"Rudolph" T.V. Special

[monkeylucifer]

Okay, one thing I've felt pretty strongly about for all these years, and nobody seems to have brought it up, is that Santa is depicted as an outright bastard. Here's what I'm talking about:

• He is extremely mean and callous to Rudolph's family
• Pays no attention to the elf's song and offers only criticism
• Is disrespectful and rude to his wife
• Only acknowledges Rudolph's abnormality when it serves his needs

So, I've wondered why they chose to portray Santa as a complete Jackass...am I the only one who sees this?

[BobT]

Originally posted by Inky-


I got that there was a Phil Silvers elf (of the old Sgt. Bilko show, pretty big in it's day). He was the bald elf with the thick, black glasses who was lazing off and eventually as comeuppance gets stuffed in a bag. But who the heck was/is Burl Ives? How'd he manage to get top billing?

Who's Burl Ives? Surely you jest? Burl Ives was a big star in his day, in more ways than one.

Besides being a noted folk singer (although mainly of popular stuff), he also was an actor whose two most famous roles were that of Big Daddy in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof", and
Rufus Hannassey in "The Big Country". He won an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor for the latter role.

I sentence you to three consecutive hours of Burl Ives singing "The Big Rock Candy Mountain" as punishment.

[screech-owl]

Originally posted by BobT
I sentence you to three consecutive hours of Burl Ives singing "The Big Rock Candy Mountain" as punishment.

Followed by "Lavender's Blue (Dilly Dilly)" and "Little White Duck".

[KSO]

Santa is a total jackass, as are all the authority figures, esp. Donner. Consider all that macho crap about not letting Rudolph join in any reindeer games because he's "different," along with the glorification of silver and gold as well as fame and fortune, not to mention the already discussed toy homicide and it's all quite disturbing.

[manhattan]

Originally posted by screech-owl

Followed by "Lavender's Blue (Dilly Dilly)" and "Little White Duck".

Man. And people say I'm tough.

[mobo85]

Originally posted by Cabbage
Yep, I watched it again tonight for the first time in many years. The bird murder scene was quite cruel. There's the elf, equipping each toy with its own personal umbrella to guide it safely down to earth, until he comes to the bird. The elf even pulls out an umbrella, opens it, holding bird in one hand, umbrella in the other, as if to give one final taunt. The viewer is expecting the elf to hand over the umbrella at any moment, when suddenly, with no change of expression and showing no remorse, the elf simply tosses the bird over the sled, with complete and utter disregard for any sanctity of life.

Oh, the humanity.

The elf was not on the Island of Misfit Toys, so the elf would probably not know.

Or maybe the producers themselves forgot. The original airing in 1964 (or 1064, if you believe the opening credits) did not have the end credits we see today. After a letter-writing campaign, they were added the next year. Unfortunately, a gag regarding what Yukon Cornelius was really looking for-peppermint-had to be removed to make room for the new ending.

Also, the original airing had animated ads for the sponsor, General Electric, featuring the singing elves. It was GE's head who did not like "We're a Couple of Misfits," which had them remove it and replace it with "Fame and Fortune" from 1965 (1065?) to 1997.

[Freudian Slit]

Ignorance of the law doesn't count. Its the elf's own fault for not fulfilling his responsibilities to his job.

[Freudian Slit]

Yeah Santa is a jerk- how come he didn't realize what an arse the head elf was? Its Santa's job to know the ins and outs of the North Pole...

And yeah it is unfair that they only like Rudolph after they find out he's useful to them. Except for Clarice, Hermie, and Yukon Cornelius, who always liked him. I mean, Mr. Good and Charitable himself, Santa Claus, and Rudolph's old man, were cruel...

[ThisYearsGirl]

As for the OP, I thought the doll made crying noises instead of laughing.

[Duppyraces]

In addition to the excellent observations everyone else has made, what about the following things my roomie and I noticed?

-How come they have Reindeer practice to train new reindeer to pull the sleigh, but it's always the same reindeer pulling every year? What's the point?

-If Rudolph could fly so well (like he did at the end of the show), how come he didn't just fly back to Christmas Town instead of walking?

-King Moonracer told Rudolph, Hermey and Yukon Cornelius that he circled the globe every night in search of misfit toys; yet he asked them to tell Santa about the Island of Misfit Toys. Why didn't he just fly to tell Santa himself?

-When Sam the Snowman sings "Silver and Gold", he's playing a banjo, yet the only instruments heard are a piano and a horn. Hmmmmm.

-Why does everyone call Donder, Donner? It's Donder and Blitzen....Thunder and Lightning. Duh!

-How come the Bumble didn't just use his hands and feet to crush all of the good guys after his teeth were pulled out?

-Yukon has a large gun in his belt. Why didn't he just shoot the Bumble?

-At the beginning of the show Sam the Snowman says "You know Dasher and Dancer" etc. and then, "what, you've never heard of Rudolph?" but then he says that Rudolph is the most famous Reindeer of all. So, if you've heard of the other reindeer, you should've heard of Rudolph because he's the most famous reindeer of all!

[Munch]

Originally posted by Hail Ants
and when Mrs. Clause starts shouting, "eat Santa, eat!"

Sorry, have to do this:

Its "eat, Papa, eat".

I'm done now.

[Guy Propski]

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled question.

The unfortunate fact is that the Doll's problem/fault was never discussed. In fact,she' guilty by association--she's on the Island of Misfit Toys, therefore she's a misfit.

The only misfit toys that were described were the Charlie in the box, the bird that swam instead of flying, a train with square wheels, a squirt gun that shot jelly instead of water, a boat that couldn't float, a cowboy riding an ostrich, and an elephant with spots.

According to the script, the misfits elf's name was HERMIE. This also suggests another reason why he's a misfit--he's the only Jewish elf.

You know, Christmas is becoming the most enigmatic of all holidays, what with unanswered questions about Scrooge's job, the cause of the Star of Bethlehem, the meaning of the 12 Days of Christmas, and all the questions raised about that twisted TV special, "Rudolph."

[Beruang]

Actually, I've always liked this show [b]because[b/] Santa is portrayed as petty, ignorant, and flawed -- in other words, a real human, and not some sickly sweet saint.

As for other contemporary references, the Chief Elf quotes Charlie Brown ("Good grief!") and Lawrence Welk ("Ah one-a and a two-a").

Of course, the entire show is a thinly veiled reference to the Civil Rights movement...

[Bean Counter]

Does anyone else think the misfit toys have a good case for discrimination against Santa Claus?

I mean, in other scenarios involving Mr. S. Claus and his Christmas Eve flight, it has him landing on or near the house, doing the chimney and placing the toys in stockings, under trees, etc.

But then you get to the Misfit Toys and things change! They are given an unbrella, a boot on the rump and they are gone! The fat bastard does not even slow the sleigh down. He probably learn that from his Mafioso connections. Not to mention the fact that numerous people have ON TAPE one of his henchmen chucking that poor, flightless bird over the sleigh to plumet to an early, gruesome death. Does anyone else smell organized crime here?!?

That elf-lover should be doing hard time in Marion.

[AnsaMan]

Hey its like this:

If you don't see the bird hit,
You must acquit!

[AnsaMan]

I made up a song parody when very young for
the Elves song:

We are Santa's Elves
We are Santa's Elves
Burning, Raping, Looting, and Maiming
We are Santa's Elves!

Ok, I had a violent childhood!

And then there was Rudolph the Brown-Nosed
Reindeer.

"Ho..ho..ho"
"The Federal Aviation Administration
has pulled my airworthiness certificate
because I lack a proper strobe device
for use in low visibility...I need your
help Rudolph!"

[flodnak]

The doll's problem (besides the fact that she's running around in the snow wearing a sundress) is her hair. Look at her! Some eediot sewed the ribbons at the bottom of her pigtails instead of the top! Poor thing looks like a freak. Her hair splits into two parts for no apparent reason.

As for why Yukon doesn't shoot the Bumble: a pistol of that caliber would probably only make him mad....

[Dangerosa]

Does Santa's wife strike anyone else as a Yenta? I never really imagined that the icon for the major Christian holiday would have a Jewish wife.

Of course she could be an East Coaster of other Mediterrian extraction and I shouldn't sterotype.

[Duppyraces]

Hmmm...now that I think of it, isn't Rudolph's friend, Fireball, the only reindeer with hair on his head? To make matters worse, I think it was bright yellow hair! Why didn't the other reindeer tease HIM? When Fireball freaked out at Rudolph's nose, Rudolph shoulda let him have it about his stupid bleached hair.

Even if some of the other reindeer have hair, I don't think a red nose is any sillier. I'll have to watch it again to make sure.

[Guy Propski]

Re: Fireball's reaction to Rudolph's nose. Okay, so it's a bit unusual to see someone's nose light up. That doesn't explain Fireball's reaction, who acts as if Rudolph's face just peeled off and the skull burst into flames. Was he dropping acid or something?

As to Santa having "human foilables", baloney! This is obviously an old, disgruntled Santa, burned out by years of reading whiny letters from Sally Brown and Lucy van Pelt. Nagged to death by a yenta of a wife, he sublimates his rage by ruling his minions with an iron fist, and ejects anyone who disagrees with his idea of perfection. Only when his life is at risk (it's too foggy to fly) does he stoop to asking for the mutant reindeer's help. And now, thanks to the misfit toys, he can get revenge on the screaming pre-pubers, giving them defective toys instead of what they ask for. That's why he's so happy at the end--"Screw you, kids! Don't try to stand out!"

Bitter? Oh, just a tad.

[WIGGUM]

Because Rudolph's ailment is ten times freakier than Firball's. I mean come on, a thatch of hair versus a nose that lights up. I've already let it be known what I think of that mutant, Rudolph here: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...threadid=25547

[palad]

Re: Donner vs. Donder

Check out the article on this at http://www.snopes2.com/holidays/xmas/donner.htm

It explains the whole sordid mess.

[Dinsdale]

Kids had this on when I got home. After I popped the frozen zas in the oven (abomination my a$$!) I went downstairs to see the end.

No question but the elf shoves the bird with his right arm. My kids weren't too worried, tho. The unanimously immediately responded, just because he (they knew it's gender as well) can't fly, doesn't mean he can't glide.

They also weren't too worried about the doll's psychological problems. Agreed her misfit status had something to do with her crying all the time.

They also thought a jelly gun would be neat.

Just wanted to feed you the fruit of my research!

[Nacho4Sara]

Sorry to catch on late, but the name of the dentist elf is indeed Hermie. You can imagine my delight, when, at the tender age of eight, my older cousin Roy explained to me that "Hermies" have both boy and girl parts, thus rendering me incapable of truly enjoying a childhood classic until I figured out what boy and girl "parts" are.

Also, the Misfit doll was a misfit because she was always sad - chique was right about that one. She was my favorite - I had her doll. Psychological questions nonwithstanding, she as also really weird looking. I'm sure all the normal little girls teased her until she sought refuge with the other freaks.

Damn kids. No wonder I loved that doll so much.

One last comment: The elf totally pushed him! I specifically recall asking my mom if the bird learned to fly, or did the elf push him. She told me that the elf taught him to fly, or some parental bullshit like that.

I have the movie on tape, and I used to watch it year-round. Much better than any Christmas tripe that Disney pushed out.

Don't even get me started on "A Christmas Story." I have so many unanswered questions about that movie.

[Marvel]

DUDE!

Your sinister MST3King of "Rudolph" (see page one of this thread, folks) had me laughing out loud IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS LIBRARY! Do you know how hard it is to stiffle "I'm-reeady-to-cry" laughter?!?!!

And other folks have me choking back my chuckles too - DAMN IT ALL!

Must Leave Library,
Patty

[Chronolicht]

Misfit dusted the bird. She's got BPD, a real tweaker. She needed 500 milligrams Cogentin PRN.

[denalione]

Y'all are missing the entire point. The story is about man's (in this case reindeer's and elf's) struggle against a discriminatory and oppressive society.

What kind of story would it be if Donner had encouraged his fawn and fought for his right to be included, and if Santa had immediately seen the intrinsic usefulness of Rudolph's unique feature?

If this were produced today, NPSS (North Pole Social Services) would have cited Donner for child neglect and Rudolph would have been removed from a loving but somewhat socially backwards home and been placed in foster care. He would be used as the poster fawn for the lefts fight for universal health care because "Rudolph has just as much right to have his nose surgically corrected as privileged reindeer do." Because his nose would no longer shine Santa would not have been able to deliver toys that Christmas.

What if Santa had encouraged Hermie to pursue his dentistry interest?

He would have done undergrad work at Michigan and been involved in an affirmative action battle because he was possibly admitted due to his elfness and not because of his grades (grades which are probably not relevant since his only education is toy making)

And the misfit toys would still be on the island, lonely and separated from the rest of society.

On the good side - there would be one less case of ornithoside and fewer traumatized children in the world.

[Scupper]

Watched this for the first time in years recently. Especially keen on seeing this supposed avicide.

All I can say is all of you anti-elfites are making me sick with your baseless accusations. You can see, if you do a frame-by-frame analysis of the scene, that the toy bird was preparing to attack the poor elf, no doubt due to psychological imbalance stemming from it's mistreatment as a misfit toy.

This mitigating factor can lead to only one interpretation of the actions of the accused Santa's helper:



Elf Defense.

[Anon99]

It's not only the characters, the entire theme of "Rudolph" is thoroughly objectionable!

The song (on which the TV special is based) makes it clear: "All of the other reindeer / Used to laugh and call him names / They never let poor Rudolph / Join in any reindeer games! / Then one foggy Christmas Eve / Santa came to say. / Rudolph with your nose so bright / Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? / Then all the reindeer loved him etc. etc.

When my wife, who is from Europe, first heard this song, she was appalled. "This is a Christmas song?! What kind of values does this teach to children? Sure, the other reindeer "love" him now that he is a successful big shot. The other reindeer are a bunch of brown-noseing hypocrits!"

After due consideration, I am convinced she is correct. The entire premise of the Rudolph story speaks volumes about twisted, middle-class post-war notions of morality.

BTW, this is one of the best threads I have ever read. I am amazed at the amount of actual scholarship and analysis that has gone into this debate. Someone really ought to hold annual awards for best on-line discussion. How about the "Cecils?"

[DAVEW0071]

Scupper, your analysis of the film is marred by only one omission: "Back and to the left. Back and to the left."

One other question re: Rudolph's condition. Is it possible his mother took Thalidomyde?

[Freudian Slit]

What's Thalidomyde? I think she could have been on Valium. Donner? On steroids, his own testosterone, or a male ego trip. I mean come on..."NO, this is MAN'S work." Gheesh. Female reindeer like this stuff? Rudolph was pretty cute looking when he was older though.

[Duppyraces]

Originally posted by Zoggie
Female reindeer like this stuff? Rudolph was pretty cute looking when he was older though.

Yeah, I'll agree with you there. And remember, to illustrate that he was older, they showed a long, gratuitous shot of his arse while he was bent over taking a drink. This is a kid's show? Sex. Murder. The "true" character of Santa and crew. And what was up with Yukon constantly licking his pike. Silver and Gold my butt. This plot is as thick as peanut butter! "You eat what you like, and I'll eat what I like."

NYAAHHHH!!

[poohpah chalupa]

Originally posted by Duppyraces
...And what was up with Yukon constantly licking his pike. Silver and Gold my butt...

::falls off chair, laughing::
"oww!"



::rubbing head:: "Welcome to the boards, Duppy!"


...I think...

[Gyrate]

Another thing they don't tell you is that Hermie eventually flunked out of dental school and ended up in a string of low-paying jobs before landing a prominent role in a series of Altoids banner ads...

jr8

[Annie-Xmas]

Originally posted by Anon99

BTW, this is one of the best threads I have ever read. I am amazed at the amount of actual scholarship and analysis that has gone into this debate. Someone really ought to hold annual awards for best on-line discussion. How about the "Cecils?"

I had to nominate this one for Threadspotting. I was totally amazed that a simple question about a classic holiday TV special could degenerate into a discussion about murderous elves committing orthocide, dysfunction toys, a gay elf masquerading as a dentist, one bad ass Santa, etc., etc. You Dopers can corrupt anything.

[buffalo-boy]

You know, reading these has got me thinking... If Santa's the originator of all toys, didn't HE make the
misfits in the first place?!?! Well, maybe the elves made them, but he's still management and ultimately
responsible for production AND customer satisfaction. PLUS, why is he dumping the shoddy toys
BACK onto the market!?!!? Weren't they rejected by consumers?

[mobo85]

Originally posted by Duppyraces

Yeah, I'll agree with you there. And remember, to illustrate that he was older, they showed a long, gratuitous shot of his arse while he was bent over taking a drink. This is a kid's show? Sex. Murder. The "true" character of Santa and crew. And what was up with Yukon constantly licking his pike. Silver and Gold my butt. This plot is as thick as peanut butter! "You eat what you like, and I'll eat what I like."

NYAAHHHH!!

Yukon was looking for PEPPERMINT!

[jsc1953]

Originally posted by Inky-
I watched it last night as well and just realized that there were a bunch of really out of date references in it, kind of like those old Bugs Bunny cartoons from WWII or those Woody Woodpecker cartoons where he's stealing ration books.

I got that there was a Phil Silvers elf (of the old Sgt. Bilko show, pretty big in it's day). He was the bald elf with the thick, black glasses who was lazing off and eventually as comeuppance gets stuffed in a bag. But who the heck was/is Burl Ives? How'd he manage to get top billing?

Tsk, youth.

I'm too lazy to provide an IMDB link, but Burl Ives was pretty big potatoes back in the day (50's). Had a decent career as a folk singer and actor; although he's most associated with a warm and folksy demeanor, he's probably best known for his portrayal of Big Daddy in the film version of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof (with Liz Taylor & Paul Newman).

Had a short-lived sitcom, too. Anybody else remember "O.K. Crackerby" ?

[Freudian Slit]

And why the hell was the Bumble so zealous to join in with the Christmas spirit all of a sudden?

And WHY did Mrs. Claus say the children would be so disapoint to see a "skinny Santa"? Hello! The kids are going to be asleep when Santa comes through the chimney. Sorry...but that bothered me.

Who was Santa going to foist the misfit toys onto?

Why was Anon banned? He seems to have only one post here- what was so offensive about it? Please don't kill me for asking...

[Duppyraces]

Originally posted by Zoggie

And WHY did Mrs. Claus say the children would be so disapoint to see a "skinny Santa"? Hello! The kids are going to be asleep when Santa comes through the chimney. Sorry...but that bothered me.

EXCELLENT point! And I thought we'd exhausted all the major flaws! Gives me hope.

Another thing I noticed is that Yukon says TWICE early on that a Bumble's ONLY weakness is water. What about his teeth? I mean, remove them and you're looking at a mighty humble bumble. I guess Yukon must have meant tooth-enabled Bumble weakness.

Speaking of which, I don't care if you take Hannibal Lecter's teeth out; he's not decorating my Christmas tree.

All in all, my favorite lesson of Rudolph is that I no longer feel alone. I've learned a valuable lesson from Santa in that I'm not the only one who can go from that skinny to that fat in only a few weeks.

[Spoke]

Please remind me never to select any of you dopers for a murder jury!

Where is the evidence that the elf was aware of the bird's "disability"? Isn't it possible that the elf just made the reasonable (if mistaken) assumption that the bird could fly?

If the elf didn't know
You must let him go!

If anyone's culpable here, it's Rudolph. He certainly knew the bird couldn't fly. Why didn't he tell the elf? A clear-cut case of negligence, I say. I hope Rudolph's has insurance, 'cause once he gets paroled from doing time for manslaughter (er, birdslaughter), he's looking at a major lawsuit. Santa better hope his premiums are paid, too, 'cause he has some vicarious liability as Rudolph's employer.

[Lyllyan]

The doll was a misfit because she was no longer loved. King Moonracer flys all over the world every night and brings back toys that no little girl or boy loves. Charlie-in-the-box said it, don't you remember? And yes, Santa was mean. And I hate that part where Santa asks Rudolph to pull his sleigh and Rudolph says in that smarmy, brown nose voce "It would be an honor Sir!" I HATE that!

[Spoke]

Oh yeah, and was it my imagination, or did the Abominable Snowman catch an antler to the 'nads? He seemed to have an especially pained expression on his face when Rudolph gave him a shot to the nether regions.

[Sunshine]

Back to the OP...

The doll was misfit because she cried ice cubes instead of tears. (Really!)

As to the owlicide...due to the speed and trajectory at which the owl left the sleigh, the only possible theory is that there was a second elf.

[DRY]

Originally posted by Sunshine
As to the owlicide...due to the speed and trajectory at which the owl left the sleigh, the only possible theory is that there was a second elf.

[Joe Pesci voice]
"A triangulated cross-fire. That's the key!"

"A diversionary shot gets the Secret Service leaning the other way. Then, the kill shot! The key is, one man (elf?) has to be sacrificed."
[Joe Pesci voice]

Great thread, but what is it still doing in General Questions?

[mobo85]

Originally posted by Sunshine
Back to the OP...

The doll was misfit because she cried ice cubes instead of tears. (Really!)

As to the owlicide...due to the speed and trajectory at which the owl left the sleigh, the only possible theory is that there was a second elf.

Based on the Laws of Cartoon Physics, anyone in cold weather will cry ice cubes. Also, they'll turn into one if they put their entire body in a lake in cold weather.

[The Man Who]

Originally posted by Guy Propski
According to the script, the misfits elf's name was HERMIE. This also suggests another reason why he's a misfit--he's the only Jewish elf.

Just saw The Santa Clause for the first time this weekend, and a LOT of the elves seemed to be Jewish in that one, especially the head elf Bernard (played by David Krumholtz).

It gave me pause.

Cordially,

Myron M. Meyer
The Man Who

[screech-owl]

I watched the tape last night.
My god.
It WAS an owl.

"Those dirty, rotten, stinking b@stards!"

::leaves to light a candle in memory of a dear-departed cousin::

[Freudian Slit]

Originally posted by screech-owl
I watched the tape last night.
My god.
It WAS an owl.

"Those dirty, rotten, stinking b@stards!"

::leaves to light a candle in memory of a dear-departed cousin::

Screech...my heart goes out to you.

Jester and i were having this really weird discussion in which we talked about the psychological significance of Rudolph and of Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus in general...

[Freudian Slit]

Hey i didn't realize this thread went into threadspotting. Wow cool beans!!!! I gotta revive it. Its my duty...otherwise I'll be known as the person who killed Rudolph....'s thread, that is.