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  #1  
Old 05-28-2008, 10:53 AM
Cluricaun Cluricaun is offline
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Charged with two counts of DUI?

Someone I know showed up in the local paper police blotter the other day for being stopped in connection with a DUI. The snippet says that they were charged with two counts of DUI. How does something like that work? How do you get two charges off of one time being caught, and does that count then automatically as a second DUI offence in terms of sentancing?
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  #2  
Old 05-28-2008, 10:56 AM
robardin robardin is offline
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Just a WAG, but perhaps the driver was "under the influence" of two statutorily separate substances (i.e., both drunk and stoned on marijuana)?
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Old 05-28-2008, 10:57 AM
Cluricaun Cluricaun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robardin
Just a WAG, but perhaps the driver was "under the influence" of two statutorily separate substances (i.e., both drunk and stoned on marijuana)?
That's what I was thinking, but all my Googling was stuck on lawyers I can hire and not much on explanation. I think the idea is that if you're looking, you already know what you did.
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  #4  
Old 05-28-2008, 11:42 AM
mlees mlees is offline
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Maybe they caught him leaving a convenience store already drunk.

Scenario: He got drunk at home, went to liquor store to get more beer. (1st count.) The police catch him pulling out of the parking lot drunk. (2nd count.)

Breathalizer can establish BAC. Store security video can show that he did not stay around store long enough (and didn't drink) to get drunk while on premises.
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  #5  
Old 05-28-2008, 11:48 AM
Loach Loach is offline
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Just a guess and it is of course different from state to state. If you are first witnessed driving in one town and are caught in another you can get charged in both towns. I have never seen this happen in a normal I didn't catch up to him until he crossed the border situation. I have seen this happen after a chase. For instance if a suspect runs into a parked car in one town, gets chased, chrashes into a pole in the next town, he will be charged with two DUIs. Two instances, two separate accidents. Two DUIs.

WAG (not as likely): Also in my state refusal to submit to a breath test holds the same penalties as a DUI conviction. I can see it being a part of the same statute in some states and maybe reported as a second charge.
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Old 05-28-2008, 11:49 AM
Cluricaun Cluricaun is offline
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Ok, from additional Google time it looks like it might be one charge for driving with a .08 or higher, and driving under the influence but I still don't understand how that constitues two seperate crimes. That's like charging someone who shoots someone else with attempted murder and murder. Well not exactly the same, but I don't get how one crime gets you two charges when they're that closely related.
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Old 05-28-2008, 11:58 AM
Loach Loach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cluricaun
Ok, from additional Google time it looks like it might be one charge for driving with a .08 or higher, and driving under the influence but I still don't understand how that constitues two seperate crimes. That's like charging someone who shoots someone else with attempted murder and murder. Well not exactly the same, but I don't get how one crime gets you two charges when they're that closely related.
Well in New Jersey this is combined in one statute but the reasoning is the same. The BAC reading is the per se argument. No impairment has to be proven. As long as the BAC is over the limit no evidence of impairment is needed. On the other hand you can also be convicted if you are impaired even if your BAC is lower than the limit. Looks like your state just decided it would be better to have two different statutes. In New Jersey it is written to state that it is illegal to drive while intoxicated or with a BAC of .08% or higher.

Last edited by Loach; 05-28-2008 at 11:59 AM..
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:05 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cluricaun
Ok, from additional Google time it looks like it might be one charge for driving with a .08 or higher, and driving under the influence but I still don't understand how that constitues two seperate crimes. That's like charging someone who shoots someone else with attempted murder and murder. Well not exactly the same, but I don't get how one crime gets you two charges when they're that closely related.
By charging you with alternate crimes, they can convict you even if it turns out that the bloodwork evidence gets tossed out, or they otherwise can't establish .08+.
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:06 PM
Bricker Bricker is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cluricaun
Ok, from additional Google time it looks like it might be one charge for driving with a .08 or higher, and driving under the influence but I still don't understand how that constitues two seperate crimes. That's like charging someone who shoots someone else with attempted murder and murder. Well not exactly the same, but I don't get how one crime gets you two charges when they're that closely related.
The double jeopardy rule is the principle offended when a single crime is tried twice or punished twice.

The rule is that two crimes are different for purposes of double jeopardy if each requires proof of an element that the other does not.
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  #10  
Old 05-28-2008, 12:11 PM
Cluricaun Cluricaun is offline
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So then if there's two charges does this automatically count as your second DUI, since the penalties are much higher for your second?
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  #11  
Old 05-28-2008, 12:28 PM
Mr. Moto Mr. Moto is offline
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No, because they are charges stemming from a single crime.
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  #12  
Old 05-28-2008, 12:30 PM
Cluricaun Cluricaun is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Moto
No, because they are charges stemming from a single crime.
Got it, so they charge you with both to make sure that one or the other sticks, and then you are actually only penalized for the one crime they decide to ultimately charge you with, right?
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  #13  
Old 05-28-2008, 12:41 PM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cluricaun
Got it, so they charge you with both to make sure that one or the other sticks, and then you are actually only penalized for the one crime they decide to ultimately charge you with, right?
That's somewhat the way it works here in Wisconsin. You are charged with OWI (operating while intoxicated) and DUI (Driving Under the Influence). Both are seperate offenses.

OWI can simply mean you were over .08, in the car with the key in the ignition. You could be parked on the street, but because you were behind the wheel with key in the ignition you were still operating. DWI means you were actually driving on a public roadway.

People are usually charged with both, cop a plea to one and the other is dropped (but read in at the plea to the other). Or if you go to trial and lose, you're guilty of both. I am not an attorney and none of this constitutes legal advice.
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  #14  
Old 05-28-2008, 01:44 PM
ShermanAter ShermanAter is offline
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The way it works in Washington State is if you get a DUI and it is a first offense you may petition the court for a deferred prosecution.

If you complete a 2 year intensive outpatient program and have no other alcohol related violations, your record will not reflect a DUI conviction.

However, you will be on probation for 7 years and if you receive a 2nd DUI you will be charged with both offenses.
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  #15  
Old 05-28-2008, 02:45 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is offline
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Another WAG:
In some states, you can be charged with dui and then extreme dui if the BAC is higher than a specific amount.
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  #16  
Old 05-28-2008, 04:22 PM
PaulParkhead PaulParkhead is offline
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A friend of mine was charged with DUI in PA. He showed me the court sheet, or whatever it's properly called, that listed the charges.

This was a few years ago, but I seem to recall that "Operating a vehicle while impaired by alcohol or drugs" and "BAC greater than .08" were separate charges. Colloquially, that might amount to "two counts of DUI".
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  #17  
Old 05-28-2008, 04:52 PM
robardin robardin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulParkhead
This was a few years ago, but I seem to recall that "Operating a vehicle while impaired by alcohol or drugs" and "BAC greater than .08" were separate charges.
Unless simply being drunk (BAC > 0.08) is a crime in and of itself, or applies even to a passenger in a vehicle, I don't see how this doesn't amount to doubling up on the same crime...
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:36 PM
Loach Loach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robardin
Unless simply being drunk (BAC > 0.08) is a crime in and of itself, or applies even to a passenger in a vehicle, I don't see how this doesn't amount to doubling up on the same crime...
Because it isn't. As I said earlier. The BAC reading of the blood is the per se argument. The reading is enough. It is illegal to drive with a BAC of over .08%. No other factors need to be present. It is also illegal to be driving while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Sometimes you can have one and not the other. Sometimes both apply. For instance someone who is not used to drinking can show impairment at a lower level than .08% BAC. Also someone can have a much higher level but impairment was never witnessed such as after an accident when no sobreity tests are given. Or the suspect may have a .00 BAC because he is impaired by a drug and not alcohol. Even though my state combines both the per se charge and the impairment charge under one statute I can see how they could be separated.
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  #19  
Old 05-29-2008, 02:36 AM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cluricaun
Got it, so they charge you with both to make sure that one or the other sticks, and then you are actually only penalized for the one crime they decide to ultimately charge you with, right?
No, you are penalized only for the one(s) where the jury finds you guilty. That might be whichever one has the most solid evidence, or it might even be both of them.
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  #20  
Old 05-29-2008, 03:43 AM
neutron star neutron star is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42
Another WAG:
In some states, you can be charged with dui and then extreme dui if the BAC is higher than a specific amount.
This is what happened to my friend. He got charged with a regular DUI and then a DUI Highest Level for being .16 or higher (he was .17). Same deal if you get a DUI and have other drugs in your system.

In the papers he got from the District Justice, they're listed as two seperate crimes.
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  #21  
Old 05-29-2008, 11:00 AM
Missy2U Missy2U is offline
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Clur, I got my DUI in 1990 or so - I was charged with Driving Under the Influence, as well as driving with a BAC over a certain limit, (there's your two charges) as well as improper lane usage and some other stuff. So yeah, it's two separate charges.
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  #22  
Old 05-29-2008, 05:04 PM
Moirai Moirai is offline
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Sounds like a bad night for the alleged offender... My husband was once involved in a case where the guy had multiple strike offenses in a single, wild night of crime and violence. Didn't turn out well for the guy, as I recall... I think he racked up all three strikes in the end, but I'm not 100% sure, so I'll check.
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