Entry-level Linux – where do I start?

Factual Questions
1

I need to be able to read a Linux-written drive from an external enclosure, and copy files to either a USB drive or another internal Windows drive. The copied files will be used in both my XP-Pro or in an OSX system. I don’t think I need to write to the drive. The external enclosure is a Rosewill RX353, if it makes a difference. If I need to get a different enclosure, that probably won’t be a problem.

Why? I have a NAT device (a Linksys NAS200) that is a mini-Linux box. It has two drives in there mirrored in RAID(1), and I’ve been told it stores things in an XFS filesystem on the first partition of the drive(s). In the event of a hardware calamity (we just had a substantial hiccup that freaked us out—Linksys is replacing the unit), I need to be able to access the data off the drives in as short amount of time as possible.

Do I start with a boot disk? Will it control my USB ports? Will it be able to recognize my NTFS drives? Will it be able to write to them? Can I get a virtual machine to work with minimal tweaking? Is there a flavor of Linux that is super-duper easy to install/use for this purpose? I don’t need it to run any programs (save file copy), or do any fancy graphics—I just need it to read a Linux drive, write to a PC/Mac-accessible drive, and not muck up anything else on my system.

My knowledge of Linux is limited to knowing that there are three different pronunciations. I hate sounding like I don’t want to learn, but at this juncture I don’t plan on doing much more than accomplishing drive-reading (any tech-time I have to learn things goes into PHP and MySQL).

Oh, and dirt cheap or free would be very, very happymaking.

Thanks,

Rhythm

(oh, sorry if this should be in IMHO)

2

Seems like the easiest thing to do would be to use a Live CD. Many distros, like Ubunto, offer them. You can download an image file and burn it to a CD. You can then boot Linux off of the CD and do whatever you need to do.

The trickiest part will be writing to a drive format that Windows can read. The NTFS write support, AFAIK, is at best experimental.

3

Linux can write to FAT easily, that’s really the only file system that it can share read/write access with windows.

4

I did a quick google on the NAS200, and it looks like it’s not that expensive, and it’s possible to flash the firmware and get access to its Linux OS. And it sounds like your ultimate goal is merely to have a little more robust disaster recovery, regardless of method. How about this: just buy another one, slap in some disks, and have one grab the data from the other one every night. Or hour. Instead, they have USB ports; you could just buy an external USB drive big enough to hold vital data, and copy it over (this is what I actually do for my photos on a WD MyBook II).

5

Nope, not true at all anymore. Read and write to NTFS now comes built into the kernel. See ntfs-3g

6

Equally, you could just buy another and put it in a cupboard until needed. I wouldn’t have it live as something that takes out one may take out the other. If your main one fails, simply transplant the disks.

7

I highly recommend the Ubuntu desktop live cd if you want to just try it out and see if you like it. I went away from linux for a long time, so I wasn’t up to date on the latest distributions and wanted to try some out. I booted the Ubuntu live cd on my XP machine, not wanting to commit, and the whole thing went so smoothly, I ended up just going ahead and running the install process to shrink my XP partition and make ubuntu the default boot option. It gave me full read-write access to my NTFS partition under linux, and even went to the trouble of creating user accounts corresponding to the XP accounts I already had on that machine (including such niceties as going and finding their user icons and browser bookmarks).

The nice thing about the live cd is that there’s no commitment in just trying it out, but it’s still a fairly full-featured install. Don’t like it? Hit the power button.

8

There’s a mini Linux package called RIP (Recovery Is Possible) that is specifically dedicated to recovery. Comes in command line and windowed versions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_Is_Possible

9

One that might be better: SystemRescue.

I’ve never used RIP, and so can’t speak to its usability (although I have little doubt that it works as advertised). I use SystemRescue whenever I need to…ummm…rescue a system (yes, Windows systems also, with read/write to NTFS). But it’s not for a total novice; for instance, it boots by default into a command-line environment.

If you’re really the Linux noob you proclaim, I’d probably use an Ubuntu desktop LiveCD. (Note that every recent Ubuntu install CD is a LiveCD, AFAIK.)

10

Thanks for the replies – we’ve been doing several back-to-back all nighters with sixteen-hour days between, so I’m sorry I didn’t reply with my gratitude sooner. I thought to add something of an epilogue for future readers.

For some reason, Ubuntu would never fully load. I had the correct version (for x86 machines), and it got me almost to a desktop, but never fully loaded. The CD MD5s checked out, but rather then push my way through I gave Knoppix a try. It’s said to have a small footprint and is geared towards running from CD. I downloaded a copy of Knoppix, burned it to CD, and put it in an old (circa 2000) Dell Inspiron 8100 laptop. It booted up without a problem, and I poked around on the desktop for a spell.
Very nice. As a well-versed Windows user, there were some differences (duh), but all in all I was able to navigate, mount, change write permissions all with no experience in Linux, thanks to the GUI. It wasn’t overly hand-holdy or do-it-for-me-ish, but solutions were clearly visible. For example, after saying I couldn’t write to the flash drive because I didn’t have permissions, a right click on the drive showed an option to change permissions.

While it was running, I created a simple text file, copied it to the USB drive, and was able to open the file on the main PC and Mac. The laptop was able to reboot to XP as if nothing happened. I then powered down the NAS, pulled a drive from it, and put it in a Rosewill RX353-S USB external enclosure. I restarted Knoppix, and without a hiccup it was able to detect the drive, then read and copy a .jpg from the enclosure to the USB flash drive. Again, I was able to open the file from both the PC and the Mac.
This whole effort is targeted at the possibility that the NAS could die on a Sunday night when the wife and I are working toward a Monday morning deadline. With the Knoppix CD, laptop, and enclosure all safely ensconced on the shelf, we can be up and running within fifteen to twenty minutes of a breakdown, without even restarting our own machines.

Thanks!

11

Why not use a tool such as explore2fs or Linux Reader to mount the ext2 or ext3 formatted Linux drive in Windows using any old USB drive enclosure?

If you can mount the Linux drive in Windows, can’t you do everything you need if there is a disaster?

Of course, I like Ubuntu a lot and would prefer the Linux option, but you may find it easier to do it this way.

12

Wow, this sounds fantastically easy!

Except there’s one problem.

I think I want to keep toying with Linux. I should never have looked it directly in the eyes.

Unrelated to the above, I’m about to do a reinstall of XP – if I want to keep my Linux options open, any suggestions as to what sized partition to leave open? Will it be as simple as it seems to install a dual-boot system, or am I getting into things that are going to overly tax my rather scattered attention?

13

Interesting, but ntfs-3g is not a part of the kernel. The kernel still uses ntfsprogs which can’t create new files or directories under ntfs. ntfs support has actually been in the kernel since 1995, but has never been reliable. Is ntfs-3g something a Linux noob should use?

Rhythmdvl, dual-booting is pretty simple. As far as partition size, I’d say 20 gigs would be the minimum I’d start with. That would be about 10 gigs for the base Linux OS, plus room to play with some large files if necessary. That’s a little reverse experience talking. I have 320 gigs for Linux and only 12 gigs for XP. I can use XP on the rare occasion that I need it, but don’t have room to, say, encode/burn a DVD while I’m using it. Leave enough room for Linux as you would leave to use XP semi-comfortably.

14

Well now, this is getting silly.

After my micro-burst of education, I’m starting to look at Ubuntu Server Edition more and more.

In our little home office, we have two computers, a PC and a Mac. There are also two laptops that occasionally plug into the network (it’s nice to work in the garden from time to time).

The sole reason for the Linksys NAS is to act as a file server, so we can work on the same project (e.g., editing and designing the same book). It looks—from the marketing information and other lands I’ve visited—like the Server Edition has file serving and network integration modules already built in. I may want to add Web, PHP, and MySQL functionality later for projects’ pre-rollout testing, but it’s not necessary.

For hardware, I have plenty of equipment from old builds to experiment with. Given the purpose (i.e., no substantial programs running on it, just the file server and a utility or two), a new board/CPU/RAM combination will run around $150–200 (if that). This will allow me to set up a hardware RAID and take advantage of gigabit Ethernet, a couple things the Linksys unit doesn’t do (software RAID, 4Mbps transfer).

A little more digging turns up plenty of backup utilities that can run resident on the server to do incremental backups, again something that the Linksys doesn’t do right now.

Could it really be this simple?

Well, not simpler per se. But… but … but I can put together a box in a couple hours or so. I don’t think I need to spend all that much time on hardware shopping. I’m a fan of Asus, so that keep the looking around easy. Again, I don’t foresee needing any high-end or fast equipment, so matching it with a basic processor shouldn’t take more than an hour or so of research. So including the install, I’m looking at about a day so far. Maybe.

It appears that integrating it into the network should be seamless. But I’ll allow for a working day to get the kinks ironed out. The file server also looks like straight forward, but add another day of tinkering just in case (because nothing ever goes as smoothly as it should). Heck, add a fourth day for fun, but it’s looking like I can get this up and running within a week with no interruption to the existing network, and little interruption to my workaday activities.

Am I being crazy here, or is it really possible to roll this out in as short a span of time as I’m thinking—or even double? Granted, there will be a lot more learning than I initially considered (wait…didn’t I say I wasn’t looking to learn a lot about Linux? :rolleyes: ), but it seems the speed and reliability (backups) might be worth it. If it is, indeed, as simple as it seems.

Please let me know if I’m insane (in this regard, that is). I’m still a complete Linux newbie, but I’m not technically inept—I’ve been building my own machines since x386 days, and I’ve taught myself enough PHP and MySQL to build custom surveys and document libraries for clients. Can it really be this easy or am I getting too big for my britches?

Thanks!

15

One thing that I would caution you is to be sure that there is good Linux compatibility for any components you purchase. Linux is mostly at the mercy of the hardware manufacturers for good drive support, so compatibility can be spotty. I’m not sure how big a problem this can be for a server, though.

I’ve never tried to setup a Linux server before so I can’t give you any advice there.

16

Good call – I did a bit of checking and found a press release (from '05) saying select Asus boards are offering Linux support. I’d haunt the more tech-specific boards (Tom’s, Anandtech) and Linux forums to see what folks are recommending before jumping – I wouldn’t want to take compatibilty for granted!
ETA: There’s also the Linux Newbie Administrator Guide to be read before I start … I’m gung ho, but know when to wing it and when to RTFM. This is definitely the latter.

17

As far as Linux servers go, I go with Ubuntu all the way.

It allows you to very easily set up a lean mean server that has none of the cruft.

I use Ubuntu servers for two key things: File servers (using Samba) and Internet filtering (using DansGuardian).

I have deployed both of these configurations to several cheap old PCs that were beyond their prime; Pentium IV works just fine for this purpose.

Since I have had to do both file servers and Internet filters multiple times, I put together explicit instructions for building each type of server, with tons of screenshots. By following the cheat sheet, I am able to set up a vanilla Samba file server in about a half hour.

Anyone wanting either document send me a PM.

18

I have also found thisarticle, titled “How to build the perfect server using Ubuntu”, to be extremely helpful and detailed if you’re unfamiliar with Ubuntu administration.

19

Just Do It. Ubuntu is wonderful and servers are where Linux shines like a pearl of great price. It may still be struggling on the desktop, but Linux had servers and server software and server administration (from halfway around the world, if needed, even with graphics) figured out by 1998.

It isn’t, unless you have to use a software modem for some ungodly reason. The biggest Linux driver problem now is 3D acceleration for video cards, and most servers are headless (run without monitors attached) anyway.