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  #1  
Old 07-10-2008, 12:42 AM
happywaffle happywaffle is offline
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Explain the end of "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" to me.

I showed the wife CTHD the other night, though I didn't enjoy it as much as when it first came out. I just can't dig the pacing of it, and there were a few other narrative quirks that are probably completely standard for Chinese cinephiles.

But I'm not here to rant, I'm here to ask about the ending. (Spoilers, obviously!)

After Li Mu Bai is killed, Shu Lien spares Jen and sends her to visit Lo at Wudan Mountain. They happily reunite, make love, etc. Then, the next morning, Lo finds Jen standing on the bridge over a big gorge. She reminds him of the legend of a young boy who jumped from the mountain to gain his wish, and flew away, knowing that the wish was granted. Then she asks him to make a wish; he does, and wishes for them to be together in the desert. Then she jumps off the bridge and flies away, and he looks sad. Roll credits.

What the heck happened there? By jumping off the bridge, it's implied that she's granting his wish. But by flying away forever, they're obviously not going to be together in the desert; his sad face seems to confirm this. Was she saying 'make a wish' and then mocking him by soaring off without him? Shouldn't they both have jumped or something?

Oh, and would someone care to explain the movie's title to me? It's symbolic of course, I'm just wondering who's the tiger, and who's the dragon.

Thanks--
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  #2  
Old 07-10-2008, 12:57 AM
squeegee squeegee is offline
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I took it as Jen finding peace at last, after being on the knife's edge of Jade Fox's plans for much of her life. I thought Lo looked wistful, not sad, perhaps uncertain about Jen's feelings for him. I didn't think Jen had committed suicide (hell, she could probably jump over a mountain range at that point). But ultimately it seemed Jen had granted Lo his wish and they would be together.

Having said that, I did entertain a thought of throwing a brick at the screen because of this ending; it was frustratingly ambiguous.
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  #3  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:06 AM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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I dozed off and missed the middle 20 minutes or so, I mention just for the heck of it. It doesn't appear to have made any difference.
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  #4  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:18 AM
Koxinga Koxinga is offline
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I'm pretty sure she committed suicide. Remember that at the beginning of the movie, Chow Yun-fat's character had a premonition of the ending scene, something about flying through clouds and being surrounded by infinite sadness.
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  #5  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:20 AM
happywaffle happywaffle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koxinga
I'm pretty sure she committed suicide. Remember that at the beginning of the movie, Chow Yun-fat's character had a premonition of the ending scene, something about flying through clouds and being surrounded by infinite sadness.
Well, except that contradicts Lo's legend, which references the end scene much more explicitly and refers to flying away unharmed after jumping. If she was committing suicide, I'd expect more, ya know, downward motion.
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  #6  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:29 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
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Hmm. I've never had a conversation about that movie which didn't presuppose that the final scene depicted her suicide.

Now I have to go watch it again. It shows her flying away?

-FrL-
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  #7  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:31 AM
happywaffle happywaffle is offline
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Yep! I think you left too early. The last shot of the movie is a nice, slow shot of her drifting comfortably through the clouds with a happy look on her face. And when she leaps from the bridge there's definitely a sideways flying motion to how she leaves the bridge.
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  #8  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:33 AM
happywaffle happywaffle is offline
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Update! Now with video goodness!!

Last edited by happywaffle; 07-10-2008 at 01:34 AM..
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  #9  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:35 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
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Just watched it on Youtube. I have absolutely no recollection of her having sort of floated down rather than simply jumping, but there it is. She floats.

Huh. I've seen this movie three times and never noticed that. I always thought she just jumped, and I never quite understood why, but figured it was a case of her feeling she didn't deserve a happy ending. Stupid overly melodramatic movie character behavior.

Anyway, wikipedia says that the next book in the cycle depicts the two after this event as a couple with a son, so I guess in the books she survives. But I think the movie is supposed to be ambiguous.

-FrL-
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  #10  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:47 AM
Koxinga Koxinga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happywaffle
Well, except that contradicts Lo's legend, which references the end scene much more explicitly and refers to flying away unharmed after jumping.
I interpret it as irony.

It reminds me of in Forrest Gump, when he and Jenny are sharing a moment together and she asks him if he remembers how when they were little they'd hide together and pray that she could become a little bird and fly away? You think I'd fly if I jumped off this bridge, Forrest?
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  #11  
Old 07-10-2008, 02:00 AM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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Maybe her spirit flies away - her body is crunched at the bottom of the cliff.
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  #12  
Old 07-10-2008, 02:38 AM
Koxinga Koxinga is offline
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Watched the youtube clip and in the very last shot of her, she's clearly plummeting. Maybe with a look of release on her face. But release is a far cry from living happily ever after--in her case just the opposite, I suspect.

How else could she relieve herself of the burden of having caused the death of one of her would-be mentors, and destroying the happiness of the other? In light of that, I think the last exchange she has with her lover just illustrates how worthless her former dreams have become. She could never enjoy it because she knows she doesn't deserve it.

And anyway, where do people get the idea that any of these people could fly?
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  #13  
Old 07-10-2008, 04:04 AM
happywaffle happywaffle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koxinga
And anyway, where do people get the idea that any of these people could fly?
Um... I'm guessing sarcasm?
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  #14  
Old 07-10-2008, 04:11 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happywaffle
Um... I'm guessing sarcasm?
No, I think he's saying they can make suprising jumps, but can't just fly away to wherever they wish to go. That sounds right to me, but my memory of the film is pretty hazy.

-FrL-
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  #15  
Old 07-10-2008, 04:15 AM
happywaffle happywaffle is offline
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Ah yes, they can SORT OF break the laws of physics. In my book, if you can balance on a 1-cm tree branch or hop across a pond, flying is not out of the question.
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  #16  
Old 07-10-2008, 04:28 AM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frylock
No, I think he's saying they can make suprising jumps, but can't just fly away to wherever they wish to go. That sounds right to me, but my memory of the film is pretty hazy.
The cartoon physics got increasingly outlandish, though. It was kinda like early issues of Superman where he starts out being able to jump an eighth of a mile, and a few years later is flying through time at superlight speed. By the end of that movie, I'd've been surprised if the characters weren't flying.
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  #17  
Old 07-10-2008, 04:43 AM
Illuminatiprimus Illuminatiprimus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happywaffle
Ah yes, they can SORT OF break the laws of physics. In my book, if you can balance on a 1-cm tree branch or hop across a pond, flying is not out of the question.
Not to mention go from standing on the ground floor of a building, jump up and spin around about 1200 degrees and then land on the balcony of the floor above you.
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  #18  
Old 07-10-2008, 05:21 AM
Crowbar of Irony +3 Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
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Personally, I think it is because "No happy movies ever win an Oscar" muse.

I interpret it as Jen actually liked Mubai and she had enough of the world as it is.

Though the skeptical side of me thinks the director just wants the movie to have an 'arty' type of ending.

Last edited by Crowbar of Irony +3; 07-10-2008 at 05:22 AM..
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  #19  
Old 07-10-2008, 05:50 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is online now
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That's not flying - that's falling, with style.
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  #20  
Old 07-10-2008, 06:20 AM
Colophon Colophon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koxinga
And anyway, where do people get the idea that any of these people could fly?
Er, maybe because they kept on flying all over the place, all the time?

By coincidence, I watched CTHD for the first time at the weekend. I hadn't heard much of the plot, but the one thing I constantly heard was that it was beautifully shot. Well WTF? The ridiculous fight scenes where people would be obviously yanked by harnesses, be skipping over rooftops with their feet "running in the air" not even trying to make it look like they were actually leaping rather being dragged around, totally killed the movie for me. I remember during the first fight scene, which started off reasonably realistic, then one of the combatants suddenlt levitated and zoomed horizontally for a hundred feet or so. My girlfriend and I just looked at each other and rolled our eyes. This was clearly going to suck.

I mean, the main characters were able to leap and fly at least 50 feet into the air, not to mention stand sideways on the walls of buildings, etc. So were these people meant to have supernatural powers or something? Or just be so skilled in the way of Wudan that they appeared to?

BTW, I certainly interpreted the final scene to show Jen flying rather than commiting suicide. She seemed to me to be soaring horizontally along the valley at the end. But then by that point I didn't really care - it wouldn't have surprised me if she'd done a loop-the-loop with red smoke coming out of her arse.


BTW - according to Wikipedia:
Quote:
Although the movie does not reveal whether Jen dies, the next novel in the Crane Iron Pentalogy, Iron Knight, Silver Vase, begins with Jen and Lo as a couple who have one son.

Last edited by Colophon; 07-10-2008 at 06:25 AM..
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  #21  
Old 07-10-2008, 06:32 AM
ivan astikov ivan astikov is offline
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I agree with Mangetout. She is flying - although very gracefully, I must add - downwards to her death!
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  #22  
Old 07-10-2008, 06:34 AM
ivan astikov ivan astikov is offline
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Damn you Colophon!!! NOW you tell me!
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  #23  
Old 07-10-2008, 07:55 AM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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There's a sequel? When is Ang Lee going to make it???
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  #24  
Old 07-10-2008, 09:12 AM
Reno Nevada Reno Nevada is offline
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Originally Posted by ivylass
There's a sequel? When is Ang Lee going to make it???
There are 5 books in the series, of which Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is number 3, so there are two written sequels. I don't think the series has been translated into English, and I think that the movie is a fairly loose interpretation. I have never heard that Ang Lee was interested in making a sequel.
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  #25  
Old 07-10-2008, 09:42 AM
kelly5078 kelly5078 is offline
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I assume she's flying, since a suicide would presumably look anguished, which she certainly does not. The only way a suicide would have such a serene look on her face would be if she was somehow unbalanced, but there's no evidence of that in the movie (beyond her being a messed up teenager, of course).

That said, there's certainly a element of ambiguity to the scene, or we wouldn't be here, would we? The problem, I think, is with why she jumped, rather than with how she landed. It's clearly a matter of her leaving her old self behind, but people can do that with both feet on the ground. So I have to conclude that Lee did it because he was feeling arty, and because it looked really cool.
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  #26  
Old 07-10-2008, 09:48 AM
cormac262 cormac262 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koxinga
Watched the youtube clip and in the very last shot of her, she's clearly plummeting. Maybe with a look of release on her face. But release is a far cry from living happily ever after--in her case just the opposite, I suspect.

How else could she relieve herself of the burden of having caused the death of one of her would-be mentors, and destroying the happiness of the other? In light of that, I think the last exchange she has with her lover just illustrates how worthless her former dreams have become. She could never enjoy it because she knows she doesn't deserve it.

And anyway, where do people get the idea that any of these people could fly?
This is the interpretation I've always gone with: she finally realizes that she has been the cause of all this pain and death, and decides she is the one who should die - she doesn't deserve to live happily ever after with her love. She definitely commits suicide. And the look of relief is that of finally understanding she is doing the "right thing."
When it comes right down to it, she is a spoiled little brat - always after what suits her without any regard for others that care for her. At the end, she realizes the results of her actions and that she really wasn't worthy.
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  #27  
Old 07-10-2008, 09:53 AM
shy guy shy guy is offline
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The characters in the movie can clearly fly - at least one scene comes to mind in which Li Mu Bai simply gestures toward a certain spot and quickly floats there, without any kind of movement of his legs at all.

I never interpreted the end of the movie as a suicide at all. Watching it again on Youtube, I don't think the suicide thing fits at all.
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  #28  
Old 07-10-2008, 10:17 AM
Baldwin Baldwin is offline
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It's a fantasy of ancient China in which highly-skilled martial artists can fly. Why is there a problem with that?
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  #29  
Old 07-10-2008, 10:22 AM
Pleonast Pleonast is offline
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She wasn't flying. She simply jumped and missed the ground.

I didn't take the scene to indicate she was committing suicide, but that she was otherwise leaving the world behind. I imagined her becoming a hermit on some mountaintop staring at her navel.
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  #30  
Old 07-10-2008, 11:17 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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I always read it as her jumping to commit suicide, and then that last bit, being her flying along, because Lo's love and his wish bouy her up - it's a redemptive image for me. But I'm a Romantic that way.
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  #31  
Old 07-10-2008, 11:31 AM
Anaamika Anaamika is online now
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Ok, hang on. It's a totally different culture. It's a Chinese fairy tale, in which martial artists can fly. And the Zen of flying away forever is an appropriate, and happy ending.

Thinking of it in Western terms does the story injustice. The ultimate goal in Chinese mythology is not necessarily to be happy but for your soul to be at peace. Who cares if you are not with your love in this lifetime? Better to bring your soul to peace, and that is what happens at the end.
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  #32  
Old 07-10-2008, 11:43 AM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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When she jumps she's prepared for either eventuality. Either she'll grant Lo's wish, or she'll die, and either way is fine with her. She's jumping out of her old life as the student of an evil master, and leaving that life is more important than knowing what will happen next.
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  #33  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:36 PM
GargoyleWB GargoyleWB is offline
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Yes, I agree with Lemur866's view.

She shows calmness and serenity because she has leaped off the bridge and committed herself to fate. Whether it is death on the rocks, or soaring into the clouds, she is prepared for either path instead of spending her life flailing against the path of balance and peace--driving all around her into chaos as a result (*insert handwavy Taoist symbolism here *).
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  #34  
Old 07-10-2008, 02:18 PM
Ogre Ogre is offline
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She grew up. Lo's wish of "being together in the desert" as swashbuckling Bandit Royalty is immature, childish, and unrealistic. She learned what caprice and disregard for others' safety and feelings will get you.

So she left.
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  #35  
Old 07-10-2008, 02:53 PM
Mahaloth Mahaloth is online now
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So those were aliens at the end of A.I., right?

Kidding!

Anyway, I have to admit this thread has made me think. Watching that scene again, I definitely do think Crouching Tiger ends ambiguously. I think she's jumping, not knowing what is going to happen. Either way, it seems clear that she is not going to come back to Lo no matter what(look at his reaction).

By the way, I wouldn't rely on the books for information. Michelle Yeoh's character didn't even exist in the books, so they are not too deeply connected.
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  #36  
Old 07-10-2008, 03:01 PM
Miller Miller is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colophon
By coincidence, I watched CTHD for the first time at the weekend. I hadn't heard much of the plot, but the one thing I constantly heard was that it was beautifully shot. Well WTF? The ridiculous fight scenes where people would be obviously yanked by harnesses, be skipping over rooftops with their feet "running in the air" not even trying to make it look like they were actually leaping rather being dragged around, totally killed the movie for me. I remember during the first fight scene, which started off reasonably realistic, then one of the combatants suddenlt levitated and zoomed horizontally for a hundred feet or so. My girlfriend and I just looked at each other and rolled our eyes. This was clearly going to suck.

I mean, the main characters were able to leap and fly at least 50 feet into the air, not to mention stand sideways on the walls of buildings, etc. So were these people meant to have supernatural powers or something? Or just be so skilled in the way of Wudan that they appeared to?
Yeah, I had the same reaction to Superman Returns. He can fly, shoot lasers out of his eyes, and catch airplanes out of the sky? I mean, what the hell? Where's the realism?

Anyway, as for CTHD, my take on the end is that, at the very least, she realized that she couldn't go and live happily ever after in the desert after she'd made it impossible for Chow Yun Fat and Michelle Yeoh to have the same sort of happiness. I don't think she's killing herself, though. Instead, she's going out into the world to try to find some sort of redemption, leaving her and her bandit boyfriend in the same position as Chow Yun and Yeoh were at the beginning. By resolving (in a tragic manner) one impossible relationship, she's created another. This may be my Western filters kicking in, but killing herself seems like a cop-out. It would be in keeping with the personality she's displayed up to that point in the movie, but it would mean that she had not grown or changed at all by the film's conclusion, which I don't find to be an emotionally satisfying intrepretation. Instead, I think she's gone out to walk the Earth. Like Kane, from Kung Fu.
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  #37  
Old 07-10-2008, 03:01 PM
Frylock Frylock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaamika
The ultimate goal in Chinese mythology is not necessarily to be happy but for your soul to be at peace.
A cite or two, please, for:

The claim that in chinese mythology, "the ultimate goal is not necessarily to be happy but for your soul to be at peace."

The implication that in Western mythology, the goal is not for your soul to be at peace but for you to be happy.

-FrL-
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  #38  
Old 07-10-2008, 03:31 PM
ivan astikov ivan astikov is offline
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Miller: It's Caine from Kung Fu. His first name began with a "K" though.
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  #39  
Old 07-10-2008, 03:47 PM
gaffa gaffa is offline
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Don't really have an explanation for the OP, but I wish to add that I didn't really get this film until the third viewing.

The first, I was reading the words and following the story. The second, I was watching the character who was talking.

The third, emotionally devastating time, I was watching the character who was listening. Ang Lee obviously spends considerable effort directing every actor in every scene, and this film is not about what is said but what goes unsaid. The love between Chow Yun Fat's Li Mu Bai and Michelle Yeoh's Yu Shu Lien was most visible as they listened to each other.
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  #40  
Old 07-10-2008, 03:52 PM
Miller Miller is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan astikov
Miller: It's Caine from Kung Fu. His first name began with a "K" though.
No, I was... uh... talking about a different Kung Fu.

Yeah, that's the ticket...
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  #41  
Old 07-14-2008, 11:56 AM
Crowbar of Irony +3 Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colophon
I remember during the first fight scene, which started off reasonably realistic, then one of the combatants suddenlt levitated and zoomed horizontally for a hundred feet or so. My girlfriend and I just looked at each other and rolled our eyes. This was clearly going to suck.
That's the wuxia genre for you. If you want to see realistic fighting, you are better off with Bruce Lee and etc. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is not the only movie to do that - hundreds of Chinese wuxia movies had that - it's just that Crouching Tiger do it more beautifully.

Usually, such feats are pulled off with wire-fu; what was astounding at its time was that there are some fight scenes where wire-fu looks impossible to employ (such as when they were fighting at the top of the forest, for example) - because the 'crane' that holds the wire must be above the actor. That what makes it interesting for us folks grown used to the wuxia genre.
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  #42  
Old 07-14-2008, 12:02 PM
Crowbar of Irony +3 Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frylock
A cite or two, please, for:

The claim that in chinese mythology, "the ultimate goal is not necessarily to be happy but for your soul to be at peace."

The implication that in Western mythology, the goal is not for your soul to be at peace but for you to be happy.

-FrL-
There are numerous schools of religious thoughts in China, Taoism being one of them, and Li Mu Bai is a disciple of Wudang, which is predominantly Taoist. Taoism could be one of those which lead people to believe that Chinese mythology is for the soul to be at peace, but it is much more than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

There are too many schools of religions in China - during the Warring States period, there is a school of thought that is surprisingly Christian-like - Mohist

Kong-Zi or Confucius' thinking dominates the Han dynasty and later, before Tang ( I believe) when Buddhism is introduced - and Buddhism has more of the "be at peace with the soul" muse.

Chinese mythology goes a long way back and is just as varied as other mythologies. I don't think there is a central line of thought there which is so simple.
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  #43  
Old 07-14-2008, 07:00 PM
Iggins Iggins is offline
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I also vote for falling. It looked like she was wearing one of those "glider" suits.
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  #44  
Old 01-16-2013, 12:34 AM
CynocidalConspiricyst CynocidalConspiricyst is offline
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Originally Posted by Koxinga View Post
And anyway, where do people get the idea that any of these people could fly?


I got the idea from the extras reel on my DVD, where Michelle Yeoh describes how much of this narrative, besides being based on the Wang Du Lu book, is an Ang Lee dream based on traditional and ancient legends, myths, and fairy tales they have grown up hearing from their parents at bedtime and passed on to their children.
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  #45  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:46 AM
handsomeharry handsomeharry is offline
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I think that it should be obvious to all that she committed suicide.

1. She, because of her romantic stupid nonsense, got Chow Yun Fat killed, and ruined his gf's life. They had been good people, whom she had come to admire, in spite of her hubris, and she torched their life/love.
2. The 'make a wish' thing, to her boyfriend was a bitter irony. She had been dwelling on how she ruined everything, and had expected a happy ending. Ain't a happenin'. What's the use.
Also, kind of a melodramatic 'farewell, my love', using the story as a connection between them, and an explanation of what she was doing.
3. They showed her floating just as they showed Sean Connery floating in "The Man Who Would Be King". But, make no mistake about it, he was a goner. So was this babe. The floating was also a way to show that she was at peace. Floating, serenely, to a death that would relieve her of her torment for being the cause of such a huge amount of sorrow.

Can't help the next book. Next books don't count, IMHO, e.g. "Hannibal" where we have Lector having killed Benjamin Raspel, (or at least implied/questioned) whereas in the "Silence of the Lambs" he had assured her that he had not.
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  #46  
Old 01-25-2013, 06:32 PM
Grestarian Grestarian is offline
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Originally Posted by happywaffle View Post
...Lo finds Jen standing on the bridge over a big gorge. She reminds him of the legend of a young boy who jumped from the mountain to gain his wish, and flew away, knowing that the wish was granted.
Umm...no, not quite. Jen reminds Lo of the legend he told her in the desert. The legend Lo related was that a man was struggling to provide for his family and, in desperation, went to the top of the highest peak, wished that his family would turn out okay, and jumped, 'knowing' that his wish would be granted and his family would be okay. I was watching this the other day and I don't think anything was mentioned on whether the man lived or died or even if his family actually turned out to be okay.* In fact, I kinda got the sense that the end-result was beside the point; the point was that the man made a 'leap of faith' from the nearest local peak and that the legend is remembered because of the man's extreme faith that, because of his faith, the deities of the land would take care of things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by happywaffle View Post
What the heck happened there? By jumping off the bridge, it's implied that she's granting his wish. But by flying away forever, they're obviously not going to be together in the desert; his sad face seems to confirm this. Was she saying 'make a wish' and then mocking him by soaring off without him? Shouldn't they both have jumped or something?
By jumping off the bridge, it's implied that Jen is taking the same 'leap of faith' taken by the man in Lo's retold legend. She does seem to fly away (rather than plummet) and the camera view seems to pan across the canyonscape along with her. But we don't know if that's forever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by happywaffle View Post
Oh, and would someone care to explain the movie's title to me? It's symbolic of course, I'm just wondering who's the tiger, and who's the dragon.
Nobody and nobody.

Remember that there's a little back-story that various characters refer to about a secret manual of techniques that Jade Fox stole from Li Mu Bai's brother? During that theft, the brother was killed; that's the seeds of Li's vengeance. It's also the starting point of the relationship between Li Mu Bai and Shu Lien.

What's in the manual? Names and descriptions and possibly how-to instructions for the techniques promulgated via Li Mu Bai's brother's school. It may not be every single thing taught (after all, "Step Forward" is the same in a thousand different schools) but at the very least it contains the key techniques which make (made?) that school distinct from (superior to?) other schools. That means Jade Fox's theft of the manual was akin to Rupert Murdoch stealing the Coca Cola formula -- not only is it no longer under the originator's control, but unauthorized people might learn it. In fact, at least two unauthorized people did learn from it: The manual is what Jen used to self-train herself to such a high level of competence that Li Mu Bai recognized signature techniques in the middle of combat. The manual is also

It should be no surprise that the manual is written in Chinese. But (amongst other criticisms of the language) Chinese is neither direct nor logical in its conveyance of ideas. Actually, it draws considerable praise for being beautifully poetic and picturesque. So, [as I borrow from Tai Chi, here] a move like "Grab your opponent's right arm, twist while pulling it toward you, and simultaneously chop at your opponent's neck" will be written as "High Pat on Horse" and that phrase may or may not make much sense depending on context as well as whether-or-not how-to instructions were included with the names and sequences. This is an important matter for the unfolding story because Jen is a ranking bureaucrat's daughter (able to read) while her handmaid/nanny [The Jade Fox in civilian disguise] is a servant for whom literacy was not needed. Jade Fox stole the manual but needed someone literate to read it for her; Jen read and translated the words, but intentionally left things out or taught incorrect techniques so she could (eventually) surpass her servant's skills.

So "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" refers to a sequence of techniques, most likely in a training pattern (Kata, Waza, etc.). However, we're not privy to the context of the phrase so we don't get to know if that's a real phrase, a fake phrase Jen made up to deceive her servant, or a real phrase that Jen read but then taught incorrectly to her servant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Koxinga View Post
And anyway, where do people get the idea that any of these people could fly?
A) It's quite common among many martial arts for the practitioners to feel especially light/buoyant/energized (particularly in the legs and feet) during or after training sessions and/or fight sessions. In this regard, part of the training of martial artists is similar to that of gymnasts in that they are trained to time their movements in order squeeze out as much height or distance or simple 'hang time' from jumps, leaps, and other techniques.
B) It's quite common among many observers to perceive practitioners as floating or flying when the practitioners are particularly skilled and execute their techniques well. This illusion occurs basically because the practitioner doesn't appear to be 'falling back to earth' at the same rate that the average person would when jumping or leaping.
c) Martial Arts Movie-Makers have been over-dramatizing the "Wow he can really jump!" factor in their product probably ever since the first feat was filmed.

---G!
*NOTHING in the legend should be connected in any way to the science fiction short story (or movie) "Button Button"

If I Could Touch the Sky
I Would Just Float on By...
.....--Axl Rose (Guns N Roses)
.....Bad Apples
.....Use Your Illusion I
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  #47  
Old 01-27-2013, 01:53 PM
foolsguinea foolsguinea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangetout View Post
That's not flying - that's falling, with style.
We never see her land, so it's reasonable to say she's falling with enough style to miss the ground. Per Douglas Adams, that is flying.
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  #48  
Old 01-27-2013, 03:56 PM
Rollo Tomasi Rollo Tomasi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivylass View Post
There's a sequel? When is Ang Lee going to make it???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno Nevada View Post
There are 5 books in the series, of which Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is number 3, so there are two written sequels. I don't think the series has been translated into English, and I think that the movie is a fairly loose interpretation. I have never heard that Ang Lee was interested in making a sequel.
What perfect timing . . .

The sequel starts filming in May. It doesn't appear that any of the stars are confirmed (yet) to appear, but Ang Lee won't be directing. Adjust your excitement according.
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  #49  
Old 01-28-2013, 12:48 PM
Grestarian Grestarian is offline
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I stand corrected...

[/Quote Grestarian]: Originally Posted by happywaffle http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...s/viewpost.gif
Oh, and would someone care to explain the movie's title to me? It's symbolic of course, I'm just wondering who's the tiger, and who's the dragon.

Nobody and nobody. [/quote]

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...n-may-20130124
[/spoiler]
But the biggest tragedy is the tiger (Lo) perishes in the icy mountain and the dragon (Jen) gets lost in the desert.[/spoiler]

--G!
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  #50  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:21 AM
Choo Choo is offline
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Mubai is the crouching tiger because he is showing restraint.
Jen is hidden dragon because she has a lot of talent and power but hasn't realized it.

She died at the end, of course. They won't actually be at the desert. The time when they were at the desert will just be the time they hope for as she falls to her death.
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