Career outcomes of West Point grads

[KarlGauss]

What percentage of West Point graduates become generals? And, what percent will eventually get the coveted fourth star?

Any ideas?

Thanks!

[bump]

Considering that at the moment, the number of general officers is limited by law to something like 305, the odds aren't good.

West Point graduates about 1000 per year, give or take. This year it was 972.

[adirondack_mike]

A quick look through wiki's list of 4-star generals shows that 4 of 14 Army slots are West Point graduates. That includes pending appointments and joint commands.

I thought it would be higher.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

My Grandfather, my Dad and both my uncles were all West Point grads. Only my Dad achieved stars, as he retired a major general (two stars).

It is extremely difficult to become a general officer, there's a lot of politicking going on with the promotion boards at that level, and generally, the "majority rules", so you see more infantry, armor and artillery promotions than anything else.

Dad was an Engineer and got passed over a couple times for this very reason before he finally made it...they just couldn't ignore his credentials anymore.

I'd say without knowing that probably only about 5% make general officer, if that. Heck, I bet the percentage that actually achieves 20 year retirement status at whatever rank they are by then (usually Lt Col or Col) is well under 50%.

Many grads do their minimum 5 year commission and bail. Having West Point and military service as an officer on your resume can land you a pretty good job in the civilian world, even if you only did your mimimum of 5 years and left as a 1st LT or Captain.

[Shagnasty]

I don't know if this helps your question but the numbers of officers coming out of regular university ROTC programs are going to swamp the number of West Point graduates. Many regular ROTC graduates are very qualified as well and academic military credentials will only take you so far years down the road.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

In regard to Shagnasty's post, however, is there still any prejudice against reserves vis-a-vis regulars (i.e. officers who come from the service academies.).

Has an ROTC graduate ever made it to general (or admiral)?

[yabob]

Colin Powell was a ROTC graduate. I'm sure there are many others.

ETA:

Wiki's blurb on notable ROTC graduates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROTC#No...ROTC_graduates

[Governor Quinn]

Originally Posted by Spectre of Pithecanthropus

Has an ROTC graduate ever made it to general (or admiral)?

Colin Powell came out of the CCNY ROTC program, for starters

Hugh Shelton came out of North Carolina State's ROTC

[Tripler]

Originally Posted by bump

Considering that at the moment, the number of general officers is limited by law to something like 305, the odds aren't good.

Um, cite?

Only reason I ask, is that I once heard an anecdote that the Air Force alone has something like 300 Flag Officers. . . STRATCOM has a bunch of 'em due to the nuclear mission, and I'm sure with the Navy and Army, there's got to be more than 305 on active duty alone (not including the Reserves or National Guard).

Tripler
I'll keep looking through my electrons for a reference, though.

[KarlGauss]

Thanks for your responses.

By virtue of the numbers, I understand that there's gonna be a lot more generals who became an officer through ROTC than who attended West Point. Still, although slim, one's chances at making it to general are greater for a West Pointer than for someone who came in via another route such as ROTC, no?

[Jman]

No...promotion is not based on where you went to school...it's based on your merit and political savvy once you are in. Now, it may be that people who go to West Point are, on average, more into being in the Army, and therefore are more likely to make it a career, but it really doesn't matter much once you are in.

Anyway....I left as a Captain....ROTC Grad....as did several of my West Point grad friends. Some were excellent officers...others were very mediocre. It's really up to the officer, not the school, as to how far you can advance.

BTW...the current Army Chief of Staff, GEN Casey, did ROTC at Georgetown.

[bump]

Originally Posted by Governor Quinn

Colin Powell came out of the CCNY ROTC program, for starters

Hugh Shelton came out of North Carolina State's ROTC

The last two US Air Force Chiefs of Staff were ROTC grads- John Jumper came from VMI and Michael Moseley came from Texas A&M.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Jumper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Michael_Moseley

All that aside, I've heard that it's still pretty service academy slanted unless you're really exceptional.

[bump]

Originally Posted by Governor Quinn

Colin Powell came out of the CCNY ROTC program, for starters

Hugh Shelton came out of North Carolina State's ROTC

The last two US Air Force Chiefs of Staff were ROTC grads- John Jumper came from VMI and Michael Moseley came from Texas A&M.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Jumper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Michael_Moseley

Gen. Shalikashvili (former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) was an OCS graduate, and an immigrant to boot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shalikashvili

All that aside, I've heard that it's still pretty service academy slanted unless you're really exceptional.

[spifflog]

Originally Posted by Tripler

Um, cite?

Only reason I ask, is that I once heard an anecdote that the Air Force alone has something like 300 Flag Officers. . . STRATCOM has a bunch of 'em due to the nuclear mission, and I'm sure with the Navy and Army, there's got to be more than 305 on active duty alone (not including the Reserves or National Guard).

Tripler
I'll keep looking through my electrons for a reference, though.

Perhaps he was refering to the Army only. Last time I checked, a few months ago, there were about 990 flag Officers thoughout DoD.

[mks57]

West Point graduates used to have the advantage of receiving Regular Army (RA) commissions, which were not given to ROTC graduates. I read somewhere that the policy had been changed to put USMA and ROTC graduates on a more equal footing.

[Tripler]

Originally Posted by mks57

West Point graduates used to have the advantage of receiving Regular Army (RA) commissions, which were not given to ROTC graduates. I read somewhere that the policy had been changed to put USMA and ROTC graduates on a more equal footing.

It was changed a few years back--I am an AFROTC grad, and the whole thing made the news. Academy types, or "Zoomies" were granted Regular Commissions, whereas my commission is that of the Air Force Reserves (says so on my certificate, and that's where the "R" in ROTC comes from). Now, across the board we're all just 'commissioned'. There's a lot more to it (it straightens out funding or something) that I basically ignored, because a Captain is a Captain is a Lieutenant (JG). The whole thing is/was largely transparent to all of us.

Tripler
What do you call a 'Captain'? A double-barreled Lieutenant.