PA Liquor Control Board wants wine VENDING MACHINES?!

[alphaboi867]

The PA Liquor Control Board is desperate to keep their monopoly. For those of you in more liberal states here's a brief summary of how booze sales in Pennsylvania work. Ever since Prohibition ended every liquor store in the state has been owned & operated by the government and staffed with civil servants. They are the only place one can buy wine* or spirits (hence Wine & Spirits Shoppe). Beer sales are private but only bars, delis, & restaurants may sell 6-packs (limit of 2 per customer) and beer distributors may sell cases only (some are drive-thru). The LCB has been under much pressure to modernize their operations and improve selection. They've gone so far as to open a handful of tiny liquor stores inside supermarkets. Rather than simply allowing supermarkets and grocery stores to sell wine themselves they're considering putting wine vending machines in supermarkets and shopping malls! Age verfication to be conducted via remote control from a central customer service center. I think the whole idea is absurd and it's time for this anachronism to end. Let grocery stores sell beer & wine (like in most states) and privatize the liquor stores! The only function the LCB should have is granting/revoking licences and ensuring liquor laws are followed. Who's with
me?

*Other than a winery.

[Johnny L.A.]

When I was in Italy there was a beer vending machine in the hostel.

[Blalron]

I find it fascinating that some of the most conservative states out there, that would never consider "socialized medicine", are perfectly happy to socialize their alcohol sales.

[wheelie]

Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.

When I was in Italy there was a beer vending machine in the hostel.

When I was in the Navy in Norfolk there was a beer vending machine in the barracks. Beers were 85 cents. No pesky ID check! To think, I used to bitch that I had to walk down and up 3 flights to buy beer underage . Times sure were tough.

[TheLoadedDog]

Originally Posted by Blalron

I find it fascinating that some of the most conservative states out there, that would never consider "socialized medicine", are perfectly happy to socialize their alcohol sales.

It's very strange from the outside looking in - just when I think I'm starting to understand America, I read something like this.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by Blalron

I find it fascinating that some of the most conservative states out there, that would never consider "socialized medicine", are perfectly happy to socialize their alcohol sales.

The people never had a choice. It's been this way for 75 years.

The thing that sucks the most about this is that the profits offset other costs, so to destroy this anachronism would be to cause taxes to skyrocket. Which is worse, a nanny state or an extortionist one?

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

The thing that sucks the most about this is that the profits offset other costs, so to destroy this anachronism would be to cause taxes to skyrocket. Which is worse, a nanny state or an extortionist one?

Eh, that's pretty dubious. Every other state does a fine job of taxing Liquor sales to death and getting their cut. By doing away with that idiotic system they'd recover any shortages in the increased volume sold, the new jobs created, and the reduction of overhead to almost zero.

[GilaB]

Friends of mine who keep kosher and live in Philly find this very inconvenient, as the state liquor stores don't have the best kosher wine selection, to put it mildly. They stock up every so often in Jersey.

[Darryl Lict]

Those archaic liquor laws would drive me nuts. I doubt California has any more alcoholics or drunk drivers per capita than Pennsylvania. Get rid of the state owned stores and the employees and tax the alcohol. I'll bet the state ends up making more money.

I had heard they sell beer in vending machines in Japan. I only found one out in the suburbs, but I have had the pleasure of buying a beer out of a vending machine. I guess they're not as ubiquitous as they once were. Bummer.

[OtakuLoki]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

Every other state does a fine job of taxing Liquor sales to death and getting their cut.

This isn't true on several levels. First off, I can think of at least one other state with a state-owned and run monopoly on liquor and wine sales: New Hampshire.

Secondly, New Hampshire uses the profits from the liquor stores as source of funding for the state. IIRC NH still has no income tax, for example. (Can't call it major when liquor sales bring in $100,000,000 and the state budget is $4.6 billion, but it's not small, either.)

I'm not sure whether the savings that you propose would be there, either.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by OtakuLoki

This isn't true on several levels. First off, I can think of at least one other state with a state-owned and run monopoly on liquor and wine sales: New Hampshire.

Secondly, New Hampshire uses the profits from the liquor stores as source of funding for the state. IIRC NH still has no income tax, for example. (Can't call it major when liquor sales bring in $100,000,000 and the state budget is $4.6 billion, but it's not small, either.)

I'm not sure whether the savings that you propose would be there, either.

You're right, I worded that poorly. I wasn't intending to imply that PA was unique, simply that states with a three-tier system recover their share of revenue to fund the state without any trouble. I would wager that privatizing the distribution is a much more profitable situation for the state than socializing it. State-controlled liquor sales are probably more motivated by puritanical reasons than economic ones.

[DMark]

Nice thing about living in Nevada is you can buy beer and wine at any grocery store, 24 hours a day, every day of the week.

Regarding the vending machines - I have seen beer vending machines everywhere in Germany and was a little surprised.

Then one of my German students came to the US for a business meeting, saw a machine in the hotel lobby and bought several beers to take up to his hotel room.

Imagine his shock at his very first taste of Root Beer.

I think he is still trying to get the taste of that out of his mouth.

[Mojo Pin]

Originally Posted by Darryl Lict

I had heard they sell beer in vending machines in Japan. I only found one out in the suburbs, but I have had the pleasure of buying a beer out of a vending machine. I guess they're not as ubiquitous as they once were. Bummer.

Had em in the hotel we stayed in this march for our school trip. It had a little sensor where you put your drivers license or some kind electronic ID, I dunno what, for age verification. Anyway there was a sign taped on it that said "Out of Order," but it took us maybe three minutes to figure out that while the ID system was out of order, the vending part of the machine was merely unplugged.

[Solfy]

Ah, Pennsylvania, where they've got an iron grip on the booze sales, but they want to lease out the turnpike to Australians.
I long ago quit trying to make sense of the place. I'm with you, alphaboi867.

[Anne Neville]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

Who's with me?

Me, me, me, me me!

Anne, frustrated wine geek who moved here last year from California

[Siege]

I'm just annoyed that it's hard to buy 1 bottle of beer when I want to make bread. Also, last fall, I tasted Mozart, a wonderful chocolate liqueur. I went to my local liquor store to ask about it and found out it's $30USD a bottle and the smallest amount I can order is a case. Apparently one of the rationales behind the state store system is it's one of the few things standing between us and rampant alcoholism.

By the way, it's also illegal to bring in alcohol from out of state. This is why, when I visit a friend in West Virginia and I see beer and wine for sale in a grocery store, I've been known to think, "Oh yes, civilization!"

[Madd Maxx]

Originally Posted by Siege

By the way, it's also illegal to bring in alcohol from out of state.

Of course, they would have to catch you first and then prove it wasn't bought in PA.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by Blalron

I find it fascinating that some of the most conservative states out there, that would never consider "socialized medicine", are perfectly happy to socialize their alcohol sales.

Not to hijack this thread, but Harrisburg has in fact considered "socialized medicine".
http://www.csrwire.com/News/11424.html
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...7-1370625.html

[davidm]

Originally Posted by Madd Maxx

Of course, they would have to catch you first and then prove it wasn't bought in PA.

I don't know if it's still done, but at one time PA State Troopers would sit just on the PA side of the Jersey border and pull over people who had gone across to buy liquor at the less expensive Jersey liquor stores that are just over the border.

[BrainGlutton]

[click-clank-click]

[ka-CHUNK]

[pause]

It's a good year. All right, week.

[alphaboi867]

I get really pissed when people try and argue that privatizing liquor sales will lead to more underage drinking. I'm 23 and get carded in bars, resturants, clubs, and one movie theatre. When I buy six-packs or go to a winery outlet get carded too. Anyone care to guess what the one place that almost never cards me is?

SPOILER:

I you guessed state store you are correct. I've been carded exactly twice in state store. Then again do we really expect the LCB to pay fines to itself? Here in the private sector if I get caught selling so much as a single pack of cigarettes to a minor I WILL be fired. No warning, no second chance, etc. And that's fired for cause so no unemployment either. Gee I wonder what happens to one of the LCB's unionized civil servants?

[Agent Foxtrot]

Thank you for creating this thread. A few weeks ago, I was camping in western PA when I volunteered to make a beer and liquor run for everyone. Town was only about 7 minutes away.

I was gone for three hours. Not only did the roads around this town not make any sense, but it seemed no one knew exactly how to get to the guv'mint liquor store, in spite of my stopping about five times to ask different people. Couldn't wrap my head around the fact that I couldn't buy a six-pack of beer, either (no one bothered to tell me to try a bar). By the time I got back to camp, I was ready to commit seppuku.

Now I understand why people say Pennsylvania is such a screwed up state. I wouldn't live there if you paid me.

[gigi]

Originally Posted by OtakuLoki

This isn't true on several levels. First off, I can think of at least one other state with a state-owned and run monopoly on liquor and wine sales: New Hampshire.

You can buy beer and wine in grocery stores in NH, and I think all night at the 24-hour ones. Convenience stores and country stores also have wine (and of course beer). Hard liquor is what you can only get at the liquor store, and the liquor stores are run by the State.

[Two and a Half Inches of Fun]

In PA, if I wanted to throw a party and wanted to get a couple of cases of beer, some tequila, and a six pack of another kind of beer, do I have to go to three stores? If I also wanted some margarita mix, do I have to go to another store?

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by Two and a Half Inches of Fun

In PA, if I wanted to throw a party and wanted to get a couple of cases of beer, some tequila, and a six pack of another kind of beer, do I have to go to three stores?

Yes. A Wine and Spirits Shoppe, a Beer Distributor, and a bar.

If I also wanted some margarita mix, do I have to go to another store?

You can get that at a Wine and Spirits Shoppe or a supermarket, as long as it has no alcohol.

[Two and a Half Inches of Fun]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

Yes. A Wine and Spirits Shoppe, a Beer Distributor, and a bar.



You can get that at a Wine and Spirits Shoppe or a supermarket, as long as it has no alcohol.

That really sucks.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Two and a Half Inches of Fun

That really sucks.

Until a few years ago you couldn't buy anything that wasn't wine or spirits in a state store (no mixers, no corksrews, etc). Buy the way since all the liquor stores are government run they're also closed on every public holiday. Not just the big ones like Thanksgiving and Christmas but on days like Labor Day, Columbus Day, and MLK Day.

[lizardling]

Doesn't WA state also have state liquor stores? Wine and such gets sold in grocery stores -- Safeway, Whole Foods, what have you. But if you want liquor, off to the state stores you go.

And I definitely agree that the stores don't always have the best selection.

[Neptunian Slug]

Originally Posted by Blalron

I find it fascinating that some of the most conservative states out there, that would never consider "socialized medicine", are perfectly happy to socialize their alcohol sales.

One of the most conservative states? What? You spend a whole week in Forest County and figure the whole state was like that?

Besides the failure to liberalize the alcohol regime is an unholy alliance of left and right and green.

The union-card carrying liberals vote against privatization because the public sector unions don't want the state store employees with their state benefits, pensions and wages going away to be replaced by minimum wage cashier jobs.

The other side of couse doesn't believe anyone should drink.

And of course there is a third factor which is that beer distributors and bars distribute a good share of their income in the form of campaign contributions to any politicians who will listen.

The gaming lobby got it right. The slots law that they helped craft created a toothless gaming control board that allows anyone who is politically connected to own a casino. You can even get a license if you are connected to the mob. If you want a gaming license in PA, make sure a few good friends of the local pol are cut in for a limited partnership interest.

If we want free and open booze, all we have to do is craft a law that allows a members of the General Assembly to make money off it and you won't believe how fast the opposition melts away.

[engineer_comp_geek]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

Buy the way since all the liquor stores are government run they're also closed on every public holiday.

Yes, but when the government shuts down, they stay open. We know where our priorities are! Screw the poor people who need food and critical services. Keep the cases of beer flowing!

[Darryl Lict]

In Utah, you can only buy 3.2 beer in grocery stores. Oddly enough, you can buy 3.2 beer 24/7. I find this pretty cool, but it is pretty hard to get a buzz drinking 3.2. The state liquor store actually has a fairly decent selection, better than a typical grocery store in California. The price isn't horrible. It's probably 30% more expensive than Costco. Of course, it's fucked if you want to try to buy anything out of the ordinary.

I now know that the most booze that you can take on an airplane is 5 liters. I tried to bring four 1.75 liter bottles of booze on the plane via a checked in hard shell suitcase. Fucking TSA unwrapped my carefully bubblewrapped booze (Costco only sells 1.75 liter bottles in GLASS bottles!) and made me toss out a bottle. Of course, their crappy repackaging sans the removed bottle was SHIT and the tequila bottle broke and I ended up wandering around Sundance smelling like tequila for the whole week. Actually, I washed my clothes, but it really was a pisser.

It's about 60 miles to Wyoming from Park City, which does a booming business in liquor sales. If only to be environmentally sound, they should bag this stupid concept of state sold liquour.

[Audrey Levins]

And here I was, envying states that sell liquor at grocery stores, and liquor stores that don't close at nine o'clock...

Little knowing that I am in fact LUCKY, compared to the residents of Pennsylvania.

Texas does have its fair share of weird-ass liquor laws, though. Like you can't order a drink in a bar before noon on Sundays unless you order food with it. If the bar doesn't serve food, you can't get a drink at all.

The rest of the time you can get a drink at 7 a.m. if the bar has the proper license.

Where I work (at a bar without food), this leads to occasional annoyed and befuddled out-of-towners sitting at my bar twenty to noon on Sunday, scratching their heads and tapping their fingers about "stupid Texas laws."

(I kinda like saying no, though. I'm a petty person.)

[Furious_Marmot]

Oklahoma probably has the best stupid twist on liquor laws. No state-run stores, supermarkets can only sell 3.2 beer, private liquor stores can sell regular beer, wine, and hard liquor, but no cups, ice, corkscrews or mixers. But here's the fun part: the liquor stores cannot sell any of the products cold. So, many good quality beers that should be refrigerated until consumed sit for weeks in the wholesaler's non-climate controlled warehouse (which can get nice and warm in the summer), before being shipped via unrefrigerated truck to a store where they sit at room temperature. Tasty. The system will never change, the handful of distributors are owned by politically powerful families.
I wonder if the dearth of good supermarkets in this state is partially attributable to the state's arbitrary denial of their ability to sell an entire category of products, which presumably have a fairly high profit margin.

[Creaky]

Holy crap, that is so cool I am almost shaking from the adrenaline rush I just got.

Seriously, seriously cool. And very convenient.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Originally Posted by Creaky

Holy crap, that is so cool I am almost shaking from the adrenaline rush I just got.

Seriously, seriously cool. And very convenient.

...What?

[elfkin477]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

You're right, I worded that poorly.

No, he's not right. As Gigi said we can buy beer and wine in grocery stores and convenient stores. And department stores that sell refrigerated food. And at most drug stores...

[Creaky]

Originally Posted by Agent Foxtrot

...What?

The first part of my answer was kind of a joke. I like to drink, so I was expressing a kind of delighted excitement at the prospect of easily available alcohol.

The second part was serious. I am in Pennsylvania a lot and being able to pick up a bottle of wine at a mall (especially!) or grocery store while on the run would make my life much easier. Having to find a wine and spirits place can be a pain if you're in a hurry because I haven't seen too many. Much easier to find a shopping center or mall or grocery store.

[Siam Sam]

You can get beer in vending machines here.

You used to be able to buy alcohol in stores around the clock in Thailand, but get this: Now you cannot buy after midnight or -- this is the weird part -- from 2-5pm. That's 2-5 in the afternoon. Something about school letting out then, and they don't want it available to students. The smaller places will ignore the law, but larger places like Western-style supermarkets and 7-Elevens and such are more high profile and have to obey.

[danceswithcats]

It's been so stupid for so long, we long-term residents are used to it. AFSCME is a powerful union, and has a powerful lobby.

Heck-I can remember when you couldn't buy a beer or liquor on election day until after the polls had closed at 8 PM.

[Risha]

For the record, online liquor stores won't deliver to Pennsylvania, either. (Part of the "no transporting across state lines" law.) I checked quite a few when I wanted to send my step-father some whiskey for his birthday.

I remember state troopers waiting at the border to Delaware when I was a kid, in order to catch people ducking across for tax-free cigarette shopping. My parents mentioned to me several times about the ones waiting for liquor runs to Jersey.