2008 academic job search check in

[capybara]

[Think of it like one of those 'pregnant doper' check in threads, except that this process takes longer and is more painful].

So, April's here. How are things going? Let's celebrate and commiserate. Hopefully celebrate. Anyone get any good news yet this time 'round through the meat grinder? Perhaps we can award prizes for most applications sent out or the most frequent flier miles scored from interview trips?

I had several phone interviews, a couple of conference interviews, and two campus interviews this time-- better than in years past--but I'm still waiting for the final outcomes,which hopefully should be any day. I'm staring at the phone all the time trying to impel it to ring.

So how's it with you? Any horror stories?
(I managed to have a flight delayed long enough to miss a connection on the way to a campus, thereby arriving at the airport 6 hours late (midnight) at the airport 45 minutes by car from the college town-- I did at least manage to track down the home phone of the person who was picking me up (search chair) during the long layover. Oy vey.)

[Angua]

I've had nothing yet. Not even any rejections. But I bet it won't be as easy as landing the current job...

[NunOfTheAbove]

I'm on a job search, but it is to get AWAY from academia. I love teaching, but I can really live without all the rest...

[Fretful Porpentine]

50+ applications, too many unsuccessful interviews, nothing in hand. I got narrowly beaten out for the tenure-track job at the school where I'm a VAP, and I'm starting to think that if I can't make it here, I'm not going to be able to make it anywhere.

Horror story #1: Friday campus interview in a remote part of Michigan, connecting flight in Chicago. Initial flight, on Thursday, cancelled because of weather; I get booked onto an earlier flight, find a film to keep my freshman comp class amused, and drive to the metrotrain station in the middle of an ice storm. Flight leaves four hours late. By the time I get into Chicago, the connecting flight has been cancelled. Airline puts me up in a hotel at the "distressed traveler rate." ("You sound distressed, all right," said the search chair when I called him.) I get onto the morning flight to Michigan as a standby passenger and call the search chair again to tell him the news. Turns out that the entire campus is closed because of the weather -- can I stay over the weekend and interview on Monday? Sure. What the heck, I'll treat it as a mini-vacation. Nothing like a long weekend in Michigan in the snow. The department helps me treat it as a mini-vacation, taking me out to several nice restaurants and a rock concert, so I can't really complain.

I interview on Monday, and everything seems to be going fine until early afternoon, when the chair calls me into his office and points, wordlessly, to the American Airlines web site. My flight is cancelled. Again.

I spend the night in Flint, the nearest city with an airport, frantically e-mailing my freshman comp students to reschedule the next day's conferences. And after all that? Two months of silence from the department and, finally, a rejection.

Horror story #2: One-hour teaching demo followed by an immediate interview with the department. The entire department. For an hour and a half. By the end of it, I'm exhausted, shaking from low blood sugar, and I desperately need to pee because they gave me a bottle of water before the teaching demo and I, in my nervousness, drank it all. The search chair's interviewing tactics are, moreover, bizarre. Mostly, they consist of quoting excerpts from my letters of recommendation and asking me to react to them; there is NO gracious way to handle this, and since rec letters are supposed to be confidential, I'm not even sure it's ethical.

Finally, he asks "One of your recommenders describes you as an 'intellectual gadfly'; can you please give some examples of exactly how you have been a gadfly?" I veer between hysterical laughter and helpless gibbering for a few minutes, and finally say point blank that I'm really uncomfortable with the question and not sure how to answer it. Bzzt. I haven't gotten the official rejection letter yet, but I don't think there's any doubt that I screwed it up. When I saw one of the committee members at a conference last weekend, he wouldn't even look me in the eye.

AARGHH. I'm exhausted and demoralized, and I really thought this was going to be my year. Now that I've got a couple of publications and a year as full-time faculty under my belt, I think I've got to accept that it is my personality and interview skills that are killing me, and not any weakness in my application materials, so the rejections feel worse this time around. (By the way, is anybody else really SICK of being told "Just be yourself"? What if your true self happens to be a socially awkward freak? What then?)

Um, yeah. Thanks for giving me a place to vent. I think I needed one.

[cher3]

I remember those. I really feel for all of you. My last job search was no picnic, but at least if I had a bad interview it only lasted an hour, at most. And I got to pick where I wanted to live.

My worst moment in an academic interview was my very first research presentation in front of the faculty and an audience of students. I hadn't thought to have some water ready and partway into it I developed one of those devasting dry tickles in the throat that make it impossible to speak. And not one bloody person in the entire room thought to bring me something to drink. I finally had to stop, go out into the hall, and find a drinking fountain on my own.

Then of course there's the interviews with individual faculty members, from the newest hotshot who probably sees you as competition, to the old should-be-emeritus, who's still taking up space, but hasn't published anything in 20 years. All of whom have secret feuds, resentments and loathings you are not privy to.

Good luck to everyone, but do remember to look outside the box, too. There are places you can use your skills that don't require quite as much sacrifice of your personal life.

[capybara]

Aw, Fretful! You sound like even more of a mess today than I am!
In any case, it's not entirely you, it's this shit market. This is my fourth year on the market, if that makes you feel any better. But rant away. Your horror stories are much more horrible than mine.

Oh, a good moment: while at my discipline's big convention interview meat market, trying to find some people who are supposed to interview me, I run into one of the committee members from the campus I'd visited the week before, apparently also trying to find some people who are supposed to interview *him*. Like the proverbial Baptists in the liquor store: "Oh, hi. How are you" "I am fine, and you?" "Oh fine. Enjoy the city! Ta!" Not a good sign of departmental contentment there?

[NunOfTheAbove]

Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine

What if your true self happens to be a socially awkward freak? What then?)

Don't be so hard on yourself.

You teach, which means you have outstanding people skills. Be the 'you' that's in front of a class, where you are not allowed to be awkward or lack confidence.

I hope things work out for you -

[vivalostwages]

I can't relocate --for several reasons I won't bother going into--but I did apply for an FT position where I am already teaching PT. The new electronic scan-it-all- and-attach-it process was a PITA.
That's all I'm going to say for now.

[Fretful Porpentine]

Originally Posted by NunOfTheAbove

Don't be so hard on yourself.

You teach, which means you have outstanding people skills. Be the 'you' that's in front of a class, where you are not allowed to be awkward or lack confidence.

I hope things work out for you -

Ah, but I never said that I teach well

But thanks.

[Soul]

It's going well for me. I graduate in May with a Sociology degree, and things are looking good.

I've turned down one job offer with The Fund for Public Interest Research (an excellent sounding job, but neither the pay nor the hours would have cut it for me). Teach For America is going to be getting in touch with me on April 18th to let me know if they'll be offering me a job, and I really feel like I nailed that interview. I'm also investigating the possibility of being a Juvenile Probation/Parole II Specialist for the state -- I made a 93 on the state Criminal Justice exam, and the cutoff for employment in that particular position is a 90, so I think I could get in alright.

Best of luck to everyone else going through the grinder! Many positive thoughts to the lot.


ETA: Of course, I completely misread the topic. My job search has nothing to do with academia, except that I'm getting out of the student side of it. Oh well, good luck to all of you anyway

[sinjin]

Oh, Fretfull, please, please, please get a new person to write you a recommendation.

"One of your recommenders describes you as an 'intellectual gadfly'; can you please give some examples of exactly how you have been a gadfly?"

This is not a nice thing to say about an academic. And if the person who wrote it was trying to be funny or cute they were not. The folks I knew who were really on my side sent me drafts of their letters of recommendation before they sent them and asked if I wanted them changed.

[Harriet the Spry]

Ditto sinjin. If you don't know who said it, have a face to face chat with your recommenders and ask if they are comfortable giving you a strong recommendation. If they can only make shifty eye contact, don't list them as a reference anymore.

Any chance the interviewer was just making it up? Not a very ethical interview tactic, but perhaps a possibility.

[Fretful Porpentine]

No, I know for a fact that they weren't making it up; I also know that in the context of the letter, it was intended as a compliment (the most famous intellectual gadfly was, after all, Socrates, and I'm inclined to think he's rather good company ) Trust me, I'm sufficiently familiar with the contents of my letters (I have my ways...) to know there's nothing damaging in there.

[sinjin]

Ok, I guess different strokes for different disciplines.

[Galena]

Phew...reading this makes me worry. I'll be doing a "2009 academic job search", and I don't know what's more terrifying - finishing the dissertation or going looking for a job. Probably the job search. Any advice to someone soon to follow in your footsteps?

(P.S. I'm in engineering looking at research universities.)

[NunOfTheAbove]

Originally Posted by Galena

Phew...reading this makes me worry. I'll be doing a "2009 academic job search", and I don't know what's more terrifying - finishing the dissertation or going looking for a job. Probably the job search. Any advice to someone soon to follow in your footsteps?

(P.S. I'm in engineering looking at research universities.)

With a STEM major, you emphasis matters. Find schools that are looking for someone who fits your experience. As a postdoc, you have proven yourself as a researcher. Now the challenge is to find a university where you will provide a good fit with their faculty. Emphasize your ability to bring in money since that is what drives research universities. Did you work on any grants while you were on your way to a PhD? Really stress these areas. Since you most likely will be setting up a research area, where other graduate students will be working under/with you, make sure you pick a University that will attract potential graduate students interested in your area. That is, don’t go to Kansas if you are a geothermal engineer.

I wouldn’t stress it too much. It is a hell of a lot easier on us, then it is on people in the humanities. Plus, I wouldn’t totally rule out teaching universities. They are extremely rewarding. So much so, that it can compensate for the dent they put in your research. Good luck on your dissertation –

[capybara]

Ok, unhappy. The school I thought wanted me did not. My avenues this year appear to be almost completely exhausted. My parachute is black and on fire. Ugh. Year four, and I think I might need to throw in the towel, at least for a while.

[vivalostwages]

Damn, capybara. Just...damn.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

I'm on two search committees, so if one of you is applying our way- good luck and we'll try to get back to you as soon as we can!

[Fretful Porpentine]

Well, I just had a phone interview for a job that I'd really like. I don't think I did terribly well, since I was coming off of two exhausting two-hour freshman comp classes, but wish me luck.

Still waiting to hear about the results of a campus interview for another job that I'd really like. Arrghh, I think waiting is the worst part of this whole process.

[Fretful Porpentine]

Well, I got the job! (The one I had the phone interview for in my last post.) It's tenure-track and seems like a terrific fit, all around. Now I just have to figure out how to move all my stuff to Mississippi...

How's everyone else doing? Hope some of y'all have good news.

[vivalostwages]

Congrats, FP!

As far as I can tell, those of us who applied by April 1 for a full-time position in my department are still waiting to hear one way or another.

[NunOfTheAbove]

Congrats!

Not bad for an gadfly...

[capybara]

Congratulations! That's awesome.
Try ABF shipping-- I've had good luck with them and cheap.




Now I'm off to throw myself off a bridge. . .

[vivalostwages]

Just as expected, I received an email from H.R. telling me that I have not been selected to interview for the FT position.
Fuck it. I'm having a beer and looking seriously into health occupations for a career change.

[Algher]

Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine

Well, I got the job! (The one I had the phone interview for in my last post.) It's tenure-track and seems like a terrific fit, all around. Now I just have to figure out how to move all my stuff to Mississippi...

How's everyone else doing? Hope some of y'all have good news.

Wahoo! They are not moving you? You can often get that as part of your offer (or you can spend your start-up funds doing it). See if the school has a preferred mover that they work with - it can help. Also, remember that you are moving for work - big ol' tax write-off for next year.

[capybara]

Ah, I have another phone interview for next week, believe it or not (someone's getting to the market *very* late)-- possible stay of execution for my career. . .
So, Fretful, to back up, you got an offer from the phone-interview-school without a campus visit? Is that common, anyone?

[Sampiro]

A great search engine for academic jobs (in case you haven't used it yet) is Indeed. It links to way more than The Chronicle or similar engines.

For newbies, always remember that not hearing anything for two months doesn't mean you're out of the running. Some colleges take that long to actually contact interviewees (as anyone who's ever been on one of the accursed search committees can tell you).

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Sampiro

For newbies, always remember that not hearing anything for two months doesn't mean you're out of the running. Some colleges take that long to actually contact interviewees (as anyone who's ever been on one of the accursed search committees can tell you).

Accursed is right.

I'm a grad student about a year out from going on the market, and over the past few years i've lost count of the stories from friends and colleagues about rude, inconsiderate, disorganized, and just plain assholish search committees.

Memo to people on search committees:

1. I don't give a fuck if you had 300 applicants for that position, when you make the first cut, the very minimum you should do is send the discarded applicants a form email. If you're a faculty member, and too fucking important for such trivial tasks, then make sure your department has an admin assistant or even a goddamn student worker who can do it.

2. In my field (History) and in many others, the people who make the first cut usually have to travel to the profession's annual meeting for the first round of interviews. In History, it's the American Historical Association meeting in early January. For English, the MLA; for Philosophy, the APA, etc.

Those dozen or so people have been selected as among the best from (usually) upwards of 100, and often over 200 candidates. They have often flown all the way across the country, and booked hotel rooms, at their own expense to attend the meetings and the interview.

The absolute least you owe these people, if they miss out on the job, is a personal email. The absolute LEAST. Preferably a personal call from the head of the search committee, or a personal letter. And these should go out as soon as you decide who your on-campus job candidates are. Don't just call the people you want for on-campus interviews and leave everyone else swinging in the breeze.

3. When we get to the on-campus stage, we're usually talking about the top 3 or 4 candidates out of a massive field, people who have already gone through at least one interview, and who then spend anywhere from 1 to 3 days on campus being put through a wringer of interviews, social events, meetings, lectures, etc. (see stories from posters, above).

If you tell one of these candidates that you will have a decision in two weeks, then you need to ring the candidate at the end of two weeks, even if it's only to tell him or her that your search committee is too stupid to make a decision, or some asshole Dean hasn't yet approved the hire.

And once you do make a decision, call the successful candidate AND the unsuccessful one/s, and let them all know. Any search committee that doesn't personally contact someone who had an on-campus interview deserves nothing less than the rack and/or thumbscrews.

In case anyone thinks i'm exaggerating here, i've seen all this shitty stuff, and more, happen to friends of mine. These were all excellent candidates, many of whom now have good tenure-track jobs at R1 universities or decent state schools. And i've also heard stories of places that actually do things properly, and treat their applicants like human beings.

My wife had two on-campus interviews this year, and both places were great in terms of how they treated their applicants.

The first place called right when they said they would, and let her know that she had missed out on the job. The head of the search committee explained why the other person beat her out, and told her that she was a very strong candidate (one reason she missed out was that the other candidate had completed the dissertation over a year before, and had been teaching; my wife had not, at the time of the interview, finished her dissertation, which is a disadvantage in a tight job market like this).

The second place called her at the allotted time, and told her that she was their first choice for the job, but that the money they had been promised for the position was possibly going to disappear in California's budget crisis. They university, and the department, were going to have to look at finances. The chair of the search committee said he'd get back in touch as soon as he knew anything.

A week later, he called and said that they had put her name forward to the Dean and made clear that they wanted this position filled.

About ten days after that, the Dean called and offered her the job. This summer, we leave Baltimore and join vivalostwages in the Governator's clutches.

[Sampiro]

Bolding mine

Originally Posted by mhendo

Accursed is right.

I'm a grad student about a year out from going on the market, and over the past few years i've lost count of the stories from friends and colleagues about rude, inconsiderate, disorganized, and just plain assholish search committees.

Amen to all you said, but I particularly hate the inconsiderate and disorganized parts. I've been on interviews where people straight up front let me know that they didn't really want to be going to dinner with me, they really had a lot else to do, but kind of got drafted into this. I smile and nod and say "Yeah, I understand that" while thinking "Fuck you, you little she-bitch or he-bitch! I assure you that I could get along the rest of my life just fine without going to dinner as part of the fucking application process. I would in fact rather be on my own as I've had enough of this, I can't really imagine how much I chew being something you need to know about, and if I haven't mentioned it there's such a thing as common courtesy, and such a thing as having a pair of pissed on shoes and as you obviously lack the first I'd really love to supply you with the second."

The organization thing is also irritating. Please know where I'm supposed to be and what I'm supposed to do and don't wait until I get there to let me know I really needed to go get a parking pass and that I was supposed to meet with the tenure committee but we forgot that Thursdays is the day that they spay and neuter homeless people so let's move that to 5:50 p.m.- I don't give a FUCK what order it's in, frankly other than the "be at 1234 Academia Lane Floor 3 at 8:30 a.m." you can keep the agenda til I get there, by which time you really should have it worked out for both of oru benefits.

Then there's always the special types and the having to answer the same goddamned question 12 times that could be done away with if you took the chance to plan so that the people in my 3 p.m. meeting would preferably be the same ones at my 11 a.m. meeting so that I won't have to answer my professional development goals again. Urrggh.

The time that I chaired a search committee, incidentally, I insisted that those meeting with the candidates wear "hello my name is" tags due to one of my own major peeves. You get 201 names thrown at you that day and nobody can remember them all, and this is just a courtesy. I also made sure that they were mailed an answer the day that the decision was made and told them up front that it was absolutely okay to talk about money because "we're all adults"- some people honestly aren't sure if it's okay to do so. (Since I myself don't drink I also assured them it was quite alright to drink at dinner.) Matters such as where to park and if they needed a parking pass were addressed way before hand, I got rid of the ridiculous breakfast meeting the next morning, and gave them a full 90 minutes between last interview and dinner as I always was irked with the usual 30 minutes I had. (I'd cancel the dinner part altogether if I could.)

[Fretful Porpentine]

Algher -- Sadly, this school doesn't pay moving expenses (they told me that up front, and were generally quite forthcoming about the unspectacular salary and benefits, so I knew what the deal was before I got the offer). Will definitely save the receipts for the tax write-off, though.

capybara -- No, I had a campus interview. I've occasionally heard of people getting offers without the campus interview, but only for short-term lecturer positions.

[Sampiro]

Apologies for the profanity in the above; I forgot this wasn't in the Pit. In absence of a "hangs head sheepishly" emoticon I'll go with this one.

[vivalostwages]

Originally Posted by mhendo

Accursed is right.

I'm a grad student about a year out from going on the market, and over the past few years i've lost count of the stories from friends and colleagues about rude, inconsiderate, disorganized, and just plain assholish search committees.

Memo to people on search committees:

1. I don't give a fuck if you had 300 applicants for that position, when you make the first cut, the very minimum you should do is send the discarded applicants a form email. If you're a faculty member, and too fucking important for such trivial tasks, then make sure your department has an admin assistant or even a goddamn student worker who can do it.

2. In my field (History) and in many others, the people who make the first cut usually have to travel to the profession's annual meeting for the first round of interviews. In History, it's the American Historical Association meeting in early January. For English, the MLA; for Philosophy, the APA, etc.

Those dozen or so people have been selected as among the best from (usually) upwards of 100, and often over 200 candidates. They have often flown all the way across the country, and booked hotel rooms, at their own expense to attend the meetings and the interview.

The absolute least you owe these people, if they miss out on the job, is a personal email. The absolute LEAST. Preferably a personal call from the head of the search committee, or a personal letter. And these should go out as soon as you decide who your on-campus job candidates are. Don't just call the people you want for on-campus interviews and leave everyone else swinging in the breeze.

3. When we get to the on-campus stage, we're usually talking about the top 3 or 4 candidates out of a massive field, people who have already gone through at least one interview, and who then spend anywhere from 1 to 3 days on campus being put through a wringer of interviews, social events, meetings, lectures, etc. (see stories from posters, above).

If you tell one of these candidates that you will have a decision in two weeks, then you need to ring the candidate at the end of two weeks, even if it's only to tell him or her that your search committee is too stupid to make a decision, or some asshole Dean hasn't yet approved the hire.

And once you do make a decision, call the successful candidate AND the unsuccessful one/s, and let them all know. Any search committee that doesn't personally contact someone who had an on-campus interview deserves nothing less than the rack and/or thumbscrews.

In case anyone thinks i'm exaggerating here, i've seen all this shitty stuff, and more, happen to friends of mine. These were all excellent candidates, many of whom now have good tenure-track jobs at R1 universities or decent state schools. And i've also heard stories of places that actually do things properly, and treat their applicants like human beings.

My wife had two on-campus interviews this year, and both places were great in terms of how they treated their applicants.

The first place called right when they said they would, and let her know that she had missed out on the job. The head of the search committee explained why the other person beat her out, and told her that she was a very strong candidate (one reason she missed out was that the other candidate had completed the dissertation over a year before, and had been teaching; my wife had not, at the time of the interview, finished her dissertation, which is a disadvantage in a tight job market like this).

The second place called her at the allotted time, and told her that she was their first choice for the job, but that the money they had been promised for the position was possibly going to disappear in California's budget crisis. They university, and the department, were going to have to look at finances. The chair of the search committee said he'd get back in touch as soon as he knew anything.

A week later, he called and said that they had put her name forward to the Dean and made clear that they wanted this position filled.

About ten days after that, the Dean called and offered her the job. This summer, we leave Baltimore and join vivalostwages in the Governator's clutches.

Congrats to your wife!
I'm sure I'll still be here, though I don't know in what capacity.

[capybara]

Ok, some luck in the last minute "lightning round"-- I have 3 phone interviews coming up this week (2 one-year gigs that pay well here out west and one TT job back east). It feels like February again! Maybe I'll get something out of pure attrition-- everyone who looks clearly better than me is already taken and out of the race.
Cross your fingers for me!

[mhendo]

Good luck!

[Fretful Porpentine]

Yay for last-minute action! Good luck, capybara!