NFL offseason discussion (up to but not including draft)

[Ellis Dee]

Here is for discussion of the moves your team makes, the moves you wish they'd make, and the one's you wish you could undo. Like, say, the Falcons releasing Crumpler. WTF was that about?

Speaking of the Falcons, as a Giants fan I was interested in this rumor:

the Giants are willing to give Atlanta their first-round pick (31st overall) in April's draft in exchange for [two-time Pro Bowl cornerback DeAngelo] Hall.

I'd personally like this deal despite Hall's attitude issues. Hell, I respect Hall blasting Petrino for running away with his tail between his legs, but I'm not thrilled with that meltdown he had against Carolina. Even still, the upside is enticing.

First off he's a speed demon, which is always nice in a corner. I loves me some Aaron Ross, but do the Giants really need to be spending two consecutive first rounders on DBs? Well, if it lands you a nice tandem, I'd say it's worth it. And Ross & Hall would surely qualify. What else is Reese going to do with that pick, draft another DE?

As I detailed in another thread, the Giants don't really have too many pressing needs, but the secondary is far and away the shakiest group. Gibril is a free agent, the linked article suggest they are getting ready to cut R.W. McQuarters, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the venerable Sam Madison retire.

Given that, I'd like to see that top pick used in the secondary. And since Hall is close enough to a proven commodity, a straight-up trade sounds like a no-brainer to me.

[SenorBeef]

I don't watch the Falcons much but I get the impression Hall makes a lot of bad reads and gives up a lot of plays. Combine that with being a head case and I'd say he's overrated.

The Browns resigned Jamal Lewis today, which I'm okayish with. He's getting up there in milage, but he's only 28. It was a 2 year deal with an option for a third... details aren't in yet but I doubt it's outrageous money.

Most of the year I thought he wasn't a good fit for the blocking scheme - people see him as a Jerome Bettis type but that's only because they're looking at his size. Jerome was a big guy with agility but not much speed. Jamal is a big guy with speed but not much agility. He's not a great short yardage back for his size and he misses a lot of holes with a short window because he hesistates too much and doesn't have good short area acceleration. Still, he racked up over 1300 rushing yards despite missing 2 games and being injured in others... he averaged over 130 yards per game after Thanksgiving. What they need to do is work Jerome Harrison into the game more - he might be the best running back that no one's ever heard of.

They're working on a 3 year contract with Derrick Anderson. He originally wanted 5-7, they wanted 3.. and the organization is at least claiming they're close on free. The hardcore fan base has totally turned on Anderson after he pretty much single handedly blew locking up a playoff slot - you've never seen a 24 year old quarterback who threw for 29 touchdowns in his first year as a starter so unwanted by his fanbase. He's keeping The Golden Boy off the field.

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

The Browns resigned Jamal Lewis today, which I'm okayish with.

Not a Browns fan, but that was my exact feeling when I saw the news on the crawl. I'm frankly surprised that he's only 28; he feels old, if you know what I mean.

You might be right about Hall. In all honesty I haven't seen any of his games so I don't really know. He did make two probowls, though, and he impressed me in the probowl skills competitions, so I assume there is some potential there.

As for Derrick Anderson: Really? What happened? Could you elaborate? I was a bit preoccupied with the Giants at the end of the season...

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Originally Posted by Ellis Dee

As for Derrick Anderson: Really? What happened? Could you elaborate? I was a bit preoccupied with the Giants at the end of the season...

In short, Charlie Frye snuck into Paul Brown Stadium, knocked out D.A., and put on his uniform for the second-to-last game of the season (which, if won, would have guaranteed a playoff spot).

[Jimmy Chitwood]

That would be a fantastic deal for the Giants, especially in terms of matching up with divisional opponents. I think the Falcons could probably get more for Hall if they wanted to, though.

[dalej42]

The Cardinals cut three players to make room to restructure Larry Fitzgerald's contract.

Very good move. Boldin and Fitzgerald are the best receiving duo in the NFL.

Not sure what the Cards should do about Edge. Running backs do not age well.

I think Matt Leinart should be the starter next year. We need to find out if he is Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. Warner has maybe one year left, but he is injury prone and fumbles too much.

[lieu]

The Giants and Hall are what I came in to mention too, although as a Cowboy fan my enthusiasm is less than yours, Ellis.

The Boys are letting Flozell Adams test free agent waters, although it likely is just so a fair market value can be established. I imagine we'll have for for at least one more year. The same better hold true for Marion Barber.

Zach Thomas is lookin' around. It'd be nice to have him back home but we've bigger needs in the secondary.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

In short, Charlie Frye snuck into Paul Brown Stadium, knocked out D.A., and put on his uniform for the second-to-last game of the season (which, if won, would have guaranteed a playoff spot).

Bah. First-year starter has one bad game and all of a sudden he's the goat. He had a poor game, sure, but his receivers seemed to take the day off too.

I doubt Hall is going anywhere. He's brilliant in man coverage (though not so good playing zone) and the Falcons know whoever they draft with that pick likely won't be half as good as Hall. Plus, they play in a division where every opponent has one really good receiver (Steve Smith, Marques Colston, Joey Galloway) and a bunch of weak ones. He's perfect for his role - stick him on the other team's big threat and let your safeties worry about the other side of the field.

I think Matt Leinart should be the starter next year. We need to find out if he is Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. Warner has maybe one year left, but he is injury prone and fumbles too much.

I can already tell you who Leinart is. He's Matt Hasselbeck. He'll take a while to stop throwing silly picks, but when he figures it out he'll be a top-10 guy year in and year out. He'll never be MVP, but you'll not have to worry about finding a new QB every three years.

[Wargamer]

The Panthers cut DeShawn Foster on Thursday. Seems they think his fumble-prone, oft-injured schtick was getting old. So, it appears DeAngelo Williams will be the started for the Cats next year.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

I...I like the Lions.


I wish we had Mike Martz. That upsets me.

[garygnu]

Originally Posted by Least Original User Name Ever

I...I like the Lions.


I wish we had Mike Martz. That upsets me.

I'm wallowing in 49er fandom, eagerly awaiting the series premiere of The Odd Couple remake.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Originally Posted by garygnu

I'm wallowing in 49er fandom, eagerly awaiting the series premiere of The Odd Couple remake.

You'll see a difference if you see the details in football. You should be happy.

[SenorBeef]

Originally Posted by Ellis Dee

Not a Browns fan, but that was my exact feeling when I saw the news on the crawl. I'm frankly surprised that he's only 28; he feels old, if you know what I mean.

He's got a lot of milage, he came into the league at 20 or 21. But he looked healthier this year than he has in the previous 2 years - he had some offseason surgery to remove bone spurs and it helped him.

I was pretty down on him in the first half of the year - Cleveland's line is a mobile line that effectively blocks on the second level, but Lewis with his slow acceleration and sometimes slow decision making seems to be better suited to a mammoth drive blocking line that opens big, designated holes and lets him run through them at full speed and handle the second level guys himself.

But part of that is that the passing game was very successful and the defense was atrocious - forcing the Browns to score all game and gave him limited running opportunities. Later in the year when the passing game slowed down and the defense started to improve he was much more productive - in his last 6 games he ran for 697 yards for almost 4.8 yards a carry so I've warmed up to him somewhat. He had a really productive year - if you project his per-game average to the two games he missed due to injury, he'd have ran for just under 1500 yards... on a team with a bad defense that rarely had the opportunity to run out the clock.

At least the contract length is reasonable - 2 years is probably what's left of his productive time. I'd feel better about the situation if they start working Jerome Harrison into the game - he's one of those players where almost every time you see him play he does remarkably well, and then inexplicably you almost never see him play.

You might be right about Hall. In all honesty I haven't seen any of his games so I don't really know. He did make two probowls, though, and he impressed me in the probowl skills competitions, so I assume there is some potential there.

I haven't seen Hall that much either, I'm mostly going by what I've read on threads where the idea of trading for Hall has been raised on a Browns board. There were some people who seemed pretty knowledgable about him. The consensus was that he was very physically talented but often got burned by mental mistakes, biting on fakes, etc.

As for Derrick Anderson: Really? What happened? Could you elaborate? I was a bit preoccupied with the Giants at the end of the season...

He threw a whole lot of picks at backbreaking times in a game that would've locked up a playoff spot. Usually the QB takes too much blame for a loss, but he pretty much single handedly blew that game.

The game plan was strange, though - there were 40+ mph wind that day and Cinci only let Palmer throw 20 times or so and he looked pretty crappy doing it. So why the Browns tried to pass, pass, pass under those conditions when Lewis had ripped up Cincinatti for 216 yards earlier in the year is mysterious.

That wasn't the only instance, though. Fan displeasure was growing. Derek tends to do some things that are so obviously bad that it pisses off fans. He reads deep coverage very well, but sometimes entirely misses the underneath coverage, and he'll throw a ball directly into a linebacker's chest. He's also got wildly inconsistent and horrible accuracy on the most basic short throws - he'll sometimes overthrow a back that's 7 yards away from him on a flare route by throwing it 3 yards above his head.

And then there was the crowd that was saying "Yeah, so Anderson's throwing 3 or 4 touchdowns a game.... give The Golden Boy this offense line and these receivers, and he'd be throwing for 8 per game..."

Before the Cinci game, most were generally supportive of Anderson with a minority of loud critics, but it flipped after that game. But this is only amongst hardcore fans - the ones that post on message boards - I don't live in Cleveland anymore so I don't have a sense of what the average fan feels.

My personal feeling on the issue is that someone wants to overpay in a trade for Anderson, I'd take it (mostly because the defense really needs help). But if not, sign Anderson to a 2-3 year contract. Having two good QBs is not some horrible thing that must be avoided.

[SenorBeef]

They resolved the 3rd-4th-5th draft position ties.

Atlanta drafts #3, Raiders #4, Chiefs #5.

From John Clayton:

The Falcons had the first call and won the toss. Under that scenario, the Falcons got the third pick and the Raiders the fourth pick. Had the Falcons lost the toss and the Raiders won, the Raiders would have drafted third, and then the Falcons would have flipped against the Chiefs for the No. 4 and No. 5 picks.

That's not true, is it? Under that scenario the Chiefs had no shot at the #3 pick. Unless they did some sort of 3 way drawing to determine which two flipped first... in which case why not use that same 3 way drawing to determine draft order? Maybe the rulebook required a "coin flip" specifically.

[MadTheSwine]

I am a huge Rams fan.

I think they are a waaaaay better team than the 3-13 record,any of ya'll think so that aren't rammily biased?
Glad they kept Linehan for a coach.I'm excited about the upcoming season.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by MadTheSwine

I am a huge Rams fan.

I think they are a waaaaay better team than the 3-13 record,any of ya'll think so that aren't rammily biased?
Glad they kept Linehan for a coach.I'm excited about the upcoming season.

Definitely too much talent there for them not to improve.

In fact, as long as they can keep one or two starting linemen healthy all year they should certainly be no worse than 8-8. No team could have survived the O-line injuries the Rams did last year.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

Definitely too much talent there for them not to improve.

In fact, as long as they can keep one or two starting linemen healthy all year they should certainly be no worse than 8-8. No team could have survived the O-line injuries the Rams did last year.

Agreed. That line killed them last year.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by Least Original User Name Ever

Agreed. That line killed them last year.

And my fantasy season, since I took Marc Bulger in half my drafts.

*sigh*

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

I don't watch the Falcons much but I get the impression Hall makes a lot of bad reads and gives up a lot of plays. Combine that with being a head case and I'd say he's overrated.

The Browns resigned Jamal Lewis today, which I'm okayish with. He's getting up there in milage, but he's only 28. It was a 2 year deal with an option for a third... details aren't in yet but I doubt it's outrageous money.

Most of the year I thought he wasn't a good fit for the blocking scheme - people see him as a Jerome Bettis type but that's only because they're looking at his size. Jerome was a big guy with agility but not much speed. Jamal is a big guy with speed but not much agility. He's not a great short yardage back for his size and he misses a lot of holes with a short window because he hesistates too much and doesn't have good short area acceleration. Still, he racked up over 1300 rushing yards despite missing 2 games and being injured in others... he averaged over 130 yards per game after Thanksgiving. What they need to do is work Jerome Harrison into the game more - he might be the best running back that no one's ever heard of.

They're working on a 3 year contract with Derrick Anderson. He originally wanted 5-7, they wanted 3.. and the organization is at least claiming they're close on free. The hardcore fan base has totally turned on Anderson after he pretty much single handedly blew locking up a playoff slot - you've never seen a 24 year old quarterback who threw for 29 touchdowns in his first year as a starter so unwanted by his fanbase. He's keeping The Golden Boy off the field.

The fans are right to not like Anderson, because his receivers bail him out, and he isn't very good. His stats were completely padded against my team (Bengals) in that first meeting.
Jamal actually had a better year than I thought he would. Last year's performance had me thinking he was washed up, but he did OK.
I did particularly relish ruining your run at the playoffs in that second Browns/Bengals game, btw.
No worries, though, we had a horribly injured/suspended/chaotic year. We'll be back in 2008. We gotta fix that defense though. It sucks. Well, that and the running game. Rudi/Perry being hurt and/or ineffective last year was painful to watch.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by dalej42

The Cardinals cut three players to make room to restructure Larry Fitzgerald's contract.

Very good move. Boldin and Fitzgerald are the best receiving duo in the NFL.

Not sure what the Cards should do about Edge. Running backs do not age well.

I think Matt Leinart should be the starter next year. We need to find out if he is Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. Warner has maybe one year left, but he is injury prone and fumbles too much.

I think Chad Johnson and TJ Houshmanzadeh would argue that statement, even if Chad is a crybaby headcase mini-version of Terrel Owens. Hell, you could make a case for Moss/Welker here too.

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chitwood

That would be a fantastic deal for the Giants, especially in terms of matching up with divisional opponents. I think the Falcons could probably get more for Hall if they wanted to, though.

Yeah, I saw on tonight's SportsCenter -- as I sit here buried under almost a foot of snow -- John Clayton talking about how there are at least 3 or 4 teams interested in the same deal for Hall. Since the Giants have the last pick, everyone else's deal is sweeter for Atlanta. Thus there's no way to get Hall straight up. Clayton mentioned they could try to toss in a 3rd rounder, but I'm not down with spending multiple picks on any one player. (Other than a franchise QB, of course.)

Originally Posted by MadTheSwine

I think they are a waaaaay better team than the 3-13 record,any of ya'll think so that aren't rammily biased?

Absolutely. The Giants got crushed by injuries in 2003, resulting in a 4-12 record, a fired coach, and the dawning of the Eli era. Injuries can take out any team, and unfortunately for the Rams, 2007 was their turn in the barrel.

[Moriarty]

I got everyone beat...I'm a Dolphins fan. When your team is absolute shit, there's only one way to go, and that is up (or so I hope). And when your team is 1-15, the most exciting time of year is the draft.

#1 pick: They have so many holes, it's hard to know what to do with it. Ideally, they could trade down to a mid-first and pick up some later picks too. But, ever since Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys raped the Minnesotta Vikings in exchange for Herschel Walker, I just don't think a blockbuster pick swap is ever going to be forthcoming.

In that light, I think the best hope is to pick the best player out there; I'm hoping for LSU's Glen Dorsey. Maybe a stud defensive lineman would entice Jason Taylor to stick it out for another few years.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by Atomicktom

I got everyone beat...I'm a Dolphins fan. When your team is absolute shit, there's only one way to go, and that is up (or so I hope). And when your team is 1-15, the most exciting time of year is the draft.

#1 pick: They have so many holes, it's hard to know what to do with it. Ideally, they could trade down to a mid-first and pick up some later picks too. But, ever since Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys raped the Minnesotta Vikings in exchange for Herschel Walker, I just don't think a blockbuster pick swap is ever going to be forthcoming.

In that light, I think the best hope is to pick the best player out there; I'm hoping for LSU's Glen Dorsey. Maybe a stud defensive lineman would entice Jason Taylor to stick it out for another few years.

You guys need some playmakers on offense, especially a QB. And a WR.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by Ellis Dee

Yeah, I saw on tonight's SportsCenter -- as I sit here buried under almost a foot of snow -- John Clayton talking about how there are at least 3 or 4 teams interested in the same deal for Hall. Since the Giants have the last pick, everyone else's deal is sweeter for Atlanta. Thus there's no way to get Hall straight up. Clayton mentioned they could try to toss in a 3rd rounder, but I'm not down with spending multiple picks on any one player. (Other than a franchise QB, of course.)Absolutely. The Giants got crushed by injuries in 2003, resulting in a 4-12 record, a fired coach, and the dawning of the Eli era. Injuries can take out any team, and unfortunately for the Rams, 2007 was their turn in the barrel.

It's so funny to me that Coughlin was the whipping boy in 2006...with the Tiki episode...and then the "disciplinarian" coach goes on to win the SB over a heavily favored opponent. Sweet justice.

[SenorBeef]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

The fans are right to not like Anderson, because his receivers bail him out, and he isn't very good. His stats were completely padded against my team (Bengals) in that first meeting.

Padded how? The game was in contention until the last drive, it's not like they were running up the score. Padded by getting to play against a terrible defense? Sure, but there are lots of terrible pass defenses and 5 TDs is still fairly rare. Why should his accomplishment count against him?

I'm not Derek Anderson's biggest fan, and he is in a positive situation, but seriously, how often do you see a young kid put up 3800 yards and 29 TDs in their first season as a starter? And for that matter, he wasn't even the starter at the beginning of the season, didn't get all the starter's reps in preseason/practice, etc. People are willing to write this 24 year old kid off as terrible already. Bizarre.

[EsotericEnigma]

To reference the OP, Philly has made a living defensively for nearly a decade now by playing man-to-man with two really good corners, thus freeing up the entire center of the defense for awkward and creative blitz packages. Hell, Philadelphia and Jim Johnson are essentially synonyms for aggressive blitzing schemes. And where did the Giant's defensive coordinator come from?

But I don't understand, what happened to Sam Madison? Wasn't he good? Would Hall be that much of an improvement? I didn't see enough of the Giants to know... but I do know they create a lot of pressure from their two defensive ends, and to match that with the ability to be more aggressive in passing situations because of two really good corners would be something I don't want to even think about.

[kidchameleon]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

People are willing to write this 24 year old kid off as terrible already. Bizarre.

Much like how Tony Romo had been 'figured out' at the end of last year. It's even worse on the Browns because if Anderson turns out to be good, they've 'blown' two first round picks on a back up QB. Unless they can pull a Steve Walsh with Quinn.

An interesting rumor I heard was Dallas sending Carpenter and Spears back to the Tuna in Miami to move up in the draft and get McFadden. I wouldn't mind losing those guys so much, we have quite a lot of depth at LB and DE.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by kidchameleon

Much like how Tony Romo had been 'figured out' at the end of last year. It's even worse on the Browns because if Anderson turns out to be good, they've 'blown' two first round picks on a back up QB. Unless they can pull a Steve Walsh with Quinn.

They haven't blown them. They'll never get full value for him, but I bet by this time next year there will be a half-dozen teams offering top-15 picks for Quinn.

There's nothing more appealing to NFL GMs than a quarterback nobody knows much about.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

They haven't blown them. They'll never get full value for him, but I bet by this time next year there will be a half-dozen teams offering top-15 picks for Quinn.

There's nothing more appealing to NFL GMs than a quarterback nobody knows much about.

Just like NBA GMs and freshmen with "upside". Case in point is Marvin Williams, a second overall pick that didn't even start for UNC. They won the national championship with him as the 6th man. He was the first Tarheel drafted.

[Drain Bead]

I'm a Bills fan. The only move we've had all offseason that I know of was to Toronto.

[Hamlet]

PACKERS

One of the benefits of being in the NFL Championship and having the youngest team in the NFL is that there are generally not many holes to fill. I expect, like last season, the Packers not to do too much in free agency and to continue to build through the draft. So far, the only actions they've taken that I remember off the top of my head is cutting Bubba Franks and placing the franchise tag on Corey Williams, one of their starting DT's. I found the former move obvious and welcome, but the latter one left me scratching my head a bit. Corey Williams is a great, young DT who is just starting to blossom, and I'm happy he's a Packer. But, now slapping the franchise tag on him, I think the Packers chances of signing him to a long term contract are slim. I'm hoping that he doesn't get peevish about the tag, but I'm hoping he'll be nice trade bait.

And, of course the biggest off season question is Brett Favre. I wouldn't be surprised if he retires, because I think it would be tough to match last season; but I also wouldn't be surprised if he came back. Even if he leaves, I think it is pretty clear Aaron Rogers would be the starter. The Pack would have to sign a veteran backup (there's nobody who excites me in the least). They would also grab one in the draft.

The biggest needs this off season, whether draft of free agency, is OG, CB, OLB, and TE. With Faneca looking like he'll be back with the Steelers, Lance Briggs being too expensive and same division, I really don't see any big moves being made for a free agent.

[The Tof]

San Diego Super Charger fan poking his head in.

I don't think this is going to be much of an off-season for us. Typically the off-season is like our Super Bowl. We spend the time getting excited about all of our free-agents and draft picks.

Our GM, AJ Smith, however has proven to be wily with his free agents... preferring to build through the draft and take care of his own. However- the last I saw we do have some good money to spend, so it'll be interesting to see if AJ decides to spend it. We pick late in the draft, without a 2nd round pick this year, so he just may.

We will likely be losing two key players in Lorenzo Neal and Drayton Florence. However, we have heir's to their spots already. (In Drayton's case, his heir took his place midway through the season.)


Offensively, we may need some more consistency on the right side of the OL. So I wouldn't be surprised to see us pick up a solid RT, or maybe somebody to challenge old man Goff at RG.

With the emergence of Jackson (FINALLY!) at the end of the year, and Chambers. Eric Parker coming back and Buster Davis in his 2nd year- our WR's may actually now be a strength, when just this last year they were probably the weakest link. So, no need there.

Rivers finally started showing the benefits of Norv's tough love from early in the year, and I think that this year he may become a star. If nothing else, the struggles from this past year, I suspect are behind him. Set at QB (Although we will likely draft a "3rd" QB as Volek will be gone with Charlie Whitehurst moving into the backup role)

Obviously we are set at running back.

Defensively we are as solid a team in the league. My biggest worry is a solid backup for DT Jamal Williams. When healthy one of the best in the game. The key being, "When Healthy". We have a solid corps of young and worthy LB's, one of the best CB duo's in the league in Jammer and Cromartie. An Up and Comer at Safety in Weddle (a huge gamble for AJ that is paying off.) Needs here are backup DT and a Safety to complement Weddle.

So that is it, our team in a nutshell. If I were planning, I'd go after an OL in free agency and use the draft pick for other needs. Maybe trade down for a couple of lower picks and try to get a S and DT that are raw, which we can groom. AJ's done a good job scouting those guys out, and at this point I totally trust his drafting ability.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by The Tof

San Diego Super Charger fan poking his head in.

I don't think this is going to be much of an off-season for us. Typically the off-season is like our Super Bowl. We spend the time getting excited about all of our free-agents and draft picks.

Our GM, AJ Smith, however has proven to be wily with his free agents... preferring to build through the draft and take care of his own. However- the last I saw we do have some good money to spend, so it'll be interesting to see if AJ decides to spend it. We pick late in the draft, without a 2nd round pick this year, so he just may.

We will likely be losing two key players in Lorenzo Neal and Drayton Florence. However, we have heir's to their spots already. (In Drayton's case, his heir took his place midway through the season.)


Offensively, we may need some more consistency on the right side of the OL. So I wouldn't be surprised to see us pick up a solid RT, or maybe somebody to challenge old man Goff at RG.

With the emergence of Jackson (FINALLY!) at the end of the year, and Chambers. Eric Parker coming back and Buster Davis in his 2nd year- our WR's may actually now be a strength, when just this last year they were probably the weakest link. So, no need there.

Rivers finally started showing the benefits of Norv's tough love from early in the year, and I think that this year he may become a star. If nothing else, the struggles from this past year, I suspect are behind him. Set at QB (Although we will likely draft a "3rd" QB as Volek will be gone with Charlie Whitehurst moving into the backup role)

Obviously we are set at running back.

Defensively we are as solid a team in the league. My biggest worry is a solid backup for DT Jamal Williams. When healthy one of the best in the game. The key being, "When Healthy". We have a solid corps of young and worthy LB's, one of the best CB duo's in the league in Jammer and Cromartie. An Up and Comer at Safety in Weddle (a huge gamble for AJ that is paying off.) Needs here are backup DT and a Safety to complement Weddle.

So that is it, our team in a nutshell. If I were planning, I'd go after an OL in free agency and use the draft pick for other needs. Maybe trade down for a couple of lower picks and try to get a S and DT that are raw, which we can groom. AJ's done a good job scouting those guys out, and at this point I totally trust his drafting ability.

Yeah you guys are a pretty complete team. I get worried about River's decision-making sometimes, but I never could figure out if it was because the Bolts never had a playmaker besides Gates to catch the ball or not. I think the Chargers still need a burner at WR.
How's their saftey septh? Is Kiel gone, or was he just suspended for that cough medicine thingie?
It's funny...I am a Bengals fan and we have had an absolutely disastrous run dating back to the second half of last season...losing games we should have won, having to have DE's play LB due to massive LB injuries, player suspensions, Oline problems, top 3 RB's all injured...
And when I read about the solidity of a roster like the Chargers, I can't help but be envious, and hope that we can someday pay you back for being the catalyst that started our slide with that second-half debacle loss we had at your hands almost nigh two years ago now!

[The Tof]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

Yeah you guys are a pretty complete team. I get worried about River's decision-making sometimes, but I never could figure out if it was because the Bolts never had a playmaker besides Gates to catch the ball or not. I think the Chargers still need a burner at WR.

Rivers started playing a lot better near the end of the season. Norv really refused to compromise with Rivers and gave him a lot of responsibility. He struggled, but really started putting it together. I think it will make him a better player in the long run.

Theoretically Vincent Jackson can be that burner. He has shown flashes, but never was able to put it together. I don't know if he is fast enough, he certainly is huge. He was never able to emerge though, but finally int he playoffs he seemed to figure it out. Eric Parker is a hugely underrated possession guy. He had the worst game of his life two seasons ago in our Patriot loss. But he's normally so reliable and can catch anything. So, his coming back will help us a lot. So, even without a Burner, we'll have a lot of weapons running routes.

How's their saftey septh? Is Kiel gone, or was he just suspended for that cough medicine thingie?

Our starters are Marlon McCree and Clinton Hart. Weddle is waiting in the wings to take over a starting spot. AFter that, pickings are pretty slim. Kiel, I believe, was cut before before the season before this last one.. but I can't be 100% sure on that. We definitely didn't have him this season. Like I mentioned, I'd like a Safety. Clinton Hart is OK, and McCree is a hard hitter, but is getting older. Bottom line, this is an area that needs addressed.

It's funny...I am a Bengals fan and we have had an absolutely disastrous run dating back to the second half of last season...losing games we should have won, having to have DE's play LB due to massive LB injuries, player suspensions, Oline problems, top 3 RB's all injured...
And when I read about the solidity of a roster like the Chargers, I can't help but be envious, and hope that we can someday pay you back for being the catalyst that started our slide with that second-half debacle loss we had at your hands almost nigh two years ago now!

That was a crazy game. I remember just laughing at the ridiculousness of that game in the first half, because it was so out of control in the Bengals favor. I almost missed the second half, because I was going to find something better to do with my time.

We got lucky that AJ turned out to be a very good GM. But everything is cyclical. You guys will have your day

[Omniscient]

OK, this is probably going to be a pretty wild-and-woolly off-season for the Bears. I'm going to break it up into sections for review.

Secondary
We are pretty much locked up at this position. Both CBs, Vasher and Tillman, were signed to long-term extensions during last season at a fairly reasonable price. It's nice not having a hole there, but we are pretty much married to them and they didn't play up to expectations last season. Hopefully with a healthy team around them they'll bounce back to Pro Bowl form. The vastly overrated Ricky Manning Jr. is also locked up at safety for another 4 years, we'll see if he survives the off-season. Archuleta is almost certainly on the chopping block too, thank god. Mike Brown is in the last year of his contract, not sure if they intend to offer him an extension prior to the start of this year, personally I hope they wait for him to prove he can stay healthy. The Bears always draft a couple DBs in the middle rounds of the draft and I wouldn't be surprised to see them add some depth this year as well. They have too much money tied up in the secondary to add any Free Agents though.

Linebackers
Urlacher and Hillenmeyer are both signed long term and won't be going anywhere, though we could desperately use an infusion of youth at the LB position. Briggs probably won't be back even though he's softened his stance and said he'd be open to coming back. Typically the Bears don't respond well to players playing hardball, so it's probably a long shot for him to come back. The Bears have far too much money invested in their defense. They need to get some cheap production from a young guy somewhere. With luck they'll find one in the draft because we certainly don't have anyone on the roster now who can replace him.

Defensive Line
We were extremely soft in the middle this season with the mass exodus after the Super Bowl and injuries made that even worse. Tommie Harris is the key but he needs help. Darwin Walker is gone and no one on the roster showed signs of life. This is a higher priority than replacing Briggs and if they add a free agent it's has to be a DT. I'd give my left nut to trade up to draft Glenn Dorsey, but that's a total pipe dream since the Bears trade down, not up as a rule. We're in better shape at End. Ogunleye is very solid and Alex Brown, just extended, and Mark Anderson make up a really good pass rush platoon.

Offensive Line
Starters Ruben Brown and Fred Miller are both gone and there's no apparent solution in place to replace them, O-Line was one of the team biggest problems for them last year, so parting ways with these guys makes perfect sense, but I had hoped that by this point we'd have a gameplan towards improving. The backups St. Clair and Metcalf have shown flashes, but I'm not comfortable putting our entire season on them. There's lots of talk about the Bears bringing in Alan Faneca which would go a long ways to getting the running game back on track but it still leaves a big hole at Tackle. If there's a quality OT in the draft you can guarantee that the Bears draft him. Ryan Clady would be a blessing if he fell to us.

Receivers
The Bears just resigned Desmond Clark to a 2-year deal which is a little confusing. I like the guy but we drafted Olsen in the first round and should be getting to a point where he's the starter. Olsen has performed well when he got chances and his ceiling is way higher than Clark. Not sure what they are paying Clark, but I hope it doesn't hurt our ability to resign Berrian. Berrian is probably our top priority FA and the loss of Mushin Muhammad makes retaining him crucial. We should be able to retain him because this year's WR FA class is pretty deep holding his price down a bit. I'd love to see the Bears make a run at Jerry Porter as well. He seems like a nice gamble who could be gotten at a bargain and would look good opposite Berrian. The Bears need to stay healthy at WR and I suspect they'll try and build depth late in the draft,

Running Backs
I could just rant and rave here, but I just don't have the energy. Cedric Benson has completely destroyed my will to live. We can't even afford to cut the scumbag because of the contract his holdout landed him. I hope he gets polio. Our only prayer is if we can secure a RB in the draft, but we can't afford to take one in the first 2 rounds. It's a deep class so we might get lucky and get Steve Slaton in the 3rd round. My dream of getting Mendenhall is just not going to happen.

Quarterback
I'm saving this for last because I can barely get my mind around the fact that we just resigned Rex-fucking-Grossman. Now, logically I understand it. There really isn't anyone else out there that's realistic and they signed him to a small, one year deal. He's not assured the starting spot and I do think he has ability. His problem has always been that fact that he's simply too dumb to play the position. Part of me remembers those beautiful deep balls he dropped in Berrian's hands every other game in 2006 and I hope that the coaching staff can brow beat him into limiting the turnovers. Forcing an INT is one thing, fumbling a snap or getting stripepd from behind every key play is just too crippling and soul sucking. The real question is what is our other alternative. There's no way we're trading for McNabb based on what the Eagles are asking for him. Derek Anderson would have been a nice gamble but as a RFA we'd have to give up a 1st and 3rd rounder, which is too much for a guy with those question marks. This is easily the weakest QB FA class I have ever seen. One look at the available list of QBs convinces me that the Dolphins have to draft Matt Ryan at #1.

Overall I'm not very optimistic about this Bears season. We have a lot of talent and we've got the flexibility to fill our holes. We need some coaching changes, I'm not sure I can handle another season with Ron turner. I think we can fix our problems on the O-line and D-line in the draft. I think we can replace Briggs and Muhammad. However Benson and Grossman are featured prominently in any plans, which is a recipe for disaster. Unless we're able to draft a sleeper RB and find a good project QB how can start next season in the middle rounds (extremely unlikely) we're not going to be able to return the Super Bowl any time soon.

This sucks.

[SenorBeef]

Darren McFadden just ran a 4.27 40 at the combine.

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

Our only prayer is if we can secure a RB in the draft, but we can't afford to take one in the first 2 rounds.

Yeah, I personally don't think any team can afford to take a RB in the first two rounds simply because I don't feel any RB is worth it. Sure, there's always going to be an occasional Ladainian Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson, but when it gets down to it the later round picks can easily be solid players. Hell, Curtis Martin was a 3rd rounder.

I'd point to the Giants backfield during the 07 training camp as an example:

Brandon Jacobs, 4th rounder (and you hate him anyway)
Derrick Ward, 7th rounder
Ahmad Bradshaw, 7th rounder
Ryan Grant, undrafted free agent

It is clearly possible to build a formidable stable of running backs without ever spending a first-day pick and without signing a high-priced free agent. Not to mention the fact that both Ward and Bradshaw return kicks. (Not that you need help with that, but still.)

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by Ellis Dee

Yeah, I personally don't think any team can afford to take a RB in the first two rounds simply because I don't feel any RB is worth it. Sure, there's always going to be an occasional Ladainian Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson, but when it gets down to it the later round picks can easily be solid players. Hell, Curtis Martin was a 3rd rounder.

I'd point to the Giants backfield during the 07 training camp as an example:

Brandon Jacobs, 4th rounder (and you hate him anyway)
Derrick Ward, 7th rounder
Ahmad Bradshaw, 7th rounder
Ryan Grant, undrafted free agent

It is clearly possible to build a formidable stable of running backs without ever spending a first-day pick and without signing a high-priced free agent. Not to mention the fact that both Ward and Bradshaw return kicks. (Not that you need help with that, but still.)

Yeah, however Angelo is simply incapable of scouting running backs. He can identify defensive players, but the guy has never drafted a productive running back in his career (he did draft Warrick Dunn, but I'd argue he wasn't worth the 12th overall pick). Expecting the same guy who drafted Cedric Benson 4th overall to identify a stable of late rounders is like asking Parcells to teach a sensitivity course. If I thought he was capable of picking a effective feature back I'd support him using a first round pick, so long as it means I never have to heard Cedric Bensons name called again.

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

Angelo is simply incapable of scouting running backs.

It's funny how some GM's just seem to have blind spots. Ernie Accorsi may have been a genius at scouting defensive ends, but he was terrible at wide receivers and cornerbacks. Tim Carter, Ron Dixon, Jamaar Taylor, Sinorice Moss, Willie Ponder, Will Allen, William Peterson, Frank Walker, Curtis Deloatch...ugh.

In just one year Jerry Reese is making me feel a lot more comfortable about the Giants drafting cornerbacks and wide receivers, with both Aaron Ross and Steve Smith looking pretty good. Then again, he moved Mathias Kiwanuka from DE to OLB with mixed results at best, and he didn't bring in a quality fourth DE. I sure hope DE isn't one of his blind spots, but even if it is, Osi, Tuck and Kiwi are still young.

The biggest move I want to see is moving Kiwanuka back to DE. When Reggie Torbor stepping in is a clear upgrade, there is a gaping hole in your defense.

[Omniscient]

On this topic I decided to do some digging and look at Jerry Angelo's track record with RBs.

It appears that his first draft pick was in 1986 for Tampa Bay, one Bo Jackson, selected #1 overall. Bo didn't want to play for the Bucs and decided to play baseball instead. I wonder if that bad experience has turned Jerry into a bitter, angry, scorned lover when it comes to scouting RBs. Every time he tries to turn on tape of a college running back his lips begin to quiver and his hands clench and unclench before he whips the remote against the wall and storms out.

Since that Bo Jackson debacle he's drafted exactly 20 RBs in 21 seasons making up this immortal list:

Mike Crawford, Steve Bartalo, Don Smith, William Howard, Lars Tate, Patrick Egu, Jamie Lawson, Derrick Douglas, Reggie Cobb, Mazio Royster, Rudy Harris, Errict Rhett, Warrick Dunn, Autry Denson, Anthony Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Brock Forsey, Cedric Benson, J.D. Runnels, Garrett Wolfe.

I mean, wow, that throws it into contrast don't it?

His track record of first rounders, which should be the closest to a sure thing, was Bo, who he couldn't even convince to show up. Warrick Dunn, who has been pretty solid but probably not worthy of a 12th overall pick. And finally the corpse known as Cedric Benson with the 4th overall pick. Nice job Jerry!

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

Mike Crawford, Steve Bartalo, Don Smith, William Howard, Lars Tate, Patrick Egu, Jamie Lawson, Derrick Douglas, Reggie Cobb, Mazio Royster, Rudy Harris, Errict Rhett, Warrick Dunn, Autry Denson, Anthony Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Brock Forsey, Cedric Benson, J.D. Runnels, Garrett Wolfe.

Wow. Just...wow.

[Omniscient]

I feel like the disaster that has been Bears quarterbacking under Angelo should probably be mentioned as well, I mean we did just resign Rex Grossman afterall.

Jerry's history of QB selections:

Mike Shula, Vinny Testaverde, Pat O'Hara, Mike Pawlawski, Craig Erickson, Trent Dilfer, Shaun King, Joe Hamilton, Rex Grossman, Craig Krenzel, Kyle Orton.

I'll give him props for Vinny, but generally this confirms the point that there's inverse relationship between time spent touching the ball and Jerry's ability to evaluate them. Not sure he wants to put that on his next CV.

[gonzomax]

Originally Posted by Atomicktom

I got everyone beat...I'm a Dolphins fan. When your team is absolute shit, there's only one way to go, and that is up (or so I hope). And when your team is 1-15, the most exciting time of year is the draft.

#1 pick: They have so many holes, it's hard to know what to do with it. Ideally, they could trade down to a mid-first and pick up some later picks too. But, ever since Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys raped the Minnesotta Vikings in exchange for Herschel Walker, I just don't think a blockbuster pick swap is ever going to be forthcoming.

In that light, I think the best hope is to pick the best player out there; I'm hoping for LSU's Glen Dorsey. Maybe a stud defensive lineman would entice Jason Taylor to stick it out for another few years.

Only one way to go is up? The Lions have stayed down for 40 years. Crappy level to maintain but we can do it. You can stay down a long time with bad management and crappy coaching.

[furt]

Iggles fan here.

Much as I hate to say it because it makes the Philly talk-radio jackballs think they've won, I think it might be time for the Kevin Kolb era.

if we can get a good package of picks, we should take it.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by furt

if we can get a good package of picks, we should take it.

There's the rub. I think McNabb's time in Philly is done, but the Eagles are asking for multiple first-round picks from a team who's getting the privilege of paying injury prone McNabb $10 million a year. Not too many franchises are going to make that move. At this point in his career McNabb is seriously overpaid, for a team to acquire him they are essentially doing the Eagles a favor. If I were a GM I'd tell the Iggles to eat shit if they asked for a bundle of draft picks.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Is this to be about free agency or trades or whatever, and specifically excluding the draft?

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by Oslo Ostragoth

Is this to be about free agency or trades or whatever, and specifically excluding the draft?

The separation is temporal, not topical. So here is fine for draft discussion, but as we move into April look for a dedicated draft thread. Those usually turn into a multi-page play-by-play commentaries while the draft is happening.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

On this topic I decided to do some digging and look at Jerry Angelo's track record with RBs.

It appears that his first draft pick was in 1986 for Tampa Bay, one Bo Jackson, selected #1 overall. Bo didn't want to play for the Bucs and decided to play baseball instead. I wonder if that bad experience has turned Jerry into a bitter, angry, scorned lover when it comes to scouting RBs. Every time he tries to turn on tape of a college running back his lips begin to quiver and his hands clench and unclench before he whips the remote against the wall and storms out.

Since that Bo Jackson debacle he's drafted exactly 20 RBs in 21 seasons making up this immortal list:

Mike Crawford, Steve Bartalo, Don Smith, William Howard, Lars Tate, Patrick Egu, Jamie Lawson, Derrick Douglas, Reggie Cobb, Mazio Royster, Rudy Harris, Errict Rhett, Warrick Dunn, Autry Denson, Anthony Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Brock Forsey, Cedric Benson, J.D. Runnels, Garrett Wolfe.

I mean, wow, that throws it into contrast don't it?

His track record of first rounders, which should be the closest to a sure thing, was Bo, who he couldn't even convince to show up. Warrick Dunn, who has been pretty solid but probably not worthy of a 12th overall pick. And finally the corpse known as Cedric Benson with the 4th overall pick. Nice job Jerry!

The Bears shouldn't have let Thomas Jones go....
And Grossman indeed sucks.
Da Bears have a good to great defense...if their top secondary players stop getting hurt for long stretches.
Their offense is in a world of hurt right now, with Benson, Grossman and an underwhelming WR cadre.
I wonder if the Bears will look to draft a QB high or if they will go FA...McNabb would be an upgrade if available, but SO costly it may not be worth it.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by furt

Iggles fan here.

Much as I hate to say it because it makes the Philly talk-radio jackballs think they've won, I think it might be time for the Kevin Kolb era.

if we can get a good package of picks, we should take it.

You're awfully polite...you sure you're an Eagles fan?

<<ducks batteries>>

[Slacker]

Dish Network is moving the NFL Network up a tier, apparently in retaliation for the NFL allowing other networks to carry the Giants/Patriots game in week 17 last year.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/...dustryid=47199

Fortunately I'm safe, as I'm a Top 200 subscriber already for many compelling reasons*.



*Ok I admit it. It's pretty much just so we can watch Project Runway, ok?