Who killed the two guys who tried to kill Michael in his bedroom – the scene when he sees something outside the wondows and hits the floor just before the machinegun starts firing, and then crawls over and drags Kay to the floor.
So, I know that Fredo was the traitor, and it was Roth that sent them IIRC. But who actually killed them before they could even get off the property? Surely it couldn’t have been Fredo, could it?
The first rule of assassination: kill the assassins.
Who actually killed them is unimportant; everything goes back to Roth.
I don’t recall whether Fredo spent the night at Michael’s place or not. Maybe I remember his blonde wife freaking out when the compound went into lockdown, but he was in bed with her when the phone rang. That was at Fredo’s house, wasn’t it? I don’t see Roth or Ola knwing the number of the phone in the guest house where Fredo was sleeping at Michael’s place.
I don’t see Fredo going out, killing a couple guys (assassins with machine guns, no less!) and hiding their bodies in a culvert in the middle of the night either, but I’ve been wrong before.
I disagree. Presumably they were killed so if they got caught, they couldn’t be forced to reveal who ordered the hit. But since they were killed before ever leaving the property, it should have been a dead giveaway that there was a traitor in the household. And it’s real hard to believe that Fredo could do it, which means there were two traitors.
Are we supposed to believe this third triggerman got away clean, after the alarms had gone off? In that case, why didn’t all three get away, and all three get silenced later? Afterall, the 3rd shooter was just as much of a danger as the other two, in terms of being caught and forced to reveal what he knew. The only thing that makes sense is someone who could vanish back into the household regulars.
I’ve not seen “II” in a while, so I popped it in the DVD and watched the relevant scenes.
Michael as much says to Tom that he’s sure it’s an inside job, as you describe, so your scenario makes sense from that standpoint.
Tactically, and strategically:
Flipping part of the Corleone’s Household Security shouldn’t be that easy; Michael is smart enough to buy loyalty, and ensure that his people (the ones who would be close enough to kill him, or his family, at any moment) are the type that stay bought.
Given that, any member of the Household Security Force who wasn’t where they were supposed to be at the time of the shooting would come under immediate suspicion. That would include whatever “security guard” may have clipped the two “shooters.”
Judging from the movie, anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds pass between the shooting and the front gates being closed, and the compound lights being turned on. The property itself is lakefront property. The dogs are kept in a kennel; they were only released after the shooting. There’s no on-screen evidence that the night patrol had dogs with them (a serious oversight, IMO).
A “commando” type group could’ve infiltrated the compound and done the deed. Say, three men in a black rubber inflateable, with an electric outboard; the compound lights are out, and it’s a rainy night. Two shooters go in, one man holds the boat. Unbeknowst to the “shooters,” the “boatman” has orders (say, from Johnny Ola) to kill the two “shooters” when they return to the boat. He does so, gets in his boat, and putt-putts off into the night before the Security Force can get the motorboat out and start patrolling the shoreline (which we see happen in the movie).
The crew on the motorboat are also seen to be pointing the searchlight in towards the shore, not out into the lake. Our hypothetical commando “boatman” could be well on his way with the cover of night, dark clothing, and rain to keep him covered.
Strategically, it also makes a kind of sense to do it that way.
Let Michael (or his minions) chase shadows and nonexistent traitors in their own ranks while you quietly dispose of the “boatman” as well. Only you, as Hyman Roth, and Johnny Ola, ever know that anything took place “from your end.”
In the movie, the responsibility for the hit was Fredo’s, according to Michael, and above him, Roth’s. I don’t think the actual triggerman was ever idientified.
The bodies (IIRC) were found in a culvert pipe. I assume that the pipe was part of their access route into the compound. My thinking is: the gunmen were dropped off, they attacked, rendezvoused back at the culvert, their ride took care of them and drove off.
An insider was needed to provide info on the compound layout and someone to leave the curtains open. While Fredo’s later confession suggests he did the first part, the latter probably couldn’t have been done by Fredo since he sincerely believed it wasn’t going to be a hit. (But he was a huge idiot for thinking that the info he was providing didn’t compromise security.) Perhaps a naive, financially strapped maid?
So, probably at least an outside guy to do the driving and cleanup, and someone on the inside to open the curtains.
Here’s my issue with the events as the appeared to happen.
The only reason I can think of to hit the two hitters, is so they can’t be forced to ell who ordered the hit on Michael.
But the guy who hit the hitters has the exact same risk attached to him. He too should have been hit.
But if he could be assured to escape, so could the first two, so they all should have left.
And if the first two hitters were hit later, somewhere else, the third hitter could have carried out the hit in blissful ignorance of the hit on Michael. He would just have been told to kill these two guys at such and such a place and time. He would therefor not be at risk of disclosing any information about the hit on Michael because he wouldn’t need to know about it.
Well may I ask a second GF 2 question involving Michael and assassination?
When Pentangeli is about to get strangled in the bar, the would-be assassin says something along the lines of “Michael Corleone says hello.”
This has always bothered me.
We know later that Michael did NOT order the hit and that it was actually Hyman Roth.
So why did the assassin say it was from Michael? His intent was clearly to kill Pentangeli and the only reason he didn’t was because a cop happened to wander into the bar. So was this line intended as a safeguard in the event that the assassination doesn’t fully take or was he just messing with a soon-to-be-dead-guy?
I always assumed that it was a phony attempt, that Pentangeli was supposed to get away and be primed to betray Michael. But I assumed this only because of the later dialog that established Michael didn’t order it. I don’t remember enough of the scene’s details now to tell how realistic this interpretation is.
On IMDB, it said that this line was ad-libbed by the actor and Coppola liked it and asked him to keep it.
So then basically some no-name bit actor who was on the set for this one shoot decided to improvise a line he thinks a tough guy might have said not knowing how the rest of the story is to play out yet Coppola –who presumably did- let the ad-lib ride causing much confusion for first-time viewers and then figures all others can ignore the line upon second or multiple viewings.
Alrighty then.
It’s a little confusing at first, but it does fit in with what happens with the rest of the script. It’s not hard to imagine that Hyman Roth told the hitmen like…
“And make it look like it’s a Corleone hit… I don’t know, mention his name in front of reliable witnesses or something.”
And the reason why? Because if he’s going after Michael, why not sow discord and distrust among his Family? If Pantangeli is killed, Michael is weakened. If Michael is seen as the one that order the hit, so much the better!
If the IMDB is true, sounds like the guy either
a. read the entire script and caught the gist of what was happening, or,
b. got lucky.
good thread. This just occurred to me: what wasn’t Michael’s kindly “Jewish uncle” (Hyman Roth) at Michael’s son’s first communion party? That slimey Senator Geray-man what a snake he was…intoducing the Corleone family as the salt of the earth-then trying to shake Michael down.
Incidentally- was Lake Tahoe a good place to dump bodies (deep, cold, with lots of rocks on the bottom)?
Yeah, what JohnT said.
As for Roth not being at the communion…poor health?
It’s average depth is around 1,000ft, so anything dumped well offshore is unlikely to be found. But the water is quite clear (especially 50 years ago), so dumping close to shore would be a bad idea.
I’ll ask Fredo the next time I see him.
Grumpy: I’m betting The Joker told you to kill me soon as we loaded the cash.
The Joker: No. No, no, no. I kill the bus driver.
Grumpy: Bus driver? What bus driver?
[a school bus drives through the wall and kills Grumpy]