Settlers of Catan - tell me about the expansions

[Asimovian]

I was recently introduced to this game, and I'm absolutely head-over-heels in love with it. It is long enough and involves enough strategy to keep it interesting, but not so involved that I get frustrated (I don't have the patience for a lot of strategical games). And, of course, one never really gets tired of saying, "I've got wood for sheep!" (One wonders if Hal Briston has given the game a try...)

In poking around on Amazon, I've noticed that there are numerous variations and expansions for the game. I'm just wondering whether anyone here has invested in any other versions of the game, and how they compare to the original. Your thoughts?

[N9IWP]

Seafarers - this is the more mild expansion. It adds boats (wood + sheep), the pirate ship (in addition to the robber - though it blocks building not production), and some extra victory point scenarios. (ex: build a setllement on an island that you didn't start on and get an extra VP). Another addition is undiscovered hexes. build a sea rout and pull a hex from a bag - could be water or land. If land you get that resource.

Knights and Cities - a more radical change in rules. Adds "commodities" (paper, cloth, and coins) that you get instead of a secnd resouce if you have a city next to forest, pasture, and mountain respectively. Gets rid of delevopment cards and replaces them with "progress cards" (a 3rd die is used to determine when you get these *). It makes the game more "agressive" but you are more likely to be able to do something on your turn.

I'd check the reviews on boardgamegeek for more info.

Brian
*simplifying this a bit

[Hawkeyeop]

Originally Posted by Asimovian

I was recently introduced to this game, and I'm absolutely head-over-heels in love with it. It is long enough and involves enough strategy to keep it interesting, but not so involved that I get frustrated (I don't have the patience for a lot of strategical games). And, of course, one never really gets tired of saying, "I've got wood for sheep!" (One wonders if Hal Briston has given the game a try...)

In poking around on Amazon, I've noticed that there are numerous variations and expansions for the game. I'm just wondering whether anyone here has invested in any other versions of the game, and how they compare to the original. Your thoughts?

Welcome to the world of Catan . It is always a great game to teach, because the look on new players faces reminds me of how much I loved it when I first learned. And playing in college, there is no shortage of the number of euphuisms that come up. Settlers is on the short list of my favorite games. A good part of it is that I can play it with people who aren't quite as competitive as me. I have played the base game (with and without 5/6 player expansion), Seafarers, Cities and Knights, Starfarers, and the card game + expansion.

Seafarers and Cities and Knights are the base expansions. That is, both of them require the base game to play, and come with pieces to add on to the board. Mayfair has just released an updated version of the base game, Seafarers, and Cities along with 5 and 6 player expansion. The rest of the expansions are stand alone games

Seafarers adds the concept of ships, which act similarly to roads, except you can move them. Instead of one island, there are multiple ones that you can settle and explore. There are a number of starting scenarios to choose which dictate how the game will be played. It does a good job of capturing the feel of Settlers, while expanding your options.

Cities and Knights introduces more direct conflict into the game. Some people don't like it as much, because it does make it more competitive.

Starfarers is a stand alone game. I recently bought it, because they stopped making it. I eventually want to get every Settler's game, so ones that will be hard to get later go to the top the list. I have only played it once thus far, but it is pretty awesome, and it has the best dice roller of any game I've ever played. The pieces are fragile though, and prone to breakage. The game plays like Settlers in space, with a few new interesting concepts.

The card game is alright, but I've found it to be less interesting and more time consuming then the base game. But since Mouse and I are only 2, it gets played a lot more often then everything else.

You might be interesting trying other European games well. A lot of them have similar balances in terms of strategy and competitiveness. Carcassonne is another game that we have most expansions to and it has the advantage of being playable as a two player game.

[Steve MB]

The two major expansions are Seafarers of Catan and Cities and Knights of Catan.

Seafarers replaces the one big landmass with a whole bunch of little ones, and uses ships as the equivalent of roads for spanning a hexside between two water hexes. The rules include a bunch of "canned" setups in place of the random tile layout of the original game. The main difference in gameplay is that resources tend to be a bit sparser (because most of the available building sites are along a coastline, and thus don't have access to three production hexes) and ports more important (see previous comment). This is somewhat offset by using the "gold mine" hex (that produces "one of whatever you want" when its number comes up).


Cities and Knights introduces a whole batch of new elements. You start with one settlement and one city, and cities produce "commodities" in addition to the basic "resources" of the original game. Commodities can be traded for progress on several flip-card tracks that enable you to get development cards (they replace the special cards of the original game, and have a much greater variety of effects), earn special privileges when you advance far enough, and gives you a "metropolis" (worth two points) when you advance really far.

In place of the "soldier" cards from the basic game, you can buy "knights" that are placed on the board, and can hold sites (to block opponent roadbuilding or settling), chase away the robber (from an adjacent hex), and help defend the island against the barbarians (failure to do that can reduce a city to a settlement; providing the greatest contribution to a successful defense earns a point).


Basically, Cities and Knights has more of a learning curve, but gives more options in gameplay; there are far fewer turns when you just roll the dice and pass because you don't have any way to improve your position.

[mmouse9799]

Well, since several other people have explained Seafarers and Cities & Knights, I won't bore you with saying the same things. Catan is a great world to play a game in!

Before you spend a lot of money on the expansions, you may want to consider how many people you generally will have play. As Hawkeye alluded to, it's nearly impossible to play a regular game of Catan with two people. (We've tried. It doesn't work.) So, if players and/or money is a concern, you may want to hold off on the expansions.

I'll also second that you check out Carcassone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcass...8board_game%29

[Sitnam]

The only advice I can come up with that hasn't been offered is don't buy the 6 player expansion set. The game needs to be tweaked so much with 6 playing Cataan loses it's charm and balance. Not only does each round take forever, but the trade aspect (the best part of the game) is severely limited.

But yeah, Seafarers and Knights are worth it.

[Asimovian]

The regular group is three of us, although we'd like to add a fourth. I have a demo of the computer game, which is cool but not as much fun as playing with live people.

[ArizonaTeach]

Many is the time I've thought about picking up that beautiful 3-D resin set that's out there for like 400 dollars. Is it worth it?

[Sanity Challenged]

I have the Seafarer's expansion, but rarely use it. Based on that experience, I've never tried the Knights & Cities. However, I have a kind of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude, so other than a few games which are particularly suited for expansion, I rarely find that a good game is improved by adding an expansion. IMHO, what makes the great games great is often a simple, elegant ruleset, so mucking that up by adding new rules doesn't work out for me.

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by Asimovian

And, of course, one never really gets tired of saying, "I've got wood for sheep!"

You must have played with my group....or Hal, of course.

[Just Some Guy]

Originally Posted by Asimovian

I was recently introduced to this game, and I'm absolutely head-over-heels in love with it. It is long enough and involves enough strategy to keep it interesting, but not so involved that I get frustrated (I don't have the patience for a lot of strategical games). And, of course, one never really gets tired of saying, "I've got wood for sheep!" (One wonders if Hal Briston has given the game a try...)

When I taught my brother the game last year I told him everyone is sick of the "wood for sheep" jokes. I've reached the point that I'll going for some real stretches in phrasing to avoid it.

With the base Settlers expansions there are Seafarers types and Cities and Knights types. Do you love expanding and exploring? Seafarers is the game for you. Do you wish Settlers was more like Civilization? Then Cities and Knights is for you.

Asimovian have I got a deal for you. I happen to have two, count them TWO, of the special convention expansions for Settlers. Obviously I need one for my collection but send me a note through the board I can provide you with an official set of Catan dice cards which replace the die rolling and add special events and Settlers of Catan - The Great River which is a set of three hexes that add a new victory point condition.

ArizonaTeach, I've played on the resin board and while it looks pretty it is clumsy. I have made my own wooden set instead as a Christmas gift and given it away.

[Sitnam]

Originally Posted by Asimovian

And, of course, one never really gets tired of saying, "I've got wood for sheep!"

KODT fan?

[Manda JO]

Originally Posted by Sitnam

The only advice I can come up with that hasn't been offered is don't buy the 6 player expansion set. The game needs to be tweaked so much with 6 playing Cataan loses it's charm and balance. Not only does each round take forever, but the trade aspect (the best part of the game) is severely limited.

But yeah, Seafarers and Knights are worth it.

I actually really like 4 player on the six player board. Or three players on the six player board with no extra pieces, which means you have to have longest road/biggest army, or several victory points to win. Either way, it's nice to have a little more room.

[Sitnam]

Originally Posted by Manda JO

I actually really like 4 player on the six player board. Or three players on the six player board with no extra pieces, which means you have to have longest road/biggest army, or several victory points to win. Either way, it's nice to have a little more room.

Ok, but you agree that the 6 player rules are broken no?

[El Perro Fumando]

If you want to try out the expansions before buying, I would suggest using games.asobrain.com - it's called Xplorers on their site, but they've done a pretty good job.

We LOVE cities and knights - so much that we only really play that version now.

A coworker's friend has the 3-D expensive board, but does not play on it. It's more of a display piece for him.

[garius]

Cities and Knights is by far my "preferred" version of the game - whilst i love (and happily) play both other variants, i find that C&K is by far the most tactical variant (i.e. less dependent on dice-roll luck).

Second the description of it as "aggresive" though (depending on who you are playing with obviously). I once royally pissed-off my Missus by managing to effectively take her out of the game within about 6 or 7 dice rolls.

I was well chuffed with myself from a gaming sense, but a quick look at her face soon made it clear that it was an outrageously stupid thing to do from a relationship perspective. Never made that mistake again.

Originally Posted by Asimovian

I have a demo of the computer game, which is cool but not as much fun as playing with live people.

I've been known to play it on XBox Live. It's surprisingly enjoyable.

There's also a couple of websites out there you can play it against people on. I know peeps who do that all the time (complete with microphones to talk to each other).

[Asimovian]

Originally Posted by Sitnam

KODT fan?

I don't know the reference, sadly, so I'm guessing I'm not!

[Bookkeeper]

We frequently play Settlers with two sets for a 7-8 player game. Starfarers of Catan is also a good game, and plays well with the 5-6 player expansion as well (although the plastic ship bits break too easily in our experience - not critical to game play, however). For two players, Starships of Catan is loosely related to Starfarers and is a good game, but it's two player only.

[Ludovic]

The Starfarers loose equivalent in our group of "Sheep for Wood" is "You must FIGHT!", said when you fail to run away from an encounter card or decide to fight the pirates. You must say the phrase in a stentorian, 50's - announcer voice.

[Sitnam]

Has anyone played Catan Histories: Struggle for Rome? I looked at it yesterday, but have been burned too many times to get a game without a recommendation.

[jackdavinci]

Originally Posted by mmouse9799

As Hawkeye alluded to, it's nearly impossible to play a regular game of Catan with two people. (We've tried. It doesn't work.)

What? I play regular Cataan with two people regularly and have no troubles. In some ways it can even be better at times because there's more "breathing room" on the board.

I've played a bunch of the expansions but I have to recommend the original game as the best and most fun. The only expansion I've found interesting is just having more pieces to play with so the board is larger and accommodate more players / longer game. Sea farers was interesting for the concept of islands but again I prefer the original. Cities and knights I did not like at all - it just adds a lot of complications that bog down the fun without adding much of anything interesting (unless you get off on complicated strategy, which of course some people do). I did not play the space version altho my friend has and gave it a bad review. I'd love to try for myself though.

One note: make sure all the players have the same number of pieces - since players have to stop building when they run out, it's not fair if one player starts out with more pieces. I'm not sure if our set started out uneven, or if we lost some pieces along the way, but either could affect you too.

[Steve MB]

Originally Posted by jackdavinci

One note: make sure all the players have the same number of pieces - since players have to stop building when they run out, it's not fair if one player starts out with more pieces. I'm not sure if our set started out uneven, or if we lost some pieces along the way, but either could affect you too.

You're supposed to have 15 roads, 5 settlements, and 4 cities (and 15 ships in Seafarers, and 3 city walls and 2 knights of each of levels 1,2,&3 in Cities and Knights).

[Just Some Guy]

Originally Posted by jackdavinci

What? I play regular Cataan with two people regularly and have no troubles. In some ways it can even be better at times because there's more "breathing room" on the board.

The key gameplay element in Catan is trading. It's what wins and loses games. In a two player game any trade you make will have some advantage for your only opponent therefore it is in your interest not to trade. That reduces the game to sheer randomness and that's why two player Settlers of Catan is a bad thing.

Obviously the card game stands alone.

[Hawkeyeop]

Originally Posted by Just Some Guy

The key gameplay element in Catan is trading. It's what wins and loses games. In a two player game any trade you make will have some advantage for your only opponent therefore it is in your interest not to trade. That reduces the game to sheer randomness and that's why two player Settlers of Catan is a bad thing.

Obviously the card game stands alone.

My bigger problem with playing the game with two players is that, in Catan, success is exponential. With 3 or more players, the trailing the players may teamup to stop the lead player. With 2 players, the player with the early lead is just going to get further and further ahead.

[jackdavinci]

Originally Posted by Just Some Guy

The key gameplay element in Catan is trading. It's what wins and loses games. In a two player game any trade you make will have some advantage for your only opponent therefore it is in your interest not to trade. That reduces the game to sheer randomness and that's why two player Settlers of Cataan is a bad thing.

We may have to agree to disagree then lol. It wouldn't be quite as fun, but i could imagine playing Cataan without trading (there's still bank trading after all) - there's a lot more to the game than that and I don't find that it's much more than an occasional convenience, otherwise I'd be playing a card game, not a building board game. I don't see that ultimately trading in a 3 player game is fundamentally different from in a 2 player game.

If card trading is the only strategy you are using playing this game, you are missing out. There's a lot more to it!

[Just Some Guy]

Originally Posted by jackdavinci

We may have to agree to disagree then lol. It wouldn't be quite as fun, but i could imagine playing Cataan without trading (there's still bank trading after all) - there's a lot more to the game than that and I don't find that it's much more than an occasional convenience, otherwise I'd be playing a card game, not a building board game. I don't see that ultimately trading in a 3 player game is fundamentally different from in a 2 player game.

If card trading is the only strategy you are using playing this game, you are missing out. There's a lot more to it!

I never said there wasn't more to the game but trading is king in Settlers. You have to gather resources to succeed and presumably all players will select locations and construction for their optimal resource gathering. Therefore you can assume that all players will achieve a similar amount of resources throughout the game. The only way to increase the value of that is to trade with another player. Both players will feel that they are increasing the value of their hand by doing this while leaving other players in the game out.

With two players it's just random. Where the dice fall is who wins. Settlement selection, construction, and road building usually have obvious optimal choices for the player, it's trade where the actual game is at.

[gonzoron]

Originally Posted by Sitnam

Has anyone played Catan Histories: Struggle for Rome? I looked at it yesterday, but have been burned too many times to get a game without a recommendation.

I have, it was good, but not great enough for me to really remember much about it. Reminded me of Settlers of the Stone Age. You've got dudes that have to move outward to settle, rather than building roads like in the standard game.

(My personal preference is C&K, or C&K+Seafarers. I rarely feel like playing plain ol' settlers anymore, and I agree that 6 players is death (5 is merely dismemberment).)

I don't think anyone has mentioned Die Siedler Von Catan: Das Buch zum spielen. It's a book (in German) that includes several Settlers variants, with pieces included to play them. You can get a printed English translation of the rule if you buy the book through Mayfair games, or you can the translation via www.boardgamegeek.com.

Another good stand-alone version is Die Siedler Von Nurnberg, but it's kind of hard to find. Cadamir: The First Settlers, is a neat spin, taking the basic rules of Settlers and grafting them on an adventure game.

[mmouse9799]

Originally Posted by jackdavinci

What? I play regular Cataan with two people regularly and have no troubles. In some ways it can even be better at times because there's more "breathing room" on the board.

That's the problem. There's more room on the board, therefore the players sort of cordon off their own areas and don't interact with each other's pieces as much. For example, it's not likely that one players longest road will get cut off by another player. It's less competitive. Also, the player that takes the early lead will most probably win, it's very hard to catch up.

[Sitnam]

Originally Posted by gonzoron

You can get a printed English translation of the rule if you buy the book through Mayfair games, or you can the translation via www.boardgamegeek.com.

This sounds great, but I can't seem to find it from the cite you gave.

[Sitnam]

In searching for an English translation of Die Siedler Von Catan: Das Buch zum spielen I found a few Scenarios you can play with just the basic set.

[gonzoron]

Originally Posted by Sitnam

This sounds great, but I can't seem to find it from the cite you gave.

If you go to www.boardgamegeek.com and type "das buch zum" in the search box, it should lead you to:
www.boardgamegeek.com/game/1137

Scroll down to the "Files" section and there's a file there named "Catan Settlers Book.doc"

[Sitnam]

Originally Posted by gonzoron

Scroll down to the "Files" section and there's a file there named "Catan Settlers Book.doc"

Thank you very much.

[N9IWP]

There is a two player variant here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/17154

I have not played it

Brian

[garius]

Slightly off-topic i suppose, but i've just moved house and my new local pub has, as well as the more traditional set of dominoes and jenga blocks, a copy of Settlers of Cataan behind the bar.

Pub based Settlers sessions here we come!

[Asimovian]

Originally Posted by Just Some Guy

Asimovian have I got a deal for you. I happen to have two, count them TWO, of the special convention expansions for Settlers. Obviously I need one for my collection but send me a note through the board I can provide you with an official set of Catan dice cards which replace the die rolling and add special events and Settlers of Catan - The Great River which is a set of three hexes that add a new victory point condition.

OK, so our little group finally got a chance to play these expansions (thanks again, JSG!)

Two out of the three of us were not impressed with the dice cards. The main complaint was that some of the conditions on the cards served no purpose other than to help remove advantages that one player may have gained, which we didn't like, and this also served to lengthen the game unnecessarily. It seemed unnecessary to punish the leader by "leveling the field" as it were. I also didn't like the fact that players were able to do a certain amount of card-counting because you know you're only going to encounter so many of each number in the deck. This had a fairly major influence on placement of the robber and willingness to build settlements on certain spaces. I suppose there are arguments for that being a positive or a negative, but I didn't like it.

The Great River expansion seems interesting, although none of us capitalized on it. Also, the other two players didn't like that this expansion added a need for two additional victory points, as they felt it makes the game go on too long (I disagreed). But we all are interested in trying this one again (keeping the game at 10 victory points, though).