Do Japanese people speak like this?

[Dog80]

Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLiXM3uWo3I

In Europe speaking to the waiters in that tone would be considered rude, but I see that all the time in japanese movies (Takeshi Kitano movies mostly). Is this considered normal in Japan?

[not_alice]

Yes you can see that all over the streets, not just business men with waiters.

Japanese have a very different, and highly refined, sense of ingroup and outgroups, and their vocabulary, more so then their tone, reflects it, as in this video.

It would be far weirder if the business guy was speaking using the polite word endings that the chefs use, and if the chefs spoke to him using the familiar endings he uses, anger and worse could ensue.

I speak enough Japanese to be sensitive to this across a wide range of Japanese modern and classic movies, and trust me, the subtitles never even begin to give a sense of how relationships are nuanced and expressed through the dialog. Never.

I actually want to get Tampopo from netflix to review for just this sort of nuance around dining and restaurants- it came out just as i was beginning to learn Japanese, and now I think I would get a lot of the humor that was hidden before. The scene where the young office guy can order in fluent French at the fancy restaurant to the shame of his superiors sticks in my mind, but I bet there is a gold mine of more of the same. For some reason, it is not available on netflix - anyone know why?

[emmaliminal]

Originally Posted by not_alice

I actually want to get Tampopo from netflix to review for just this sort of nuance ... For some reason, it is not available on netflix - anyone know why?

I don't know why Netflix doesn't have it, but Tampopo has been one of my all-time favorite movies since I first saw it in 1987. You mean to tell me it's probably even awesomer than I thought? Wow!

[not_alice]

Originally Posted by emmaliminal

I don't know why Netflix doesn't have it, but Tampopo has been one of my all-time favorite movies since I first saw it in 1987. You mean to tell me it's probably even awesomer than I thought? Wow!

Oh yeah that is what I mean to say. Or find out.

Plus I have probably eaten more of the food since then too.

[Jormungandr]

Originally Posted by not_alice

Yes you can see that all over the streets, not just business men with waiters.

I actually want to get Tampopo from netflix to review for just this sort of nuance around dining and restaurants- it came out just as i was beginning to learn Japanese, and now I think I would get a lot of the humor that was hidden before. The scene where the young office guy can order in fluent French at the fancy restaurant to the shame of his superiors sticks in my mind, but I bet there is a gold mine of more of the same. For some reason, it is not available on netflix - anyone know why?

Here's the French restaurant scene. Why is that guy wincing with one eye? :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcMaZLiqVpI

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by not_alice

The scene where the young office guy can order in fluent French at the fancy restaurant to the shame of his superiors sticks in my mind, but I bet there is a gold mine of more of the same.

Nitpick - the young guy can read the (written in French) menu, and knows what it all means, but he speaks only in Japanese. It's still funny though. A great film.

As to the OP - anyone walking into the restaurant like the guy does in the OP's video, and ordering in that tone of voice would be considered an asshole. Not asshole enough to refuse him service, just an overbearing asshole paying customer who must be put up with. Most people in Japan don't order like that, but they also don't usually order as politely as they do in the States - there is some room in Japan to be imperious as a customer, while not straying outside social norms.

[not_alice]

Originally Posted by Jormungandr

Here's the French restaurant scene. Why is that guy wincing with one eye? :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcMaZLiqVpI

It has to do with the relative rank of everyone. he is probably the local 1st level manager who supervises the kid. He kicks the kid under the table because he knows the kid is going to show everyone up and that is a big no-no. Then the kid does it anyway and the eye-guy is embarrassed and ashamed at the performance. Everyone else is putting on a show too, posturing that they know what is going on while living the adage "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down".

Exactly what I was hoping to see! Damn you netflix!

[not_alice]

Originally Posted by Isamu

Nitpick - the young guy can read the (written in French) menu, and knows what it all means, but he speaks only in Japanese. It's still funny though. A great film.

As to the OP - anyone walking into the restaurant like the guy does in the OP's video, and ordering in that tone of voice would be considered an asshole. Not asshole enough to refuse him service, just an overbearing asshole paying customer who must be put up with. Most people in Japan don't order like that, but they also don't usually order as politely as they do in the States - there is some room in Japan to be imperious as a customer, while not straying outside social norms.

well, he can more then read it - he knows the dishes served at the most exclusive French restaurants and isn't Japanese enough to keep it to himself in front of 5 levels of superiors, when he knows none of the superiors even know what any of the food is on the menu.

And he speaks in a combination of French and Japanese - using romaji-fied French. Ge probably could speak in French, except he is not sure the waiter can - otherwise he surely would. Which is even more humor because it shows he *is* sensitive to the standing of others by not putting the waiter on the spot to prove he (the waiter) knows French.

Agreed, most people don't order like that, but it is the self-important posturing, not the language or tone that goes without being seen. If that guy (or most men for that matter I think) used the same politeness level towards the chefs that they use towards him, the whole scene would be way off and would be conveying a different sort of impression of the businessman. The most polite thing I could say about that, is IMHO, the businessman would be exposed as a foreigner.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

FWIW I've noticed in America that most people these days are afraid to address a waiter as anything but 'Sir'. Sure, egalitarianism is all very good and we don't want to use a title of address that might give someone an inferiority complex. But it's his job! Profession even, for I believe a good waiter can raise it to that level. I think the same of sales clerks or shop assistants. 'Sir!' cold be any male in the room, so what's wrong with 'Waiter!'.

In a perfect world, we would say 'Waither!' but then be polite in giving our directions--"Would you please--", "Could I have..." and so on.

[An Gadaí]

Originally Posted by Jormungandr

Here's the French restaurant scene. Why is that guy wincing with one eye? :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcMaZLiqVpI

That scene is hilarious. I saw this film once years ago. I must try track it down again.

[lissener]

Originally Posted by not_alice

For some reason, it is not available on netflix - anyone know why?

It's never been released on DVD in the US. But everything's available in Hong Kong . . .

[Mister Rik]

Am I the only one who thinks the businessman in the first clip looks amazingly like John Goodman?

[not_alice]

Originally Posted by lissener

It's never been released on DVD in the US. But everything's available in Hong Kong . . .

Anyone know why? I believe I have it on VHS, but since then, IIRC, there was some serious weirdness with the estate of the director, maybe that is part of it?