Doctor Who 4x12 The Stolen Earth

[Pushkin]

Coming up in half an hour, review thread open as I've belatedly realised our American cousins will be seeing this just a fortnight behind us.

Exciting or heralding the return of all sorts of characters you never wanted to see again

[Ximenean]

Why start a review thread before the programme has been shown?

[MJinks]

I thought it was a little 'meh' to be honest. There were just too many characters and not enough time. The whole 'The Bees are disappearing' thread was disappointingly resolved.

Next week should be better.

I was convinced that Rose was going to die during their extended, slow-motion greeting. I was a little surprised. Not sure what's going to happen there. I'm sure we would have found out if there was going to be a major change in the cast though...

If they can solve this without another Deus Ex Machina or a reset switch then I'll be impressed and pleased.

[Quartz]

An awful lot of build-up, but where is K9?

[Walker in Eternity]

I enjoyed it (except for the overuse of the Daleks),

I was particularly surprised about:

SPOILER:

the Doctor being "exterminated" and needing to regenerate. They managed to keep that pretty quiet. I was looking for spoilers prior to the episode and didn't find anthing to suggest that Tennant might be leaving, quite a shock

I agree that there were too many characters, but the way things ended up there will probably be a lot less to worry about in the next episode.

Don't want to wait a week, but have no choice.

I thought the resurrected Davros was very well done, although the whole "Dalek Caan travelled though time" bit was a little naff. If the Daleks can do it, then the Doctor should be able to rescue the whole of Gallifrey, particularly as Time Lord tech is supposedly much better than Dalek.

I shall look forward to the next episode.

[Pushkin]

Originally Posted by Usram

Why start a review thread before the programme has been shown?

I don't know but, here we are, the programme has been broadcast and the thread is still here! So, I guess we may as well share our thoughts

Originally Posted by Stryfe

I was particularly surprised about:

SPOILER:

the Doctor being "exterminated" and needing to regenerate. They managed to keep that pretty quiet. I was looking for spoilers prior to the episode and didn't find anthing to suggest that Tennant might be leaving, quite a shock

I was as taken aback as I was when I mistakenly thought James May was leaving Top Gear.

A subtle twist too when we're told the Doctor's most faithful companion would be the one dying, it sort of throws the choice out there a little.

Originally Posted by Stryfe

I thought the resurrected Davros was very well done, although the whole "Dalek Caan travelled though time" bit was a little naff. If the Daleks can do it, then the Doctor should be able to rescue the whole of Gallifrey, particularly as Time Lord tech is supposedly much better than Dalek

I thought it was funny that the Time War is locked, made it sound like a forum that only hard core Whovians could log into But apart from all that the return of Davros was well done, especially the wonderfully logical way in which he grows more Kaleds for the Dalek shells.

The humour in the episode was nice too, Donna's grandad not getting a webcam because they're naughty and even the Dalek's know that the late Harriet Jones was ex-PM

[Galwegian]

Do we really need to use spoiler boxes about

SPOILER:

the unexpected regeneration?

The episode has already been aired, and to me it was the most unexpected and interesting part.

Oh, and I don't believe for a moment that

SPOILER:

Harriet Jones is dead.

In fact, I suspect that

SPOILER:

she will win by a landslide again in the next general election

[Pushkin]

Originally Posted by Galwegian

Do we really need to use spoiler boxes about

SPOILER:

the unexpected regeneration?

The episode has already been aired, and to me it was the most unexpected and interesting part

I suppose spoilers are unnecessary, makes me wonder if its worth spoilering because of River Song's line in "Forest of the Dead" about recognising the Doctor from when he was older. Did she know about regenerations or did the Doctor live a long time in this generation?

[Szlater]

Originally Posted by Quartz

but where is K9?

Repairing the blackhole created by the LHC at CERN. I'm serious.

You'd know that if you'd seen The Sarah Jane Adventures on CBBC.

[Galwegian]

Originally Posted by Pushkin

Did she know about regenerations or did the Doctor live a long time in this generation?

River seemed to come from a looonnnngggg way off in his future, and I took it that her doctor was a different incarnation. She was shocked at how young he was, aged only 900-odds.

Well, if we're talking about it openly, there's no way we're going to see a full regeneration. For one thing, Doctor Who is being shown as a series of specials next year rather than as a full-blown season specifically because David Tennant is working on some other projects.

The Dalek hit him only partially, as we only caught a glimpse of one side of his skeleton, rather than the usual full X-ray effect and vaporisation. There was also a gratuitous shot of his previously severed hand right beside the Tardis console at the opening of the episode. What are the odds that it'll be used to somehow save his life during the regeneration process?

And I like Harriet Jones. I just don't want her to be dead. I'd vote for her!

[Peter Morris]

Originally Posted by Galwegian

Do we really need to use spoiler boxes about

SPOILER:

the unexpected regeneration?

The episode has already been aired, and to me it was the most unexpected and interesting part.

Yes, because it hasn't been shown around the world yet. There may even be British dopers that have recorded it for later viewing, who would get upset if you give it away.

So, lets keep major plot twists spoilered for the moment.


Any speculation about Martha's Osterhagen key? what do you think that means? Do you think it significant that it's an anagram of Earth's Gone.

[Szlater]

Originally Posted by Peter Morris

Do you think it significant that it's an anagram of Earth's Gone.

Yes, probably. Mister Saxon was an anagram of Master No. Six, so I wouldn't put it past RTD.

Potential spoiler for the next episode:

SPOILER:

Apparently Peter Davison and Sylvester McCoy have been seen in their respective Doctor costumes on the Who set, so may show up in the next episode

[Peter Morris]

Originally Posted by Szlater

SPOILER:

Apparently Peter Davison and Sylvester McCoy have been seen in their respective Doctor costumes on the Who set, so may show up in the next episode

SPOILER:

Dalek Caan called him the threefold man. I was thinking that he might regenerate into his former self, owing to the time effect, then back again. I thought that it might be Christopher Ecclestone, though.

Peter Davison's being seen might have been from the Children In Need mini-episode

[Walker in Eternity]

A bit of idle speculation here, but the woman at the Shadow Proclamation suggested that Donna still has "something on her back". I expect that RTD will do another of his changing time so it never really happened tricks.

[Pushkin]

Originally Posted by Peter Morris

Yes, because it hasn't been shown around the world yet. There may even be British dopers that have recorded it for later viewing, who would get upset if you give it away

That was the whole reason for me starting the thread early, so nobody would get an accidental preview. I was chastised on another forum for revealing something big a bit too early thinking Americans were simply using torrents or Youtube to see the episodes, not realising you get it on Sci Fi. On the other hand, what else can you expect from a review thread save spoilers?

Originally Posted by Peter Morris

Any speculation about Martha's Osterhagen key? what do you think that means? Do you think it significant that it's an anagram of Earth's Gone.

Probably, there's been a lack of such coincidences on the show this season compared to previous ones, we should expect something like this I guess.

[Pushkin]

Originally Posted by Stryfe

A bit of idle speculation here, but the woman at the Shadow Proclamation suggested that Donna still has "something on her back". I expect that RTD will do another of his changing time so it never really happened tricks.

Did she say "has" or "had" something on her back?

[GuanoLad]

She said "There was something on your back."

[Half Man Half Wit]

I had a feeling the episode was a bit bogged down by trotting out the whole Whoverse Who's Who, and I had a strange Captain Planet flashback when they combined their powers to call the Doctor. Seemed a bit obvious that Davies was going for the 'OMG look! It's Torchwood/Unit/Sarah Jane/Davros'-factor, but I can't say it didn't work to some degree.
Still, despite feeling a little crammed, I thought it was an enjoyable episode, and it certainly has me excited for next week. I just hope there'll be no 'now everybody think of the Doctor!'-kind of resolution, or some 'it never really happened' deus ex machina.

[GuanoLad]

So we have the "Mr Copper Foundation", the "Osterhagen Key", two different kinds of teleportation device, the hyperactive hand in the TARDIS, the fact that the Doctor was only hit on one side, i.e. only one heart was affected, and that Donna seems to have some kind of terminal destiny. Torchwood, Sarah Jane Smith, Martha Jones and UNIT, and Rose Tyler (and all her friends and family back in her dimension maybe?) .

Davros is using his own genetic code to create his Daleks. Dalek Caan is going mad, and says such things as: "He is coming, the three-fold-man. He dances in the lonely places," and "Everlasting death for the most faithful companion."

There is probably a clue in there somewhere.

(Harriet Jones, Ianto Jones, Martha Jones, John Smith, Sarah Jane Smith, Mr Smith? What's up with that?)

[Szlater]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

So we have the "Mr Copper Foundation",

Wasn't "Mr Copper" the tour guide from "The Voyage of the Damned"? The chap The Doctor gave the unlimited credit card to?

[GuanoLad]

Ah! So he was! Okay, that's that one solved, and his company is therefore to be trusted.

[Annie]

I'm getting some very pretty screencaps from this ep. Now, time to watch for content!

But I do believe the pickled Doctor hand is the 'gun in the first act'.

[Illuminatiprimus]

I'm sorry but this episode was a huge pile of shit, it was Who with its Ritalin taken away from it. I got seriously fucked off when Tennant did his trademark talking excitedly to the point where I couldn't actually understand him, that really doesn't help move the story along.

As I said in the previous thread this was a serious Nu-Who reunion and that in itself does not a good episode make. And for the love of GOD Russell, enough with the "But you can't use the wibble wobble woo woo, it's far too dangerous!" with people looking shocked and terrified, it's such a crap way to create tension. As for the whole slo-mo run, I was actually counting out loud for how long it would take for a Dalek to show up and shoot one of them (although I guessed it would be Rose who bought it). Mega contrived.

Gah, I'm seriously not impressed. I admit I was taken aback by the regeneration which made me immediately think "Wow, they kept THAT quiet". Guess we'll see what happens next week (the resolution had better be improved on this week).

[Pushkin]

Originally Posted by Illuminatiprimus

Gah, I'm seriously not impressed. I admit I was taken aback by the regeneration which made me immediately think "Wow, they kept THAT quiet". Guess we'll see what happens next week (the resolution had better be improved on this week).

As opposed to Star Trek stories, Who second parters always seem to come off a lot better.

[Walker in Eternity]

True, but the end of series two parters always suffer from the RTD deus ex machina syndrome.

Let's hope he resists the urge to do another Bad Wolf, Paradox Machine type thing this time. It is very similar to Star Trek, i.e paint yourself into a corner and then have to come up with a technobabble solution to save the day.

I would be interested to see the reaction of the world post Dalek invasion rather than settling back to a world similar to ours so that they can tie Torchwood into events happening here. Maybe the reaction of the human race would prove Harriet Jones right.

I hope the appearances of the other Doctors doe go ahead, I've always been quite partial to the anniversary episaodes with mulitple Doctors.

[Pushkin]

I picked up The Five Doctors not too long ago (as much to see the awesome Raston Warrior Robot as anything else), some of the Doctors play well against each other, but if you want to see a bit of that, the short special Time Crash does it quite well in much less time.

[Walker in Eternity]

Originally Posted by Pushkin

I picked up The Five Doctors not too long ago (as much to see the awesome Raston Warrior Robot as anything else), some of the Doctors play well against each other, but if you want to see a bit of that, the short special Time Crash does it quite well in much less time.

I've got the Five Doctors, but thanks for the link to Time Crash, I missed it when it was on tv.

[Sri Theo]

Was anyone else pretty disappointed with the Shadow Proclamation. Compared to how reverently they've been spoken off before they seemed rubbish.

Hopefully they/it will get to show off a bit more in the next part.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by Sri Theo

Was anyone else pretty disappointed with the Shadow Proclamation. Compared to how reverently they've been spoken off before they seemed rubbish.

Hopefully they/it will get to show off a bit more in the next part.

Besides various mentions (that seemed to involve treaties), do we know anything about them/it? Is it strictly a Nu-Who thing, or was is there before?

-Joe

[Pushkin]

I can't recall anything before about them, I was a bit disappointed to see it was merely the Judoon again.

Questions though, why did the Doctor have to speak in an alien tongue with the Tardis so close by? And why was the Shadow Proclamation so ignorant about the Time Lords, even the Sontarans have heard of them and the Time War, which was supposed to only pass over the heads of lesser races.

[ArizonaTeach]

Originally Posted by Pushkin

Questions though, why did the Doctor have to speak in an alien tongue with the Tardis so close by? And why was the Shadow Proclamation so ignorant about the Time Lords, even the Sontarans have heard of them and the Time War, which was supposed to only pass over the heads of lesser races.

Well, while I agree that the Shadow Procamation should be better informed, the Sontarans have actually successfully invaded Gallifrey before, so they certainly knew of the Time Lords.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by ArizonaTeach

Well, while I agree that the Shadow Procamation should be better informed, the Sontarans have actually successfully invaded Gallifrey before, so they certainly knew of the Time Lords.

That, and they personally knew The Doctor, considering him a huge threat and killing him to be a huge victory.

The Shadow Proclamation? Who knows?

-Joe

[Half Man Half Wit]

Originally Posted by Pushkin

Questions though, why did the Doctor have to speak in an alien tongue with the Tardis so close by?

I thought maybe it was just the code word, not actually a piece of language...

[GuanoLad]

Originally Posted by Merijeek

The Shadow Proclamation? Who knows?

I bet they know what evil lurks in the hearts of men.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

I bet they know what evil lurks in the hearts of men.

Nah, if they knew, they'd proclaim it. Then everyone would know.

-Joe, considered shoe-horning in a "500 miles" joke, decided against it

[Pushkin]

Originally Posted by ArizonaTeach

Well, while I agree that the Shadow Procamation should be better informed, the Sontarans have actually successfully invaded Gallifrey before, so they certainly knew of the Time Lords.

I haven't seen that story yet, but IIRC they were backed by another higher race. Even so, they're aware of the Time War somehow. The Shadow Proclaimation should have been all over it given that the lesser races were winked out of existence at the drop of a hat.

[Walker in Eternity]

Originally Posted by Sri Theo

Was anyone else pretty disappointed with the Shadow Proclamation. Compared to how reverently they've been spoken off before they seemed rubbish.

Hopefully they/it will get to show off a bit more in the next part.

Yes, they were built up to be so much more and then it turns out we had already seen them in Series 3.

Great dissappointment and completely ineffectual.

[Walker in Eternity]

Originally Posted by Pushkin

I haven't seen that story yet, but IIRC they were backed by another higher race. Even so, they're aware of the Time War somehow. The Shadow Proclaimation should have been all over it given that the lesser races were winked out of existence at the drop of a hat.

The story is the Invasion of Time, available as part of the Bred for War dvd collection. Not one of the best stories, a bit slow and not much going on as I remember. With the exception of the Time Warrior I've always found the Sontarans a bit overrated.

The high points were the TARDIS swimming pool and giant carnivorous plant.

The Sontarans did not have the backing of a higher race. They were the higher race backing another group of aliens (the Vardans I think) who could travel along radio frequencies or something. Not watched it for a while, not in a rush to watch it again.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by Stryfe

Yes, they were built up to be so much more and then it turns out we had already seen them in Series 3.

Great dissappointment and completely ineffectual.

Is there a reason to believe that the Jadoon were "The Shadow Proclamation" and not just convenient hired muscle they use as guards?

-Joe

[Walker in Eternity]

No, I suspct that the Judoon are only the hired help, but the woman in charge appeared to be a normal human (oid).

Space Police might be a more apt description. Shadow Proclamation has all kinds of dark undertones that just weren't reflected in the programme.

I originally thought that the Shadow Proclamation was a treaty signed up to by the time active powers of the DW universe, but it appears not.

[GuanoLad]

As a behind-the-scenes anecdote, gathered from the commentary on the episode, the Judoon were meant to be sharing the Shadow Proclamation buildings with other creatures, the intention meaning to show that the galactic police are made up of multiple races. But they ran out of money and time to achieve that.

I suspect the Shadow Proclamation will return as a constant bugbear on the Doctor's tail, especially now he's defied their orders.

[What Exit?]

This one aired last night in the US. I really enjoyed the hell out of it, especially the running joke with Harriet Jones, former Prime Minister. The best laugh was when even the Dalek improbably said, "Yes, we know who you are."

The running in slow motion scene was over-played of course and obvious, but it got my 8 year old son, which made me forgive Russell T. Davies is self-indulgence.

I guess I am pre-spoilered for next week.

SPOILER:

I know he won't actually regenerate as I know Tenant is likely to return for more shows.

I was not expecting

SPOILER:

Daleks or Davros.

The Richard Dawkins appearance was an unexpected piece of comedy.

Jim

[Baron Greenback]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

The Richard Dawkins appearance was an unexpected piece of comedy.

Jim

Dawkins had to make an appearance at some point, being married to Lalla Ward, and having being introduced to her by Douglas Adams.

[Agnostic Pagan]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

The running in slow motion scene was over-played of course and obvious...

I was hoping they were going to have some fun with it and have Jack suddenly teleport in between them just as they were about to hug. You know Jack would have loved that. As it was, it became the weakest part of the episode, especially with Jack appearing and shooting the Dalek without a single moment's hesitation to even judge the situation. Mighty fortunate he appeared facing exactly the right direction...

[Lumpy]

One of the things I love about the new series is that they finally "outed" all the alien activity on Earth, and we can now see how people react. A cantankerous old man can now shout "It's them aliens again! I'd bet my pension on it!" -and be right.

[Baron Greenback]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

One of the things I love about the new series is that they finally "outed" all the alien activity on Earth, and we can now see how people react. A cantankerous old man can now shout "It's them aliens again! I'd bet my pension on it!" -and be right.

Cribbins, FTW.