Gender and bathrooms

[copperwindow]

2 questions:
1: Why isn't it discriminatory to have male and female bathrooms and
2: Is it illegal for a guy to use a girls bathroom?

[SSG Schwartz]

I assume you mean in the US. In Korea and in Iraq, there are co-ed, as it were bathrooms.

SSG Schwartz

[mswas]

There are Co-Ed bathrooms in New York.

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by copperwindow

2 questions:
1: Why isn't it discriminatory to have male and female bathrooms and
2: Is it illegal for a guy to use a girls bathroom?

1. Gender creates what is called a "quasi-suspect classification." (Can't remember what case set that precedent though >.<) This means the law or practice recieves the reasonable basis (or "balancing") test in court, weighing the interest of the jurisdictiion with the policy vs the interest of the person challenging the policy. It has this classification due to the fact that the differences between the sexes is different than say, the races. There's a valid reason to seperate the sexes when it comes time to go potty (doesn't exactly take an imagination to figure out why), wheras theres not as much reason to seperate say old people and young people, black people and white people, you get the gist. Also, the issue is slightly different if there are only, say, mens bathrooms on the premisis and no womens bathrooms, but I think we can dance around that if you understood the above paragraph.

2. Depends on the state/town, but I'd say if it's not illegal you could probably at least get busted for making a nuisance of yourself (or sexual harassment).

[Jragon]

Found the case
Craig v Boren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_v._Boren

Ironically, one of the cases that kicked-started the eventful portion of the women's rights movement involved discrimination of men...

[copperwindow]

Originally Posted by Jragon

There's a valid reason to seperate the sexes when it comes time to go potty (doesn't exactly take an imagination to figure out why)

I'm at a loss to imagine why. In every restroom that I've ever seen, there is a stall, although not everyone uses it. Under your logic, shouldn't we have separate bathrooms for people urinating as opposed to those defecating?

2. Depends on the state/town, but I'd say if it's not illegal you could probably get busted for making a nuisance of yourself (or sexual harassment).[/quote]
How would anyone prove it? I am a man with a lot of body hair (it's pretty obvious). If I used a female bathroom and claimed I was a female, what could anyone do? Would they ask to see my vagina??

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by copperwindow

I'm at a loss to imagine why. In every restroom that I've ever seen, there is a stall, although not everyone uses it. Under your logic, shouldn't we have separate bathrooms for people urinating as opposed to those defecating?

2. Depends on the state/town, but I'd say if it's not illegal you could probably get busted for making a nuisance of yourself (or sexual harassment).
How would anyone prove it? I am a man with a lot of body hair (it's pretty obvious). If I used a female bathroom and claimed I was a female, what could anyone do? Would they ask to see my vagina??

Well, there's a valid rason as percieved by general American society I should have said. Stalls somewhat help eliminate the issue, and there are definately coed bathrooms, no big. However I have a feeling there'd be at least a few more cases of [bad acting]"Oops I seem to have walked into a stall with the opposite gender half naked"[/bad acting] than with seperated bathrooms, giving a needless comfort issue.

Also, I'm certain that given the reasonable suspicion you're a guy they'd give you a "hey, buddy, look..." lecture after you get out of the bathroom (assuming there was someone there to make a scene about it), if you KEEP doing it I wouldn't be surprised if you got charged with something.

[copperwindow]

Originally Posted by Jragon

However I have a feeling there'd be at least a few more cases of [bad acting]"Oops I seem to have walked into a stall with the opposite gender half naked"[/bad acting] than with seperated bathrooms, giving a needless comfort issue.

IIRC, stalls have locks on them.

Originally Posted by Jragon

Also, I'm certain that given the reasonable suspicion you're a guy they'd give you a "hey, buddy, look..." lecture after you get out of the bathroom (assuming there was someone there to make a scene about it), if you KEEP doing it I wouldn't be surprised if you got charged with something.

If I tell people that I'm actually a female who looks and talks a lot like a guy, what could anyone do?

[Ferret Herder]

Originally Posted by copperwindow

If I tell people that I'm actually a female who looks and talks a lot like a guy, what could anyone do?

Check your ID?

Stalls also have slits that can be peeped through, and face it, many women don't feel comfortable in an enclosed area even with lockable doors in which they're going to be taking off their clothes and men are too.

[Harmonious Discord]

Places that are small may have a room with one toilet. Those are for use by anybody that needs them. The places that are larger, usually go with two large rooms equipped for the opposite sexes, instead of providing multiple individual rooms. I see no reason why they couldn't make a long corridor with multiple individual bathrooms along it. I know why they usually don't. You need one of everything for each room and it will take up more space, because of this and the fact that urinals placed next to each other only take up about 30 inches center to center.

[DrFidelius]

Why would you want to use the women's room? That's the one that always has a line...

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by Jragon

Well, there's a valid rason as percieved by general American society I should have said.

You keep referring to this "valid reason". Are you ever going to tell us what it is?

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by copperwindow

How would anyone prove it? I am a man with a lot of body hair (it's pretty obvious). If I used a female bathroom and claimed I was a female, what could anyone do? Would they ask to see my vagina??

Apparently, they don't have to prove it. They just have to suspect you're in the wrong room, and even if they're wrong, they will kick you out anyway. (Anyone know if this case has come to court yet?)

[jimmmy]

Montgomery County, Maryland is struggling with the discrimination issue right now.

An anti-discrimination trans-gender law was passed that some said was worded so that it will let someone self identify their sex and use that public bathrooms (& locker rooms).

The County Government put some wordsthat they say say clarifies & eliminates the issue and that opponents say doesn't. I think that consensus was that no political person was going to publicly say that self-identification was appropriate in MD in 2000.

Link says some colleges are trying to remove urinals.

[flex727]

I've always wondered why the restrooms in a place like Starbucks are designated as Men only or Women only. There they have two restrooms, each can only be occupied by one persone at a time with a lock on the door. I've seen women waiting in line many times with the Men's room unoccupied. Since these restrooms are essentially identical, why not have them undifferentiated to improve efficiency?

[Harmonious Discord]

Originally Posted by flex727

I've always wondered why the restrooms in a place like Starbucks are designated as Men only or Women only. There they have two restrooms, each can only be occupied by one persone at a time with a lock on the door. I've seen women waiting in line many times with the Men's room unoccupied. Since these restrooms are essentially identical, why not have them undifferentiated to improve efficiency?

There is one issue that as a man don't want to deal with. They have pad receptacles in womens rooms. I have seen and smelled how nasty they can be. Face it the bathrooms are not always immaculate, and that is one less thing guys rooms don't have that can be nasty.

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by flex727

I've always wondered why the restrooms in a place like Starbucks are designated as Men only or Women only. There they have two restrooms, each can only be occupied by one persone at a time with a lock on the door. I've seen women waiting in line many times with the Men's room unoccupied. Since these restrooms are essentially identical, why not have them undifferentiated to improve efficiency?

Building codes, usually. And possibly, for Starbucks, for uniformity. But building codes will often specify weird things like if you have a bathroom available to the public and both genders might be in your building, you have to build two and designate one male and one female. "Employee bathrooms" or those hidden behind the deli department apparently don't count.

[Alessan]

The reason bathrooms are seperated into male and female is because that's the way most people prefer it. It isn't anything more complicated than that - and it doesn't have to be. Rules don't need reasons, just majorities.

[Angel of the Lord]

If it's a situation like the one in Starbucks. . .fuck it, I'll use the men's room. I've done it at the store when one bathroom's been closed for cleaning. To be fair, though, I sent a scout...

I doubt anyone'd try to prosecute you for it, even if it were illegal. Unless, of course, you were being a really big nuisance or jerk.

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by Alessan

The reason bathrooms are seperated into male and female is because that's the way most people prefer it. It isn't anything more complicated than that - and it doesn't have to be. Rules don't need reasons, just majorities.

What a non-answer. All it does is prompt the question, "So why do people prefer it that way?"

[tremorviolet]

One thing no one has mentioned is urinals. They're extremely space efficient and can really help you meet the required number of facilities yet many women and men wold be uncomfortable being together in a room that featured unenclosed urinals. But enclosing them would require a lot more space. Unisex bathrooms that needed individual stalls for fixtures would require more square feet and actually make installing facilities more expensive.

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by tremorviolet

One thing no one has mentioned is urinals. They're extremely space efficient and can really help you meet the required number of facilities yet many women and men wold be uncomfortable being together in a room that featured unenclosed urinals. But enclosing them would require a lot more space. Unisex bathrooms that needed individual stalls for fixtures would require more square feet and actually make installing facilities more expensive.

How 'bout a six foot metal wall - just like the walls that make up stalls - placed 30" away from the urinals? Men could walk around it and still use the greater number of urinals, and delicate flowers of womanhood wouldn't be at risk of glimpsing a penis. (Although I'm an avid camper and stand a few feet away from pissing men all the time, and somehow I've never actually viewed schlong in the process. They're not all that big whilst they're pissing, y'know.)

[Alessan]

Originally Posted by psychonaut

What a non-answer. All it does is prompt the question, "So why do people prefer it that way?"

Why does that question need to be answered? The preference could be completely arbitrary, and it wouldn't make a difference.

[tremorviolet]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

How 'bout a six foot metal wall - just like the walls that make up stalls - placed 30" away from the urinals? Men could walk around it and still use the greater number of urinals, and delicate flowers of womanhood wouldn't be at risk of glimpsing a penis. (Although I'm an avid camper and stand a few feet away from pissing men all the time, and somehow I've never actually viewed schlong in the process. They're not all that big whilst they're pissing, y'know.)

I think that could make the geometry of restrooms a bit tricky. Plus, I don't see any overwhelming need to have unisex bathrooms. They'll make a good portion of the public uncomfortable (how would most guys deal with the blood that is sometimes found in women's restrooms? And you can see through the cracks in the stalls doors. Would most guys look? No. But the pervy ones would and why should anyone have to deal with that?). Also, in this day of increasingly draconian sexual harassment policies, I find it difficult to believe anyone would be seriously considering "upping the ante".

But this thread has drifted more towards GD than GQ.

[cwthree]

Originally Posted by tremorviolet

And you can see through the cracks in the stalls doors. Would most guys look? No. But the pervy ones would and why should anyone have to deal with that?).

Single-sex bathrooms don't prevent peeping. Ask the officer who arrested Larry Craig (cf the paragraph beginning "At 1213 hours").

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by psychonaut

You keep referring to this "valid reason". Are you ever going to tell us what it is?

I don't know but there obviously is one, or we wouldn't have them all over the place. I have no issue with unisex bathrooms, and I don't entirely understand why people do, but I figure it must be percieved by both the legal system and general public as a valid reason. I shouldn't have said it doesn't take an imagination to figure out why, because I couldn't really think of a reason but I assumed it would be obvious so I threw that in there.

Do you want me to bite myself for being stupid?

Originally Posted by copperwindow

IIRC, stalls have locks on them.

Most (90%or more) or the bathrooms here are maintained horridly, I've been in maybe two stalls all the time I've been down here with working locks (and both were in the same place). Hell, half the time someone ripped off the entire door.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

Originally Posted by flex727

I've always wondered why the restrooms in a place like Starbucks are designated as Men only or Women only. There they have two restrooms, each can only be occupied by one persone at a time with a lock on the door. I've seen women waiting in line many times with the Men's room unoccupied. Since these restrooms are essentially identical, why not have them undifferentiated to improve efficiency?

I've never seen this. The Starbucks around here that do have a public bathroom (not all of them do) just have one or two separate rooms. They're not designated as male or female, and the line for both of them always has both sexes waiting.

[copperwindow]

Originally Posted by Alessan

.The reason bathrooms are seperated into male and female is because that's the way most people prefer it.

Would you be able to cite this?
[quote=Ferret Herder Stalls also have slits that can be peeped through, and face it, many women don't feel comfortable in an enclosed area even with lockable doors in which they're going to be taking off their clothes and men are too.[/QUOTE]
Under this logic, in addition to having male and female bathrooms, we should also have gay, lesbian, and bisexual restrooms. Wasn't it Sir Dexter Holland who once said "You've got to keep em separated"? Oh, also I didn't know women take there clothes off when going to the bathroom, I guess you learn something everyday.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by tremorviolet

But this thread has drifted more towards GD than GQ.

I would agree. From remarks like this I also get the sense that the OP is looking for a debate rather than simple factual answers:

Originally Posted by copperwindow

Oh, also I didn't know women take there clothes off when going to the bathroom, I guess you learn something everyday.

Moving to Great Debates.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[Paladud]

The urinal lobby claims that desegregation would cost America hundreds of jobs. Surely you do not want to further cripple our manufacturing?

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Jragon

...Most (90%or more) or the bathrooms here are maintained horridly, I've been in maybe two stalls all the time I've been down here with working locks (and both were in the same place). Hell, half the time someone ripped off the entire door.

And I've been in men's rooms that didn't even have stall doors to begin with! Places like county fairgrounds, public parks/campgrounds, or beachs often have very basic facilities. The boys' lockerroom at my high school didn't have any doors on the stall.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

Originally Posted by mswas

There are Co-Ed bathrooms in New York.

Do you mean unisex single-person bathrooms, as on an airplane, or the type found in offices and public places? I always thought that was odd on Ally McBeal--is that really common in NYC?

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Spectre of Pithecanthropus

Do you mean unisex single-person bathrooms, as on an airplane, or the type found in offices and public places? I always thought that was odd on Ally McBeal--is that really common in NYC?

I was going to mention the ones on airplanes, but at airports, and some other places, there are mens, women's and family bathrooms: the latter, I think, for diaper changing or taking the little one in.

Serious question: do nudist camps have single sex or multi-sex bathrooms? Anyone know?

[Hakuna Matata]

Originally Posted by Voyager

I was going to mention the ones on airplanes, but at airports, and some other places, there are mens, women's and family bathrooms: the latter, I think, for diaper changing or taking the little one in.

Serious question: do nudist camps have single sex or multi-sex bathrooms? Anyone know?

Believe it or not, I actually know the answer to this one! Well only the one nudist camp I worked on! Oddest architectural job I ever had.

This particular camp had separate bathrooms and lockers and showers.

Strangest meeting I ever attended. I was right out of school and my boss and I show up at the meeting and it looks like any other board meeting. Little notebooks and pencils at each place setting. We sit down and then the nudist building committee shows up--all nude!

I will state for the record that it is my experience that people you want to see nude are never nude and those that you don't want to see nude are the ones who like to flout it. I will also say it is uncomfortable when everyone but you is nude---it is the opposite of what you would expect.

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by Voyager

Serious question: do nudist camps have single sex or multi-sex bathrooms? Anyone know?

Both. That is, some have single sex, some have multi-sex, many have both (single sex at one end, multi-sex at the other - so if you really care about your modesty, you can hike 1/2 a mile to poop in segregated peace) and some just have Porta-Johns.

[Huerta88]

It's what people are comfortable with, and unlikely to change anytime soon.

One odd thing I noticed in Japan -- female cleaners wander into the men's room while it's in use, and nobody seems to be startled (except me). I've never seen this in the West (and, I don't know if the corollary holds true, i.e., I don't know if male janitorial staff can just do their work in the ladies' rooms there without first making sure there are no patrons therein).