The Glory that was Eunice and the Grandeur that was Mama:Carol Burnett's "THE FAMILY"

[Sampiro]

An appreciation thread.

Some wonderful YouTuber has posted most of The Family sketches (aka "The Eunice" sketches, from The Carol Burnett Show onto YouTube (links below). It’s been years since I’ve seen any of these, some I haven’t seen since they originally aired 30 years ago or more, and I’ve gone on a EuniceFest.

The Carol Burnett Show in general and the Eunice sketches in particular were favorites of my childhood, but not having seen them in so long I was afraid they’d fall victim to The Facts of Life Syndrome- i.e. a show that I loved when much much younger and then watched many years later and realized “damn… that show kinda sucked”, but they didn’t: while some Burnett sketches are dated (and save for the dress the Gone With the Wind parody wasn’t as funny as I remembered) the Eunice sketches were even better than I remembered.

For Younger Dopers and others who are only familiar with Mama and Eunice through Mama's Family, their original incarnations on TCBS weren’t, even for the 70s, sitcom fair. They were a hell of a lot darker, meaner, and- if only to me- DEEPER in their original forms. On Mama’s Family Thelma was a cranky no-nonsense curmudgeon gruff and provincial exterior but deep down had a heart of gold and would do anything for her family; on the show she was a hateful, bitter, thoroughly selfish, belittling old horror--- oh, and hysterically funny. Daughter Eunice was seen in her Mama’s Family guest appearances as a bitter histrionic comic shrew, but on TCBS she was not only worse and not only funnier, she was also--- tragic. You absolutely felt sorry for her, though not enough to like her.

Eunice was quite simply a brilliantly written and brilliantly acted character. Lit snobs may want to stone me for saying it but imho she is on par with characters from Tennessee Williams/Flannery O’Connor/Truman Capote/William Faulkner and many other of the dark So-Goth writers of the late 20th century. You know her, you feel sorry for her, you may even understand and sympathize with her sometimes, but you never exonerate her because she’s at least as sinning as sinned against. She sees herself as a victim and in many ways she is- daughter of a woman who’s seemingly incapable of expressing affection, living in the shadow of a sister who surpasses her in every way, married to a man she doesn’t really love who doesn’t seem to view her as anything remotely special, no money or connections to ever rise higher than she is (and that’s pretty low)- she’s bright enough to sense, correctly, that she’s trapped.
If it ended there she’d be sympathetic. But she’s also an emasculating, horrible person who looks down on everybody, will not even attempt to be reasonable when she’s pissed off (which is usually), is a terrible disinterested mother to her sons (in one sketch it’s revealed she fixes them baloney sandwiches every single day for lunch with no variation), she loathes her life but takes absolutely no actions to better her station (education, a job, church, or anything else), refuses to see how many if not most of her problems are at least in part the result of her own choices, and doesn’t want anybody to have anything (including happiness) that she doesn’t have. She’s absolutely convinced of her own brilliance, beauty, and talent in spite of all evidence to the contrary, prefers self-pity and pipe dreams to anything remotely constructive, and while you know that much of her rage is projected self-loathing it doesn’t make her any more endearing and it’s outright damnable when she turns it on the innocent.

And yet, the sketches are (IMO, YMMV) some of the funniest damned things ever on television. The comedy, the pathos, the shock- these were some of the most complex writing ever done for a family comedy/variety show sketch- nothing on MAD TV or SNL or the like has ever come near to it for depths of emotion.

When come back will bring links (and little else). Would love to read other’s opinions on Eunice (whether they agree with mine or not).

PS- In starting this OP I did a search to see if there'd been any other Eunicentric threads and couldn't believe it when I came across these posts in this thread (both posts abridged):

From Post 143

Originally Posted by Glory

Eunice, Mama and Eunice's husband (at least those 3 maybe more) were supposed to have dinner at an extremely fancy restaurant. The family misbehaved so badly, they were thrown out and there is a tiny, beautiful moment as Eunice lingers at the doorway of the restaurant staring wistfully at a world she can't be a part of. I saw it as a kid and it really stuck with me.

and Post 144

Originally Posted by TWDuke

The ending of the episode where Eunice goes on The Gong Show pretty much ruined the Gong Show and similar shows for me. I don't even care if people are in on the joke, I haven't found that joke funny since.

Both posts made me go "YES! I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE!"

[Sampiro]

Not all of The Family sketches are on YouTube and this is not a complete listing of the ones that are, but it's a "get you started" list. The GONG SHOW and THE RESTAURANT links above are also "must watches".


ORIGINAL TCBS SKETCHES

Aunt May's Funeral- Possibly the first and definitely one of the best intros.

Mama's Birthday - the first appearance of "perfect sister Ellen"

Forgive Your Enemies

Cleaning Out the Attic with sister Ellen (Betty White)

The GAMING trilogy:

1- Charades with Tim Conway as Ed's employee "MICKEY HART! MICKEY HART! ALL I EVER HEAR ABOUT MICKEY HART!"

2- Sorrry!

3- Monopoly


Brother Jack one of Eunice's several brothers (Tommy Smothers) has an operation and the family "comforts" him- contains a great blooper related to Tommy's toupee.

Mickey's Apartment

Bubba's Teacher- a parent teacher conference with Bubba's teacher Ms. Collins (Dame Maggie Smith)
CLASSIC OUTTAKES

Cotton Pony

The Elephant Story



In 1982 Carol Burnett/Vicki Lawrence/Harvey Korman/Betty White reprised their roles for a 2 hour television movie (taped before a live audience) about 25 years in the life of Eunice. It was magic. The final segment was one of the most tearjerking moments and ends with

SPOILER:

the Family returning from Mama's Funeral

It's on YouTube in 9 parts and I've subdivided it by the year in which it's set. (Ken Berry appears as Eunice's brother Phil, a composite of her brothers from the sketch but mostly the one played by Roddy McDowell [the super successful author who avoids the family as much as possible]; he's nothing like Vint from Mama's Family.)


EUNICE SPECIAL

1955

1963

1973

1978


Trivia: in the series and in the special you'll find several references to cryogenic freezing. The Family sketches were in part written by Dick Jones (aka Dick McMahon in some credits) who later produced Mama's Family and was a major believer in cryogenic suspension. He left most of his estate to the ALCOR Institute (where his body is frozen in nitrogen) when he died in 1989; residuals from Mama's Family and, coincidentally, from Facts of Life (in which he owned points) are among ALCOR's main sources of revenue.

[hajario]

I loved the Eunice sketches when I was a kid. Brilliant comedy. You have inspired me to do some youtube searches very soon.

The TV spin-off with Ken Barry was awful and unwatchable.

[lawoot]

[MAMA]"You sure that little asshole's through?"[/MAMA]

[Ichbin Dubist]

"Supplemental ... Hardware ... Guide."

Are there any DVDs of the Burnett show? I would love to give these to my folks. One of my favorites when I was a kid.

Oh, and for your list of shows that haven't aged well? Try Laugh-In.

[Sampiro]

Originally Posted by Ichbin Dubist

Oh, and for your list of shows that haven't aged well? Try Laugh-In.

The last time I saw an episode I remember not recognizing half the "special guest" drop-ins at the dance sequence. (And I've wondered if I'm the only person who never thought Earnestine was that funny.)

Something that amazes me about Vicky Lawrence as Mama is that she was in her early twenties when she started portraying that old woman. She also was a Southern California kid with no serious acting creds outside of Carol Burnett's show (where she was hired as a teenager due to her resemblance to Carol who needed a kid sister for sketch), so it's doubtful she was ever around an actual bitter old "flyover states" woman, but she frigging NAILED it. Her voice, her movements, her demeanor, her delivery are all just perfect. (Her delivery of the line "Well how in the HELL should I know?" [with about 3 syllables in hell] cracks me up everytime because I can think of a dozen women I knew growing up who sounded just like that.)

The other impressive thing about her is that Vicky never drops out of character. Even in the outtakes where she's fighting not to laugh, she's still talking and doing the gestures of Mama. I remember a Carol Burnett interview at some point where she said Vicky actually would get too into character and they'd have to stop the tape because Mama would pop out with a "Well goddam it Eunice!" or some other phrase that was perfectly in character but too strong for TV.
I'm surprised VL never went further as an actress, because girl's got some serious talent. Currently she does a "Vicky & Mama: A Two Woman Show" tour on the B-venue circuit and has a recurring role on Hanna Montana, and twixt those and her residuals and whatever she socked away from Mama's Family and TCBS and episodic appearances on various shows I'm sure she's not living in public housing, but I'd love to see what she could do with the right dramatic role.

[pesch]

I was about to mention that VL's touring midstate Pennsylvania with her act; I checked up on her wikipedia entry while editing a story on it.

I suppose it's a measure of its popularity that she can still tour with it. Can't imagine any other TV stars taking their characters on the road.

I'll have to check out the YouTube clips. I loved the Carol Burnett show when I was a kid (let's see, Thursday nights, right? All in the Family, Mary Tyler Moore, Bob Newhart and Carol Burnett). That's my childhood, right there, plus "60 Minutes" on Sunday and Lawrence Welk.

Thanks, Sampiro.

[pprgrl]

I'm actually quite happy that my computer won't play video because otherwise I'd be wasting hours watching those clips. I loved TCBS show as a kid, and The Family sketches were definitely the best part.

Several years ago, one of the cable stations - I think it was A&E, but I could be wrong - used to show reruns of TCBS and Monty Python in the wee early hours of the morning. I used to camp out in the living room with a blanket and watch all night.

[pprgrl]

And was going to add, but missed the edit window:

Because of The Family and What's Up, Doc? Eunice has become one of my favorite female names. I use as a character name in video games all the time. I can't say it without giggling. Eunice. Hehehe. I think last time I used it was in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, which was especially funny when the big reveal came around.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by Ichbin Dubist

Are there any DVDs of the Burnett show?

Just a couple of clip shows, unfortunately.

[Ichbin Dubist]

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

Just a couple of clip shows, unfortunately.

And The Price Is Right has full episodes on DVD. Hrm.

[StGermain]

I actually had a hard time watch the "Mama & Eunice" sketches, because even though I knew they were comedies (and I loved "Sorry!!!!"), they just had such a mean pettiness about them that as a kid I knew would kill me to be around. When we kids were mean to each other, it was more like M*A*S*H - snippy banter, but loving, mostly. I can't imagine living in a family where people were mean to each other.

StG

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by Ichbin Dubist

And The Price Is Right has full episodes on DVD. Hrm.

I'd say Carol Burnett has the same problem that WKRP did.

[Indyellen]

I found them overall hysterically funny...until I spent some time with my step-Grandmother Maxine and my Aunt/Cousin Nita...and realized that Mama WAS my Grandmother, only meaner.*

I can watch some of them from TCBS, but will NEVER watch Mama's Family - it's too close to reality, even though my Grandmother was from Chicago. It does make me understand my mother a little better, though.

*In a story to rival something Sampiro would write, my actual grandmother died before I was born from cancer. Shortly thereafter, my Grandfather married one of his deceased wife's sisters, and thus the conflict between what relationship people actually are. Therefore, my mom is her own cousin, etc.

[Sampiro]

I think the dysfunctional aspect is one of the appeals. My family was, as I may have mentioned at some point, a bit on the "not altogether happy" side and it was due in large part to my mother's occasional tirades and tantrums ("the Virgo Virago" as my father called her) and bitter old women (mainly my grandmothers). TV in the 1970s started with The Brady Bunch and Bewitched and other cheesy "no real problems" Stepford wives and metrosexual hubbies and beautiful homes in big city suburbs. When Norman Lear got involved you got All in the Family and Good Times where the families had real problems and the homes weren't showplaces and women didn't dust wearing nice clothes and with their hair perfectly coiffed, but the couples were ultimately happily married and supportive. Sanford & Son was great because it allowed us to see a family who lived in a total mess like my grandmother and aunts, but there again Fred and Lamont still didn't go into "way over the top" hysterics and screaming matches and the like, and once again their home was in a big city.

THE FAMILY on TCBS was one of the things I could actually relate to, and even say "Well, we'll never be the Brady Bunch but at least we're not Eunice and Mama and Ed!" (My parents were at least well educated and a lot more intelligent than Eunice and Ed, and my mother wasn't that crazy most of the time [at her worst I'll grant she was crazier and even more histrionic, but her worst was only once every year or two] and while my grandmother was--- well, actually my grandmother was at least as selfish and evil as Thelma and add to that she dressed like a bag woman, but the upside was none of us gave a damn what she said so it didn't sting like when Mama Harper cut Eunice and Ed to ribbons. (I also had an aunt who reminded me a lot of Betty White's character.) And of course they lived in Raytown (wherever it was), a "never heard of it" ville, which also helped.
The strange thing is that I'm far from alone in this: I've met a lot of people over the years who said that the Eunice sketches were far closer to their families than anything else on TV.
I've heard from somewhere (how's that for a citation) that Eunice was based in part on Carol Burnett's mother, who was an alcoholic and failed actress who gave up custody of her daughters to her own mother (the grandma Carol tugged her ear for). I'm not sure if Ed is based on her father (also an alcoholic who basically left the family, came back, left again, etc.). Mama's probably not based on her grandmother, who was a lot feistier and a lot younger than Thelma Harper (when you see Carol tugging her ear you think a little old lady in a shawl, when in fact she was only about 38 when Carol was born).

OTOH some of the moments are definitely lifted from Carol's childhood. There's a part of 'The Restaurant' sketch where Mama comes out of the lady's room with her purse filled with stolen rolls of toilet paper, and according to Carol Burnett that was routine with her grandmother. She supplemented the family grocery budget by "borrowing" toilet paper/salt/pepper/sugar, having her granddaughters eat "loose" grapes and other "loose" items in the produce sections of grocery stores (they were banned from some stores) and other things that she somehow decided weren't stealing. When times were really hard she'd steal tips left by other customers in diners and other "we're not even pretending it's not larceny" stuff, but usually she stayed to what she'd allowed in her moral code.

If I ever talked to or interviewed Carol Burnett, I think the whole thing would revolve around those sketches and her childhood.

[fessie]

Oh wow. Thank you so much, I'll be watching them soon.

Absolutely brilliant. And so, so poignant. Eunice reminds me a lot of my Mom, at times.
I think the Parcheesi game is my favorite, at least it's the first one to come to mind.

[Liberal]

Thanks, Sampiro, for reminding me of these great sketches. Your exposition took me back to the time, and made them even more enjoyable again.

[FriarTed]

Another thing about Roddy McDowell's character (was he Eunice's brother or a somewhat more removed relative?) was the insinuation by Harvey Korman (Ed?) that he was gay. When R McD passed away I saw no reference to any wife/children in his obits, it occurred to me- "Oh yeah!... and he surreptitiously outed himself on the Carol Burnett Show!...
Wow! I am impressed!'

[Rilchiam]

Are you sure about McDowall's character? (He was a cousin, I believe.) During the Monopoly sketch, he called to announce his engagement. Alan Alda was Eunice's brother, the artist, about whom Eunice said his being unmarried didn't mean he was "strange...necessarily." Later, Ed was convinced of his virility when he asked for a beer. "And here Ah thought you was a bit of a nance! [flounces wrist]"

Oh, and the Monopoly game. When Philip called, the family was in the midst of a brawl about when exactly a player could buy houses. Mama brushed aside the news and demanded, "Can ya buy houses when it's not your turn, or do ya hafta wait?...Can ya buy houses when it's not your turn?!...IN MONOPOLY!!" Then she told the others that "he was so rude, drove the answer right outta mah damn head!"

I sometimes recall that when playing Monopoly. And pepper mills bring back the restaurant sketch. "It is a PEPPER MILL, Mama! Ya hafta GRIND it! [twists mill violently] You'd think the twoa ya lived under a ROCK!"

Yes, you can count me among those who see their family in the Harpers, even though we're Italian-American, with roots in Pennsylvania. The best showcase for Mama's nastiness is the one where she's in a wheelchair, staying with Eunice and Ed indefinitely. "That's your fourth beer today!" "And I'll tell you suntin', I've needed ever' one of 'em! [Eunice takes a defiant swig]"

(That said, I've never thought Tim Conway was funny. The elephant routine goes right past me.)

[Otto]

Some of the humor and pathos of the Family sketches went over my head as a kid so I'm looking forward to watching them again as an adult. I do remember feeling sorry for Eunice on the Gong Show while still being convulsed with laughter over her wretched rendition of "Feelings" and also cracking up when Mama rang the bell and cackled "Soooorrry!" That bit still goes through my head when I'm dealing with someone obnoxious who realizes halfway through their little rant that it's all their fault.

[FriarTed]

Originally Posted by Rilchiam

Are you sure about McDowall's character? (He was a cousin, I believe.) During the Monopoly sketch, he called to announce his engagement. Alan Alda was Eunice's brother, the artist, about whom Eunice said his being unmarried didn't mean he was "strange...necessarily." Later, Ed was convinced of his virility when he asked for a beer. "And here Ah thought you was a bit of a nance! [flounces wrist]"

Oh, and the Monopoly game. When Philip called, the family was in the midst of a brawl about when exactly a player could buy houses. Mama brushed aside the news and demanded, "Can ya buy houses when it's not your turn, or do ya hafta wait?...Can ya buy houses when it's not your turn?!...IN MONOPOLY!!" Then she told the others that "he was so rude, drove the answer right outta mah damn head!"

I sometimes recall that when playing Monopoly. And pepper mills bring back the restaurant sketch. "It is a PEPPER MILL, Mama! Ya hafta GRIND it! [twists mill violently] You'd think the twoa ya lived under a ROCK!"

Yes, you can count me among those who see their family in the Harpers, even though we're Italian-American, with roots in Pennsylvania. The best showcase for Mama's nastiness is the one where she's in a wheelchair, staying with Eunice and Ed indefinitely. "That's your fourth beer today!" "And I'll tell you suntin', I've needed ever' one of 'em! [Eunice takes a defiant swig]"

(That said, I've never thought Tim Conway was funny. The elephant routine goes right past me.)

I'm still pretty sure there was some insinuation about Roddy/Philip. Btw, it was this episode & he was Eunice's brother-

http://www.tv.com/the-carol-burnett-...3/summary.html

Episode Number: 181 Season Num: 7 First Aired: Saturday March 16, 1974

"The Family" – Eunice (Carol), her husband Ed (Harvey), and Mama (Vicki) don't appreciate the accomplishments of Eunice's brother, Nobel Prize-winning writer Philip (Roddy)


I also found this bit of info at that site-

128. with Eydie Gorme, Vincent Price
Community Score10.0
Perfect
First aired: 2/9/1972
· "The House of Terror" – horror movie spoof · "Desidirata" – recitation by Vincent · "Gypsy Medley" – Eydie and Carol sing · "The Way of Love" – sung by Eydie · "What We Really Need Is A Boy," "Perfect Young Ladies" – sung by Carol, Vicki, and Eydie · Salute to the Twenties


I KNEW I REMEMBERED SEEING VINCENT PRICE RECITE THE DESIDERATA ON THE CAROL BURNETT SHOW!!!

Now if I could find out what show had Boris Karloff doing "It Was A Very Good Year".

[PunditLisa]

I actually cited the "Sorrrrrrry!" sketch in the recent "classic t.v. moments" thread. We use a lot of Eunice-isms when we're with family, from "Sorrrrry!" to "You KNOW I wanted yeller." I loved Mama's Family.

I'll have to watch a few of the episodes.

[Scumpup]

Sampiro,
You are absolutely right concerning the brilliance and depth of The Family sketches. No, you aren't the only person who never found Lily Tomlin's Earnestine character funny.

[FriarTed]

Quick hijack-

The Jonathan Winters Show

23. October 30, 1968
First aired: 10/30/1968
Jonathan's guests are Boris Karloff, Agnes Moorehead, Marjorie McCoy and the Craig Hundley Trio. Also joining him are Cliff Arquette and Pamela Rodgers. Comedy Sketches: Agnes Moorehead recites a scarry Halloween tale. A trick-or-treater (Jonathan) rings the doorbell of a mad doctor (Karloff) and his nurse (Moorehead). Jonathan plays elderly swinger Maude Frickert. Musical Highlights: Boris Karloff performs "It Was a Very Good Year." Marjorie McCoy and dancers do a "Samba" production number. The Craig Hundley Jazz Trio perform the "Theme from Black Orpheus."

Guest star: Cliff Arquette (Himself (1968-1969)), Pamela Rodgers (Herself (1968)) , Boris Karloff (Himself), Agnes Moorehead (Herself), Craig Hundley (Himself)

GOD BLESS WWW.TV.COM!!!!!

[guizot]

Originally Posted by Sampiro

I think the dysfunctional aspect is one of the appeals. My family was, as I may have mentioned at some point, a bit on the "not altogether happy" side and it was due in large part to my mother's occasional tirades and tantrums ("the Virgo Virago" as my father called her) and bitter old women (mainly my grandmothers). TV in the 1970s started with The Brady Bunch and Bewitched and other cheesy "no real problems" Stepford wives and metrosexual hubbies and beautiful homes in big city suburbs. When Norman Lear got involved you got All in the Family and Good Times where the families had real problems and the homes weren't showplaces and women didn't dust wearing nice clothes and with their hair perfectly coiffed, but the couples were ultimately happily married and supportive. Sanford & Son was great because it allowed us to see a family who lived in a total mess like my grandmother and aunts, but there again Fred and Lamont still didn't go into "way over the top" hysterics and screaming matches and the like, and once again their home was in a big city.

THE FAMILY on TCBS was one of the things I could actually relate to...

I've seen some of these shows (on the TV Land channel), and I've spent some free time watching Sampiro's links. I have to say, "The Family" scenes differ from other old-time comedy in that it isn't situation comedy. "I Love Lucy" was the epitome of situation comedy, and it's amazing that they still show it, and it's even more amazing to see that over half a century later most comedies strive for the same effect.

However, these sketches that Sampiro has linked us to are not situation comedy, and I think that's why they stand out. In fact, I'm surprised that they even made their way onto to prime-time. There's a live audience (it isn't canned laughter), and they don't laugh at the straight-forward jokes, but rather at the...well, I don't know any other way to say it, but at the [CLICHE]humanity'[/CLICHE] of the characters.

When I watch these video clips, I don't see comedy, I see Eugene O'Neil.

But there's one thing that gives me caution; they're putting on Southern accents. Are these accents believable?

[fessie]

Saturday night used to be Mary Tyler Moore and Bob Newhart, followed by Carol Burnett. Okay, maybe a little Hee-Haw while Mom finished putting on her makeup and Dad told the 14-yr-old babysitter where the emergency phone numbers were.

Plenty of the jokes were inscrutable (I never could figure out why WJM didn't just fire Ted), but you knew that when you were a grown-up yourself, they'd make sense. You'd probably understand the rest of the jokes on All in the Family then, too.

Those shows were political, and subtle, and about the human condition.

Then Aaron Spelling brought jiggle to prime-time and it's been downhill ever since.

[PunditLisa]

Originally Posted by guizot

But there's one thing that gives me caution; they're putting on Southern accents. Are these accents believable?

Believable but exaggerated. I have relatives from Southwestern Kentucky who sound just like Eunice.

[Slithy Tove]

thanks Sampiro, I was watching 'night, Mother and kept seeing Mama and Eunice in it. It's now been either ruined or improved - I can't tell?

What next? "Reflections in a Golden Eye" with the cast of "Major Dad?"

[TWDuke]

Originally Posted by guizot

I have to say, "The Family" scenes differ from other old-time comedy in that it isn't situation comedy. "I Love Lucy" was the epitome of situation comedy, and it's amazing that they still show it, and it's even more amazing to see that over half a century later most comedies strive for the same effect.

However, these sketches that Sampiro has linked us to are not situation comedy, and I think that's why they stand out. In fact, I'm surprised that they even made their way onto to prime-time. There's a live audience (it isn't canned laughter)...

I Love Lucy was filmed in front of a studio audience, which is not to say that it (or the Carol Burnett Show) was never "sweetened" in postproduction. Carol Burnett used to do a brief Q&A at the top of each show, and I recall her explaining to an audience member that they ran through the whole show twice each week, once in front of an audience and once with just the cast and crew. The version that aired contained pieces of both performances.