Checkmate!

[Baldwin]

Here's something that's bugged me in many movies:

Two characters are playing chess. (This applies to movies that don't have chess as a central plot element.) One of the characters makes a move, and announces "Checkmate!"

Almost always there are two problems with the scene:

1) Almost all the pieces seem to be on the board. Outside of a Fool's Mate, that doesn't happen often.

2) The character who's just lost is supposed to be competent, but somehow he was totally unaware that he was a move away from being mated. He's surprised.

But then, along comes Mel Brooks.

I'm watching a DVD of Blazing Saddles. When Sheriff Bart meets the Waco Kid (drunk in a jail cell), he asks the Kid what he likes to do. The Kid thinks and says, "Oh, play chess. . . screw . . ." Bart quickly says, "Let's play chess!"

So then you see them at a chessboard. Bart announces "Checkmate!" The Kid seems surprised -- but he's a liquor-soaked alcoholic, so that's plausible.

Here's the important thing -- it really is checkmate. I stopped the DVD to look, and the Kid's king is in check by one of Bart's rooks, and can't move without being in the path of Bart's other rook and remaining bishop. There are only seven pieces on the board -- it looks like the endgame of a real match.

I don't know if Mel Brooks plays chess, but he's a smart guy and obviously likes to get details right. So, kudos to Mel.

And, after 35 years, the movie's still funny.

[Skara_Brae]

I do not play chess, but isn't it usually customary to call "Check" when the king is in danger? I never understood why people are so surprised at "Checkmate" because they should understand they are in trouble, right?

[Menocchio]

Originally Posted by Skara_Brae

I do not play chess, but isn't it usually customary to call "Check" when the king is in danger? I never understood why people are so surprised at "Checkmate" because they should understand they are in trouble, right?

Not really. Check is when a piece could capture the king on the next turn if nothing else happens. Checkmate is when the player in check cannot make his king safe.

It's possible to be placed in check without ever really being in danger of checkmate, in fact it happens all the time, and it's possible to be put in checkmate without ever having been placed in check.

[Skara_Brae]

Originally Posted by Menocchio

Not really. Check is when a piece could capture the king on the next turn if nothing else happens. Checkmate is when the player in check cannot make his king safe.

It's possible to be placed in check without ever really being in danger of checkmate, in fact it happens all the time, and it's possible to be put in checkmate without ever having been placed in check.

Thanks for the explanation! As you can tell, I am not really "up" on chess

[chowder]

Another thing that bugs me is when the board is shown with a black square to the extreme bottom right

[Just Some Guy]

Yeah, that annoys me too. I'm also bothered when we're shown how clever a character is by having them win one hand of poker.

Sinister person: "Four aces. I win."
Our handsome lead: "Straight flush."
Glamorous woman: "Oh! You're so clever and good at poker!"

[bathsheba]

I hate when they mention pinchbeck in pre 1700's period dramas.

[chowder]

On the subject:

In one Star Trek episode a 3D chess game was shown, is it possible that this set is available on the market or was it just a "prop"

[DSYoungEsq]

Originally Posted by chowder

On the subject:

In one Star Trek episode a 3D chess game was shown, is it possible that this set is available on the market or was it just a "prop"

Three-dimensional chess had, I believe, been thought of before Star Trek. However, the version that was put together for the television show was a creation of the minds of the producers/directors of the show. Of course, the show's eventual popularity induced people to come up with working versions of whatever it was that Spock was playing. As I recall, when I had my first Star Fleet Techinical Manual (back in the mid-70s), they had dimensions and some rules, but it wasn't fully fleshed out, as I recall. Franklin Mint produced some versions of the board at one point. Now, I believe it's been retroactively invented to have a complete set of rules, etc., by people who obviously are as, um, obsessed, shall we say, as the ones who have extended Klingon into an almost complete language.

[Meurglys]

Originally Posted by chowder

On the subject:

In one Star Trek episode a 3D chess game was shown, is it possible that this set is available on the market or was it just a "prop"

It started out as a prop, but I'm certain I've seen workable versions based on it on sale at various times...

[TheBigTripleD]

Originally Posted by Menocchio

Not really. Check is when a piece could capture the king on the next turn if nothing else happens. Checkmate is when the player in check cannot make his king safe.

It's possible to be placed in check without ever really being in danger of checkmate, in fact it happens all the time, and it's possible to be put in checkmate without ever having been placed in check.

Actually this reminds me of a pet peeve of mine about chess on TV. Basically one guy will move into checkmate which last I checked wasn't allowed. (I mean usually it's one guy being arrogant and makes his move and then other guy immediately announces checkmate.)

[Baldwin]

Yep, still a good movie. Not only is the incidental chess scene correct, but we have this line:

Originally Posted by Hedley Lamarr

I want rustlers, cutthroats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperadoes, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, conmen, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswagglers, horse thiefs, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, asskickers, shitkickers, and Methodists!

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by TheBigTripleD

Actually this reminds me of a pet peeve of mine about chess on TV. Basically one guy will move into checkmate which last I checked wasn't allowed. (I mean usually it's one guy being arrogant and makes his move and then other guy immediately announces checkmate.)

So, wait, you mean Player A moves, then Player B announces checkmate without having moved a piece of their own? I must admit, I've never seen this sequence on TV.

[TheBigTripleD]

Originally Posted by pulykamell

So, wait, you mean Player A moves, then Player B announces checkmate without having moved a piece of their own? I must admit, I've never seen this sequence on TV.

Pretty much, actually play B moves and immediately takes the king. I kind of remember it from Leave to Beaver where Wally is playing Eddie Haskel. Eddie makes a move and Wally asks him a couple of times if he really wants to make that move. Eddie keeps saying he does and then Wally just announces checkmate and takes the king. It was my impression that you can never make a move to put your king in check.

[borschevsky]

Originally Posted by TheBigTripleD

It was my impression that you can never make a move to put your king in check.

That's true, although some versions of blitz (fast chess) rules do allow you to take your opponent's king if he leaves it in check. In normal chess, moving your king into check is just illegal, the same as moving a rook diagonally or something like that.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by chowder

Another thing that bugs me is when the board is shown with a black square to the extreme bottom right

"Bottom right" from which POV?

[Ximenean]

From either player's point of view. The rightmost square on the row nearest the player shopuld be light-coloured ("white to the right"). There's a trick chess puzzle, that I can't find right now, which exploits this, by presenting an apparently impossible mate-in-two or whatever. Impossible until you realise that the board has been rotated 90° from its usual orientation.

[Baldwin]

Originally Posted by Usram

From either player's point of view. The rightmost square on the row nearest the player shopuld be light-coloured ("white to the right"). There's a trick chess puzzle, that I can't find right now, which exploits this, by presenting an apparently impossible mate-in-two or whatever. Impossible until you realise that the board has been rotated 90° from its usual orientation.

Right; just remember "white to the right" and "Queen on color" when you're setting up. I've seen chessboards in movies where apparently nobody on the whole set knew how to set it up.

[DSYoungEsq]

I'm usually grateful that chess is even being SHOWN in a movie or TV show. It's the quintessential nerd game in most places, sadly.

[RealityChuck]

One thing that amused me was one commercial where an older man and a boy were playing chess.

Older man (makes move): Check
Boy (makes move): Checkmate.

Now I won't say such an exchange is impossible, but it strikes me as highly unlikely. The boy's move would have to block the piece that was attacking his king and at the same time attack the opposing king so that the king couldn't escape. You might be able to come up with a situation that fits, but the odds of it happening in the course of two players of even novice ability seem very long.

[kunilou]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

One thing that amused me was one commercial where an older man and a boy were playing chess.

Older man (makes move): Check
Boy (makes move): Checkmate.

Now I won't say such an exchange is impossible, but it strikes me as highly unlikely. The boy's move would have to block the piece that was attacking his king and at the same time attack the opposing king so that the king couldn't escape. You might be able to come up with a situation that fits, but the odds of it happening in the course of two players of even novice ability seem very long.

It's definitely not highly unlikely, at least in my case. My father regularly beat me because I would play a highly aggressive attack strategy and totally ignore what was happening to my king. I'd do something like put my queen on the same diagonal as his king, only to have him take my queen with his knight, simulatenously mating me.

Of course, my father was about 100x the chess player I was. In the commercial, it's supposed to be funny because the kid is obviously the better player

[Enderw24]

Originally Posted by Skara_Brae

I do not play chess, but isn't it usually customary to call "Check" when the king is in danger? I never understood why people are so surprised at "Checkmate" because they should understand they are in trouble, right?

Actually, in tournament settings, it's customary to NOT say "check" when the opposing king is in danger. Tournaments are timed affairs and if your opponent doesn't notice the check, he'll waste his time thinking of moves that don't involve removing his king from danger. Of course, when or if he tries to make an illegal move, you then point out the check to him, but by that point the damage has been done.