dressers than brilliant geniuses out there. But to a certain extent that is true. Keeping up with the latest fashion trends and maintaining your wardrobe is time consuming and expensive. Most adults have higher priorities.

[UntouchedTakeaway]

I love fashion and am considered (by my friends, at least) to be fairly fashion conscious and savvy.

I *love* the British (Trinny & Susannah) verision of WNTW and learned a great deal from them. I also have their books; that's where I first learned of Spanx - possibly the greatest shapewear ever created.

Even people who love fashion & know how to dress their particular body can always stand to learn something.

VCNJ~

[PunditLisa]

Originally Posted by msmith537

I'm pretty sure there are more crappy dressers than brilliant geniuses out there.

That's true. I was responding to the inference that tech consultants who don't wear Hugo Boss suits just "don't get it." Some do, in fact, "get it" and are focused on things that really matter as opposed to the label sewn into their clothes.