In this thread, non-Catholics were asked what Ash Wednesday meant to them. In my capacity as a non- and ex-Catholic, I responded that it allowed me to easily identify the idiots. Someone was offended, and I received an official warning from a moderator. Sent the mod a couple of e-mails requesting explanation/clarification, but haven’t heard back yet.
I was wondering if folks could fill me in on why my expressing my opinion that individuals participating in this ritual are - and look like – idiots, merited a warning.
I thought IMHO was for the frank exchange of opinions. What line did I cross? The only thing I can imagine is that it might be considered prohibited “hate speech.” But if that is the case, man, hate speech sure ain’t what it used to be!
I also didn’t think it entirely out of line for IMHO. For example, in this recent thread, folks called the practice of giving things up for Lent “silly shit”, and made the expected jokes about giving up religion. But no warnings were issued. If there is a workable distinction between my comments and the ones in this thread, please explain it to me.
Also, in the past I have initiated IMHO threads discussing various aspects of my family dynamics. On occasion I’ve received responses calling my wife and me unfit parents, using various derogatory terms to describe us, and saying how unfortunate my kids were to have us parents. While those responses were not pleasant to me, I knew they were possible when I chose to hit the “submit” button. Why is it not the same for someone qho requests opinions on a particulr religious belief/practice?
My family is every bit as important to me as anyone else’s mythology could possibly be to them. I’m not sure why hurtful comments directed at me and my family are more acceptable than my expressing my opinion that someone walking around with dirt on their forehead to celebrate a fairy tale looks idiotic.
Seriously, I’m trying to figure out what line I crossed.
I dunno. I didn’t notice any mods posting in that other thread so maybe no one reported the offending posts. The mods don’t read every single thread looking for posts that break the rules. There have even been threads where one poster insults another poster, and the second poster then retaliates and gets warned because only the second insult ever got reported.
IMO, your post was tasteless and slightly jerkish, so I’m not really feeling the sympathy.
Possibly the reason that you’ve seen similar things go unpunished is that no-one reported them? I mean, I assume from your acceptance of people insulting your family that you at least didn’t report it.
I’m not looking for a shred of sympathy. Hell, if I were, I sure wouldn’t come to the Pit looking for it!
Just didn’t know that “tasteless and jerkish” opinions were prohibited.
And yes, I realized my comment would potentially offend a large number of people and their beliefs. Because of that I thought it did not violate the “no personal insults” rule. Is there a prohibition against believers expressing their opinion that nonbelievers are amoral?
You see that it was an insult, right? You didn’t call their practice ‘silly shit’, you called those who practice ‘idiots’.
You’ve been around long enough to know that insults are for the pit.
I think where Dinsdales’ going w/this is that had some one expressed an opinion like “folks who believe the moon landing was faked are idiots”, the response would be different. We’ve ahd some difficulty historically, however, with the general area of ‘religion’. It’s not unusual for folks to talk about the magic sky pixie w/o getting warned, and then there’s the whole arena of “Majic” in general that falls into a grey area. I do understand, however, that, in a thread specifically about “what does Ash Wednesday mean to you”, some one posting something about idiots would at least be thread shitting.
I think an official warning was out of line - strikes me what you said falls under the “you can insult an entire class of people, even if some Dopers fall into that class” rule. I’d be loath to see that rule go, given the number of Dopers who belong to classes I sometimes want to insult. So yeah, mod clarification on this one would be nice.
Although I wasn’t involved in that thread, I’ll venture a few observations.
If nothing else, your remark could be considered “thread-shitting.” It was posted merely to be dismissive of the OP, and gratuitously insulted anyone who conformed to the practice. I probably would have warned you as well.
Complaining that some other instance didn’t get a warning is a pretty weak defense of your own behavior. It is possible that no one was offended enough by the posts in that thread to report it. No moderator posted in it, so it is quite possible no one saw it.
Did you report the posts that you found offensive? If not, you have no call to complain.
I think the problem is that the IMHO thread had people expressing their personal preferences. So when you categorize a group – including some of those people – as “idiots,” it comes across as an insult.
I’ll go along with threadshitting, albeit maybe unintentional.
The title of the OP was:
However, the body of the OP was asking (emphasis mine):
With that caveat, I’ll grant calling all Christians idiots was a bit of a turd in the punchbowl along the lines of going into, say, a football thread and calling all football fans idiots. Since the thread title appeared to be inviting all non-Catholic opinions, though, I’d give Dinsdale a pass. That, and because I like Dinsdale.
I know Catholics who don’t do the ashes on forehead thingy. Perhaps there were some similar folk in the thread? Dinsdale wouldn’t have been calling any of them idiots. Maybe he was calling most Catholics, Anglicans, and Episcopalians idiots, but not all.
Aside from being needlessly inflammatory, the comment was also essentially non-responsive to the question in the OP. I’d call it thread-shitting. I know that caustic and critical comments are made about particular groups and classes all the time, but I also think that kind of stuff can shade off into gratuitous jerkishness, especially when an insult is devoid of any other context or point. How do we know what the line is? It’s a judgement call and that’s what mods are for.
Nonsense. As has been repeated here ad infinitum, moderators do not read every post in every thread, nor necessarily look at every thread. Unless an offending post is reported, there is no reason to assume a moderator saw it. Even then, reports can occasionally get overlooked.
I’m Catholic, didn’t bother me a bit. You’re entitled to your opinion. I wouldn’t go bagging on any Muslims, though. As for the rules, It must have been a violation. Czarcasm doesn’t give a shit about religion as far as I can tell, so you must have violated one.
Dinsdale, your response in the Ash Wednesday thread was threadshitting (and completely predictable). The thread was clearly intended to elicit from practicing Christians of non-Catholic denominations their opinions and experiences on the imposition of Ashes.
I almost posted to the thread, but I figured that soon enough some asshole would weigh in with the obligatory Big-sky-fairy/Pink Elephant turd of a post, and the thought of it made my ass tired.
If a poster looks around and sees similarly toned posts go unpunished, it is reasonable to assume that tone isn’t going to be punished in the future.
But oh yeah, I forgot, god forbid anyone should expect any kind of consistency out of the moderation around here. Keep 'em guessing with arbitrary warnings all day long. It’s much easier than actually doing your job and reading the posts anyway.
ETA: Note that I’m not defending the OP’s post. I’m specifically attacking this horseshit:
