Due to certain developments in my nascent professional career, I may have the opportunity to spend a year in Russia, learning Russian. I’m currently looking at this school, which has locations in St. Petersburg and Moscow. I’m curious if any of you have had experiences, either with this particular school, or (more likely) learning Russian in the Russian Federation generally.
Some specific questions:
[ul]
[li]How fluent can I expect to become over the course of a year? Depending on the option I choose, I’m looking at 600 to 1,000 hours of formal instruction. A friend suggests that, so long as I avoid speaking English, I should be pretty comfortable after a year. I’m not a complete newcomer–I have been doing self-study for a few months, and know the alphabet, a few hundred words, present and past tense of verbs, and noun cases with various degrees of mastery. [/li][li]How can I tell if a school is good? [/li][li]Moscow or St. Petersburg? My friend recommends St. Pete, and I’d definitely enjoy experiencing the White Nights. Doing both cities is also an option with this school. [/li][li]What is the cost of living like? The course includes a stay with a host family (or other options), plus half-board (two meals/day). But how pricey are clothes, food, entertainment, vodka? [/li][li]How safe is it for GLBT folks? I know Russia is not especially progressive, but I’m concerned about getting my ass kicked. I’m bi, and “straight-acting.” (Actually, many folks don’t get a clear gay or straight vibe from me.) [/li][li]How difficult is the visa process? The State Department’s site makes it sound like a major endeavour; the language school makes it sound like no big deal. [/li][/ul]
Any other insights you might have would be greatly appreciated.
The “learning Russian” issue is in [thread=498044]this thread[/thread]. I can’t speak to any of your other issues, particularly the “how long to become fluent” question. (Answer for Typo: Never! )
I can’t say anything about Russia, but I lived in Japan for several years, starting from what sounds to me to be about an equal level of ability.
After a year, you should be decently able to hold a conversation and read middle-school level children’s books perhaps.
The quality of your school’s course is of minimal importance. Watch TV, make yourself read books, make yourself talk without trying to translate first, if you have to give a presentation in class, use an outline not a written speech. Essentially it’s up to you to learn Russian. If your class has materials and a method that seems useful to you, then that’s certainly good, but if not, just view it as a chance to talk and don’t even bother doing the homework. If you have an option to do fewer hours of coursework, that would be my suggestion. You’ll do better via intensive osmosis. People who go to class, do all the homework, study word lists for tests, write very concise presentations, etc. come out of it knowing how to work a dictionary and how to crib and forget information. They don’t learn how to read, speak, or listen.
Thanks–I’ve had very similar advice from an acquaintance who learned Russian as a Mormon missionary. He warned that I would have to encourage Russians to speak Russian with me, as many are as eager to practice English as I would be to work on Russian. My plan, particularly as it is starting to look that I might have to scale back to six months rather than a year, is to squeeze every last drop out of it–speaking and listening to Russian whenever I can, meeting people, and seeing Peter’s city.
Here’s a more general concern that someone might be able to address, since Russia-specific info seems hard to come by: How should I satisfy myself that a place is legit? Both places I’m looking at look respectable enough based on their websites, but at the end of the day, that and their claimed accreditations are all I have to go on. (And it’s not like I know much about accreditation of language travel schools.)
Given that you’re linking to a UK based website that isn’t Russia specific, I see little reason to think that they’d be a front for a Russian language school. Unless you find someone who actually went to that school, I think you’ll just have to rely on logical deduction like that (and some google fu.)
As you mention, it can be a bit of a pain if the people you are trying to speak Russian to are trying to speak to you in English. You might try and determine which of these two cities has more English speaking Russians. A possible way to test this would be to try and see how many Russians are listed for those cities on OKCupid or any other sort of searchable database of people. The population of Moscow is double that of St. Petersberg, so if the ratio is 2:1 then I guess it doesn’t matter which you choose. Probably you would do best picking a city that has more ties to Asia than Europe if you want to be free of the possibility of encountering English speaking Russians.
My google fu is weak, though; that’s why I love the SDMB. So are you saying that there’s little reason to think they’re not legit, or little reason to think they are? I think you’re saying the former, but it’s worded a bit oddly. Since originally posting, I’ve also been looking at a Russian-specific school, Liden & Denz. They helpfully offer a list of their corporate customers though, including some extremely verifiable ones. (The US Embassy, for example.) I plan on asking them for more specific contact information and following up on it there.
Nice thought on the OKcupid thing. I tend to think of such websites as America-specific, but I guess they’re not.
Calling up the US embassy in Moscow or St. P would probably be a way to get some school recommendations. And yes, I meant that the school is probably fine.
It’s more “English speaking” specific than US specific, I think. Though it is still pretty US specific.
A friend of mine who’s lived in Russia as a foreigner for several years told me most Russians aged 30+ speak very little English, if at all, and only the young folks have actually studied English and know how to speak it. IIRC, he was located in the St. Petersburg area.
I studied Russian at my university for three years and they sent us to St Petersburg for three months. I lived with a family in North-North-North St. Pet which I thought was going to be awesome but they pretty much left me to my own devices. The classes were pretty good though, and when I left after three months I had reached a level where I could pretty much deal with anything that came up. I also read the 6 Harry Potter novels that were out at the time in Russian when I was on the metro (over an hour each day) which was also very helpful.
I suppose that if you spend a year there you should be able to become quite fluent provided that you do in fact avoid expats. This will presumably be hard since the rest of your class will consist of expats and you’ll have a much easier time integrating into the expat community than you will have meeting and befriending Russians.
Prices in the big cities are not exactly low. Some things are actually rather more expensive than in the West (or at any rate: more expensive than in the Netherlands, which is where I’m from). A good thing is that the Ruble has taken a dive as a result of some sort of economic issues that I’m unaware of. For instance, hotel accommodation is very expensive, but train travel is very inexpensive. So is vodka. Theater tickets and the like can also be very inexpensive if you manage to buy early. Also inexpensive: books, but that’s mostly because Russians couldn’t produce a decent-looking book to save their lives. Still, you’ll be able to buy one of the classics in the original for less than a dollar. Or a Harry Potter translation for 5 or 6 dollars.
The visa process is a bit of a hassle - you need an invitation first, which the school you’re going to might arrange for you, but there’s also travel agents that can deal with that. Then you pay a fairly large amount of money to the embassy and they get you a visa. You’ll be needing a multiple-entry one year visum, and I have no idea what that costs and if the procedures are any different here, but I don’t suppose so. I bet there’s agencies in the US (I’m assuming you’re from there) that deal with this kind of thing and take it all out of your hands, including the waiting time at the consulate/embassy. It may be worth your while looking into this.
This is pretty much what I think I can tell you on the basis of the questions you ask in the OP. PM me if you have more questions.
I studied at Moscow State University when I was a grad student for two semesters and lived for a year in Novosibirsk managing a US government funded exchange program. The last time I was in Russia was 2000, so the info might be a little stale.
Both Moscow and St. Pete are very cosmopolitan cities. They can be as expesive as you want them to be. Moscow, in particular, is a millionaires playground. Having said that, you can live much more cheaply. St. Pete, is a more European feeling city than Moscow. Both have their charms, I am more partial to Moscow, but it is a big city like NYC, and that might not appeal to everyone.
I would advise you to check out http://www.americancouncils.org they have a number of exchange programs for all levels and they have a number of US gov funded exchanges. They are one of the oldest and most established exchange programs between the US and Russia. Even if they don’t have a program that works for you, it might be worth making contact to get some advice.
The amount of Russian you can learn in a year or six months largely depends on how motivated you are and how good you are at languages. Moscow and St. Pete will have a lot of English speakers; you can avoid them, but it will take an effort on your part. A second tier city like Novosibirsk or Ekaterinburg might have less English speakers and demand more of you.
I always told Americans coming to Novosibirsk that gay visitors to Russia should be cautious in Russian. There is still a great deal of prejuidice towards gay people in Russia (as in many places) and it sometimes come from people you wouldn’t expect it. Violence towards gay people is not uncommon and too often is not taken seriously by authorities. Anyone in a foreign country needs to be careful about who they are with and where they go. All this isn’t to scare you, and of course there are many many lovely Russian people who will be tolerant and open.
Rather than enrollıng ın an Amerıcan program, ıt may be a good bıt cheaper to enroll dırectly ın a Russian unıversıty’s English for Foreıgners program. I studied at then-Lenıngrad State University ın 1989, and the last time İ looked, they allowed direct enrollment for MUCH cheaper than my program (through Council on İnternatıonal Educational Exchange). İ’d google it for you, but İ’m in Turkey right now (thus the typos - every keyboard here seems to be a bıt different).
İ also hıghly recommend the “fall head over heels for someone who speaks no Englısh” technıque.
Eva Luna–I’m a bit confused. Do you mean enroll in a Russian university’s Russian for Foreigners program? I’m already pretty comfortable with English; it’s Russian I need to work on.
madmonk28, I did take a look at the American Councils website. While I’ve got no doubt that they’re legit, they’re quite pricey, probably in part because there is actual college credit involved. I’m on the edge of graduating from law school, so credit isn’t an issue for me. I’ll drop them an email seeking more general advice later.
Eva, I’m guessing that you were referring to a Russian for foreigners program; if so, thank you. I’ve been looking at St. Petersburg State University, and their fees are significantly less than those of the private schools I’ve been looking at. Plus, I’d feel much more confident dealing with them, since they’re an institution with several hundred years of history–in fact, the same institution that you attended back in the days of Leningrad. Not exactly a fly-by-night get-rich-off-foreigners scam.
If you are able to take the opportunity, by all means do so!
I spent the '95-'96 academic year at SPbGU through CIEE as part of my Russian major and I loved it! You could do a lot worse than study there (not to say that other programs aren’t just as good). Piter is a wonderful city and you can find all sorts of ways to keep yourself occupied when you’re not engrossed in your studies. I don’t know if it was specific to the CIEE program but I was allowed to sit in on two actual courses outside the program, which was a help in listening comprehension.
As far as housing goes, the folks I studied with didn’t seem to have overwhelmingly or uniformly positive experiences with staying with families. I stayed in the SPbGU dorms and had a lot of fun hanging with the Russian students. If you have that option, I say take it. Of course that depends on your age, too - Russian students know how to party, and sometimes a good night’s sleep isn’t possible.
Eva Luna, the moment I saw your contribution I said “Why the hell is she using a Turkish keyboard?” Türkiye’de nerdesin? (I also find it a little eerie how our international peregrinations seem to match up so closely.)
One thing you can do is poke around on their site to see which institutions they partner with in Russia and then see if those institutions offer their own programs. If ACTR works with them, you can at least be sure they in fact exist and aren’t a scam. You might also look at programs in Kiev, people there speak Ukrainian and Russian and it is a wonderful city (also might be significantly cheaper). As an FYI, stay out of Belarus, the government there is reactionary in the extreme and I know an American who really got in trouble with the law there.
I was going to let this pass without comment, but my domovoi has left off eating macaroons and begun muttering and pointing at the computer screen.
Be warned that the ancient spirits are still very strong in Mother Russia. Nearly every place and every thing has a protector spirit. The spirits offend easily. Most can be placated with offerings of sweets and vodka. Go ahead and laugh. You’ve never seen somebody skinned by a bahnik (bath house spirit).
Remember that the Baba Yaga’s reach is long.
Finally, remember that Mother Russia is cold and depressing.
Olentzero, I just saw your messages here–thanks for your responses! I’ve sent you a PM with a few more questions about your experiences and general thoughts.
Howdy - I am back from Turkey now, and on a normal keyboard once again. I just sent the OP a PM, but just for the heck of it, I’m going to repost the info here on the off chance that it’s useful to someone else.
There was no option for a homestay when I was in Russia the first time in 1989. In fact, at that time there were only 3 U.S. programs in the whole USSR; ACTR (American Council of Teachers of Russian) in Moscow, CIEE (Council for International Educational Exchange) in Leningrad, and a program restricted to students of California state universities, which was new that year. Dorms were the only option. The dorm experience was fun, but the physical condition of the dorms…well, let’s just say it left something to be desired. No idea if things have improved since then. (Think about a three-year-old dorm in which the elevators worked maybe half the time - I lived on the 13th floor - and the plumbing and heating worked when they felt like it, and the electrical outlets were fallinig out of the walls. Oh, and the bedbugs. All those horror stories you’ve heard about Soviet constriction? Well, many of them are true.) By the time I went again (Novosibirsk, summer 1995, again via CIEE), there was a homestay option, but not many people took advantaeg of it. I sometimes wish I had that time, as that program was full of annoying 19-year-old undergrads who took full advantage of the easy availability of alcohol and kept everyone in the dorm up until all hours of the night. Plus most of the people on the program had very little Russian, and I was pretty fluent, so it was hard to get a real immersion experience, especially with most of the Russian students gone for the summer.
– I learned quite a lot of Russian; though I’d had 3 years at college level when I went, I wasn’t really able to converse well at all. After about a month, something just clicked in my head, and I got steadily more functional. The best thing you can do is stay away from the other English speakers as much as possible; in 1989 I think I made more progress than just about anyone else in my program because I was the only one with no American roommates. By the time I left, 4 months later, I was pretty conversationally fluent, if still chock-full of vocabulary gaps.
The teachers in the Russian for Foreigners program at St. Petersburg State U. really knew their stuff, and if you don’t need college credit, I don’t see why you should need to pay extra for hand-holding from a U.S. program. The St. Petersburg State University program has been around for several decades; they are primarily geared toward teaching Russian to third-world students to whom the USSR gave university scholarships, which means they are geared toward getting non-Russian speakers up to a level to be able to handle college classes within a year or so. I’d check with them and see what they offer in the way of visa support, assistance with finding a place to live, etc.
– If you want to get more recent stories from people, there are some Livejournal communities that might be useful; check out learn_russian.
Anyway, gotta run, but let me know if you need more info as you do further research.
[/li][li]How safe is it for GLBT folks? I know Russia is not especially progressive, but I’m concerned about getting my ass kicked. I’m bi, and “straight-acting.” (Actually, many folks don’t get a clear gay or straight vibe from me.) [/li][li]How difficult is the visa process? The State Department’s site makes it sound like a major endeavour; the language school makes it sound like no big deal. [/li][/ul]
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My plan, particularly as it is starting to look that I might have to scale back to six months rather than a year, is to squeeze every last drop out of it–speaking and listening to Russian whenever I can, meeting people, and seeing Peter’s city.
So are you saying that there’s little reason to think they’re not legit, or little reason to think they are? I think you’re saying the former, but it’s worded a bit oddly. Since originally posting, I’ve also been looking at a Russian-specific school, 
