Next year, my partner and I are taking the kids (6,8, and 15) to India for spring break. I’ve been taking Hindi classes for the last year and feel that I’m at least another year out before I won’t just be politely asking “What is your name?” and “Which way to the train station?”
So far, we’ve ordered a bunch of books on India and we’re starting to go through these monsterous tomes. (Rough Guide, DK, National Geographic, Lonely Planet, and Frommers). We are completely set with all that’s great in the country but are feeling a bit overwhelmed with trying to narrow this down into some semblance of a trip less than 3 years. (We need to get this to be under 2 weeks).
I’ve also read this thread a bit as a primer too. This will be the kids 4th trip to a country where the water isn’t potable (we went to China and Mexico last year, and Egypt this year). We’re a bit used to living out of bottled water and so far none of us have gotten the big D.
The main sites of interest are (currently): the golden triangle of Delhi, Jaipur, and Agra with the Taj Maal…Varanasi…Kerala (for some beach time)…the toy train to Darjeeling…
What are the must-sees and the “mehs” of India? We want to keep it cultural, unique, “fun”, and keep a balance of seeing the important things as well as finding great markets to go shopping at.
I’d say don’t try to do the whole country. It would be like trying to do the whole of Europe, which just isn’t feasible and leads to rushing all over the place in a rather hectic fashion. Two weeks is really a very short time, and it’s a big country.
The Delhi-Jaipur-Agra triangle is very nice, although I do think the Taj Mahal is a bit overrated up close - it’s worth a visit, but a little dilapidated when you get right up against it. Delhi and Agra have some very nice Mughal architecture, and no end of markets to shop in. Jaipur has Rajput palaces and forts, but it might be worth your while to get out into the desert, near Jaisalmer; that is absolutely beautiful. The Jain temples in Ranakpur are very splendid, too.
You could probably fit in a few days lazing about on a houseboat in Kerala (where your Hindi won’t come in much use, I must point out…) and the backwaters are spectacular, and entirely different from the north. I don’t think Varanasi and Darjeeling are going to be possible in two weeks without a lot of frantic rushing about, unless you want to give up Kerala. Of course, you might like moving about a lot, in which case it’s certainly possible, but a flavour of south India would certainly be different.
I just wanted to say I am really impressed you are:
a) learning Hindi
b) taking the kids
c) doing some real research before you go.
I think the Taj Mahal is worth it…even being dilapidated. it brings to mind what exactly the Brits did. I will be the first one to acknowledge they did a great many good things, but the Taj shows a lot of their greedy side, too.
I also highly recommend Chandigarh, if you can. Now we are talking about the good things the Brits did, and Chandigarh is the sweetest most organized little town ever.
My recollection is that the Taj Mahal is fine but the Red Fort (in Old Delhi) is pretty stuffed. Both are worth seeing anyway.
My main suggestion is not to try to do too much. Train travel can take a long time if there are problems. The train from Delhi to Agra was supposed to take 2-3 hours, but took 8 because it was foggy and dangerous to go too fast.
I strongly recommend taking Agra to Jaipur by road because Fatehpur Sikri is on the way. Corbett Tiger Park is fantastic, but don’t try and organise to get there on the fly.
Chandigarh is like Canberra :D. It’s nice enough and you should go there if you go to S(h)imla. I dunno whether it’s worth a trip by itself. I does have one of the most diplomatically amusing museums I’ve ever seen. And the outsider art thing is amazing. Hmm… on second thoughts, it is worth a trip.
Dervorin is the first person I’ve ever heard say the Taj Mahal is overrated. I was amazed that after all the photos I’d seen in my life, the real thing was an inspiring experience.
I agree with hawthorne that Fatehpur Sikri is not to be missed if your in the vicinity. The British did steal most of the movable artwork and the gold leaf besides. But the awe of the magnificent abandoned city remains.
It will be very hot during spring break, so be prepared.
With a limitation of two weeks, the one thing I would recommend is a long-distance train journey. There is no better way to really get a feel for the country. Perhaps one of your legs, Agra-Benares, or Benares-Calcutta, could be by train. Don’t take the A/C coach!
Since you’ll be taking the Darjeeling train, you’ll be spending some time in Calcutta I take it … Swing by the Indian Museum, and the Park Street book stalls. If you have time, see the Kali temple at Dakhineshwar, north of town.
Damage to historical monuments in India is mostly through lack of care and pollution. The Taj Mahal is particularly vulnerable to damage from air pollution.
True, but there was also some defacement between 1857 and 1900, largely by the removal of semi-precious stones by soldiers and bureaucrats; until Lord Curzon ordered a restoration project in 1908. It’s not just lack of care and pollution, although that is certainly the largest current threat to the Taj.
I didn’t say it was overrated per se, I said
Perhaps I came across as more harsh than I intended - the Taj is indeed a magnificent building, but isn’t as perfect as glossy photographs would have one believe. Like any other 400 year old building, it has its flaws. Perhaps my view is also slightly jaundiced by the eyes of a world-weary teenager, which is what I was when I last went to Agra. If it seemed as though I was recommending against visiting the Taj, I withdraw that unreservedly. It’s a unique experience.
I don’t think the Taj is overrated at all. Jaipur is, however. Polluted, noisy, overpriced, and not at all as charming as it is advertised to be. It is easy to avoid, and I would certainly recommend doing that. And I wouldn’t go to Kerala either. As others have said, it is a lovely place, but it is very far from North India both in distance and feel. The Deccan is a whole other country, IMO, and you would be better off going there on a separate trip. Instead you could do this, although you might be pressed for time:
Days 1-2: take a few days in Delhi (don’t forget to sample the magnificent kebabs at Karim’s in Old Delhi). Car rental should be around $20 for a day, and it is worth every penny, Delhi is huge.
Days 4-5 take the morning A/C train to Agra and go on the official tour (they wait for the train before they go) to Fatehpur Sikri, the Red Fort, and the Taj. Stay in a hotel in the area around the Taj, see it again in the morning, and go to Varanasi on an overnight train. Alternatively just leave Agra the on the same night. It isn’t a particularly friendly place - even for seasoned travellers. (The train leaves Agra around 8 p.m. IIRC, and arrives at Varanasi Junction around 8 a.m. the following day.)
Days 6-8 relax in Varanasi (if you can). It is a fascinating city, and it will be a hundred times more interesting if you read up on the history first. Diana Eck’s City of Light is ok for starters; let me know if you want a more extensive list. I have spent more than a year in the city, and while I agree with the (common) sentiment that it can be a horribly stressful and annoying place to be, it is just heaven for an indologist like myself. Leave on another night train for Kolkata (just make sure it’s the right one - there are two, and one of them is horribly dirty and always (several hours) late, the other one is great.)
Days 9-11: Kolkata. Easily the friendliest, most welcoming and altogether nicest of the large Indian cities. Love the place, the people, the food, the fairs. Like Varanasi a fascinating place to just wander about, hang out, meet people and have a nice cuppa.
Days 12-14: Bus (rented car, maybe), toy train to Darjeeling. Also a lovely place, and by this time you’ll all appreciate a bit of fresh mountain air, I’m sure.
Then: night coach to Kolkata, fly to Delhi, then home.
This would be a pretty tight schedule, and you never know what happens when you’re in India. This kind of itinerary will give you a bit of a feel for North India: Mughals, Hindus, Raj, but it will only be a sample.
Another fun thing to do is to find some local festivals or holidays. I haven’t got my calendar here, but I’m sure there will be one when you go there. There always is.
If you need specific recommendations, help, or litterature recommendations of any kind, let me know. And enjoy the trip - keep us posted!
Two weeks is not a lot of time, and I wouldn’t try to go to more than three or so places. And I wouldn’t even try to make it to the south.
Personally, I’d spend that time in Rajasthan. Jaisalmeer is packed full of tourists, but beautiful and still worth it. There is plenty of random stuff to do out in the desert that you will get away from the tourist track a bit- the rat temple outside of Bikaner, various Jain temples scattered around Jaisalmeer, etc. The culture out there is just amazing- you’ll see countless scenes that seem like they came right out of a fairy tale.
Though I hesitate to add more things to your list, Amritsar was one of my favorite places in India. The city itself is colorful and lively without being too hassled, the Golden Temple is the most amazing relgious site I’ve ever been to.
As for practicalities…Don’t go to Agra first thing. The Taj Mahal is worth it, but the town is probably the most aggressive tourist place in India (and hence, the world) and you will get hassled out of your mind. It’s best to get used to the country before you need to deal with that place. Lonely Planet is a better book to bring with you than Rough Guide, but the Rough Guide’s reading list is pretty good. Never take Air Conditioned trains (you can’t see out the window) and figure any transport can easily take twice as long as it should.
With all of your advice and warnings, we’re trying to pare down the trip to make it more manageable. (When we went to Egypt last month, we learned the hard way not to pack too much into a trip).
Here’s what we’re thinking: a 5-3-4 trip. Five days in the Golden Triangle (Delhi-Agra-Jaipur) maybe with Bikaner and Jaisalmer too (and now **even sven’s ** suggestion of Amritsar’s Golden Temple is way too irresistable). and then 3 days of relaxation at a beach town (not sure where exactly) and then 4 days of more sightseeing (Varanasi/Kolkata/Toy Train/Shimla/et al). The thought would be to have it almost like three spots that we can web out from and almost have it be three seperate trips and doing day trips from a central hub for each leg of the trip.
It’s quite a daunting exercise narrowing this country down and the more we read to weed it down the more the things we want to see grow.
Panurge, that’s a great itinerary. One BIG question… you mentioned renting a car in Delhi, how safe/confusing is it to drive in? It would be nice to have our own car because when we try to cram five of us into a taxi, especially in hot weather, it can quickly become miserable.
I can’t say this strongly enough: if you haven’t driven in India (or an equivalent country) before, don’t do it, specially not on a holiday with children. Driving in India is an experience that I think one needs to be born to (and I have plenty of trouble with it, even with the advantage of having been born to it). It’s a totally different mindset - the roads can be bad, the drivers aggressive and hardly anyone follows the rules. You don’t mention where you’re from, but there’s also the possibility that you will be driving on the wrong side of the road as far as you are concerned. I would strongly recommend against it. There’s a lot to be said for having a car of your own, but get a car with a driver. It’ll save you much grief. I’ve seen the first wide-eyed response from friends who see the traffic in India for the first time, and while it’s very amusing to watch them, I don’t think it would be nearly as amusing for them to be launched into that madness.
I drive quite a bit when I’m at home in India (unfortunately something that doesn’t happen frequently enough these days) and it always takes me a day or so to adjust back to the mindset required. I try to drive courteously and sensibly and abide by the rules - that just makes me an aberration and a serious road hazard. I still do it, though.
Agreed. Don’t drive yourself! - Renting a car with a driver is really cheap (around 20 USD for 8 hours/80kms) and is the right thing to do to get around in the cities you are staying. And don’t worry about space or overheating - you can get a minivan or equivalent with A/C. I can recommend you a reliable company in Delhi if you need it.
For longer jouneys train is the best option. You could fly, of course, but the trains are wonderful; my favourite place in India is in the bunk of a 2nd. class sleeper train, reading a book & sipping tea from a disposable clay cup. Try it at least once!
Regarding the beach town plan: India has very few decent beaches, and most (if not all) will be quite far away from the Delhi/Rajasthan area. If you go to Jaisalmer, the nearest might be Diu - a former Portuguese fortress town at the southern tip of Gujarat. If you go to Calcutta instead, you could opt for Puri in Orissa on the east coast (but it isn’t really a beach holiday kind of place. Still nice in itself, though). If you fly, you could go to Goa or perhaps somewhere in Kerala. In Karnataka, just south of Goa, there is a small city called Gokarna that supposedly has great (and - in Indian terms -) relatively unspoiled beaches. These years it seems to be the new Goa/Kovalam-kind of place.
Oh, and Amritsar is a great place to spend a night or two. You can stay for free (read: for a small “voluntary donation”) in the Gurdwara in the temple complex. They have a small enclosure for western travellers, and your stuff will be guarded by a bearded, turbaned man with a spear! Food is free as well, and all are welcome to give a hand in the communal kitchen. Do this instead of Jaipur which just isn’t worth it.
Sorry to bump this thread, but we just bought tickets to Delhi last night. Woohoo! (FYI: flight from JFK to Delhi was $970 for the adults and $840 for the two young’uns for two weeks on Air India). So, a couple new questions and one that’s been pretty well addressed already.
The food. Nummy nummy, I can’t wait. If a restaurant does serve meats like chicken, are they ok to eat? (what about in touristy areas?)
My partner wants to go out one night without the kids and have a bhang lassi. What should he be on the lookout for and what to avoid (or should that be avoided altogether?
One thing that we’re seeing on travelogues of India is the host going into markets to have clothes made for them. We would love to get the girls some saris and somethin’ fancy for us boys. What’s a good market to go to and what should we expect?
4)Driving. Yes, after reading the posts here (and travel books deemed it “suicidal”), my partner has waved his hand and still wants to get a car in Goa or Kerala so we can see more of the coast. Would driving be any better down on the coast as opposed to Delhi/Mumbai, or would we be equally doomed?
I’m not sure what you mean. Why would the chicken be more risky than anything else served in the restaurant?
The general guideline is don’t eat meat (including poultry, fish, and seafood) in a restaurant where the cooks are vegetarian.
By the way, get ready for a surprise – Indian chickens (and shrimp/prawns) are much more flavorful than the ones we get here.
Sorry, but I can’t really offer any advice on local hallucinogens. If I were going to try it, I’d get someone I knew and trusted to guide me through the experience. There are too many risks of just trying to find a bhang shop on one’s own. And don’t imbibe just anywhere. If you’re going to disable your senses, do it in place you know is safe and there are people around to help if needed.
Tailors are really good and very reasonably priced. Again, I don’t know really how to go about recommending one, though. I’d try to get someone I trusted who lived in the area to recommend a tailor and actually take me there.
What to expect? Well, you choose a fabric, specify any special requests, and get measured. It has been a pretty pleasant experience for me.
No measuring is needed for saris, but saris are worn with blouses that require proper fitting.
The general caveat is that merchants always charge higher prices to foreigners. You’re better off getting a local to interact with merchants on your behalf.
Highway surfaces are often even less well maintained than city streets. And then there’s the people driving with non-functioning headlights and such. And the signage is pretty well nonexistant.
Get a driver. Get a driver. GET A DRIVER. It won’t be that much more expensive (you will have to pay for his food and lodging as well as his fee), but it’s worth it.
The best way to see the country is by rail. Driving across country – well, there are few certainties in life, but it’s just not a good idea.
I will not advise driving in Kerala i But I suggest that you observe traffic for 2 days before deciding to drive yourself. There are some tourists who do it.
That’s great! India is such a wonderful country. Addressing your questions:
1: If a place has a lot of Indian costumers, the food is generally good. I would choose the busy place over the “decent looking” one any day. If you want to eat meat in Delhi, btw, I can really recommend the following places: Karim’s in Old Delhi - right by the big mosque. It is a very old, very popular place, and they make excellent kebabs, tandoori chicken etc… Khan Caca’s (lit. “Uncle Khan’s”) is nothing but a small kebab stall at the rather fancy Khan Market. But the food… especially the mince-meat kebabs. My Og! And if you want something more “high end”, you could try Punjabi by Nature located in the Basant Lok (aka Priya) area in South Delhi. Their leg of lamb is to die for! If you can find it, the Rajinder da Dhaba in Safdarjung Enclave (IIRC) does killer takeaway - I recommend the butter chicken. Drool. In South India you are less likely to find meat, but the vegetarian meals there are amazing! Again (and this goes for Bombay as well): Go for the crowded places where you get your food on a banana leaf for less than a dollar. If you haven’t had South Indian food before, be prepared to enter a whole new world of sensational food! And oh - don’t get me started on the street side snack places. Oboyoboyoboyoboy - I’m really getting hungry.
2: Bhang Lassi. Go for it, but as others have mentioned - be careful! They can vary wildly in strength. Some give a nice li’l buzz, others will leave you incapacitated for 12 hours or more.
3: What ascenray said. And you will probably pay more than the locals regardless of who is negotiating for you. Usually it is still very cheap, so you don’t have to feel all “ripped off”. For some nice readymade clothes (that you could probably wear at home as well) you could try FabIndia. They have several stores in Delhi, and the quality of the clothes is generally pretty good. (My girlfriend just saw their homepage, and I literally had to pry her away from the computer!)
4: Don’t drive - get a driver. As I said earlier in the thread a car + driver is really cheap, and the driver knows how to navigate Indian traffic. You don’t. I am pretty sure that will be obvious to him after a few days there. If you really crave the thrill, rent a bicycle and hit the streets in the old part of towns and cities (or in the countryside). The streets there are generally very narrow, the traffic very slow and very diverse (from 4wd Tata Sumos to cows and donkeys). All in all good fun. (Just don’t do it right after the bhang lassi!)
Remember: India is a huge country - going from Delhi to Kerala will feel like changing continents. Damn. I wanna go too. Now.
Bumping this thread as we’re in our final stages of planning (kinda). Here’s our itinerary so far.
March 28th-Arrive in Delhi-stay in Chandni Chawk
March 29th-A full day in Delhi
March 30th-A long day. Take the Shatabdi Express to Agra, hire a driver to take us to the Taj, Fatehpur Sikri, and the Fort. Then drive us to Jaipur.
March 31st-A full day in Jaipur (elephant ride)
April 1st-Day trip to Ranthambhor national park to look at trees and wish we saw tigers.
April 2nd-Check out of Jaipur and go to ???
April 3rd-7th-???
April 8th-Back to Delhi, stay in Chandni Chawk.
April 9th-Full day in Delhi, plane leaves at 12:30am on April 10th.
My SO really wants to go to Jaisalmer during that empty block and then also go up to Shimla/Rishikesh. But Jaisalmer seems a bit far out of the way and we’d spend a lot of the time traveling. (Although, I really want to see the temple outside of Bikaner). So, what’s the opinion on making that happen or should we skip it and just spend time up in the Shimla/Rishikesh area?
