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  #1  
Old 06-19-2008, 03:36 AM
tesseract tesseract is offline
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is this a terrible middle name to give a child?

We are planning to give our first child -- a boy to arrive in September -- my father's first name as a middle name. It's inoffensive and easy to spell. I'm not worried about that one.

But the other day I asked my husband about whether we should consider giving our second child -- if it's a boy -- my husband's father's name as a middle name. We have a lot of respect for both men and think it would be a nice way to honor them. I also don't want him to feel slighted, so it would be nice do this with both men if we do it with one.

The second boy will probably be named Marley. (The reason I think I'm getting at least two boys is my husband has seven brothers and mostly nephews). My husband's father's name is Godfroy, so the kid's name would be Marley Godfroy [LAST NAME]. In French, Godfroy is pronounced "goad-FWAH." My father-in-law has always lived where French is at least one of the languages spoken, so people have known how to pronounce it. However, we're here in the US, and I'm wondering if: 1)people will think it's weird; 2) people will have no idea how to pronounce it; and 3) kids will make fun of him. On the other hand, is the middle name a big deal? It's not what will get called out in class at school, or whatever...

What do you all think?
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2008, 03:40 AM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is online now
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I think Marley is a bigger issue. People don't much care what other people's middle name is.
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2008, 03:42 AM
Dottygumdrop Dottygumdrop is offline
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How often will your son-to-be use his middle name? Is it something that might commonly come up in conversation, schooling, work, etc.? If son-to-be will be called, and introduced as, "Marley Lastname" or "Marley G. Lastname" in school and so forth, then I don't think it would be a problem.

It's not like you're making up some weird name, it's a valid family name, that he will (hopefully) grow to be proud of, as a link to his family's past!

Last edited by Dottygumdrop; 06-19-2008 at 03:45 AM.. Reason: grammar!! Grrrrr
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  #4  
Old 06-19-2008, 03:42 AM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is offline
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I don't think most Americans will pronounce it correctly, but most people never know another person's middle name unless they are told what it is. My brother has a weird middle name (my mom's maiden name) and I don't think it's ever been an issue for him. Also, kids will always find a reason to tease one another.
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  #5  
Old 06-19-2008, 03:45 AM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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You should name him Herbert Pussycunt. He'll grow up to be the toughest SOB in the school.
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  #6  
Old 06-19-2008, 05:24 AM
GuanoLad GuanoLad is offline
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My middle name is ridiculous. But nobody cares. It's really just a talking point these days, but as a kid it didn't cause me any problems.

Mind you, I had plenty of other annoying personality traits for bullies to pick on, so maybe I'm no judge.
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  #7  
Old 06-19-2008, 05:31 AM
don't ask don't ask is offline
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A friend of mine who is a musician, named his first daughter Marley for musical reasons. Nice name - everyone likes it and I don't think it would be any different for a boy. Middle names come up about once a decade. No one I work with knows mine and it's pretty mundane.
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  #8  
Old 06-19-2008, 05:33 AM
don't ask don't ask is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuanoLad
Mind you, I had plenty of other annoying personality traits for bullies to pick on, so maybe I'm no judge.
The guano, mate, lose the guano.
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2008, 05:53 AM
BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Rat
I think Marley is a bigger issue. People don't much care what other people's middle name is.
Yeah, Marley's a terrible name. Especially if people named Marley can ban you. That's the worst.
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  #10  
Old 06-19-2008, 05:56 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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Quote:
is this a terrible middle name to give a child?
If you have to ask the question, isn't the answer almost certainly 'yes'?
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  #11  
Old 06-19-2008, 07:18 AM
Walkabout Walkabout is offline
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I regret to this day not insisting that my son have my father's middle name, which was also my grandmother's maiden name, as his middle name. I think the middle name is a great place to put a family name. You might want to rethink the "Marley" part of it, though. Isn't that a dog's name?

Last edited by Walkabout; 06-19-2008 at 07:19 AM.. Reason: clarification
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2008, 07:23 AM
ratatoskK ratatoskK is offline
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I don't think Marley is awful, but it does kind of sound like a girl's name (sounds like Carley). Also there will be comments about Marley's ghost and Bob Marley.
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2008, 07:41 AM
CrowJane CrowJane is offline
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My middle name is Danish, and nobody can pronounce it. Yes, people think it's weird, and yes, kids did make fun of it. Even though middle names don't get used that much, these things always get made public eventually - like on graduation day when mine was read out (badly pronounced, of course) to the entire student body and all their parents.
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  #14  
Old 06-19-2008, 08:01 AM
GuanoLad GuanoLad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don't ask
The guano, mate, lose the guano.
Even though that wasn't my name when I was picked on, it was certainly stupid personal decisions just like that which turned out to be my main problem.
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  #15  
Old 06-19-2008, 08:04 AM
Ellen Cherry Ellen Cherry is offline
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I am of the opinion that meaning for names outweighs the "what will people think or say" factor. Name your child what you wish, make sure he understands the meaning behind it and instill in him a pride in his heritage. Then when some dork in high school gives him shit for his name, he can confidently respond that at least he wasn't named for some skank pop singer, or whatever.

I would, however, argue against Peter Maximus on strictly comedic grounds.
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  #16  
Old 06-19-2008, 08:07 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowJane
My middle name is Danish, and nobody can pronounce it.
"Day-nish" - or should it be "dah-nish"?
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  #17  
Old 06-19-2008, 08:27 AM
Harriet the Spry Harriet the Spry is offline
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I agree that the family name thing justifies it if you really want to do it. One alternative did come to mind, though. Does your husband's father have a middle name that's a little easier to work with?
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  #18  
Old 06-19-2008, 08:29 AM
twickster twickster is offline
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I have no idea what my best friend's middle name is -- not even sure what the initial is.
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  #19  
Old 06-19-2008, 08:45 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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At long last, an issue where I unquestionably know better than everyone else on the Dope! Of course, it's a tangent...

Godfroy first: it's hard for a middle name to be really terrible unless you force the kid to use it. But I do think you have to accept the truth here: it's awkward, especially on a little kid (he won't be able to pronounce it for a while); it will always be pronounced American style by everyone else ; and people are going to think it's pretentious. That's not your fault, it's no more pretentious than Smith or any other family name, but it's French and I am sure that's what people will think. If you don't care, it's not a big deal. You're putting more thought into it than anyone else ever will.

As for the Marley issue: I have always enjoyed my name and taken a lot of pride in it, and I consider it something to live up to. (I'm named after Bob Marley.) It's a very rare name among guys, which I've always liked - frankly I'd be the only one, were it up to me. Sometimes people mishear my name just because they don't expect to hear it, and yes, sometimes I get junk mail addressed to "Ms." It gets torn up with prejudice, but it's a minor annoyance. Avoiding the name for those reasons would be stupid in my opinion.
The dog thing... well, there will be a Pit thread before the movie opens in December, I guarantee it. You see "Marley" stickers on SUVs sometimes, which I expect refers to the dog book. Periodically, people come up to me upon learning my name and say "My friend's cousin's brother has a dog named Marley!" I don't know if I'm supposed to smile, thank them, do a happy dance, or what, but if it keeps up, I may slug somebody. I don't know why I'm supposed to give a crap about that. But the truth is, the movie and book will be more or less forgotten in time and I'll get over it. Bob Marley's music and my name aren't going anywhere.
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  #20  
Old 06-19-2008, 09:01 AM
NinetyWt NinetyWt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowJane
like on graduation day when mine was read out (badly pronounced, of course) to the entire student body and all their parents.
Yeah but, after graduation day, you can leave them all and never look back. It shouldn't matter by then. I was teased for a lot of things at school, but my middle name was never one of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23
"My friend's cousin's brother has a dog named Marley!"
Then you might feel better that our dog's name is spelled Marli instead.

Wait, there's a movie coming out titled Marley?
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  #21  
Old 06-19-2008, 09:04 AM
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Nobody pronounces my middle name correctly, never has, never will. I don't mind, it's not like I ever use it. And it was my mom's father's last name, which is a lovely way to honor him. I say go for it!
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  #22  
Old 06-19-2008, 09:05 AM
Eureka Eureka is offline
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I think you are overthinking things. Mostly, I think you are overthinking the likelihood that people--including your family members--will care if you honor both father's by giving them grandsons with their names as middle names or not.

I have friends from college who gave their second daughter the names of the great-grandmothers who were done using their names. (In other words, the child is named for her dead great-grandmothers). No one has asked why she's named for those two great-grandmothers and not the other two--even though both great-grandmothers are on her father's side. The real reason she's named for those two and not for anyone on her mother's side is that the names on the mother's side are cringe-inducingly ugly "old lady names"-- think Mildred or worse.

****
Something else you could consider is giving the child a middle name "inspired" by the name--something similar but more spellable or pronounceable.

But mostly, in my opinion, check to make sure your initials don't spell anything obnoxious--like a preacher's kid I know who almost had the initials SIN, make sure the middle name goes well with the first name for better yelling of the child's full name for attention-getting purposes, and do what makes you happy.
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  #23  
Old 06-19-2008, 09:09 AM
Orual Orual is offline
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Weirdass family names as middle names is perfectly acceptable. However, I don't think that having two names ending in -y right next to each other looks or sounds very good.

And Marley was the name of Will Smith's daughter in I Am Legend.
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  #24  
Old 06-19-2008, 09:17 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinetyWt
Wait, there's a movie coming out titled Marley?
I was recently chagrined to read that a movie version of "Marley and Me" is coming out in December. It's got Jennifer Aniston and Owen Wilson, so you KNOW it's just going to drip with pustules of cinematic brilliance.
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  #25  
Old 06-19-2008, 09:31 AM
BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23
Bob Marley's music and my name aren't going anywhere.
I teach Japanese high school kids in the northern countryside of Honshu. I played a game with my English club where I pinned the names of famous people to the kids' collars where they couldn't read their own, and had to ask questions about who they were.

No one, including my 50+ yr old supervisor, had heard of Bob Marley. I could have cried.
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  #26  
Old 06-19-2008, 09:39 AM
liberty3701 liberty3701 is offline
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I have a weird middle name (Learn) and a dog's name for a first name (Libby), PLUS an apparently impossible to pronounce last name, and I turned out just fine. My full name taken all together is very aristocratically Anglo and hard to forget, which is good in academia. I like it.

I mean, at least you're not giving your kid a middle name that's also a verb -- and a nerdtastic verb at that.
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  #27  
Old 06-19-2008, 09:59 AM
MsWhatsit MsWhatsit is offline
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Middle names are where you go crazy with the bizarre names that honor ancestors or remind you of your favorite comic book, or whatever. Nobody ever knows anyone else's middle name, unless they assassinate a major political figure.

My oldest son's middle name is Doran, after his long-deceased grandfather. I would not have even considered this for a first name, but for a middle name, why not?
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  #28  
Old 06-19-2008, 10:14 AM
nashiitashii nashiitashii is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowJane
My middle name is Danish, and nobody can pronounce it. Yes, people think it's weird, and yes, kids did make fun of it. Even though middle names don't get used that much, these things always get made public eventually - like on graduation day when mine was read out (badly pronounced, of course) to the entire student body and all their parents.
My middle name is of Finnish origin, and I had the same problem any time I graduated: my first name would be pronounced correctly, while the rest of my name would be mangled beyond repair. This happened at my undergraduate graduation as well, even though the speaker had gotten a cue card with a pronunciation guide.

Honestly, I wouldn't have gotten "god-fwah" out of Godfroy, and I think that Marley isn't exactly a fitting name for a boy in my mind.* Either way, it's rare that one's middle name comes up, so I wouldn't worry too much about what middle name you give him as long as you give him a relatively harmless first name. Just don't change your mind and name him Armageddon or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23
Periodically, people come up to me upon learning my name and say "My friend's cousin's brother has a dog named Marley!" I don't know if I'm supposed to smile, thank them, do a happy dance, or what, but if it keeps up, I may slug somebody. I don't know why I'm supposed to give a crap about that.
I get this quite often from people. Apparently they want me to be proud that they named their dog Natasha/Tasha or something. Maybe they're trying to say that I shouldn't have the same name as their dog, or that Natasha is a dog name, not a people name. I don't really get it, other than it's a little odd to mention in reaction to learning my name.

*Of course, I've had to learn that the names I thought were totally awesome names from my ethnic background are completely unpronounceable for most American ears.
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  #29  
Old 06-19-2008, 10:46 AM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract
The second boy will probably be named Marley. (The reason I think I'm getting at least two boys is my husband has seven brothers and mostly nephews). My husband's father's name is Godfroy, so the kid's name would be Marley Godfroy [LAST NAME]. In French, Godfroy is pronounced "goad-FWAH." My father-in-law has always lived where French is at least one of the languages spoken, so people have known how to pronounce it. However, we're here in the US, and I'm wondering if: 1)people will think it's weird; 2) people will have no idea how to pronounce it; and 3) kids will make fun of him. On the other hand, is the middle name a big deal? It's not what will get called out in class at school, or whatever...

What do you all think?
I think French is fucked up. But that's not what you were asking.

It would never have occurred to me to pronounce "Godfroy" as anything other than "God" + "froy" (rhyming with "boy" or "joy"). I've never seen that name before, but I would have assumed it was a variant of "Godfrey." And my own feelings toward it as a middle name would be entirely neutral.
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  #30  
Old 06-19-2008, 10:47 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Quote:
My middle name is Danish, and nobody can pronounce it. Yes, people think it's weird, and yes, kids did make fun of it.
Having Prune as a first name didn't help.
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  #31  
Old 06-19-2008, 10:51 AM
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"My friend's cousin's brother has a dog named Marley!"

The correct response to this outburst is, "My cousin's friend's brother has a rat named [insert their name here]!"

Say it with the same pride and exuberance that they have expressed. Just lob that ball right back at them. Then wait and see how they respond. I expect they will be as confused as you are by what to say next.
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  #32  
Old 06-19-2008, 11:03 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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I may have to hold you responsible for what happens when I do that.
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  #33  
Old 06-19-2008, 11:18 AM
Cat Fight Cat Fight is offline
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Middle names are weird. People always seem to be embarrassed of them, for some reason. Even if they're something quite normal, when you ask them, they always reveal it with a wince. 'Elizabeth,' *cringe*. I think they're great place for 'family' names.
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  #34  
Old 06-19-2008, 11:20 AM
astro astro is online now
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Middle names are largely socially irrelevant, and having an unusual one can actually be a conversational asset at times. You need to focus on the fact that you should not slight your father's father if you have already used your fathers name for your first son. The grandfather will feel a special connection to your (potential) son if he is bearing his name. He will feel slighted if you do not give him the same recognition you gave your father.

Beyond this anyone loading up their potential kid with a somewhat oddball name like "Marley" should not be worrying about "Godfroy". It would be great to have "Godfroy" to fall back on if I was saddled with "Marley". To tell my friends and employers that I wanted them to call me goad-FWAH." would be a blast No one would EVER forget my name.

"Marley"... eh.. not so much. It's a dog's name.
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  #35  
Old 06-19-2008, 11:38 AM
Mama Zappa Mama Zappa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23
...
Periodically, people come up to me upon learning my name and say "My friend's cousin's brother has a dog named Marley!" I don't know if I'm supposed to smile, thank them, do a happy dance, or what...
Bark at them and pee on their leg. That'll larn 'em!

Back to the OP:

Neither name excites me but Godfroy as a middle name won't get used that often. As long as you don't care that when it's pronounced, it'll be pronounced "god froy" to rhyme with "odd boy", go with it. I expect Marley (the dog's name) will get forgotten in time also, though I admit my first thought would be it's a girl's name also (Marlee Matlin, for example).

Oh - and I come from a standpoint of having a name that's the French variant of a common one. 75% of people call me by the English version, 20% of people call me by the Spanish variant, and the rest call me "sir" because they're speaking to me on the phone and I have a deep voice and they think they've gotten my husband. If I were naming a kid and wanted to use that name , I'd use one of the other variants! My spouse's name is the same as a nursery-rhyme character and he got teased a lot as a kid. So we're somewhat sensitive, though maybe not to the "that's ahz-WEE-pay" degree from the SNL sketch!

Last edited by Mama Zappa; 06-19-2008 at 11:42 AM..
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  #36  
Old 06-19-2008, 11:50 AM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink
I think French is fucked up. But that's not what you were asking.

It would never have occurred to me to pronounce "Godfroy" as anything other than "God" + "froy" (rhyming with "boy" or "joy"). I've never seen that name before, but I would have assumed it was a variant of "Godfrey." And my own feelings toward it as a middle name would be entirely neutral.
Godroy/Godfroi is a variant of old French/Middle English "Godefroi".

Why not just let him pronounce it as Godfrey?

(BTW, I think Marley is a cool name)
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  #37  
Old 06-19-2008, 12:56 PM
Tastes of Chocolate Tastes of Chocolate is offline
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Like many have said, I see middle names as mostly irrelevant. Other then Mom yelling "Marley Godfroy" when he's in trouble, it will rarely get used.

But...
Please take a look at what the initials spell out. Initials get used more often, and you'd hate to be Peggy Irene when she reallized her initials are P.I.G.
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  #38  
Old 06-19-2008, 01:11 PM
cormac262 cormac262 is offline
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Again, I wouldn't sweat the middle name. Mine is ethnic and no one ever pronounces it correctly (same for my last name). But it rarely comes up.

I have always heard that the best rule of thumb for a name is the "retrieve the child holler" test. When the kid gets to be around 8 or 9, when it's dinner time and the kid is out playing, you'll be standing outside calling for him.

Now if it is late, and your husband is doing the calling, AND it is around Christmas time.....people might think your husband's name is Ebeneezer ;-)
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  #39  
Old 06-19-2008, 01:53 PM
jsc1953 jsc1953 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cormac262
Now if it is late, and your husband is doing the calling, AND it is around Christmas time.....people might think your husband's name is Ebeneezer ;-)
Thank you! Thirty eight posts before anybody mentions Scrooge's partner? It's the only thing I thought of! What the hell was with all the "dog name" references?
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  #40  
Old 06-19-2008, 02:01 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Regarding Dickens, by the way: I'm 26, and in my entire life I think two people have asked me if I was named for the Christmas Carol ghost. I guess most people realize he's not the kind of character you name a kid for. Lots of people say "Oh, like Bob Marley?" which isn't exactly imaginative, but it's true in my case. So there isn't much to do about it, other than wish they would say something about his music rather than just recognizing the name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1953
Thank you! Thirty eight posts before anybody mentions Scrooge's partner? It's the only thing I thought of! What the hell was with all the "dog name" references?
ratatoskK got it in post #12. The dog references were to the book "Marley and Me," which is about some guy's Golden Retriever. It sold a lot of copies and was made into a children's book, and the movie is forthcoming.

Last edited by Marley23; 06-19-2008 at 02:03 PM..
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  #41  
Old 06-19-2008, 02:01 PM
JimmyFlair JimmyFlair is offline
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It's this kind of thing that makes me glad that I don't have a middle name. Makes life much easier.
Filling out "official" paperwork is a PITA, though. I've had people practically pick fights with me because the "middle initial" box is left empty. "You HAVE to have a middle name! It's the LAW!". Um, no. On one or two occasions I've discovered that someone's data entry skills have given me the middle initial "X"
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  #42  
Old 06-19-2008, 02:07 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Is it really that much of a pain? I've never liked my middle name and I've been leaving it off of official forms for years.
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  #43  
Old 06-19-2008, 02:18 PM
Skammer Skammer is offline
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I think: you're worrying about your second son's name before your first son is even born?

And my second thought is: you must be related to my wife.
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  #44  
Old 06-19-2008, 02:20 PM
Chronos Chronos is online now
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Middle names are where you go crazy with the bizarre names that honor ancestors or remind you of your favorite comic book, or whatever. Nobody ever knows anyone else's middle name, unless they assassinate a major political figure.

My oldest son's middle name is Doran, after his long-deceased grandfather. I would not have even considered this for a first name, but for a middle name, why not?
I agree. If you want to go wild and crazy with a kid's name, the middle name is the place to do it. That's what middle names are for.
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  #45  
Old 06-19-2008, 02:37 PM
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My friend Elmo Jones, named after his uncle Elmo "Butch" Jones would probably asked you to reconsider.
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  #46  
Old 06-19-2008, 03:26 PM
Larry Mudd Larry Mudd is offline
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I think that's okay, so long as the first or surname isn't "Daniel."
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  #47  
Old 06-20-2008, 12:33 AM
tesseract tesseract is offline
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Thanks so much for all the replies. We are very happy with Marley, so I wasn't asking for opinions on that, but I appreciate all feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23
At long last, an issue where I unquestionably know better than everyone else on the Dope! Of course, it's a tangent...

Godfroy first: it's hard for a middle name to be really terrible unless you force the kid to use it. But I do think you have to accept the truth here: it's awkward, especially on a little kid (he won't be able to pronounce it for a while); it will always be pronounced American style by everyone else ; and people are going to think it's pretentious. That's not your fault, it's no more pretentious than Smith or any other family name, but it's French and I am sure that's what people will think. If you don't care, it's not a big deal. You're putting more thought into it than anyone else ever will.
He is going to speak French and English from birth so hopefully it won't be too long until he can pronounce it (his father, who is African, speaks a lot of languages, including French, so he speaks to my womb in various languages :-) ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23
As for the Marley issue: I have always enjoyed my name and taken a lot of pride in it, and I consider it something to live up to. (I'm named after Bob Marley.) It's a very rare name among guys, which I've always liked - frankly I'd be the only one, were it up to me. Sometimes people mishear my name just because they don't expect to hear it, and yes, sometimes I get junk mail addressed to "Ms." It gets torn up with prejudice, but it's a minor annoyance. Avoiding the name for those reasons would be stupid in my opinion.
Yay! Thanks for the Marley input. He will indeed be named after Bob Marley. The other reason is we really like the name. It doesn't bother us in the least that girls can also be named Marley. And the dog thing -- what is that, a movie? I've never even heard of it and I'm sure, as you say, it will go the way of all the earth long before the legacy of Bob.

I'm especially glad that people think, as I do, that the middle name is not all that important, in the sense that though you may ruin your kid's life somehow, it won't be through his middle name.
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  #48  
Old 06-20-2008, 12:48 AM
tesseract tesseract is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skammer
I think: you're worrying about your second son's name before your first son is even born?

And my second thought is: you must be related to my wife.
Well, it IS possible that we will name the FIRST one Marley, so it could be relevant soon. And for the record, my husband is equally interested in this issue.

Oh, and about the Dickens thing, that was the first thing my mother mentioned, too, but that doesn't bother us either.
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  #49  
Old 06-20-2008, 12:58 AM
astro astro is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract
And the dog thing -- what is that, a movie? I've never even heard of it and I'm sure, as you say, it will go the way of all the earth long before the legacy of Bob.
Marley & Me
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  #50  
Old 06-20-2008, 01:39 AM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Two data points from my nuclear family, both of which suggest that you can give a middle name of "throatwarblermangrove" if you like and no one will care:

1) My son. He has my last name, so his middle name is his father's last name, which is a somewhat hard-to-spell-and-pronounce, not terribly euphonious word. This has caused zero trouble in the past 10 years.

2) Me! I don't have a middle name, just an initial - like Harry S Truman. This has been a very, very minor problem about twice in the last 49 years, when some petty bureaucrat wouldn't accept an "S" and insisted on me "spelling out" my middle name.

I finally started using my mother's maiden name as a middle name because it is incredibly unusual (also hard to spell and pronounce) in order to distinguish myself from the hundreds of thousands of other people with my first and last name (which is along the lines of "David Brown" or "Mary White"). Again - no problems.
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