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  #1  
Old 04-10-2009, 09:15 AM
CC CC is offline
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Why does the Minnesota Twins logo have a C in it?

I suppose I'm overlooking something simple and basic, but I can't see why the Twins' hats have a bit T overlaying a big C. What's the C for? And, to add insult to injury (to a Chicago fan) the C looks very much like the C used in the Bears' logo.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:17 AM
slitterst slitterst is offline
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They're from the Twin Cities.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:42 AM
fiddlesticks fiddlesticks is offline
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My one of my first pro baseball games was a grade school field trip to see the Brewers vs. the Twins at County Stadium...probably 1984 or 1985. I was very confused by the TC on the caps but even more confused by the bizarre name of one of the Twinkies..."Hrbek"...it violated everything my grade teachers had taught me about how English works.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:58 AM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Minneapolis and St. Paul were cultural rivals and they historically had their own teams (Millers and Saints). When the Senators moved to Minnesota in 1961, it was believed that using the name "Minneapolis" or a logo prominently featuring an M to symbolize the team would alienate St. Paulers. So they named the team "Minnesota" and used TC for "Twin Cities" as the cap emblem.
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:32 AM
John DiFool John DiFool is offline
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Now if we could only figure out what the "H" means in the logo of Montreal Canadiens. Stands for "hockey"?
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:33 AM
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I guess, upon reflection, that's the reason they're called the Twins. But they're the Minnesota Twins, not the Twin City Twins. I suppose it's just another place where politics trumps logic. Thanks, Dopers. xo, C.
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by John DiFool View Post
Now if we could only figure out what the "H" means in the logo of Montreal Canadiens. Stands for "hockey"?
I'm pretty sure that stands for Les Habitants. They're still called the Habs by old-timers.
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by John DiFool View Post
Now if we could only figure out what the "H" means in the logo of Montreal Canadiens. Stands for "hockey"?
I assume it's short for one of their nicknames, Les Habitants. Maybe you've heard commentators calls the team The Habs?
  #9  
Old 04-10-2009, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by John DiFool View Post
Now if we could only figure out what the "H" means in the logo of Montreal Canadiens. Stands for "hockey"?
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Originally Posted by CC View Post
I'm pretty sure that stands for Les Habitants. They're still called the Habs by old-timers.
Actually, it does stand for "hockey", as in "Club de hockey". We had a thread on this subject a few months ago.
  #10  
Old 04-10-2009, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by acsenray View Post
Minneapolis and St. Paul were cultural rivals and they historically had their own teams (Millers and Saints). When the Senators moved to Minnesota in 1961, it was believed that using the name "Minneapolis" or a logo prominently featuring an M to symbolize the team would alienate St. Paulers. So they named the team "Minnesota" and used TC for "Twin Cities" as the cap emblem.
To expand on this a bit... When the Senators were moving, their owner actually planned to call them the "Twin City Twins." Only after the logo had been designed (and according to some reports, uniforms and caps manufactured) did the League reject the name as geographically vague. They settled on "Minnesota" but the TC logo remained for years to come.
(Wiki article)
  #11  
Old 04-10-2009, 12:53 PM
Hampshire Hampshire is offline
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And, to add insult to injury (to a Chicago fan) the C looks very much like the C used in the Bears' logo.
I'd be more concerend about the Cincinatti Reds logo.
  #12  
Old 04-10-2009, 12:57 PM
HubZilla HubZilla is offline
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Oooh, here's my chance:

What's the "elb" in the old Montreal Expos logo?
  #13  
Old 04-10-2009, 01:12 PM
Morbo Morbo is offline
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Oooh, here's my chance:

What's the "elb" in the old Montreal Expos logo?
There's no "l". It's part of the "M" - Montreal Expos Baseball.
  #14  
Old 04-10-2009, 01:21 PM
Philster Philster is offline
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http://www.canadiandesignresource.ca.../04/expos1.jpg

The whole logo is an upper case M, and the left side is an ''e' (Expos) and the right wide is a ''b'' (baseball).
  #15  
Old 04-10-2009, 01:24 PM
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While we're at it, let's explain the Milwaukee Brewers logo, fashioned like a baseball glove from the letter M and b

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/mil..._1280x1024.jpg

Some people see the letters, not the glove, and others the glove and not the lettes.
  #16  
Old 04-10-2009, 01:50 PM
Wheelz Wheelz is offline
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I really like this Arizona Diamondbacks sleeve patch -- The letters "db" in the form of a snake head.
  #17  
Old 04-10-2009, 01:54 PM
anson2995 anson2995 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hampshire View Post
I'd be more concerend about the Cincinatti Reds logo.
The Reds were using the wishbone C long before the Bears even existed. It was on their jersies in 1905. The Bears were founded in 1920 as the Decatur Staleys, and didn't become the Chicago Bears until 1922. They didn't put the logo on their helmet until 1962.

Last edited by anson2995; 04-10-2009 at 01:55 PM.. Reason: duplicate redundancy
  #18  
Old 04-10-2009, 02:21 PM
Bender44 Bender44 is offline
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Ah...but what of the University of Miami football helmets and the U? Surely it doesn't stand for University, does it?*




*I know its the meteorological symbol for a hurricane or something like that. Still looks silly, IMO.
  #19  
Old 04-10-2009, 02:26 PM
Xema Xema is offline
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Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post
... but even more confused by the bizarre name of one of the Twinkies..."Hrbek"...
A sign held up by a fan during a Twins game said "Hrbek: buy a vowel".
  #20  
Old 04-10-2009, 02:31 PM
jsc1953 jsc1953 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bender44 View Post
Ah...but what of the University of Miami football helmets and the U? Surely it doesn't stand for University, does it?*




*I know its the meteorological symbol for a hurricane or something like that. Still looks silly, IMO.
I have never heard that explanation before. I thought it just stood for University -- and their fans refer to it as "The U".
ETA: You're probably thinking of the hurricane flag you may sometimes see being waved by their fans: red background with 2 black squares -- the Coast Guard warning for a hurricane (one square = tropical storm).

BYU just has a big "Y" as their logo, btw. brighamYOUNGuniversity

Last edited by jsc1953; 04-10-2009 at 02:36 PM..
  #21  
Old 04-10-2009, 02:34 PM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is online now
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Originally Posted by HubZilla View Post
Oooh, here's my chance:

What's the "elb" in the old Montreal Expos logo?
I wondered that for YEARS!
  #22  
Old 04-10-2009, 02:34 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Originally Posted by Bender44 View Post
Ah...but what of the University of Miami football helmets and the U? Surely it doesn't stand for University, does it?*




*I know its the meteorological symbol for a hurricane or something like that. Still looks silly, IMO.
Apparently, it really is Just a U, because too many other schools used the initials "U.M."

Last edited by Acsenray; 04-10-2009 at 02:35 PM..
  #23  
Old 04-10-2009, 02:36 PM
fiddlesticks fiddlesticks is offline
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I grew up in Wisconsin and didn't recognize the hidden MB in the Brewers old logo until I was about 16...I always thought it was just a glove! Then again, I grew up in a Cub fan family so I didn't pay much attention to the American League and most of my logo study was trying to decipher the Expos logo.
  #24  
Old 04-10-2009, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by acsenray View Post
Apparently, it really is Just a U, because too many other schools used the initials "U.M."
That does makes sense (in a dumb kind of way). But I've heard people use the Hurricane symbol explanation before, but it sounded like after the fact rationalizing. Interestingly enough, I took law school classes there and nobody I heard actually refers to it as "The U". Its always U.M.
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Old 04-10-2009, 03:38 PM
kunilou kunilou is offline
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Originally Posted by anson2995 View Post
The Reds were using the wishbone C long before the Bears even existed. It was on their jersies in 1905. The Bears were founded in 1920 as the Decatur Staleys, and didn't become the Chicago Bears until 1922. They didn't put the logo on their helmet until 1962.
And on top of that, the Bears didn't even come up with logo on their own. They appropriated the look from the University of Chicago (the original Monsters of the Midway) when the school dropped intercollegiate sports in 1939.
  #26  
Old 04-10-2009, 04:08 PM
Uncle Brother Walker Uncle Brother Walker is offline
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Back to hockey: I always heard that the Canadiens logo was for "Les Habitants Icrieable" (sp?). Closely butchered in English to mean "The Incredible Team (of Residents)". These are our boys.

Maybe this was more of a nationalistic name the locals used before they joined the NHL. Like some people refer to the Miami Dolphins as the "Fins". Or how some sportscasters refer to the Dallas Cowboys as "America's Team" in a sentence as their name.

Maybe even similar to how Redskins fans refer to the team, in almost every example I can think of, as "we". As in "When WE won the Super Bowl..."
  #27  
Old 04-10-2009, 04:10 PM
Freddy the Pig Freddy the Pig is offline
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Originally Posted by kunilou
And on top of that, the Bears didn't even come up with logo on their own. They appropriated the look from the University of Chicago (the original Monsters of the Midway) when the school dropped intercollegiate sports in 1939.
The Wishbone C has been used so many times by so many teams (including the Chicago Cubs and Cleveland Indians) that I don't think it's possible to say who was appropriating it from whom. I doubt that the U of C was much of an inspiration in 1962, since they had dropped football 23 years previously, and had never had the logo on their helmet.
  #28  
Old 04-10-2009, 05:11 PM
John DiFool John DiFool is offline
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I assume it's short for one of their nicknames, Les Habitants. Maybe you've heard commentators calls the team The Habs?
I have, but I mentioned it because it seemed on topic for the thread.
  #29  
Old 04-10-2009, 05:22 PM
The Seventh Deadly Finn The Seventh Deadly Finn is offline
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Apparently, it really is Just a U, because too many other schools used the initials "U.M."
I know it's not your fault, but that's really stupid. Every team has the word "university" in their name! It's like if I had my shirts monogrammed with a "p," for "person."
  #30  
Old 04-10-2009, 05:53 PM
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This weekend, Florida goes up against its cross-state rival, University!

I also find it precious for universities to refer to themselves as the University. No, I'm sorry, "the university" by itself is still just a common noun, even when we know which one you're referring to. The U. is different, because it's more like a nickname.
  #31  
Old 04-10-2009, 07:53 PM
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Some people see the letters, not the glove, and others the glove and not the lettes.
Wow. I never noticed the letters before.

--Cliffy
  #32  
Old 04-10-2009, 08:16 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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It took me decades to see the letters in the Brewers logo. When I was a kid, I would meticulously draw all the major league baseball cap insignias over and over, and I still didn't notice the letters.
  #33  
Old 04-10-2009, 09:11 PM
kunilou kunilou is offline
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Originally Posted by Freddy the Pig View Post
The Wishbone C has been used so many times by so many teams (including the Chicago Cubs and Cleveland Indians) that I don't think it's possible to say who was appropriating it from whom. I doubt that the U of C was much of an inspiration in 1962, since they had dropped football 23 years previously, and had never had the logo on their helmet.
I'm not the only person who thinks the U of C was the inspiration.

Quote:
The team acquired the University of Chicago's discarded nickname "Monsters of the Midway" and their now-famous helmet "C", as well as a newly penned theme song that declared them "The Pride and Joy of Illinois".
Quote:
The Chicago Bears took their colors from the University of Illinois, they took the logo from the University of Chicago, and some say the name was taken somewhat from the cubs.
  #34  
Old 04-10-2009, 11:43 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is offline
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The Wiki citation does not assert that the "C" was taken from the University of Chicago, only their nickname.

The other web page you are offering cannot be taken as authoritative of anything except that someone else is under the same potential delusion you are. You are not, I hope, offering it as a serious citation in support of the truth of the matter?
  #35  
Old 04-11-2009, 12:20 AM
Hypnagogic Jerk Hypnagogic Jerk is offline
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Actually, it does stand for "hockey", as in "Club de hockey". We had a thread on this subject a few months ago.
This is correct. The team's official name is Club de hockey canadien / Canadian Hockey Club and the 'H' stands for "hockey". (Now what I wonder is if the 'C' stands for "Canadien" or "Club".) They're celebrating their hundredth anniversary this year, so they've been playing a few times with uniforms with ancient designs on them -- it makes for more merchandise to sell -- one of them sporting this logo, from the time the team was called the Club athlétique canadien / Canadian Athletic Club.
  #36  
Old 04-11-2009, 11:54 AM
Freddy the Pig Freddy the Pig is offline
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The other web page you are offering cannot be taken as authoritative of anything except that someone else is under the same potential delusion you are.
It is, alas, a common delusion. The most scholarly history of University of Chicago football is Stagg's University: The Rise, Decline, and Fall of Big-Time Football at Chicago, by Robin Lester and published by the University of Illinois Press. After discussing the U of C discontinuation of football, Lester makes the following throwaway assertion:
Quote:
Further, the Chicago Bears' later appropriation of the Maroons' C emblem as well as the "Monsters of the Midway" description must have denoted a kind of respect for the university's football tradition.
This is what I love in historical writing: "spontaneous attribution". It must have denoted respect. Why must it have? The Monsters nickname wasn't "appopriated" by the Bears, it was transferred to them by sportswriters too lazy to think of a new nickname. It never even made much sense, since the Bears never played anywhere near the Midway and didn't have much of a fan base down there until the Cardinals left town.

As for the C, as we have seen, it wasn't used by the Bears until 23 years later. Given the 23-year time lag, and the fact that the C never appeared on Chicago football uniforms or helmets, and the fact that there was never any particular connection between U of C and the Bears other than playing in the same city, and the fact that many other teams have used a similar logo, any assertion that the Bears C is deliberate homage to the U of C requires substantiation. (Such as, for example, testimony from its creator.) I am aware of no such substantiation.
  #37  
Old 04-11-2009, 02:21 PM
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Back to the Twins, the whole idea of Minneapolis and St Paul coming together is commemorated in their old sleeve patch, one of the best in sports IMO, which has a "M" baseball player and a "StP" baseball player symbolically shaking hands over the Mississippi river, with the whole logo in the shape of Minnesota.

More hidden-letter shenanigans: looked closely at a New Jersey Devils logo lately? It's an "N" and a "J" for New Jersey.
  #38  
Old 04-11-2009, 02:43 PM
anson2995 anson2995 is offline
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Originally Posted by Freddy the Pig View Post
any assertion that the Bears C is deliberate homage to the U of C requires substantiation. (Such as, for example, testimony from its creator.) I am aware of no such substantiation.
I agree, although I would like to point out there was a link between the Bears and U of Chicago, and that's probably where the myth originated. The school's head coach from 1933 to 1939 was Clark Shaughnessy, who had a very close relationship with Bears owner/coach George Halas. Shaughnessy developed a new offense called the Modern-T, which he helped the Bears to implement. He later joined the Bears in an official capacity. But the idea that the Bears logo was an homage to the University is, as you say, unsubstantiated.

For what it's worth, the Chicago Cardinals were using the wishbone C on their uniforms long before the Bears were. The Bears adopted it *after* the Cards moved to St. Louis and dropped the "C" for a bird's head.
  #39  
Old 04-11-2009, 02:53 PM
zamboniracer zamboniracer is offline
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Originally Posted by Hypnagogic Jerk View Post
This is correct. The team's official name is Club de hockey canadien / Canadian Hockey Club and the 'H' stands for "hockey". (Now what I wonder is if the 'C' stands for "Canadien" or "Club".) They're celebrating their hundredth anniversary this year, so they've been playing a few times with uniforms with ancient designs on them -- it makes for more merchandise to sell -- one of them sporting this logo, from the time the team was called the Club athlétique canadien / Canadian Athletic Club.
The Canadiens' anniversary celebration has resulted in some crimes against hockey fashion, namely the barber-striped-jerseys.
  #40  
Old 04-11-2009, 07:33 PM
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More hidden-letter shenanigans: looked closely at a New Jersey Devils logo lately? It's an "N" and a "J" for New Jersey.
You don't have to look closely to see that. It's not like it looks like anything else.
  #41  
Old 04-13-2009, 11:46 AM
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The old Hartford Whalers logo is pretty cool too. It's a W with a whale's tail, but the negative space also forms an H for Hartford.

Last edited by Colibri; 04-13-2009 at 12:49 PM.. Reason: fixed link
  #42  
Old 04-13-2009, 12:50 PM
Colibri Colibri is offline
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The old Hartford Whalers logo is pretty cool too. It's a W with a whale's tail, but the negative space also forms an H for Hartford.
I tried to fix the link, but it still seems not to be working.
  #43  
Old 04-13-2009, 12:59 PM
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Maybe even similar to how Redskins fans refer to the team, in almost every example I can think of, as "we". As in "When WE won the Super Bowl..."
I think that's pretty much a universal characteristic of fans of all sports teams, not just the 'Skins.

-Piker
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:51 PM
Wheelz Wheelz is offline
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I tried to fix the link, but it still seems not to be working.
Whoops, sorry. In case anyone still cares, here it is:

http://logoshak.com/~asgsport/images5/Whalers_3.gif
  #45  
Old 04-13-2009, 03:41 PM
Troy McClure SF Troy McClure SF is offline
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I tried to fix the link, but it still seems not to be working.
Go here and scroll down to Hartford.
  #46  
Old 04-23-2009, 08:51 PM
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Some great posts here. I was always told by friends and relatives who were big baseball fans-when I insisted that the m that looked like an elb also- that it was just a multicolored m. I always insisted it was both.

Also regarding the U. I thought it was just "the U" for the sake of simplicity for most of their players.

Last edited by rdubya; 04-23-2009 at 08:52 PM..
  #47  
Old 04-20-2010, 03:08 PM
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The answer to your question is very simple. The "T" and "C" stands for Twin Cities which refers to the cities of Minneapolis and St Paul. Most people in the region refer to Minneapolis and St Paul as the "Twin Cities". That's where the name Twins is from.
  #48  
Old 04-20-2010, 03:12 PM
buzzcon buzzcon is offline
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Back to the Twins, the whole idea of Minneapolis and St Paul coming together is commemorated in their old sleeve patch, one of the best in sports IMO, which has a "M" baseball player and a "StP" baseball player symbolically shaking hands over the Mississippi river, with the whole logo in the shape of Minnesota.

More hidden-letter shenanigans: looked closely at a New Jersey Devils logo lately? It's an "N" and a "J" for New Jersey.
You are correct. But the names of the two gentlemen shaking hands are Mini and Paul. For obvious reasons.
  #49  
Old 04-20-2010, 03:28 PM
Peremensoe Peremensoe is offline
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When the Senators were moving, their owner actually planned to call them the "Twin City Twins." Only after the logo had been designed (and according to some reports, uniforms and caps manufactured) did the League reject the name as geographically vague.
They could have been the Minneapolis-St. Paul Twins, which is the convention used by minor league teams which have been known as Twins (or even Triplets), in the days when such teams were called that because they "represented" two communities, not because they were farm teams for the major-league Twins.

Speaking of Twins farm teams, the Rochester Redwings have sometimes used this as an alternate cap logo. "FC" stands for Flour City, or maybe Flower City.
  #50  
Old 04-20-2010, 03:30 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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buzzcon, was it really necessary to bring back a year-old thread just to give an answer that had already been given in the very first reply?
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