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  #1  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:00 AM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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The pedophile's wife

Bit of a situation my wife's in - the wife of a known (convicted) pedo, in our neighbourhood, attends a weekly support group my wife and some friends jsut started going to. She couldn't remember her specifically at first, but seeing her a second time confirmed it. The thing is, her husband used her profession to gain access to some kids - and she either never saw any signs, and forgave him anyways, or saw signs, ingnored them, and forgives him - meaning, they are apparantly still together (and, obviously, still in the neighbourhood). One of our kids, though not one of the victims, did attend her place temporarily for a week.

What's she to feel/think, morally? She's fuming, and has (irrational?) ideas of putting up a poster warning members of this group that there's a pedo's spouse here ... to openly confronting her, to (more rationally) just quitting this group - though it is helping her, and that seems unfair.

I suppose the mature thing to do is to just suck it up and ignore it - she committed no crime. Morally, in our opinion, she's culpable for wither being way too naive to see any signs and/or morally questionable by her association after the fact.

I personally have a hard time, but am unsur w hat to think, and a perhaps clouded by my emotions, too. I'd have a hard time keeping myself from going within earshot of her and exclaiming so everyone can hear "Are you still with XXX, that pedophile husband of yours? " or something to that effect...
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:07 AM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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So, you want to kick somebody clearly in need of support out of a support group for something her husband did?
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  #3  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:17 AM
Keweenaw Keweenaw is offline
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Are you making an assumption that they are still together, or do you know it for certain?

Is he incarcerated, or actually living in the neighborhood?
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  #4  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:19 AM
Calatin Calatin is offline
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Originally Posted by Zsofia View Post
So, you want to kick somebody clearly in need of support out of a support group for something her husband did?
I think the OP's issue isn't with the wife, but that the wife's position in a similar (if not identical) group was used for the pedophile to "enable" his behavior.

I think a lot of it comes down to whether or not the wife-in-question (the pedo's, not the OP's) was / is aware of the husband's behavior. I would imagine she would be, at this point, but I've heard of things far more bizarre.

Also, I think it might help to know what kind of support group this is. If it is a group for spouses of sexual offenders (putting the OP himself in a dubious position), then it wouldn't be proper to boot the W-I-Q.
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  #5  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:24 AM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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Originally Posted by Calatin View Post
I think the OP's issue isn't with the wife, but that the wife's position in a similar (if not identical) group was used for the pedophile to "enable" his behavior.

I think a lot of it comes down to whether or not the wife-in-question (the pedo's, not the OP's) was / is aware of the husband's behavior. I would imagine she would be, at this point, but I've heard of things far more bizarre.

Also, I think it might help to know what kind of support group this is. If it is a group for spouses of sexual offenders (putting the OP himself in a dubious position), then it wouldn't be proper to boot the W-I-Q.
Not identical group at all. At the risk of actually identifying, the pedo's wife ran a home day-care facility; my wife has seen her at a weight loss support group.

Might clarify some things...!

And, since he has been convicted, she absolutely does know about it now.
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:26 AM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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Originally Posted by Keweenaw View Post
Are you making an assumption that they are still together, or do you know it for certain?

Is he incarcerated, or actually living in the neighborhood?
1) Yes - the assumption based on my wife seeing her still wearing her rings, and tied in with the second answer...
2) Kind of both - very weak sentence involving him being under house arrest during the week (to enable working) and spending weekends in jail. The reasoning being that, since his wife is staying with him, and will lose her source of income, they need him to work.
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  #7  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:27 AM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is online now
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Support groups are very strange (I'm assuming you are talking about either professional or amatuer group therapy - something that could be AA or something that could be lead by a psychiatrist). They are there to SUPPORT people, not challenge them. If your wife isn't comfortable, she should leave and find another group.

I found much of my support group experience to be frustrating because so many of the people there were very comfortable in their victim roles. But support groups are not places to judge.

And they should be confidential. Neither you or your wife should bring this up to anyone. It isn't supportive.
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  #8  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:29 AM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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Okay - I think I got this off onto the wrong stream by calling it a support group - it's just a well-known weight-loss "group" setting... NOTHING AT ALL to do with the relationship to the pedo.
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  #9  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:49 AM
Khadaji Khadaji is offline
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Originally Posted by ThePylon View Post
Okay - I think I got this off onto the wrong stream by calling it a support group - it's just a well-known weight-loss "group" setting... NOTHING AT ALL to do with the relationship to the pedo.
You make a lot of assumptions about what the woman has or hasn't done, did or didn't know, and wish to give some sort of punishment. This is out of line.

Your wife should leave this group if she does not feel comfortable. It is not your place or hers to do anything.
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  #10  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:54 AM
dangermom dangermom is offline
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I really don't see what purpose could possibly be served by confronting the woman. I'm sure she already knows that her husband is a dirtbag and that everyone disapproves of him. (If she doesn't know that by now, nothing you say will change her mind.) Such a move in the setting you describe would be inappropriate.

If you can't stand being in the same room with her, though you seem to have no real knowledge of her circumstances, you should leave the group.
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  #11  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:56 AM
gigi gigi is offline
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Originally Posted by ThePylon View Post
Okay - I think I got this off onto the wrong stream by calling it a support group - it's just a well-known weight-loss "group" setting... NOTHING AT ALL to do with the relationship to the pedo.
So she sees her at Weight Watchers and is uncomfortable because she knows this information about her? Just like any gossip you know about someone that may make you not like them when you see them out and about?

If she can't get over it, she needs to go elsewhere. I don't go to parties where I know an local abortionist will be there*, and I am thinking of switching Weight Watchers meetings because of the kids and one particular member who goes when I do and makes involuntary noises that make me feel sick. It's up to me to choose a different meeting.


*privately I might tell someone why if they ask, but I don't go to the party anyway and then level an accusation at him

Last edited by gigi; 03-13-2009 at 11:57 AM.. Reason: typo
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:58 AM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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Originally Posted by Khadaji View Post
You make a lot of assumptions about what the woman has or hasn't done, did or didn't know, and wish to give some sort of punishment. This is out of line.

Your wife should leave this group if she does not feel comfortable. It is not your place or hers to do anything.
I'm curious - I don't think I've made any assumptions... just deductions?

What did I assume she has or hasn't done/did or didn't know? I wondered if she knew at the time, but I know she knew once he was convicted. The sentencing confirmed that she was staying with him.

Did I make any other assumptions?

I was leaning towards advising her of your conclusion, by the way.
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2009, 12:08 PM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is online now
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I side with the recent posters -- should the wife need to be branded with her husband's troubles, in a setting that has nothing to do with him? (Now, OTOH, you mention in one of your posts, that because of his troubles she is losing the job that provided access to children; and that does completely make reasonable sense.)

I understand that from some people's POV the only acceptable course of action for the convicted molester's family and friends is to just cast him out of their lives (part of the largely-held opinion that a molester's life should be made Hell to the point of suicide...), but I don't think that if they don't, and absent evidence of actual complicity IN THE CRIME, it's our role to take the next step to seek to make the family into pariahs.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 03-13-2009 at 12:13 PM..
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2009, 12:20 PM
Calatin Calatin is offline
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Originally Posted by ThePylon View Post
Not identical group at all. At the risk of actually identifying, the pedo's wife ran a home day-care facility; my wife has seen her at a weight loss support group.

And, since he has been convicted, she absolutely does know about it now.
I'm hoping that her husband's conviction precludes her from still running a daycare operation from her home...

I don't think it is necessarily proper that OP's wife should raise a huge ruckus about the pedophile's wife, but I know many friends with children who would greatly appreciate being "in the loop" as to his status before befriending the lady (and subsequently her husband) to a great degree. So as to head off a potential Pitting, let me clarify.

The friends I am referring to are the ones who are very keen on having "couple" friends, and as such, invite other couples over for dinner and the sort. Am I saying that you should become a social outcast for the actions of your spouse? No. But, in the same respect, if you stay with someone who commits a heinous crime, such as pedophilia, you have to be aware that you run the risk of some of the fall-out. (Insert tenuous "connection to Rihanna-backlash for getting back with Chris Brown" here)

So, IMHO, should your wife go around spreading flyers throughout the county, letting everyone and their dog know about this guy and his wife? No. Should your wife announce it to the members of an unrelated group as to why she doesn't feel like she (the OP's wife, not the pedo's wife) does not feel like she can remain in the group? No. Should your wife let those people know about the pedo and his wife if the friends start making plans for dinners, babysitting and the sort? Yes.
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  #15  
Old 03-13-2009, 12:26 PM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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Originally Posted by Calatin View Post
I'm hoping that her husband's conviction precludes her from still running a daycare operation from her home...
Oh, hell, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calatin View Post

I don't think it is necessarily proper that OP's wife should raise a huge ruckus about the pedophile's wife...
Just to clarify, again, my wife had NO PLANS TO DO THIS! We were just discussing - I was just looking for varied opinions - got 'em, Thanks!
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  #16  
Old 03-13-2009, 12:31 PM
Calatin Calatin is offline
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Just to clarify, again, my wife had NO PLANS TO DO THIS! We were just discussing - I was just looking for varied opinions - got 'em, Thanks!
Sorry, didn't mean to infer that you were. I was more just showing the varying options and my opinion on each of them (hence the whole "babysitting friends' children" comment, later).
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  #17  
Old 03-13-2009, 12:36 PM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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Sorry, didn't mean to infer that you were. I was more just showing the varying options and my opinion on each of them (hence the whole "babysitting friends' children" comment, later).
Erk - shouldn't have quoted you specifically - some earlier posters seemed to be concerned that I/she would actually do something like that...

Thanks.

Last edited by ThePylon; 03-13-2009 at 12:37 PM..
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  #18  
Old 03-13-2009, 12:47 PM
Khadaji Khadaji is offline
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Originally Posted by ThePylon View Post
I'm curious - I don't think I've made any assumptions... just deductions?

What did I assume she has or hasn't done/did or didn't know? I wondered if she knew at the time, but I know she knew once he was convicted. The sentencing confirmed that she was staying with him.

Did I make any other assumptions?

I was leaning towards advising her of your conclusion, by the way.
From your words:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePylon
<SNIP>Morally, in our opinion, she's culpable for wither being way too naive to see any signs <SNIP>
I have deduced that you assume that there were plenty of signs. I make the deduction that you assume there were signs and she should have known. For me you have made an assumption but you prefer the label deduction. Were you there? Do you know how many signs there were?

Your wife should quit the group and leave this woman alone. She has not committed and does not need your judgment nor punishment.
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  #19  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:03 PM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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Originally Posted by Khadaji View Post
From your words:
I have deduced that you assume that there were plenty of signs. I make the deduction that you assume there were signs and she should have known. For me you have made an assumption but you prefer the label deduction. Were you there? Do you know how many signs there were?

Your wife should quit the group and leave this woman alone. She has not committed and does not need your judgment nor punishment.

1) Morally, in our opinion, she's culpable for either being way too naive to see any signs and/or morally questionable by her association after the fact.

Sorry, in that context I don't see that as an assumption that she saw any signs - just an "if she had". If it is communicated that way, then I withdraw it.

2) My wife hasn't done a damn thing - I was looking for opinions, not what seems to be an accusation of harrassment. Then again, I guess I'm assuming that.
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  #20  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:08 PM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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I just think the woman probably needs compassion now, not torches and pitchforks.
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  #21  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:12 PM
Freudian Slit Freudian Slit is online now
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Is being naive a reason to be culpable now? I don't really how it can be your fault if you just honestly didn't know--you can be ignorant or even stupid, but I don't see culpable in there.
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  #22  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:14 PM
Hakuna Matata Hakuna Matata is offline
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Originally Posted by ThePylon View Post
1) Morally, in our opinion, she's culpable for either being way too naive to see any signs and/or morally questionable by her association after the fact.

Sorry, in that context I don't see that as an assumption that she saw any signs - just an "if she had". If it is communicated that way, then I withdraw it.

2) My wife hasn't done a damn thing - I was looking for opinions, not what seems to be an accusation of harrassment. Then again, I guess I'm assuming that.
You logic is wonky though. There are thousands of cases where someone is accused and convicted of a crime they didn't commit. Without knowing the circumstances of this particular case I can't judge it--but I do know that if "I" was to be convicted of something I didn't do, I would know that my wife would stand by my side. There was a series of cases just recently I read about here on the Dope about a pathologist whose testimony convicted all these people in Canada on child abuse--turns out he fabricated the testimony.

Now I am not saying the case against this guy is not true--it most likely is. But you are jumping from A to Z pretty fast.
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  #23  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:15 PM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is online now
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No, but she was considering these things and you were not sure yourself if they were rational.

There are a lot of reasons why a women might stick by a pedophile. I wouldn't, but I've met people who think marriage vows are so sacred that they have no choice. Its possible that she herself has been victimized into believing she does not deserve better, and sticks it out due to fear and shame.

If you and your wife feel the need to judge this woman, that's your business. But it isn't kind to let anyone else know and try and rally sentiment against her. Your wife and her friends can find another Weight Watchers meeting if they aren't comfortable, and if it just your wife, simply saying 'hey guys, there is a meeting on Tuesday, that works way better for me" would be the right thing to do.

Its perfectly ok to cut someone from your social circle because you disapprove of their behavior. However, it isn't right to try and convince others to do the same. That's where the line is drawn.
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  #24  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:18 PM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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Originally Posted by Hakuna Matata View Post
Now I am not saying the case against this guy is not true--it most likely is. But you are jumping from A to Z pretty fast.
He plead guilty, he told the details in court to confirm it, the sentence was not a deal; pretty much certain, no if-ands-or-buts about his guilt.

Last edited by ThePylon; 03-13-2009 at 01:18 PM..
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  #25  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:22 PM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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Is being naive a reason to be culpable now? I don't really how it can be your fault if you just honestly didn't know--you can be ignorant or even stupid, but I don't see culpable in there.
Ah - I see my flaw. I phrased it wrong. I suppose I am trying to say either she saw signs or didn't. If she did, then culpable in not doing anything. If not, he's sicne been convicted, therefore (and I see the reasoning behind arguing against this point), culpable in staying with him - but more in a "how can you spend decades as a child care provider and stay with this guy now?!?!?!" way. Though, as Dangerosa points out, there may be other reasons why...
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  #26  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:25 PM
Hakuna Matata Hakuna Matata is offline
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He plead guilty, he told the details in court to confirm it, the sentence was not a deal; pretty much certain, no if-ands-or-buts about his guilt.
Well there is that

But even with that, I can only speak for myself, I would just move on and find a different group if I was your wife. It still doesn't mean she 'knew' about it, and as pointed out above, some people take their marriage vows to an extreme and stand by their spouse regardless.

I just see nothing good out of spreading gossip--but to each their own. "SHE" wasn't convicted of anything. Hell if we are to be judged by our associations--some of the folks here at the SDMB would be questionable companions! Just my two cents.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:29 PM
Freudian Slit Freudian Slit is online now
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Ah - I see my flaw. I phrased it wrong. I suppose I am trying to say either she saw signs or didn't. If she did, then culpable in not doing anything. If not, he's sicne been convicted, therefore (and I see the reasoning behind arguing against this point), culpable in staying with him - but more in a "how can you spend decades as a child care provider and stay with this guy now?!?!?!" way. Though, as Dangerosa points out, there may be other reasons why...
Okay, true. But how do you know she is staying with him? If he's in jail...? Though I guess you mentioned she still wore her wedding ring.

ETA: Okay I read your post about the house arrest and such.

Last edited by Freudian Slit; 03-13-2009 at 01:29 PM..
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:36 PM
Dag Otto Dag Otto is online now
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but more in a "how can you spend decades as a child care provider and stay with this guy now?!?!?!" way.
A question that she has no obligation to answer. Especially to a woman who has ideas of putting up a poster specifically to defame and harass her.

I suspect that the woman has made some hard choices. May the OP and his wife find similar strength if they are tested in their marriage.
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  #29  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:45 PM
Khadaji Khadaji is offline
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Originally Posted by ThePylon View Post
1) Morally, in our opinion, she's culpable for either being way too naive to see any signs and/or morally questionable by her association after the fact.

Sorry, in that context I don't see that as an assumption that she saw any signs - just an "if she had". If it is communicated that way, then I withdraw it.
<SNIP>
Ah. My apologies for making bad deductions. It appears that this deduction business is not as straightforward as it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePylon View Post
<SNIP>
2) My wife hasn't done a damn thing - I was looking for opinions, not what seems to be an accusation of harrassment. Then again, I guess I'm assuming that.
No one has made any such accusations. In your words:
Quote:
I was looking for opinions
In my words:
Quote:
leave this woman alone
To help prevent any erroneous deductions I will spell it out more cleanly. In regards to the things you are thinking of doing it is my opinion that you should leave this woman alone. Or: Don't do any of the things you have said you were considering, not now, not in the future. Leave her alone.
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  #30  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:53 PM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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I'm going to stake out a different position here and say, yes, this particular woman should be held partially culpable, because of the specific circumstances. This isn't a case where the husband was abusing children without any way for her to know what was going on. She was running a daycare center, which her husband used to gain access to children to abuse. She was responsible for the children's safety, and failed miserably. The fact that she can continue to trust him in any way tells me she's more concerned with his future and his well being than for the children she failed to protect from him. So yes, I'd treat her as a pariah as well.
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  #31  
Old 03-13-2009, 01:58 PM
mswas mswas is offline
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Question was already answered.

Last edited by mswas; 03-13-2009 at 02:00 PM..
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  #32  
Old 03-13-2009, 02:56 PM
Keweenaw Keweenaw is offline
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1) Yes - the assumption based on my wife seeing her still wearing her rings, and tied in with the second answer...
2) Kind of both - very weak sentence involving him being under house arrest during the week (to enable working) and spending weekends in jail. The reasoning being that, since his wife is staying with him, and will lose her source of income, they need him to work.
That's an incredibly light sentence for a someone pleading guilty to pedophelia with multiple victims. Plus keeping him in a neighborhood with children, even under house arrest.
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:59 PM
ThePylon ThePylon is offline
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That's an incredibly light sentence for a someone pleading guilty to pedophelia with multiple victims. .
Conviction was based on 1 victim - was investigated for more.
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Plus keeping him in a neighborhood with children, even under house arrest.
Yup. Not happy 'bout that one.
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  #34  
Old 03-13-2009, 03:28 PM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is online now
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I'm going to stake out a different position here and say, yes, this particular woman should be held partially culpable, because of the specific circumstances. This isn't a case where the husband was abusing children without any way for her to know what was going on. She was running a daycare center, which her husband used to gain access to children to abuse. She was responsible for the children's safety, and failed miserably. The fact that she can continue to trust him in any way tells me she's more concerned with his future and his well being than for the children she failed to protect from him. So yes, I'd treat her as a pariah as well.
But there is a difference between leaving the group you have joined that she is in (treating her like a pariah) and forcing her out of the group through rallying others. Its perfectly acceptable for her to choose not to be in the same place as this woman, its bad form to ask others to choose sides.
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  #35  
Old 03-13-2009, 04:19 PM
Cat Fight Cat Fight is offline
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For the OP – How did you learn the details of the case? Was it only because one of your children came into contact with the man, or at least his wife? Is it possible the women in this group might find out on their own? I'm curious what this woman has to say when asked the usual 'getting to know you' questions ('What do you do?' 'Are you married?')
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  #36  
Old 03-13-2009, 04:32 PM
aruvqan aruvqan is offline
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So, IMHO, should your wife go around spreading flyers throughout the county, letting everyone and their dog know about this guy and his wife? No. Should your wife announce it to the members of an unrelated group as to why she doesn't feel like she (the OP's wife, not the pedo's wife) does not feel like she can remain in the group? No. Should your wife let those people know about the pedo and his wife if the friends start making plans for dinners, babysitting and the sort? Yes.
Well, since he was convicted, I would assume that it is pretty publically known that he is a pedo. I really dont think posters are the way to go about it, and if it is a weight loss group, what the fuck does that have to do with her husband if SHE is the one attending it? If the friend gets her panties in a bunch, then she needs to leave.

Look, the wife may or may not have known what was going on, but since she *wasnt* tried and found guilty, why the fuck punish her? She is the one that decided to stay with the guy, just like some abuse victims decide to stay with their abusers. I got out as quickly as I could, and am lucky ... but it would be like tormenting me because my SO was the abuser .. does *that* make sense?
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  #37  
Old 03-13-2009, 04:59 PM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
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Ok, I have no idea if I've interpreted the OP correctly, but here's what I've got:

Your wife is in a group with this guy's wife. There are no children there. THe woman lost her job as a daycare provider as part of his sentence (I'm pretty sure he's not allowed to be within X feet of children). So exactly what is the point of embarrassing this woman in front of her weight control group? Is your wife pissed off because the woman didn't leave her husband? What is her motivation?
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  #38  
Old 03-13-2009, 05:02 PM
Hello Again Hello Again is online now
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Is your wife pissed off because the woman didn't leave her husband? What is her motivation?
I would phrase it as the following:
Is your wife pissed off because the woman (who has no job and no means of support according to the court) didn't leave her husband?

Maybe she wishes she could leave but doesn't think she can do it when she has no money, no job and no way to get a job in the thing she knows how to do. Maybe she feels trapped. Ever think of that?

Last edited by Hello Again; 03-13-2009 at 05:04 PM..
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  #39  
Old 03-13-2009, 05:27 PM
Freudian Slit Freudian Slit is online now
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I feel kind of bad for the wife. Okay, if she knew and condoned it, that's wrong, but we don't know that. A few years ago, it came out that a teacher at my old high school had tried to seduce an underage girl and he ended up going to jail. He had a wife and a daughter around the same age as the girl he was going after, and I didn't know either of them but I felt really bad. Especially for the girl. I just couldn't imagine the pain of that. Someone you love doing something that, in most people's eyes, is unforgivable. And it's not so easy to just stop loving someone, even when they've done something this evil.

Putting up a poster isn't going to help. This woman's probably already in a world of hurt--I don't think she needs to feel worse.
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  #40  
Old 03-13-2009, 08:41 PM
Bam Boo Gut Bam Boo Gut is offline
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It would seem she's trying to pull herself together by attending this group. If she conciously or unconciously enabled the pedo having support to gain control of her self will help.
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  #41  
Old 03-13-2009, 10:39 PM
clairobscur clairobscur is offline
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I think the OP's neighbours, co-workers, and relatives should be warned that he stays with a wife who associates with a woman who is married to a pedophile.


Maybe I should leave this board before someone finds out I exchanged messages with the husband of the acquaintance of the wife of the pedophile.

Last edited by clairobscur; 03-13-2009 at 10:40 PM..
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  #42  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:14 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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Originally Posted by ThePylon View Post
Morally, in our opinion, she's culpable for wither being way too naive to see any signs and/or morally questionable by her association after the fact.
To be honest I would play safe and avoid your wife. Just in case she has caught paedophilia.
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  #43  
Old 03-14-2009, 12:22 AM
Seeker of Truth and Beauty Seeker of Truth and Beauty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
I think the OP's neighbours, co-workers, and relatives should be warned that he stays with a wife who associates with a woman who is married to a pedophile.


Maybe I should leave this board before someone finds out I exchanged messages with the husband of the acquaintance of the wife of the pedophile.
Sadly, it is too late for you. We all know now.
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  #44  
Old 03-14-2009, 01:46 AM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post
I'm going to stake out a different position here and say, yes, this particular woman should be held partially culpable, because of the specific circumstances. This isn't a case where the husband was abusing children without any way for her to know what was going on. She was running a daycare center, which her husband used to gain access to children to abuse. She was responsible for the children's safety, and failed miserably. The fact that she can continue to trust him in any way tells me she's more concerned with his future and his well being than for the children she failed to protect from him. So yes, I'd treat her as a pariah as well.
I agree with muldoonthief. I'm surprised that so many people in this thread are feeling sorry for the pedo's wife. By staying with her pedophile husband, she is in essence condoning his crimes. And for that, she is a despicable individual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hello Again
I would phrase it as the following:
Is your wife pissed off because the woman (who has no job and no means of support according to the court) didn't leave her husband?

Maybe she wishes she could leave but doesn't think she can do it when she has no money, no job and no way to get a job in the thing she knows how to do. Maybe she feels trapped. Ever think of that?
So she is willing to condone child sexual abuse because she doesn't have a job and needs the child abuser's money -- this makes it OK? This makes her worthy of our sympathy?!

I don't think so. This makes her worthy of our scorn.

I would gladly go into the poorhouse to avoid being with a child molester.
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  #45  
Old 03-14-2009, 06:41 AM
even sven even sven is online now
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I agree with muldoonthief.
By staying with her pedophile husband, she is in essence condoning his crimes. And for that, she is a despicable individual.
How so? I have all kinds of friends who do all kinds of stuff I don't approve of. Not shunning someone does not mean you approve of them.
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  #46  
Old 03-14-2009, 08:49 AM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is offline
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This thread is really upsetting me because I don't know the answer.

My Mom remained married to my abuser for years after I told her, and during occasional moments of lucidity admitted she knew what was going on, even corroborated some of my memories of abuse. I didn't feel the need to punish her for staying with him, but it was impossible to have a relationship with her because she kept forcing him on me, saying I was selfish and immature not to move on and let go. The power of denial is quite strong. She's ranged from trying to convince my doctors that I was completely delusional to saying she just let it happen because that's what she thought every family was like. Denial is an incredibly strong human ability, and the lengths that some people will go to conceal the truth from themselves is staggering. I don't hate her, but I do pity her for being too weak to embrace reality.

Having said that, I don't know why so much of the outrage against pedophiles and pedophile's wives rings so false to me. I get the impression that many people refuse to see child abusers as actual human beings, which I regard as a fundamental cause of my mother's denial. If child abusers were regarded with more humanity, fewer kids would get the shaft when they came out about their abuse. My Mom essentially had the choice between her teenage daughter being a liar and her husband being an inhuman monster. Guess which she picked? Society never sees rationally when it comes to this issue, and it hurts the victims.

I'm sure this is the position that this guy's wife is in. Her husband can't be an inhuman monster because she's seen him be goofy and silly and romantic and human. The only default choice she has is that everything else is a lie, and her relationship the only real truth. This is a dichotomy forced by the prevailing attitude about child abusers, so prominently displayed in this thread and in every mainstream media publication, and I will be very happy when it dies.

I know as well as anyone about the real damage that abuse can cause, but people keep missing out on the fact that abusers are human beings capable of doing both good and bad things, and this can make for a very confusing reality for anyone connected with the abuser. So many well-meaning people want to focus on the horror of sexual assault, the visceral revulsion associated with sexual contact between an adult and a child. But my pain, my grief, is first and foremost about having lost one of the most important people in my life, the guy who made me tiny pancakes every morning to make me giggle, who made a silly video of me dressed up as a cow for Halloween, taught me archery and martial arts, who challenged my default assumptions about politics and war, and who was a huge and fundamental part of my life in ways that had nothing to do with being abused. Last year's election was hell, because I wanted so badly to ring him up and argue with him about politics, but I can't, because every time I'm around him I have nightmares and flashbacks and fall apart. Because of a choice he made I have been punished with the loss of him as my Dad. That is a grief at least as profound as death but society will not validate my loss of this human being, they are much more interested in the grotesquery of the abuse itself.

This woman, because of a choice he made, was faced with the loss of him as her husband. Her experience negated society's ''truth'' that he is a monster, and rather than constructing her own, individual, much more nuanced and painful reality, she made the default assumption that society is a liar. Can I pity her for not forcing herself beyond this dichotomy and exploring alternative narratives, however difficult? Sure. But I don't think I can hate her for it, any more than I can hate my own mother.

Last edited by Spice Weasel; 03-14-2009 at 08:51 AM..
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  #47  
Old 03-14-2009, 09:20 AM
dangermom dangermom is offline
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Wow, you put it very eloquently. Those thoughts have been kind of bouncing around in my head but I can't say them right. I guess part of my thinking is that treating this woman with total hostility isn't likely to make her think that anyone is going to accept her, whether she stays or not. Obviously something is very wrong, but it seems to me that giving her hell tells her that society is not going to give her any hope, and she'll feel that she can't change anything regardless.
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  #48  
Old 03-14-2009, 09:46 AM
Manda JO Manda JO is online now
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Originally Posted by olivesmarch4th View Post

[snip]

This woman, because of a choice he made, was faced with the loss of him as her husband. Her experience negated society's ''truth'' that he is a monster, and rather than constructing her own, individual, much more nuanced and painful reality, she made the default assumption that society is a liar. Can I pity her for not forcing herself beyond this dichotomy and exploring alternative narratives, however difficult? Sure. But I don't think I can hate her for it, any more than I can hate my own mother.
You make many good points. I also want to point out that it sounds like the arrest and conviction just happened--within the last few months. It takes time to process something like this and to come out with real understanding. It seems particularly harsh for the OP to think she should have processed and reacted to this so quickly. If I found out something like this about my husband . . . god, I think I'd be shellshocked for at least a year. This is like a death. People aren't rational for a while after something like that, and you cut them slack.
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  #49  
Old 03-14-2009, 02:09 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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Originally Posted by even sven View Post
How so? I have all kinds of friends who do all kinds of stuff I don't approve of. Not shunning someone does not mean you approve of them.
There's a big difference between "stuff you don't approve of" and your husband molesting the children in your care. It's not a matter of the wife disapproving of her husband's actions -- it goes way beyond that. He committed a terrible crime against children she was caring for. Her staying with him constitutes a tacit approval of his actions. That calls her character into question.

That said, I don't think anything should be said to this woman. She should be left alone. Having a pedophile husband is punishment enough, I am sure.

Yes pedophiles are humans, and they need help. Absolutely. But I just can't comprehend a woman staying with a man who abused children in her care -- whether they be kids at her day care or her own kids. Mothers who stay with their children's abusers -- like olivesmarch4th's mom -- are betraying their children and are complicit in the crimes against their kids if they do nothing to stop it.

Last edited by Green Cymbeline; 03-14-2009 at 02:10 PM..
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