Top ranked school or funding?

[Kyla]

First of all, I'm sorry if you're tired of me splashing my angst about my grad school applications all over the SDMB. I am just not sure where else to get advice from. (My colleagues' idea of giving me advice is telling me that I could go to grad school in Bulgaria. NO.)

The title pretty much covers it. I've been admitted to three graduate programs that US News and World Report has on their Top 50 list for my field (public affairs/policy), including one that is ranked very, very highly. All of these are without upfront funding. (And they're all at large public universities in states where I'm not a resident. Stupid Illinois doesn't have a public policy program.)

Today I just got my acceptance letter to my safety school (also a perfectly acceptable large public university, just that their public policy program isn't ranked at all) - and I got full funding.

TELL ME WHAT TO DO, DOPERS. Should I saddle myself with debt to get a top education, or should I go the cheap way and get a less-than-fancy degree? I was already freaking out about what school to choose before I this happened, now I'm...well, freaking out more. I need advice from people who have had to make similar decisions. Opinions from people who hire employees would also be highly valued.

THANK YOU.

[Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party]

Heh, I was in this position last year. I got accepted at two great univiersities without funding, and one with a lesser reputation with funding. I went with the funding, and so far it's worked out great.

Your supervisor is the main concern. Get a good supervisor, and the reputation of the school doesn't really matter all that much. Your supervisor has contacts and can introduce your work to people he knows.

Disclaimer: I'm in the UK.

[gfloyd]

Assuming that it's a research based degree (forgive my ignorance of your field), it's all about your adviser. Can you work with them, doing something that's meaningful to you? Will they help you get a good job?

I got into the top school in my field, and turned them down because I hated the culture there and dislike all of the groups. I'm at a smaller school, with an adviser I love, doing research I really enjoy. And his students go on and get good post docs (usually needed in my field) and then good, well paying jobs.

My undergraduate adviser told me when I was struggling with my choices, that all a fancy degree does is make it easier to get your first set of interviews. It won't get you a job, though. You'll get that based on what you have done and what you can do. And after that first job, it really won't matter much at all.

You might want to look into fellowships, as there are a lot out there, particularly for women and minorities. Often times you can use the same or similar essays and such as you did for grad school.

[Kyla]

Thank you for your replies. This may sound like a really dumb question, but how should I figure out who my advisor would be? Should I just email the department and ask?

ETA: I forgot to mention, this is for a masters degree, not a PhD. I have zero interest in being an academic - I want to work in international development.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Originally Posted by Kyla

Thank you for your replies. This may sound like a really dumb question, but how should I figure out who my advisor would be? Should I just email the department and ask?

It's usually a mutual agreement between you and the professor. You find a professor whose interests align with your own, convince them that your own research would be interesting to them, and then hopefully they agree to take you on. A lot of brilliant scholars are not necessarily at top=tier* schools, so if you get to study under one of them the school itself matters less. (*Sorry my dash key is broken.)

[noctilucent]

Originally Posted by Kyla

Thank you for your replies. This may sound like a really dumb question, but how should I figure out who my advisor would be? Should I just email the department and ask?

ETA: I forgot to mention, this is for a masters degree, not a PhD. I have zero interest in being an academic - I want to work in international development.

In my experience, grad programs tend not to accept students unless someone (faculty) has expressed an interest in being your mentor, because it's frankly a helluva responsibility. This is true even if you've been given full funding. In that case, the department/program will already have someone assigned to you. You can write them and ask who it is.

If not, go to the web site for the department/program you're applying to. Read the bios on the various faculty members and see whose interests seem closest to your own. Send them an email.

Heck, even if the dept has assigned you to someone already, go ahead and email that person. If you haven't visited the campus and spoken with faculty already, you'll want some interaction BEFORE you show up, to have some idea how you'll enjoy your time there.

[robardin]

Originally Posted by Kyla

I forgot to mention, this is for a masters degree, not a PhD. I have zero interest in being an academic - I want to work in international development.

In that case let me buck the trend by suggesting you do give more serious weight to the "Q factor" of the school you go to. As your undergrad adviser said, all a fancy degree does is make it easier to get your first set of interviews, but if this is your last degree in your field, that is a pretty valuable thing. And going for a Master's program, as opposed to a PhD, is less of an "adviser helping with a showcase thesis" thing than finishing advanced coursework and a reasonably difficult thesis.

If you actually cannot afford grad school without the funding then your choice is restricted, but if you can squeeze by a year or two or however long it would take you to finish the Master's full time, I'd say the "name school" aspect would pay for itself over time (over the first 5, maybe 10 years of your career anyway; after that, experience and track record count more than credentials).

Disclaimer: this is based on technical fields I'm more familiar with; I personally have no idea what the field of "Public Affairs/Policy" covers, much less what the work involved in an undergrad or graduate program in the field would be like, or how it weighs in getting a job in said field later. But what your undergrad adviser said jibes with my experience, and the other advice given already also jibes with me if they all assumed you were entering a PhD program.

[China Guy]

The question is which institution is going to get you the job/career you want when you graduate? all other considerations are a distant second. You spend 2 years at grad school and the rest of your life working. Granted, a free ride at Grad School is a definate consideration, but a semi-free ride should not be.

Not sure about your field, but the 80-20 rule probably applies. 80% of the jobs go to the top 20 schools. Hell, 79% of the jobs that you want probably go to the top 5 schools.

Again, a truely free ride is definately worth a consideration versus coming out $100k in debt. But a non-top 5 school to save $30k, is probably not going to be worth it in the long run.

[Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party]

Yeah, sorry. My advice was predicated on the assumption that you were doing a PhD. I have no idea of how things work with MSc's, but I suspect it's more like undergraduate degrees, where reputations of schools matter a lot.

[noctilucent]

Originally Posted by robardin

In that case let me buck the trend by suggesting you do give more serious weight to the "Q factor" of the school you go to. As your undergrad adviser said, all a fancy degree does is make it easier to get your first set of interviews, but if this is your last degree in your field, that is a pretty valuable thing. And going for a Master's program, as opposed to a PhD, is less of an "adviser helping with a showcase thesis" thing than finishing advanced coursework and a reasonably difficult thesis.

But this really depends on the nature of the program. If it's 2 years of classwork, no thesis, then it doesn't matter who your adviser is - and then going for a name school with less support would be beneficial.

However, if the program requires a written thesis of some kind, you better believe the adviser can make a difference. Having to write a thesis might mean that all of a sudden, you're not just looking at 2 years of school, but as long as it takes to get your thesis done - and to a significant degree, whether that happens will depend on how demanding/helpful/absent your adviser is. If you have little or no financial support and your master's program gets extended, you can find yourself in the position of having to leave your program early to get a job. I've seen this happen plenty of times, and not just for PhD students.

The OP needs to take the whole array of factors into consideration.

[Kyla]

Originally Posted by China Guy

Again, a truely free ride is definately worth a consideration versus coming out $100k in debt. But a non-top 5 school to save $30k, is probably not going to be worth it in the long run.

It'd probably be more like $50k for the two years at the top five school, although of course I'd have my finger crossed that I get some funding in my second year.

ETA: And I wouldn't have to write a thesis.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I really, really appreciate it.

[capybara]

Originally Posted by gfloyd

My undergraduate adviser told me when I was struggling with my choices, that all a fancy degree does is make it easier to get your first set of interviews. It won't get you a job, though.

If you want to go into academia, this might be important to consider. I had two offers heading into PhD programs-- one from a top tier school (say, ranked 5th in my field) that was being a bit cagey about funding and was in a location I wasn't keen on and had a competitive culture, and one from a bottom-of-the-first-tier/top of the second (say, ranked 20th) that drove a truckload of money up to my doorstep and was a freaking love-fest located in paradise. I picked the second, and had a wonderful grad school experience, and now am in my fourth year on the job market, whee! That first set of interviews step is a doozy. Knowing what I know now I would choose the same path, but it hasn't been easy after graduation, although I have no idea if the other school would have made a difference-- might just be the market.

[HazelNutCoffee]

For what it's worth, I got my MA at a top-tier school and the name value does help. The only people I've lost jobs to, after the interview stage, are people from my own school. (Word gets around.)

[Dinsdale]

I'm regularly surprised at how much emphasis employers put on name schools. And it seems to be increasing. Just my experience as a long-time federal agency employee.
If you are considering gov't employment, $50K debt might not be unworkable. You'll just need to be aggressive in paying it down. If you are looking at NFPs, it might be different. But still, the no-name degree might not even get you in the door.

[Maeglin]

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume you got into SIPA. If you did, go. If you are solid, the connections you will make there are worth the ticket price. That is, in my never humble opinion, the only reason to get your masters in a field like that.

[Voyager]

First of all, does the school you got into offer PhDs? I ask because I'm surprised that someone applying for a terminal Masters would get funding at all. In my experience PhD students get funding, because the faculty will use them in publishing and in working on grants.

Ordinarily I'd say go with the place with the best adviser, but if you aren't going to write an MS thesis, even, I doubt any professor is going to spend a lot of time on you. Some schools have special relationships with certain local employers - if the school you are talking about does, that might help. If not, a higher rated school might make a difference for an MS.

As for the value of an advanced degree, I don't know about your field, but when the part of Bell Labs where I used to work didn't even look at B.S. people. We'd take good M.S. people, but preferred PhDs. So you need to figure out the education profile for places where you might like to work.

[Kyla]

Maeglin, it's not SIPA (private school in NYC? I'd never dig myself out of the debt) - it's SPEA at Indiana, the number three ranked program in the country, right after Harvard.

I did a lot of thinking last night, and I guess I feel like I want to go to IU and risk the debt - I just want someone else to provide the rationalization for me.

[China Guy]

Risk the debt. If you start out making $5k more per year because of the "name", which is definately possible, over a lifetime that's a lot of cash.

[Dinsdale]

Originally Posted by China Guy

Risk the debt. If you start out making $5k more per year because of the "name", which is definately possible, over a lifetime that's a lot of cash.

Like I said - it could be more than that, because without the name, you might not even get invited to interview.

[Harriet the Spry]

I think your plan sounds good. It might be a good idea to let them know you want to actively pursue funding. IME there is a lot of funding out there for people motivated to pursue it. It helps to have skills that are applicable in an academic environment. Do they need a TA to teach Bulgarian? (j/k, mostly). Don't just talk to the department, but also the graduate school deans office and financial aid office and other departments that might be likely to need your skills. You may be able to have your cake and eat it, too.

[Hippy Hollow]

I'll also buck the trend of "go with the funding." For a masters degree, nobody is likely to care or even ask about your adviser, even with a thesis requirement. Lord knows I never have.

If you are looking at schools in the same tier - one is a few slots up compared to the other, they're likely to have similar reputations. Your description, though, makes it sound that there's a considerable gap between the schools you got in to, and the full ride institution.

What are your plans? An eventual doctorate? A selective position in a selective organization? If so, I would give serious consideration to attending the best school you can get in to. Reputations do matter, and it's just that much easier to climb the ladder if you're a few rungs up. If you qualify for federal loans, the repayment terms are quite reasonable. Just live modestly during your program - get a hall director position, for example, to reduce or eliminate costs for rent.

What opportunities exist at the different schools? Do you have internship opportunities that are equivalent at both places? What alternative funding sources (being a TA, working on a research project, consulting) exist? I went to the top grad school in my field with a pittance of promised grant aid, but after talking to current students I learned that there were many opportunities to earn cash for school - it was really up to the student to decide what they wanted to do. I got grant aid from outside organizations and worked through school as a TA. The end result was that I got two job offers after being on the market for less than a few weeks - I like to think that it was because I was such a super guy, but let's be honest - my school's reputation definitely helped.

Last thing I'll say is that taking loans out so you can go to school full-time, unencumbered with outside responsibilities, might be a very good idea. You will probably finish faster, have the ability to get involved in projects and activities that are great experience wise, but don't pay. And if you're going to make a good salary at the end of the degree and you have no debt, it's definitely a worthwhile investment. If you're going to start your own NGO after finishing, that might create an issue for you.

[Kyla]

Thank you all so much for your advice. I emailed a couple of random people in institutions I would like to work for asking for advice, and hopefully some kind person with a couple of extra minutes in their will respond. I'm also going to write to Indiana asking them to please, please consider me for funding. (I know I didn't get funding for the first round of offers, but there's a second round in April.)