Tautologies in songs

[Spatial Rift 47]

Song lyrics, being primarily a device to counterpoint instrumentals, are often nonsensical, frequently sexual, and very rarely profound. Sometimes to avoid having to say something, the songwriter will say nothing at all - a tautology. I was just listening to "All You Need Is Love" by (of course) The Beatles, when the following lines came up:

There's nothing you can do that can't be done
There's nothing you can sing that can't be sung

(snip)

There's nothing you can make that can't be made
No one you can save that can't be saved

All of which are trivially true, regardless of whether or not love is all one needs.

Share some of your favorite musical tautologies!

[robardin]

Nirvana made it megabig with deepness like "All in all, is all we are".

[Bryan Ekers]

Que Sera, Sera
Whatever will be, will be...


Thanks, Doris. That's very helpful.

[Bytegeist]

In the Vietnam War song For What It's Worth is the lyric, "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong."

Who can argue with that?

[Peter Morris]

We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here
We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here ...

(sung to the tune of Auld Lang Syne)

[WordMan]

would "Same as it ever was" count as a tautology?

Or "So hot you're cool, so cool you're hot"??

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by Spatial Rift 47

There's nothing you can do that can't be done
There's nothing you can sing that can't be sung

(snip)

There's nothing you can make that can't be made
No one you can save that can't be saved

All of which are trivially true, regardless of whether or not love is all one needs.

Share some of your favorite musical tautologies!

Some tautologies are essentially meaningless 5=5 affairs, but others serve as reminders or emphases of what should be obvious but what often isn't. For example:

"Your life is your own" is meaningless in that obviously the 'your' already gives the life an owner, making the predicate redundant. However, it's an emphasis of the ownership, perhaps used in situations where someone is trying to control your life or live through you. Thus it's not a useless statement, as it could sometimes be used to convey real meaning.

[Shoeless]

Dire Straits "Industrial Disease":

Two men say they're Jesus
One of them must be wrong

[Spatial Rift 47]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

Some tautologies are essentially meaningless 5=5 affairs, but others serve as reminders or emphases of what should be obvious but what often isn't. For example:

"Your life is your own" is meaningless in that obviously the 'your' already gives the life an owner, making the predicate redundant. However, it's an emphasis of the ownership, perhaps used in situations where someone is trying to control your life or live through you. Thus it's not a useless statement, as it could sometimes be used to convey real meaning.

I agree, an obvious statement can be emphasized without being a tautology. If you're saying that my examples fall into that category, I disagree. John Lennon wasn't saying anything about what I can do except that it can be done.

[Acsenray]

I disagree with some of the examples offered.

The literal tautologies in "All You Need Is Love" and "For What It's Worth" are actually intended to communicate a meaningful message, not just fill in the meter.

Originally Posted by Spatial Rift 47

I agree, an obvious statement can be emphasized without being a tautology. If you're saying that my examples fall into that category, I disagree. John Lennon wasn't saying anything about what I can do except that it can be done.

He was offering you a particular viewpoint about life.

[HMS Irruncible]

"in this everchanging world in which we live in...live and let die..."

[olivesmarch4th]

Originally Posted by robardin

Nirvana made it megabig with deepness like "All in all, is all we are".

Really? I thought it was ''all alone is all we are.''

As someone who has come to expect well-articulated, meaningful song lyrics from Nirvana, I am outraged! If you need me I'll be out back planting a house... building a tree... finding my nest of salt...

[Spatial Rift 47]

Originally Posted by acsenray

He was offering you a particular viewpoint about life.

Personally, I would say specifying some things someone can do is a viewpoint about life, not "you can do what you can do". But in the interests of returning to the original purpose of the thread, let's agree to disagree on that one. I will expand the original idea: share your favorite tautological song lyrics, even if you have to disregard any implied or contextual meaning to consider them a tautology.

[olivesmarch4th]

Okay, so to try to answer Spatial Rift's question, would Rush's Roll the Bones qualify?

Why are we here?
Because we're here.

Why does it happen?
Because it happens.

[Lamia]

I don't think this is quite a tautology, but from The Turtles' "So Happy Together" presents the same statement twice in a row with slightly different word order: "The only one for me is you, and you for me". So "you" are for "me", and also "you" are for "me". Nothing about "me" being for "you"!

The singer also says "Me and you, and you and me" several times, but I'd consider that just for emphasis.

I have heard that this song was actually meant as kind of a joke, and that's why the lyrics are so inane. Not sure if that's true, though.

[Furious_Marmot]

Originally Posted by olivesmarch4th

Really? I thought it was ''all alone is all we are.''

As someone who has come to expect well-articulated, meaningful song lyrics from Nirvana, I am outraged! If you need me I'll be out back planting a house... building a tree... finding my nest of salt...

I don't even care, but you could have all three.

[Snooooopy]

Originally Posted by Shoeless

Dire Straits "Industrial Disease":

Two men say they're Jesus
One of them must be wrong

I dunno, if there were anyone who would have the power to clone himself, it would be Jesus.

His enemies would wind up yelling, "Aw, Jesus Christs!"

[Meurglys]

Curved Air, quite possibly from It Happened Today (I get some of their tracks mixed up; it's been awhile!)

I tell you, time will tell in time.

[Sir Prize]

Originally Posted by olivesmarch4th

Okay, so to try to answer Spatial Rift's question, would Rush's Roll the Bones qualify?

Why are we here?
Because we're here.

Why does it happen?
Because it happens.

No. There are alternative answers. e.g., we are here for a purpose and it happens because God says so.

[Randy Seltzer]

Re: "All You Need is Love." In college, I took Intro to Symbolic Logic, and we would have these assignments where we would be given symbolic statements and would have to "translate" them into normal language. Most of them were like "If all my skis are blue, then some of the salmon are certified public accountants." The professor had a bit of a sense of humor. Most assignments were about ten statements.

Then one day, he handed out an assignment that was 50 statements long. Everyone grumbled but dutifully completed it that night. It turned out to be the entire Beatles song, "All You Need is Love." A lot of students were unfamiliar with the song, so had to slog through the whole thing, never realizing what they were writing. But it was interesting to see that the whole thing could be written out with symbolic logic.

Re: the OP. How about REM's "Stand"?

Stand in the place where you are (now face north)
Stand in the place where you are (now face west)
Your feet are going to be on the ground (stand in the place where you are)
Your head is there to move you around, so stand.

[olivesmarch4th]

Originally Posted by Randy Seltzer

Re: the OP. How about REM's "Stand"?

I often find myself wondering what they've got against East and South. I bought one of their anthology albums and in the liner notes on this song they describe it as on of their most blatantly silly.

Your feet are going to be on the ground
Your head is there to move you around

Or the preferred version of many,

The tab is there to open the can
The can is there to hold the Spam in

Both songs are about equally meaningful. But it's just a lovely little tune.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I always took the Lennon lines in "All You Need Is Love" to be bascically a shorthand way of saying there's nothing you can do/say/sing that hasn't already been done/said/sung. I think that's more clear in the 2nd verse-- "There's nothing you can show that isn't shown / Nothing you can know that isn't known..."

Of course, I think he was also doing a lot of acid at that time and those are exactly the kinds of lines that sound profound while you're tripping balls, so I wouldn't rule out that possibility either.

[RealityChuck]

In Andy Williams's "The Holiday Season":

"When old Santa gets into town
He'll be coming down the chimney, down."

It works, but it's obviously a tautology.

[Celyn]

Mike Oldfield and Maggie Reily, Moonlight Shadow has the line

Four AM in the morning

Grrrrrrrrrrr!

[Vox Imperatoris]

Not really tautologies, but I did think of An Apple a Day by Aqua.

Originally Posted by Aqua

Just don't miss the water
Until the well is dry
You got to learn walking
After you can fly
Come and get me

What goes in, will get out
What goes up, comes right down
We go up, we go up, we go up

You know an apple a day
Won't keep the doctor away
We're never taught what we teach
And won't practice what we preach
You know an apple a day
Won't keep my troubles away
Once bitten bye, bye
All the cliches here to die

Except that it incorrectly calls proverbs "cliches" throughout the whole song.

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

[Kobal2]

Not a tautology, but the French lyrics to the Varshavianka make me cringe every single time.

The last lines of the first verse go (translation mine) : "The human race must rally under only one flag and have only one watchword : Labor and Justice, Solidarity between all workers !". THAT'S THREE, DAMMIT !

[Vox Imperatoris]

Around the World (La La La La La) by ATC. The lyrics mean absolutely nothing!

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

[Biggirl]

The Chi-Lite's Have You Seen Her (a favorite song of mine) contains the meter filling line:

"Why, oh why did she have to leave and go away."

Both leave and go away? At the same time? Why that's. . . obvious.

[biqu]

No Such Thing, by John Mayer, has this line:

"I am invincible as long as I'm alive."

[DooWahDiddy]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Relief

"in this everchanging world in which we live in...live and let die..."

You're joking, right?

I know it's supposed to be poetic, but I hate it when songs use "forever and a day".

[AHunter3]

I have it on good authority from Jerry Reed that when you're hot, you're hot; whereas when you're not, you're not

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by olivesmarch4th

Okay, so to try to answer Spatial Rift's question, would Rush's Roll the Bones qualify?

Why are we here?
Because we're here.

Why does it happen?
Because it happens.

Again, though, those are deliberate repetitions. They're emphasis, not tautology.

"We need to create a plan forward" is a tautology; it's not at all distinct from "We need to create a plan." ("This ever-changing world in which we live in" is both tautological and retarded.) "Why are we here? Because we're here" delivers a message substantially different from "We're here."

[HMS Irruncible]

Originally Posted by DooWahDiddy

You're joking, right?

I know it's supposed to be poetic, but I hate it when songs use "forever and a day".

*sigh* okay, I'll draw you a picture:

"in this everchanging world in which we live in...live and let die...":

There are 3 'in's in the sentence above. Two is pushing it, but necessary to include the cliche "in this everchanging world". But no.... in order to establish that we're talking about the world in which we live (as opposed to the world in which we do not live), McCartney uses three 'in's.

[Vox Imperatoris]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Relief

*sigh* okay, I'll draw you a picture:

"in this everchanging world in which we live in...live and let die...":

There are 3 'in's in the sentence above. Two is pushing it, but necessary to include the cliche "in this everchanging world". But no.... in order to establish that we're talking about the world in which we live (as opposed to the world in which we do not live), McCartney uses three 'in's.

The *sigh* should be directed at you. You are pushing a well-known accusation of amateur grammarians. The song actually says "in this ever-changing world in which we're living". He thought you were joking because this is rebutted so frequently.

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Vox Imperatoris

The *sigh* should be directed at you. You are pushing a well-known accusation of amateur grammarians. The song actually says "in this ever-changing world in which we're living". He thought you were joking because this is rebutted so frequently.

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

That's still one too many "in's."

[HMS Irruncible]

Originally Posted by Vox Imperatoris

The *sigh* should be directed at you. You are pushing a well-known accusation of amateur grammarians. The song actually says "in this ever-changing world in which we're living". He thought you were joking because this is rebutted so frequently.

I don't know about frequently; I've been on this board for 4 years and I've never once seen the question come up. And I don't know about "amateur grammarian" because it's quite valid to point out that the words as I posted them are horrible. And finally, before posting I googled the lyrics a few times to ensure I was representing them correctly, and the first 10 sites all had them identical to what I posted. Of course the internet is rife with mistakes, and I'll accept correction if I've made an error. But I'd like to see a cite that the lyrics are what you say they are.

And as Dio said, that's still one 'in' too many.

[De La Rue]

Ah, but it's "if this ever-changing world in which we're living".

I've heard a song that goes "It is what it is." The speaker then asks what it is.

[olivesmarch4th]

Originally Posted by RickJay

Again, though, those are deliberate repetitions. They're emphasis, not tautology.

"We need to create a plan forward" is a tautology; it's not at all distinct from "We need to create a plan." ("This ever-changing world in which we live in" is both tautological and retarded.) "Why are we here? Because we're here" delivers a message substantially different from "We're here."

I think I understand now. Just can't think of anything that applies.

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by Vox Imperatoris

Except that it incorrectly calls proverbs "cliches" throughout the whole song.

Those look like cliches to me. In fact, I think that's sort of the point.

[BrainGlutton]

Go to the bottom of this page and click on "Belabouring the Obvious" (MP3).

[Spoons]

Originally Posted by Lamia

I have heard that this song [The Turtles' "Happy Together"] was actually meant as kind of a joke, and that's why the lyrics are so inane. Not sure if that's true, though.

Well, the singer is going on about how they were meant for each other forever, and how he can't imagine loving anybody else in his life--but then he throws in the trite question, "How is the weather?" which kind of makes the listener wonder just how serious the singer was with his sentiments.

FWIW, I seem to recall the Turtles took very little seriously. For example, their song "Elinore" contained the line, "You're my pride and joy et cetera" which you don't expect to hear in a love song (today's equivalent would be saying, "Yeah, I love you, yada, yada, yada"); while "She'd Rather Be With Me" started off like any other pop song but towards the end, went for the laughs in timing. I almost expect silly sound effects to be incorporated. And when I caught Flo and Eddie (the 80s incarnation of the Turtles) in an oldies revival about twenty years ago, they sure weren't taking themselves seriously.

[BrainGlutton]

Bewildered, Bewildered, you have no complaint
You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't
So listen up, Buster, and listen up good,
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood
Signed, Dear Abbey

[DooWahDiddy]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Relief

I don't know about frequently; I've been on this board for 4 years and I've never once seen the question come up. And I don't know about "amateur grammarian" because it's quite valid to point out that the words as I posted them are horrible. And finally, before posting I googled the lyrics a few times to ensure I was representing them correctly, and the first 10 sites all had them identical to what I posted. Of course the internet is rife with mistakes, and I'll accept correction if I've made an error. But I'd like to see a cite that the lyrics are what you say they are.

And as Dio said, that's still one 'in' too many.

http://www.kovideo.net/lyrics/g/Guns...d-Let-Die.html

If that doesn't do it for you, maybe you can just listen to the song. The line that follows it is "Makes you give in and cry". Wouldn't make much sense to say "But in this ever changing world makes you give in and cry", would it?

It's pretty clear he's saying "But if this ever-changing world in which we're livin' makes you give in and cry, say live and let die."

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by DooWahDiddy

It's pretty clear he's saying "But if this ever-changing world in which we're livin' makes you give in and cry, say live and let die."

I don't know about the Guns 'N Roses version, but, I've queued the original song up, listened to that line over and over and no, it's not clear. There's no "r" sound there that you'd need for "we're."

Millions of people don't hear what you say is "pretty clear," which suggests it's not. The first part is definitely "But IF this," that I buy. The last part absolutely does sound like "in which we live in." There's nothing there that sounds like "we're livin," not either time it's sung.

Nothing wrong with my ears. If Sir Paul meant to sing "in which we're livin'," he should have taken the marbles out of his mouth.

[DooWahDiddy]

*shrug* I have no idea why people get so worked up over this. I can't help it if you're not hearing what he's saying, but what I meant by "pretty clear" is that the following line makes it pretty clear. It wouldn't even be artistic license to make a sentence like "In this everchanging world in which we live in, makes you give in and cry.". It just wouldn't be English.

I was referring to the fact that Cosmic Relief used an ellipsis and left out the important part, one that might help him (and you) realize the true line.

[astorian]

Originally Posted by Spoons

FWIW, I seem to recall the Turtles took very little seriously. For example, their song "Elinore" contained the line, "You're my pride and joy et cetera" which you don't expect to hear in a love song (today's equivalent would be saying, "Yeah, I love you, yada, yada, yada"); while "She'd Rather Be With Me" started off like any other pop song but towards the end, went for the laughs in timing. I almost expect silly sound effects to be incorporated. And when I caught Flo and Eddie (the 80s incarnation of the Turtles) in an oldies revival about twenty years ago, they sure weren't taking themselves seriously.

Remember also that "Elinore" appeared on an album called "Battle of the Bands," an album on which the Turtles lampooned the sounds of 12 different pop or rock artists.

"Elinore," as I understand it, was written as a parody of the Turtles themselves!

[Bacon Salt]

Gnarls Barkley- Neighbors
"But no matter where you go, there you are"

Methinks Brian needed a pithy phrase that rhymed with car.

[Sublight]

Originally Posted by RickJay

I don't know about the Guns 'N Roses version, but, I've queued the original song up, listened to that line over and over and no, it's not clear. There's no "r" sound there that you'd need for "we're."

Millions of people don't hear what you say is "pretty clear," which suggests it's not. The first part is definitely "But IF this," that I buy. The last part absolutely does sound like "in which we live in." There's nothing there that sounds like "we're livin," not either time it's sung.

Nothing wrong with my ears. If Sir Paul meant to sing "in which we're livin'," he should have taken the marbles out of his mouth.

But if it's not clear which one he's saying, why make the assumption that Paul's saying the one that makes no sense?