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  #1  
Old 11-30-2008, 11:05 PM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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How was homosexuality handled in ancient mayan tribes?

Ok, I was watching the movie Apocalypto and was thinking to myself, "I wonder how or if homosexuality was taking place among certain tribe members back then and if so, how did the other tribe members view it?" Were they punished if caught? Killed? Were they sat down before their elders and scolded or was it just plain, old allowed?
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2008, 03:38 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is online now
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As far as I'm aware (and granted, most of this is from Spanish accounts) it was frequent, not stigmatised, possibly had ritual aspects to it, and also may have had a slavery/dominance aspect. But most of that is from offline sources I don't really have access to now, so I'm being a bad GQ replier.

I do know that other pre-Columbian cultures varied in their treatment. Certainly, going by their pottery, the South American Moche were quite...liberal.
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2008, 11:29 AM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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I see. I figured it was either shunned completely or highly practiced.
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2008, 11:50 AM
chowder chowder is offline
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I've no doubt that homosexuality has existed in all cultures throughout time including Mayans

Soon as man realised "Hey, I wonder if my dong will fit in your ass"

"Dunno, wanna try it, just for kicks?"
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2008, 03:45 PM
Illuminatiprimus Illuminatiprimus is offline
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Originally Posted by chowder View Post
I've no doubt that homosexuality has existed in all cultures throughout time including Mayans

Soon as man realised "Hey, I wonder if my dong will fit in your ass"

"Dunno, wanna try it, just for kicks?"
Or indeed man said "I've always wondered what sucking penis is like, mind if I have a go on yours?"

"Sure, go ahead - whoah! You're way better at this than my wife, keep going!"
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2008, 04:05 PM
Dr. Drake Dr. Drake is offline
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Just a drive-by post to point out that same-sex orientation (primary or exclusive attraction to someone of the same sex) is a completely different question from same-sex behavior (sexual contact with someone of the same sex). The latter does not necessarily indicate the former, but it is usually all we get in European historical sources.

Last edited by Dr. Drake; 12-02-2008 at 04:05 PM..
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2008, 07:14 PM
seodoa seodoa is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. Drake View Post
Just a drive-by post to point out that same-sex orientation (primary or exclusive attraction to someone of the same sex) is a completely different question from same-sex behavior (sexual contact with someone of the same sex). The latter does not necessarily indicate the former, but it is usually all we get in European historical sources.
This. This is important. Living in Japan you see this a lot. Many of the people one might call "gay" in the US are just normally heterosexual guys who, for lack of anything better to do, I guess, rub their wieners together. I am not going to presume to comment for all of Western Civilization, but certainly in the US there is widespread belief that having sexual contact with someone of the same sex is equivalent to identifying with homosexuality.


Everybody knows that it's not gay unless balls are touching.
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2008, 02:08 AM
Illuminatiprimus Illuminatiprimus is offline
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Originally Posted by seodoa View Post
This. This is important. Living in Japan you see this a lot. Many of the people one might call "gay" in the US are just normally heterosexual guys who, for lack of anything better to do, I guess, rub their wieners together. I am not going to presume to comment for all of Western Civilization, but certainly in the US there is widespread belief that having sexual contact with someone of the same sex is equivalent to identifying with homosexuality.


Everybody knows that it's not gay unless balls are touching.
Indeed, I find myself having to go to great lengths to outline this point to people sometimes. Western/Judeo-Christian-Islamic society has done itself a great disservice by fusing together same sex attraction and same sex activity
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2008, 10:30 AM
Antinor01 Antinor01 is offline
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Originally Posted by seodoa View Post
This. This is important. Living in Japan you see this a lot. Many of the people one might call "gay" in the US are just normally heterosexual guys who, for lack of anything better to do, I guess, rub their wieners together. I am not going to presume to comment for all of Western Civilization, but certainly in the US there is widespread belief that having sexual contact with someone of the same sex is equivalent to identifying with homosexuality.
This concept really confuses me. I could understand if it was perhaps a one time thing, but from your description it sounds like these guys are sexually involved with other guys on a more or less regular basis. How does that not make them gay or bi? I just can't wrap my head around the idea of a guy seeking out sex with another guy and being hetero.

As a gay guy would you not classify me as bi if I ran around having sex with women?
(perhaps this line of question would be better suited for another forum)

Last edited by Antinor01; 12-03-2008 at 10:31 AM..
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2008, 10:44 AM
gladtobeblazed gladtobeblazed is offline
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Originally Posted by Antinor01 View Post
This concept really confuses me. I could understand if it was perhaps a one time thing, but from your description it sounds like these guys are sexually involved with other guys on a more or less regular basis. How does that not make them gay or bi? I just can't wrap my head around the idea of a guy seeking out sex with another guy and being hetero.

As a gay guy would you not classify me as bi if I ran around having sex with women?
(perhaps this line of question would be better suited for another forum)
I have sex with my hand all the time, but I'm not attracted to hands. So I guess it's possible to have sex with someone of the same gender on a regular basis but not be attracted to them (i.e. homosexual).
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2008, 11:16 AM
Dr. Drake Dr. Drake is offline
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Originally Posted by Antinor01 View Post
This concept really confuses me. I could understand if it was perhaps a one time thing, but from your description it sounds like these guys are sexually involved with other guys on a more or less regular basis. How does that not make them gay or bi? I just can't wrap my head around the idea of a guy seeking out sex with another guy and being hetero.

As a gay guy would you not classify me as bi if I ran around having sex with women?
(perhaps this line of question would be better suited for another forum)
It really depends on the culture. A lot of Latin cultures consider the penetratee gay, but not the penetrator, but Americans would consider both men gay. The range of sexual behaviors is pretty standard culture to culture, but the divisions and classifications vary wildly.
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2008, 11:20 AM
Antinor01 Antinor01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. Drake View Post
It really depends on the culture. A lot of Latin cultures consider the penetratee gay, but not the penetrator, but Americans would consider both men gay. The range of sexual behaviors is pretty standard culture to culture, but the divisions and classifications vary wildly.
Odd. It seems the simplest would be, has sex with just the same gender, homosexual, has sex with both genders, bisexual, has sex with just the opposite gender, heterosexual. We really complicate things way too much.
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2008, 11:49 AM
Dr. Drake Dr. Drake is offline
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Yes, well, remember that we live in a culture where if you're a male florist or hairdresser, you're widely considered to be gay. As far as I can tell, neither of those occupations has any human* sexual behavior involved. It's just that any man doing tasks traditionally delegated to women gets labeled gay, even if that delegation is arbitrary, in part because it's easier to make assumptions based on behavior you do see than grilling people about their sexual habits. And in part just because of ignorance, of course.

[*This for the smartass who was going to explain about flowers and plant reproduction]
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2008, 11:56 AM
Antinor01 Antinor01 is offline
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That I agree with and I find the assumption that a persons non-sexual job has anything to do with their being straight or gay is ridiculous.

Perhaps I misinterpreted what seodoa was saying, but I took it to mean that these were guys who regularly had sex with other guys but are 'normally heterosexual'. That creates a massive disconnect in my brain.

Last edited by Antinor01; 12-03-2008 at 11:56 AM..
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2008, 12:12 PM
Dr. Drake Dr. Drake is offline
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Originally Posted by Antinor01 View Post
...but I took it to mean that these were guys who regularly had sex with other guys but are 'normally heterosexual'. That creates a massive disconnect in my brain.
Replace that with "nominally heterosexual" and it works better. They tell themselves they are straight; the rest of society agrees to go along with it until they do something really gay, like kiss. Think Senator Craig or whatever his name was. He would probably say he was straight, and may even believe it.
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2008, 12:16 PM
Antinor01 Antinor01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. Drake View Post
Replace that with "nominally heterosexual" and it works better. They tell themselves they are straight; the rest of society agrees to go along with it until they do something really gay, like kiss. Think Senator Craig or whatever his name was. He would probably say he was straight, and may even believe it.
Meh. I get that other people seem to believe that sort of fantasy, but I still find it pathetically stupid.

Though the latin culture explanation makes a little sense, LA is chock full of 'straight' guys that are out searching for dick all the time and it seems a lot of them are from various latin cultures. (then there is the close relative of that term "straight-acting" which I equally hate, but that's a different topic)

Last edited by Antinor01; 12-03-2008 at 12:20 PM..
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2008, 12:44 PM
Yorikke Yorikke is offline
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Originally Posted by seodoa View Post

Everybody knows that it's not gay unless balls are touching.
That's utterly ridiculous, and a harmful thing to say.

Everybody knows that it's not gay unless there's eye contact.

Joe
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2008, 04:46 PM
jackdavinci jackdavinci is offline
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According to wikipedia:

Quote:
Homosexual and transgender individuals were also common among other pre-conquest civilizations in Latin America, such as the Aztecs, Mayans, Quechas, Moches, Zapotecs, and the Tupinambá of Brazil.[35][36]

The Spanish conquerors were horrified to discover "sodomy" openly practiced among native peoples, and attempted to crush it out by subjecting the berdaches (as the Spanish called them) under their rule to severe penalties, including public execution and burning. In a famous example of cruelty against homosexuals, in 1513 the conquistador Vasco Núñez de Balboa

discovered that the village of Quarequa [in modern-day Panama] was stained by the foulest vice. The king’s brother and a number of other courtiers were dressed as women, and according to the accounts of the neighbours shared the same passion. Vasco ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs. The Spaniards commonly used their dogs in fighting against these naked people, and the dogs threw themselves upon them as though they were wild boars on timid deer.[37]
Sources:
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences..._colonial.html
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/mexico.html
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2008, 05:15 PM
Illuminatiprimus Illuminatiprimus is offline
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Ahhhhh the Spanish - is there any kind of fun they can't outlaw?
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:23 PM
jackdavinci jackdavinci is offline
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Originally Posted by Illuminatiprimus View Post
Ahhhhh the Spanish - is there any kind of fun they can't outlaw?
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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  #21  
Old 12-03-2008, 10:32 PM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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I see things in black and white myself. If you're a man and you suck dong or insert it into your anal cavity and vice versa, you are either gay or bi. There is no scale that goes from 1 to 5 in gayness, not in my world. If you think so, read my former statement. Now, back to my question. lol
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2008, 11:29 PM
Antinor01 Antinor01 is offline
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Originally Posted by diggleblop View Post
I see things in black and white myself. If you're a man and you suck dong or insert it into your anal cavity and vice versa, you are either gay or bi. There is no scale that goes from 1 to 5 in gayness, not in my world. If you think so, read my former statement. Now, back to my question. lol
Sorry about the hijack there.
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2008, 11:38 PM
Dunderman Dunderman is offline
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Originally Posted by Antinor01 View Post
Odd. It seems the simplest would be, has sex with just the same gender, homosexual, has sex with both genders, bisexual, has sex with just the opposite gender, heterosexual. We really complicate things way too much.
Yeah, we do. The actually simplest would be "have sex with whomever, call yourself whatever, who cares".
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