Do we know positively for sure that multiple schlerosis is not contagious?

[WarmNPrickly]

I feel awful having to ask this question. A freind of mine is in the hospital for it again. I am happy to go visit him and I am not concerned about catching it myself. On the otherhand, I am a new parent and I would be devastated if my daughter were to get it. On top of this, my wife has had autoimmune issues in the past, so I would not be suprised if she were susceptible.

Just about everything I know about MS comes from wikipedia. It seems like a virus or possibly bacteria could cause it. These things might be contagious. It is apparently more common in people that live further from the equator. It could be a vitamin D thing, but also people spend more time indoors in colder climates where contagions are spread easier.

[KneadToKnow]

Originally Posted by MSF

What causes MS?

Although a specific cause of MS has not yet been determined, several theories are considered plausible. MS is an “autoimmune” disease, in which, for unknown reasons, the body’s immune system begins to attack normal body tissue. In the case of MS, the body attacks the cells that make myelin.

Recent data suggest that common viruses may play a role in the cause of MS. If so, MS may be caused by a persistent viral infection or alternatively, by an immune process initiated by a transient viral infection in the central nervous system or elsewhere in the body. Environmental studies indicating where MS exists and where it is absent, suggest that there is a triggering factor. It appears that some factor-most likely infectious-must be encountered before the age of 16 in order for the disease to be triggered later in life.

Higher incidence of MS is found in the Northern temperate zones of North America and Europe, might indicate some triggering factor in the environment, such as toxins, vitamin-deficiencies, causing MS to manifest in those whose immune systems are genetically predisposed to MS.

MS is not transmitted genetically but research indicates an increased susceptibility to autoimmune diseases, appears to be at least partly genetic. MS itself is not a hereditary disease, but the hereditary factor may make an individual susceptible to its development.

Linky

[WarmNPrickly]

So basically they don't know for sure and I should be very cautious for the next sixteen years. I noticed that the wikipedia mentioned HLA abnormalities. I wonder if I should get my daughter tested for the HLA-B27 factor. I'm guessing insurance wouldn't cover it and if they did it would become a preexisting condition.

[Yllaria]

From reading the link, I'd say there's no way to be cautious, beyond basic hygene. The website says flat out that MS is not contagious. It says that there's probably a trigger and that a virus may be involved.

This sounds like the way people get Shingles, which requires previous contact with the virus that causes Chicken Pox. You can't catch Shingles from someone else with Shingles. You could possibly catch Chicken Pox, but you could catch that from anyone, even someone who had never had the disease.

In the case of Shingles, it's known that the patient still carries the virus in their system, and that whenever they have open pustules they can spread Chicken Pox. In the case of MS, this sort of thing is not known to be true.

I'd tend to doubt that the original virus is spread by MS patients. First because it could very well be that the patient gets the virus and becomes immune to the virus, which is then removed from the body. There is no identified virus, so there's no way to know if it's retained. Second because MS does not cause pustules and so would not have that avenue of contagion available to it.

If there is a virus associated with MS, it's one that does not cause an identifiable disease. It could be spread by anyone. Your best bet is to be sure that everyone in your family washes their hands, does not drink out of someone else's glass, etc.

The article also said that the trigger could be toxins or vitamin deficiencies, so watch for those. All in all, there's no reason to avoid people with MS. Doing so may give a false sense of security, but that's about all it will do.

[WF Tomba]

MS is caused by a malfunction in the immune system. There is reason to suspect that an infection can trigger such a malfunction, but this would be an infection by a "common virus", according to the linked page. That means we are talking about a virus that infects lots of people but only triggers MS in a small percentage of them.

It sounds to me as if avoiding people with MS would have an extremely small effect on one's risk of developing the disease. It is probably not worth it to worry about this.

[WarmNPrickly]

Originally Posted by Yllaria

The website says flat out that MS is not contagious.

That link isn't working for me, but the quoted text explicitly states that it may be caused by a persistent virus. If they don't know what causes it, how can they determine that it isn't contagious?

Originally Posted by WF Tomba

MS is caused by a malfunction in the immune system. There is reason to suspect that an infection can trigger such a malfunction, but this would be an infection by a "common virus", according to the linked page. That means we are talking about a virus that infects lots of people but only triggers MS in a small percentage of them.

Yes, a malfunction in the immune system and her mother has had autoimmune issues so check one against my daughter.

[WF Tomba]

Originally Posted by WarmNPrickly

That link isn't working for me, but the quoted text explicitly states that it may be caused by a persistent virus. If they don't know what causes it, how can they determine that it isn't contagious?

Epidemiological studies can determine whether a disease is contagious by looking at whether being in contact with people who have the disease makes you more likely to contract it. I don't know how extensively MS has been subjected to such studies.

[Yllaria]

The link is working for me, and it didn't say a persistent virus, it said a common virus. They, 1) don't know that it's a virus that triggers the reaction, 2) if it is a virus, they don't know which one it is or 3) whether it's persistent or not. I'm guessing that most viruses are not persistent.

If it's a common virus, then a person with MS is no more likely to be carrying it than anyone else. If it's a common virus, it's everyone else that you need to be worried about.

[Snowcarpet]

Originally Posted by WF Tomba

I don't know how extensively MS has been subjected to such studies.

Seems like a lot of interest, I'm trying to make some sense out of it, but I suck at this today...
MeSH = Multiple Sclerosis + (Epidemiology, Etiology, Viral, Etc.) = TMI, way TMI

In other words, it's *very* well studied, and I'm too tired today to make sense of it.

But *all* of the reputable info summaries that I see says pretty much this:

No, MS is not contagious

http://www.mssociety.ca/en/information/faq.htm#10
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/abo...-MS/index.aspx
http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclero...-sclerosis-faq

-The sleepy medical librarian

[Snowcarpet]

The National MS society also has this awesome guide "Research Directions in Multiple Sclerosis" - Warning - downloads pdf !
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/download.aspx?id=34

Infectious Triggers
There is some evidence that exposure to one or more
viruses may be a “trigger” that causes MS in susceptible
individuals, although no specific infectious agent
has as yet been proven to cause MS. How could
common infectious agents be involved with MS when
relatively few people have the disease? This is where
genetic susceptibility may have its impact: a common
infectious agent may trigger MS, but only in susceptible
individuals. Current evidence also suggests that this
important exposure must occur within a particular
time frame, probably within the mid-teenage years but
perhaps even earlier in life.
Many investigators believe that no single infectious
agent is “the” cause of MS. Rather, they are exploring
how a susceptible person’s immune system reacts to a
variety of viral or other infections, and how immune
function is linked to hormonal and other factors.

[Hirundo82]

Originally Posted by WarmNPrickly

So basically they don't know for sure and I should be very cautious for the next sixteen years. I noticed that the wikipedia mentioned HLA abnormalities. I wonder if I should get my daughter tested for the HLA-B27 factor. I'm guessing insurance wouldn't cover it and if they did it would become a preexisting condition.

A genetic predisposition to disease cannot be classified as a preexisting condition for insurance or employment purposes:

Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act

[Kevbo]

I know an anicdote is not data, but myself, my father, my mother, and 5 members of the neighbor's family activly helped care for a neighbor lady who had MS, over a period of not just years, but decades. If her MS was contagious, one of us would have gotten it. We haven't.

[wolf_meister]

Well as some of you know, I have it. Luckily, it isn't as debilitating for me as it is for some people. (I've been working a full-time job for 25 years.)

But be that as it may (and I doubt if it ever was ), as far as I know, I never spent any time around a person with it so I know I didn't "catch" it. None of my family, friends or relatives has contracted the disease so I feel safe that I'm not spreading it around.

Just out of curiosity, does having MS prevent a person from donating blood? Actually, I'm not planning too because MS produces a lot of fatigue and a blood donation would probably boost my fatigue quotient several hundred per cent.

Okay, not the most technically accurate medical treatise on the subject but that has been my experience with it.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

A friend of mine and his wife both have MS. He had already been diagnosed when they met. She wasn't diagnosed until after they had been married for awhile. It has always interested me in the "what are the odds of that happening outside of people meeting in an MS support group or something?" kind of way.

[lynxie]

I have had MS for about 35 years, maybe 40. The number of people whom I have known well (and lived with - including my son) that have caught it from me is zero. I have never been told by any medical professional that there was any chance of contagion.

Wolf meister - they won;t take our blood, at least in Canada simply because nobody knows for certain that there are no risks and they don't really want to find out the hard way, y'know?

[Walpurgis]

IANAD, WAG etc. But I have several autoimmune diseases and several more in my family. As far as I understand, autoimmune diseases are not contagious since there isn't a particular virus or bacteria involved. It's the body fighting itself. So, MS is just about as contagious as my dad's diabetes, my mom's arthritis or my hypothyroidism and asthma.

Edit: I don't have a cite, but people have been providing very good cites earlier on in the thread and general opinion seems to lean the same way. (Caveat inserted for morning stupidity)

[Nava]

Originally Posted by WarmNPrickly

So basically they don't know for sure and I should be very cautious for the next sixteen years. I noticed that the wikipedia mentioned HLA abnormalities. I wonder if I should get my daughter tested for the HLA-B27 factor. I'm guessing insurance wouldn't cover it and if they did it would become a preexisting condition.

No it wouldn't be a preexisting condition. There's clear evidence that genetics play a factor in Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and most if not all cancers, but saying that "you have a gene linked to illness X" is the same as "you are sick with X" is such a jump of logic it should be proposed for the Guinness Book of Records.

[vetbridge]

Many years ago there was a "epidemic" of new cases of MS in an a isolated locale (an island community, maybe?). The interesting thing was that the area suffered an epidemic of canine distemper some time prior to the new cases of MS being seen.

Here is some reading about the "link" btwn Canine Distemper and MS:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...us&btnG=Search

[WarmNPrickly]

My freinds mother was diagnosed with MS three years after him.

[vetbridge]

Missed the edit window, but Sitka, Alaska was the situation I was trying to remember.

From the link:

The annual incidence of multiple sclerosis (MS) in Sitka, Alaska, was determined in the period 1949-1979, spanning a severe 1965 epidemic of canine distemper in the dog population. Three patients were identified, and each had the onset of MS in 1969 or 1970. This time cluster of MS is significant (p < 0.01) and was predicted by the hypothesis that MS may be linked to canine distemper virus.

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by Kevbo

I know an anicdote is not data, but myself, my father, my mother, and 5 members of the neighbor's family activly helped care for a neighbor lady who had MS, over a period of not just years, but decades. If her MS was contagious, one of us would have gotten it. We haven't.

Not quite what seems to be the issue. The theory seems to be a common virus (or several), which in most cases is harmless but in dudes with a certain genetic make up or susceptibility, leads to MS. At least that's one theory anyway, If I am reading it correctly. Thus our OP has already been exposed to said common virus, and apparently is not susceptible. From what I have read, you'd have to be a bubble-boy to not be exposed at some time in your life.

[irishgirl]

Everyone has HLA genes.

Different ones make you more susceptible to different types of autoimmune and rheumatological diseases.

eg.
DR2 - sarcoidosis/lupus
A3 - primary haemachromatosis
B27 - ankylosing spondylitis, inflammatory bowel, Reiter's, psoriatic arthritis, MS
B8 - Graves' disease, coeliac
DR2 - MS, hay fever, Goodpasteur's, SLE
DR3 - DM type 1, SLE, Sjögren's
DR4 - DM type 1, RA
DR5 - Pernicious anemia, Hashimoto's thyroiditis
etc.

Having said all that...
Autoimmune disease aren't common and just having a certain HLA type doesn't ensure you'll develop any of the above conditions.

Only 50% of identical twins of people with MS develop it, and only 20% of non-identical twins develop MS. These are people who share genetic susceptibilty, early childhood exposure to viruses and often lifestyle and socio-economic similarities.

WarmNPrickly your friend is probably being treated with immunosuppressant medications to control the MS - they are more likely to pick up a nasty bug from your daughter, and for that reasons she shouldn't be visiting him.

That chances of her "catching" MS are almost certainly non existent.
The chances he catches a nasty virus from a small (presumably snotty nosed and not toilet- trained) child...reasonably high.

[Skammer]

My sister-in-law has severe chronic progressive MS -- she's permanently confined to a wheelchair and has no mobililty below her neck. We have absolutely no qualms about our 2- and 3-year old children playing, hugging, kissing her, etc. They also have four young cousins under 13 who are the same way (and their parent is a nurse practitioner).

None of her four brothers and sisters -- who grew up with her -- developed MS (they've all been tested). And they had daily contact with her for decades, and share the same gene pool. We're not the slightest bit worried.

[Pushkin]

My sister works for the MS Society here in Northern Ireland, so we get a little bit of info dropped off now and again on the illness. There's a line of thought that it's related to a genetic line that works its way back to Scotland and those of Scottish decent are more prone to suffering it. The worst rates in the world are found in Scotland, followed by Northern Ireland, which in the past received a lot of immigration from Scotland.