What the heck does that mean? Would a black business man have racist slurs yelled at him while getting on the bus? Be refused service in a shop? Get beat up if he went in the wrong club?
I watch a lot of home type shows House Hunters, Property Virgins etc. Many of the home buyers are black and in the southern US. They’re all typically successful for the home buyers usual featured - they’re well educated, have good jobs, seem successful. In fact, the only difference I can see between the black and white participants is that the black participants tend to dress a bit more formally.
So, how can people justify racism against such people? I suppose if the only black people you ever met were gang bangers you might develop a negative view; however, gang bangers are a minority - there are obviously lots of very successful black people in the south - so how do racists reconcile this? Or do they?
I’m white, so my perspective on this is going to be different than a black Southerner.
FWIW, I grew up in the South but for only a brief part of my early childhood lived in the true “Deep South”. My family moved to the northern part of the Midwest and that’s where I went to high school. I went to college in Virginia, spent a year overseas, returned to the Midwest for grad school, and then back to the South to work.
I’ve never even heard of anything like this happening in the past 20+ years. This isn’t to say that it never would, but to my knowledge it hasn’t anyplace I lived. I’d say the last one would actually be more likely in the northern part of the country, but my opinion may be skewed by the fact that when I lived in the Midwest I was in a bigger city with far more nightclubs than anyplace I’ve ever lived in the South.
With regard to the linked thread, I’ve only been approached by black panhandlers or beggars in the Midwest, never in the South. This again may be due to big vs. small city factors, though.
The most severe racism I’ve ever personally witnessed in the South was the telling of racist jokes when only white people were around. The last time that happened I was in my early teens, and I’m sorry to say I didn’t speak up about it. I haven’t encountered such behavior since then, although I expect that’s due more to the kinds of people I choose to spend my time with now. In both the North and South I have heard white people complain about Affirmative Action and how lazy black people get unfair advantages over hardworking whites.
I can pass on a few secondhand accounts of racism from a friend of mine in college. She was a biracial (half black, half white) girl from Virginia. She was very attractive and had an ambiguous “ethnic” look – people guessed all kinds of things that had no relation to her real background: American Indian, East Indian, Puerto Rican, Filipina, etc. She told me that she’d learned the hard way that it was best to tell people she was black early on to avoid disappointment later.
No one had ever turned violent or shouted racial slurs at her or anything, but she said there were plenty of guys who’d suddenly loose interest in her once they knew the truth. Not being white apparently wasn’t a dealbreaker, but being black (even half black) was. She’d even had a boyfriend in high school break up with her after meeting her parents. There’d also been guys who were happy to go out with her, but told her to wait in the car if they had to stop by his parents’ house.
I’ll mention here that while I have had black Southern friends both as a child and as an adult, I never had any black friends while living in the Midwest. I knew some black people and was friendly acquaintances with a few, but we wouldn’t have invited each other to parties or anything. I couldn’t say whether this was because of different attitudes towards interracial friendship or because there are far more black people living in the South so my odds of making a black friend are better.
*There are Southern racists who will tell you that they don’t have a problem with ALL black people, only the “bad” ones. There are also those who will claim that black people are only successful due to getting unfair advantages thanks to Affirmative Action. (In the absence of AA, I’m sure they’d have some other excuse.)
Lest I put too rosy a glow on things, although we lived in Mississippi only briefly over 20 years ago, my mother still sometimes mentions how racist it was there and how bad she felt about it. She’s never said anything about witnessing overt racist behavior towards black people, but there was a very obvious poverty gap. At the extremes, there were white people in mansions and black people in shacks made of scrap metal. She’s also said it was embarrassing for her to be on the receiving end of deferential attention from black people, especially older folks. “It didn’t seem right for someone as old as my grandfather to be calling me ‘ma’am’.”
I’m not Black. But I am Brown. Well, I’m REALLY Pale actually, but my family is brown. So I’ll share my views growing up in VA (which I don’t really consider the "deep south’ at all thankfully. Though I was born in Lynchburg VA, home of Jerry Falwell).
-Q1: I’ve never seen a Black dude have racial slurs used against him, especially not in public. I have heard plenty of people make racist jokes though using the N-word, or making fun of Arabs, towel-heads, and Hindus.
I’ve also been called a pagan, and told I’m going to hell for not being a Christian. However, those people were idiots. And it wasn’t in lynchburg surprisingly enough- Lynchburgers have been RIDICULOUSLY nice to me, to the point of where it makes me kinda paranoid. That, or they just eyeball you from a distance, and so at least you know where you stand- he doesn’t trust you, but he’s not going to say anything, because he’s not sure of what or who you are. That’s fine with me, leave me be, and that’s all I ask. Most of the offensive shit was said though in high school or gym locker-room sorta atmosphere- I went to a private school too. So there were like 10 black people I think in the total upper school. And like 15-20 Brown kids. But it was high school and the kids that talked shit, would talk shit about EVERY group- it kinda bugged me, but the excuse was “We’re not biased. We’re equally offensive to everyone” though they did harp on the word f*ggot alot, and I think like maybe 1-2 people in the school would even be comfortable saying that they were such. I didn’t agree with the kids, but If i spoke up, I’d be the next target (I recall in middle school one of them would eat a roast beef sandwich and rub his hands in it, and then touch my sandwich to see if I’d eat it. Or if I’d get mad. That was a jackass thing to do. But I didn’t get mad, I’d just sigh, and give the food to someone else who didn’t have anything. That guy became a lot cool later on in high school, and was a nice guy. But in junior high school- that’s the sort of jackassery I had to deal with).
2. I think alot of it isn’t racism per say against black people, just biases. My family itself is very biased I’ve noticed over the years. They’re not racist, but they’ve got misconceptions- they’re afraid of black people, though they’re also afraid of cops, drunk white people, and angry christian people. Or just Drunk White People as a group. More shit has been said and stuff by white people than black people in real life to my family- yet, my parents are still scared driving through an urban city at night. And I’ll admit it- it’s rubbed off on me. I’m not racist, nor do i consider myself really prejudiced in any actual manner, but in my way of thinking, I noticed that I’m afraid of unknown black people at night in the city. I won’t cross the street to avoid them or anything like that- but I’ll be more alert and just cautious- i notice that I’m internally a bit more scared. Then again, I’m the same way with Drunk people too, because I just automatically revert to this “outsider” sorta mentality. Which i hate, but it’s there, and I don’t see it as being harmful in any sort of real way. It’s just very weird though, it’s only around strangers- If I know the person, regardless of what race they are, then I’m fine with them. So i consider it just a normal human behavior that I’ve got, but i still think i’m biased for doing such things. But i’m okay with that. :shrug:
So yeah, would I say there’s racism in the south? Probably. But I’d say Southerns are more likely just to be Biased than racist. You’re more likely to have someone watch you or just look at you with distrust rather than actually physically say something or take action against you in my (sheltered) opinion. That said, my Muslim friends- well I feel for them. they’ve had all sorts of shit to deal with from everyone since 9-11. If that’s more common in the south than elsewhere, I do not know. But they’ve been verbally abused from people driving in the street who noticed their clothing or such things. That’s not so cool. Never seen that happen to any of my black friends, then again, perhaps they just haven’t shared those stories with me.
That said, I will also add, that Southerners can be some of the NICEST people you can meet too. I’ve said all this, but I do love my native Virginia. If people know you, or they’re just from good stock- they’re rediculously nice in just chatting with you and being polite, and I do love getting asked for some “sweet te-ah or-a coke” in a restaurant every so often. I love Southern VA, and I always get freaked out when I visit Northern VA because there’s so many brown people up there- I rarely see that. I remember going to the movies up there, and I saw an INDIAN PoliceWOMAN. That BLEW my mind, she was SO HOT- it was like so many different triggers going off at once on the exotic becoming erotic- alright, I’m rambling now. But still, yeah, I love VA, I wish to explore more of this “northern Virginia” more so, and I would probably never live in the “Deep South” ie: below North Carolina- as all of my family’s bad experiences have pretty much come from visiting down to trips to Florida, passing thru GA, and going towards Mississippi and Alabama. I don’t like the climate, and it’s one thing to be looked at with distrust- it’s another to be approached by someone and questioned for it. It’s times like those I’m glad I have sorta pale skin actually. Which sucks. And I don’t like thinking like that, and so I’ll stick with VA, but I don’t consider that to be that bad at all. You find all types of people everywhere you go. Hell, the rich kids with the BMW’s going to IVY league schools in my private school were more likely to be making the racist jokes than the poorer people working in the gas-stations in Lynchburg, VA. So yeah, people are people, and you can’t really use broad strokes to paint everyone, but you’ll find something of everyone probably anywhere you go- that’s my three cents on the matter.
sorry If i’ve rambled or kinda taken to the topic in my own way, but I felt like sharing my experiences i guess. :shrug: don’t normally like to do that.
But I do love my VA, and it bums me to see that it has the reputation that it sometimes gets- but i can’t say it’s completely 100% not true either. But I think you’re likely to find the same sort of stuff I was talking about happening to me in other places too up North or out on the West Coast too. It’s just people tend to associate it more with the South, and so when you’re looking for shit to happen, of course when the shit happens it sticks to your mind more.
Sorry, I’m not black, but let me talk about this just a bit. NOTE: the following is in no way a justification for racism.
Although you may have seen some well-to-do folks on that program, the majority of people in MS are poor. Some are kind of ‘working poor’ but many of them are literally hand-to-mouth poor, black and white together. But whether black folks are sucessful and classy doesn’t have anything to do with it. Matter of fact, sometimes a sucessful black family makes certain white folks madder than ever.
Here is my HO about the background of it all. I probably have a lot wrong but this is as I see it, from living here most all my life. My parents were actually ‘outsiders’, my dad being from Kentucky and my mom from Illinois (a Yankee!). So I kind of had a feeling of watching all this from an outsiders position, as Roosh says.
Anyway.
Back in the slavery days, as we all know, whites treated blacks just like cattle or horses and so whites were not raised to think of them as humans, or people; but animals. I don’t know how all that was justified, but that was the way it was.
The percentage of whites who were landowners was not great. There were more poor white people than there were well-to-do ones. The poor white folks scraped up a living, and lived off of the land when they could.
The War came along, and a lot of families lost most of their menfolk. Many who came back were crippled or sick. (This isn’t a ploy for sympathy, I’m just explaining). So now you had the poor whites (some of the well-to-do joined their ranks due to losses of the war) scraping for a living again, but now they were in competition with the poor blacks who were the freed slaves. (They’re both chasing the same rabbit for supper). So began the culture war between the poor folks. (I know some folks disagree with this. It makes sense to me though.)
That turned into a lot of hatred for black folks. Jim Crow laws grew from the well-to-do white man, who was in control of politics, having a feeling of brotherhood with the poor white man; this apartheid was a way for the poor white man to somehow still be superior (in his mind) to the poor black man. Blacks were the target of harassment and derision in order for the poor white to feel better about himself. Plus a lot of people still thought that blacks were little more than animals. All was hunky dory (for whites only) until the civil rights movement.
With me so far?
So then after the Federal Government had to step in and tell the State to clean up its act, the real resentment set in. A lot of white folks were very angry and were angry for a long long time. Mostly because, I think, they were knocked out of the catbird seat; yet they felt it was a place they rightfully occupied. Kind of like divine rights of kings.
Here’s another weirdness which I don’t understand. This kind of bullshit about black folks was actually taught in church. The cite I have for this is first-hand testimony from friends. They were taught, literally, in sunday school that black people were inferior.
So, then, you have the Federal Government coming in to tell you that not only are your Mom and Dad wrong, but also your Preacher and probably your teacher at school and Mr. Wilson next door and … pretty soon the whole world is upside down. No wonder these old people are grumpy! They were brainwashed and now the whole thing is exposed as a huge scam. So they’re angry. And some of them refuse to believe the truth. And some of them will grow past a lot of the old baggage, a walk a long way towards the truth, yet not be able to quite get all the way.
It’s been a long and bloody struggle from there to here, as everyone knows. Many white people of the older generations are educated now, and most all of our young folks are much much better. BUT there are still little sticking points - it’s going to take a long time until we have a majority of unprejudiced populace. I agree with a recent post someone else made - some of it has got to die out with the older generations (not to sound too cold).
I’m sure I probably made some grammar mistakes in that dissertation but I hope you will forgive me.
I’m going to do something I’m certain to regret. I’m going to explain it from my point of view (someone who has lived here my entire life) and the point of view of others I know that have moved here from the north and have been here a couple of years. This is going to come off as a broad generalization, and it is going to sound racist. I don’t expect you to understand it, but I know I’m not making this up. I don’t care if you believe me, but I feel like it is worth saying, and worth hearing.
Most black people in the south are not like the black people that you know.
I am **not **talking about all black people in the south. And I cannot speak for the entire southern landscape, only my town, which I feel is a microcosm of the south. I am, however, referring to the majority of the black people in my town.
My best friend’s wife is from Michigan. She came here a couple of years ago and was appalled at racist remarks being made at her place of employment. She felt like she had stepped back in time. She was stunned.
Today, she cannot stand “The black people here”, and has used the “N-word” on more than a few occasions. She’s made comments that black people are **NOTHING **like where she came from.
I have a black friend. He’s a hell of a guy. Came here from Upstate New York more than ten years ago. Funniest person you ever met. Made jokes about being a “boy” from up north. Figured this place for racist. Now he wants to join the clan. “I fucking hate niggers living here,” he’s told me a time or two. “They give black people a bad rap. I see why white people in the south are racist.” I am not misquoting him.
I cannot remember how many black acquaintances I’ve heard tell me or someone within earshot of me about how much they “hate niggers down here.” “They are every stereotype you ever heard of!” These are quotes from black people.
Most black people in the south are not like the black people that you know.
I used to date a black girl (hi-yella, as her father was apt to call her) who despised most black people in this town. She moved away when her mother died. I know it was at least in part because of that.
Sorry, I meant to answer this, and the answer is nothing like that. It’s better than 99% all racist observation, typically white people talking to white people about black people, but sometimes black talking to white and black to black happens as well.
So, I am black and currently live in North Carolina.
I believe that Southerners are not anymore racist than Northerners. I believe that they have an undeserving reputation of bigotry and a history of ugliness that colors how interaction between races are perceived.
That being said I grew up in the North (New York City) in a mixed neighborhood and never, to my memory, can I remember feeling uncomfortable around people of different races or ethnicities, remember none of the traditional black-white racism we are probably talking about. In fact, I remember more tensions between people of different Caribbean groups, Hispanics, Indians, Jewish people, etc. There were enough groups that there was enough bigotry to spread around!
It was on moving to Chapel Hill, NC, a liberal bastion in the South, that I encountered my first bit of racism that I know of. I was with a large group of friends and we were fooling around in the street, laughing and joking. For some reason I was making monkey sounds effects, just as we passed these two white men. I was laughing and vaguely over heared one say to his friend, “I told you all of them niggers was monkeys.” I kinda froze and my friends made it half a block before they noticed I was not with them. I have NEVER been in so shocked in my life. I plane could have fallen out of sky with less effect.
Throughout the years, I have been subject to other overt racist moments. I was once told to leave a WAFFLE HOUSE because I was in mixed company. And my white boyfriend and I have had black and white people make several nasty comments to us.
Not sure what to make of all that. My anecdotal evidence says, yes, there is more racism in the the South. I say, it is institutional and what was see is highlighted because of confirmational bias. But people are people, so I know there is racism in the North.
It was surprising to me, too. I could somewhat understand a white guy who only wanted to date white girls, but not one who was willing to date girls of any race as long as they weren’t black. And in my friend’s case it was clear enough that it was not her physical attractiveness that was the problem. Her appearance was acceptable until they learned exactly what made her so “exotic” looking. She had some pretty funny stories about white guys trying to hit on her with their barely remembered high school Spanish.
In fairness to the white men of the South, not all of them had similar hangups…at least not with regard to my friend. She had at least one long term relationship with a white guy who wasn’t bothered by her racial background, and casually dated a few others. (She also dated black and biracial guys who presumably didn’t have a problem with her being half black either.)
Well, Euthanasiast, that post certainly lacks details. In what way are most black people in the south different from the black people that we (or just those of us who are non-southern, I guess) know?
I don’t actually know a lot of black people - where I am there is a very, very small population of black people (I believe it’s about 15,000 blacks in a city of over 1,000,000) and my experience is limited to people I work with or have contact with. My family doctor is black. A number of the researchers or physicians at work are black. A couple of the admin staff are black. A good friend from high school is black (there were only three black kids in my high school when I went - the school had 3,000 kids) She’s a lawyer now. So - educated, firmly middle class people.
BUT - my question is - is the difference between these black people and the black people you’ve spoken about nothing at all to do with blackness and everything to do with socio-economic status? Are the very poor white people in the south very different than the very poor black people?
And on the shows - I watched one tonight from Atlanta. Both the realtor and the lady buying the house were black. Perfectly normal, educated, successful people. Are you suggesting that the show’s producers have beat the bushes to find the only two educated, successful black women in the south to feature on their show? I really find that rather hard to believe.
Was that in North Carolina by any chance? That is really bizarre. I think it’s also against the law.
You don’t know most black people in the South and you don’t know what black people I know so your large font statement makes no sense. You just humiliated yourself.
I can’t speak about Florida, but Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama have very high populations of people of color. I travel through Alabama often on I-65 and I notice a lot of interracial mixing each trip – especially with young people. Besides, everyone in Alabama is either pro-Auburn or pro-University of Alabama. They are used to having black and brown heroes.
Since I’ve never lived up north, I’m not the authority. I only know what I’ve been told by people that I know who came down here from the north and made those observations, both black and white. You hear it enough times, you begin to think that maybe they have a point.
Perhaps I could get one of them to sign up and explain it from their perspective (and I thought of doing that rather than posting myself), but I doubt that would be good enough.
But, returning to my question - is it really blackness that’s an issue, or poorness?
Are you suggesting that poor southern white folks are all hard working, upstanding folks and all the poor sourthern black folks are lazy bums? I’m really not buying it.
However, your post has provided an answer to my question in the OP - describe racism in the southern US.
I was just thinking to myself, “the white people aren’t like any white people you know”. Everything’s a little different here, ya know? We’re still struggling with education - we have a lot of un-educated folks. No, that’s not a slam against teachers.
I say that’s why we don’t have this rot about moving out of the country and such here ('cuz of Obama). We’re used to black mayors and senators. A black prez is the next logical step.
