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  #1  
Old 07-10-2009, 10:25 PM
chaoticbear chaoticbear is offline
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Pseudoephedrine (PSE) laws, specifically AR

Having browsed the Arkansas Board of Pharmacy website, Google, and the FDA website, I can't find any information to support my quest.

Recently, I got called into the district manager's office and got my ass CHEWED for denying PSE sales to people. These reasons ranged from:

Turning out-of-towners away (we are right on the interstate, and if you are coming from more than 15 miles away in any direction, you have passed another walmart, let alone another drugstore. People driving in from Benton to Little Rock (about a 15 minute drive) have passed a grand total of 3 other walmarts, and a Sam's Club, specifically, if they have a preference for retailer.

Turning people away who have more than one ID, which happens fairly frequently, at least once every couple weeks.

Turning people away who are buying it for someone else - my take on this is that you can't do the same for cigarettes or alcohol, why should they for a more controlled substance?

Turning people away when they have a health condition that precludes them using PSE (like the lady who cut in front of everyone in line and told me she had heart problems and couldn't wait in line)

And finally, turning people away because they're part of a PSE caravan, like if two people with the same address come to buy it back to back.

Note that none of this applies to any product other than 12-hour or 24-hour Sudafed and their generics. If someone wants to make meth with a product with antihistamines and analgesics in it, be my guest. That, and the only real clinical use for 24-hour Sudafed IS making meth.

For the record, the pharmacists I work with support this, but I don't have room to set a toe out of line at work anyway, and the other people at work are at this point not subject to any of the restrictions put on me.

AND SO THE QUESTION, finally: Missouri's board of pharmacy has some clause somewhere on the internet that people can be refused PSE if the person selling it believes it will be used for illicit purposes. Where can I find such information about my state?
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  #2  
Old 07-10-2009, 11:07 PM
Duckster Duckster is offline
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:47 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is offline
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Why would you turn away someone from 'out of town?' Maybe they work close to that store or are visiting someone in that area?
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:38 AM
Magiver Magiver is offline
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If I had a sinus headache and you denied me the purchase I would be unhappy.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:24 AM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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In all likelyhood you're not getting chewed out 'cause you violated some law, you're getting chewed out because you're turning away potential sales.

Especially like Walmart which prides itself on, "you can pick up your prescription at ANY Walmart." Something I found extremely useful when I traveled for work. It was nice to go to the Walmart in Indianapolis and tell them I need my prescription filled and then drive down to Dothan, Alabama and pick up the prescription there.

They are probably somehow seeing how many sales you're missing and are upset. From the stores point of view unless the store can be easily held liable, it's not your problem to police the world.
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2009, 07:20 AM
bluezooky bluezooky is offline
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"Note that none of this applies to any product other than 12-hour or 24-hour Sudafed and their generics. If someone wants to make meth with a product with antihistamines and analgesics in it, be my guest. That, and the only real clinical use for 24-hour Sudafed IS making meth."

I can't deny it's illegal use in drug manufacturer however you might as well sell me a sugar pill instead of Sudafed with Phenylephrine, it has absolutely zero effect on my personal nasal passages, to say everyone who asks for full strength Sudafed is a drug maker is just ridiculous.

Last edited by bluezooky; 07-11-2009 at 07:21 AM..
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:27 AM
BigT BigT is online now
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Originally Posted by Markxxx View Post
In all likelyhood you're not getting chewed out 'cause you violated some law, you're getting chewed out because you're turning away potential sales.

Especially like Walmart which prides itself on, "you can pick up your prescription at ANY Walmart." Something I found extremely useful when I traveled for work. It was nice to go to the Walmart in Indianapolis and tell them I need my prescription filled and then drive down to Dothan, Alabama and pick up the prescription there.

They are probably somehow seeing how many sales you're missing and are upset. From the stores point of view unless the store can be easily held liable, it's not your problem to police the world.
Exactly. Even if there is a law saying you can turn away people, it will not say that you have to, so a legal defense will likely not work. I'm not certain, but I believe Arkansas is one of those states where they can fire you for whatever reason, but, even if they can't, they can gripe at you as much as they want.

Arkansas may be doing fairly well in this recession, but finding another job is still somewhat difficult. I'd advise you to be careful.
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:54 AM
Ferret Herder Ferret Herder is offline
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Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
Why would you turn away someone from 'out of town?' Maybe they work close to that store or are visiting someone in that area?
I think the idea is that, since you can only buy a small amount at a time, they may be traveling between cities or even states to be able to buy enough to make a batch of meth with.
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2009, 10:09 AM
chaoticbear chaoticbear is offline
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Originally Posted by bluezooky View Post
"Note that none of this applies to any product other than 12-hour or 24-hour Sudafed and their generics. If someone wants to make meth with a product with antihistamines and analgesics in it, be my guest. That, and the only real clinical use for 24-hour Sudafed IS making meth."

I can't deny it's illegal use in drug manufacturer however you might as well sell me a sugar pill instead of Sudafed with Phenylephrine, it has absolutely zero effect on my personal nasal passages, to say everyone who asks for full strength Sudafed is a drug maker is just ridiculous.
Again, don't care about any product besides the 12-hour and 24-hour Sudafed. Buy the red tablets all day long, or at least be in the system from having prescriptions filled or SOMETHING.

For the record, all of my coworkers and pharmacists are up in arms about this also, but on my side. Maybe this just isn't an issue that translates into discussion with people who don't work in a pharmacy. Saying that we get 20 people a day who have clearly been using meth wanting 24-hour Sudafed is probably an understatement. And I'm not worried about the profit, we are talking something that costs 7 dollar a box and makes maybe 2 dollars profit. And we're already the biggest department as far as sales are concerned.
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:16 AM
chaoticbear chaoticbear is offline
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And sorry about the double post, but part of this frustration comes from working first in a store where we literally stalled Sudafed people, called the drug task force people, and had an arrest every week or two in the parking lot, to going to a store where they just don't carry 12 or 24 hour Sudafed, except for prescriptions, to a store where they can't figure out WHAT they want to do. Short of playing fun mind games with people who ask for the "Equate sinus and allergy" getting generic Claritin-D, I don't have any way to combat this.

With regards to the "watch your back" comment, I haven't ever been in any major trouble before at work, and according to the "productivity report" I printed out, which lists the three categories of tech positions (Drop-Off, Input, and Fill), I am #1 in two of those, and 6 away from 2nd in filling out of about 10 techs.
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  #11  
Old 07-11-2009, 02:25 PM
Harriet the Spry Harriet the Spry is offline
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Is your district manager a pharmacist? It seems like the lead pharmacist needs to set the tone with store management about how your pharmacy is going to comply with the law and any code of ethics the pharmacist needs to uphold in supervising the pharmacy. Store management may not be aware of how complex this issue is.

One argument you might want to make is that some customers will not respond positively to your store getting a reputation as a meth-friendly venue. Sure, some will, but some won't. I know I don't want to wait in line at the pharmacy behind some "caravan" of 4 people buying their box of Sudafed.

On the other hand, store management is going to want to sell in as many instances as it can without alienating other customers, incurring legal liability for noncompliance, or (perhaps) creating an environment where it can't retain pharmacists. So you may wind up needing to sell in some cases when you would prefer not to.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:43 PM
TBG TBG is offline
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Not selling to someone just because you've determined how many other stores they passed on the way to get to your store is ridiculous. Maybe they have valid, none of your business reasons for not shopping at those other stores, even other stores of the same chain.

Quote:
Turning people away who are buying it for someone else - my take on this is that you can't do the same for cigarettes or alcohol, why should they for a more controlled substance?
You can't buy cigs or alcohol for other people? Since when? I know you can't buy it for minors, but not for anyone? Wow, guess anybody throwing a party better make sure it's BYOB.

As for buying medicine for someone else, wow, it must suck when someone's out buying for their sick in bed loved one and they run across a drug-nazi, "NO PILLS FOR YOU!"

Quote:
And finally, turning people away because they're part of a PSE caravan, like if two people with the same address come to buy it back to back.
Yeah, people at the same address could never be passing an illness around and both actually, ya know, need the same medication...
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2009, 04:20 PM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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Originally Posted by chaoticbear View Post
Turning out-of-towners away (we are right on the interstate, and if you are coming from more than 15 miles away in any direction, you have passed another walmart, let alone another drugstore. People driving in from Benton to Little Rock (about a 15 minute drive) have passed a grand total of 3 other walmarts, and a Sam's Club, specifically, if they have a preference for retailer.
I have to take issue with this - when I worked in Chicago I used to pick up medications at the drugstore near my work in the Loop despite living in Indiana (you know, a whole different state) because it was convenient as then I did not have to go out of my way on the way home to get something.

Now, I am well away that meth addicts will play games with retailers, but the mere fact someone is from out of town, or could have stopped elsewhere does not automatically make them a druggy.

Quote:
Turning people away who are buying it for someone else - my take on this is that you can't do the same for cigarettes or alcohol, why should they for a more controlled substance?
WTF? You can't buy alcohol for someone else (assuming they are of legal age)? Since WHEN? You're shitting me, right? Is that the law in Arkanas? I might except that in Utah, but anywhere else?

I can't buy cigarettes for someone else? (Not that I would anyhow....) Gee, guess my parents should be jailed for all the times they bought packs for each other.

For that matter, there doesn't seem to be an issue with my picking up my husband's narcotic pain pills, either. That's just... bizarre. Is that how Arkansas works? What about disabled people who find it nearly impossible to get to a pharmacy, do they just go without their medications? Seems a little cruel, but OK...

Quote:
AND SO THE QUESTION, finally: Missouri's board of pharmacy has some clause somewhere on the internet that people can be refused PSE if the person selling it believes it will be used for illicit purposes. Where can I find such information about my state?
Well, yes, that does make sense, but I'm not entirely sure all your criteria are valid in making that assessment.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:34 PM
gotpasswords gotpasswords is offline
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Are these customers coming up clear on MethMonitor or LeadOnLabs? If so, you probably can't do much.

Hate to say it, as much as I'm on your side, but the onus is on the customer - they're signing the log, and if they're giving incorrect or misleading statements, they can face felony charges.

However, if you suspect the customers are up to no good, you (meaning the pharmacy) are required to file a written report per Arkansas Code § 5-64-1006 (a). Your employer has a choice - turn away suspicious customers or file lots of paperwork.

For more specifics and official guidance, I'd recommend contacting the Arkansas State Board of Pharmacy.
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  #15  
Old 07-11-2009, 04:45 PM
chaoticbear chaoticbear is offline
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I think that everyone here is missing the point. YOU DO NOT NEED 24 HOUR SUDAFED FOR ANY LEGITIMATE MEDICAL PURPOSE. The end. In fact, the one time in 4 years I've seen anyone need it for a chronic illness (fluid that leaked into the ears constantly), she did what any sane person would do, got a prescription. And even then, she couldn't tolerate a daily dose, rather she just took it every other day.

If you are coming in from out of state, and do not have any of the classic signs of meth production or use, you aren't coming in to buy the cold medicine that I'm talking about.

And the comment about "buying it for someone else" is because there is a quantity restriction on the drugs. Someone who is bed-ridden and sick is going to have more problems than sinus congestion, and should be under a doctor's care. Having a sinus headache isn't going to make you unable to get out of bed.

I suppose any answers to this question are not going to matter, as everyone would rather dogpile me instead.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:55 PM
Cornelius Tuggerson Cornelius Tuggerson is offline
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You probably got chewed out for poor customer service more then anything else, you don't come off as a very friendly guy.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2009, 05:31 PM
Turek Turek is offline
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Originally Posted by chaoticbear View Post
YOU DO NOT NEED 24 HOUR SUDAFED FOR ANY LEGITIMATE MEDICAL PURPOSE.
Are you a doctor? Or a pharmacist?
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2009, 06:06 PM
whiterabbit whiterabbit is offline
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I am curious as to why they bother making 24 hour Sudafed if it has no legitimate reason to exist. Seriously.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:25 PM
tsm tsm is offline
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I am curious as to why they bother making 24 hour Sudafed if it has no legitimate reason to exist. Seriously.
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Obviously someone thinks there is a need for it.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:35 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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I just looked through these regulations (PDF) and found nothing allowing a seller to deny a sale based on their determination on whether or not an OTC product has a legitimate medical use.
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2009, 07:27 PM
Rigamarole Rigamarole is offline
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YOU DO NOT NEED 24 HOUR SUDAFED FOR ANY LEGITIMATE MEDICAL PURPOSE.
I think someone is about to get a letter from Sudafed®'s lawyers.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2009, 08:29 PM
Martini Enfield Martini Enfield is offline
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I'm one of those unfortunate people for who finds Phenylephrine to be absolutely and completely useless for clearing their congestion. Honestly, I might as well take Tic-Tacs for my colds, as at least that way I'll have minty fresh breath to sneeze everywhere.

Fortunately, I can still get "Regular" Sudafed and Coldral from the chemist, provided I show them my driver's licence. They run a check through the computer system to make sure I haven't brought lots of it recently, then I get a sort of "on the spot prescription" for it and can thus purchase the medicine I need to banish my symptoms.

All I can say is that if a chemist decided one day that I didn't need a single box of Sudafed (or the Generic brand with the same active ingredient), you can bet I'd never go there again.

There are lots of things that have "no legitimate use" that are- and should remain- perfectly legal for anyone who wants them. A car that can drive at 250km/h has no practical use in most places, yet it is not up to a car salesman to say "Sorry, I'm not selling you this particular car as no-one in this country has a legitimate reason to drive at 250km/h, and you might use the car as a getaway vehicle too."

There are plenty of ways to divert someone who wants The Full Strength Stuff to a lesser strength version with the same active ingredient. So, if someone wants Sudafed 24 Hour (not available here, but I imagine it's got quite a bit of kick and may be more medicine than is strictly necessary) and they've really only got a nasty cold, surely you could recommend the Regular Strength Stuff to them, perhaps with a friendly warning that the Full Strength Stuff will keep them awake for hours or could show up negatively on a police/workplace random drug test or impair their ability to drive a Motor Vehicle or something that will make them think they're choosing the Regular Stuff for the "right" reasons- and not because the chemist (or chemist's assistant) doesn't think anyone should have access to a particular medicine for whatever reason.
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:03 PM
postcards postcards is offline
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...Having a sinus headache isn't going to make you unable to get out of bed...
You have obviously never had a sinus headache.
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:25 PM
Risha Risha is offline
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I'm one of those unfortunate people for who finds Phenylephrine to be absolutely and completely useless for clearing their congestion. Honestly, I might as well take Tic-Tacs for my colds, as at least that way I'll have minty fresh breath to sneeze everywhere.
Me too. I've never thought of trying 24 Hour Sudafed, but now I'm kind of thinking I should give it a shot the next time I have horrible congestion, if it's really that strong.
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  #25  
Old 07-11-2009, 11:12 PM
Washoe Washoe is offline
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Quite frankly, I think you deserved to have your ass reamed by the DM. You are a pharmacy technician, not a clinician. And even if you were a clinician, you are not their (your customer’s) prescriber. All I ever buy is 120’s. Every single time I walk into a pharmacy the same thing happens—I look the knuckle-dragging tech straight in the eye and say “I need some pseudo—120 milligrams.” They shuffle back to the cabinet and come back with 30 milligram tablets. I hang my head and weep. “No, I said 120 milligrams,” I wearily inform them. “Oh,” they say, and shuffle back to the cabinet. And I’ve been known to buy 240’s as well. If you pulled that shit on me, I’d look your ass up in the state database (that’s the CA one) and scream bloody murder to the board. Your implication that only smurfs buy 240’s is preposterous. Besides, don’t you know how to spot three tweekers in a supermarket? They’ve got the cart upside down and they’re trying to fix the wheel.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:13 AM
anson2995 anson2995 is offline
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Quite frankly, I think you deserved to have your ass reamed by the DM. You are a pharmacy technician, not a clinician. And even if you were a clinician, you are not their (your customer’s) prescriber.
The point is that there are laws regarding the distribution of pseudophedrine, and the OP believes that he/she is following the law while being asked to skirt or even ignore the law by the employer. A pharmacy tech may not be trained to make a clinical diagnosis, but he/she can recognize illicit purchasing patterns. That's the whole point of the legislation.

The OP asks... "Missouri's board of pharmacy has some clause somewhere on the internet that people can be refused PSE if the person selling it believes it will be used for illicit purposes. Where can I find such information about my state?"

The answer is The Arkansas State Board of Pharmacy. Call or write them and ask for clarification.

Last edited by anson2995; 07-12-2009 at 10:15 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:53 PM
chaoticbear chaoticbear is offline
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Originally Posted by anson2995 View Post
The point is that there are laws regarding the distribution of pseudophedrine, and the OP believes that he/she is following the law while being asked to skirt or even ignore the law by the employer. A pharmacy tech may not be trained to make a clinical diagnosis, but he/she can recognize illicit purchasing patterns. That's the whole point of the legislation.

The OP asks... "Missouri's board of pharmacy has some clause somewhere on the internet that people can be refused PSE if the person selling it believes it will be used for illicit purposes. Where can I find such information about my state?"

The answer is The Arkansas State Board of Pharmacy. Call or write them and ask for clarification.
That was the consensus among the pharmacists I work under, as well. I believe one of them is contacting the ASBoP this week, but I was hoping that someone would happen to have some online searchable thing to go off of. Thanks for the help, those of you who did.
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Old 07-13-2009, 11:22 AM
kayaker kayaker is offline
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Personally, I'd rather see 1,000,000 packages sold to people who were planning on using it for illicit purposes than to see one legitimate purchase denied.
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  #29  
Old 07-13-2009, 11:23 AM
SmackFu SmackFu is offline
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It sounds like it is your mission to stop PSE purchases for unsavory uses. It doesn't sound like your employers agree with this. I'm not sure that citing things is your best solution to this dilemma.
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  #30  
Old 07-13-2009, 11:40 AM
ZenBeam ZenBeam is offline
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Originally Posted by anson2995 View Post
The point is that there are laws regarding the distribution of pseudophedrine, and the OP believes that he/she is following the law while being asked to skirt or even ignore the law by the employer. A pharmacy tech may not be trained to make a clinical diagnosis, but he/she can recognize illicit purchasing patterns. That's the whole point of the legislation.
Some of the reasons the OP gave for turning people away seem overly strict, and aren't just following the point of the law: "Turning out-of-towners away", "Turning people away who are buying it for someone else", "Turning people away when they have a health condition that precludes them using PSE". (On that last one, maybe her doctor told her it was OK. Or maybe she was really buying it for her husband, and had previously been turned away for that...)
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:19 PM
Honesty Honesty is offline
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Originally Posted by chaoticbear View Post
I think that everyone here is missing the point. YOU DO NOT NEED 24 HOUR SUDAFED FOR ANY LEGITIMATE MEDICAL PURPOSE. .
I'm one of those lucky people who don't have allergies - knock on wood - and can't think if I've ever used Sudafed or not. Based on what I understand, the medication is fast-acting, stops mucus production and dilates airways in the lungs; can you understand how ridiculously useful this can be to someone who is suffering from a bad cold or allergies? I don't know how much Sudafed is needed to make meth. Does anyone know?

This isn't Communist Russia or North Korea - this is the United States of America and you have no business obstructing people's right to legally acquire federally approved medication. If you think you know more, why don't you join the FDA advisory panel? All you need is a doctorate.

- Honesty
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  #32  
Old 07-13-2009, 12:29 PM
JerseyFrank JerseyFrank is offline
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I need Sudafed twice a year, for extended periods. Spring & Fall allergy seasons. I've got a prescription antihistamine. I've got a saline nasal rinse kit. I've got an inhaler. But sometimes, even after using those things, I still need my sinuses cleared.

If there's anything this thread has brought me, it's the knowledge that there's more available than just asking for pseudoephedrine at the counter. I'm going straight for the 24-hour kind next time. Not because I'm a meth-head. Not because I'm trying to make a point to the OP. No, it's because it sounds like something I could really use.

Thanks!
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:06 PM
Bren_Cameron Bren_Cameron is offline
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Originally Posted by Risha View Post
Me too. I've never thought of trying 24 Hour Sudafed, but now I'm kind of thinking I should give it a shot the next time I have horrible congestion, if it's really that strong.
I love 24 hour sudafed, but can't always find it. 12 hour is also very nice. When I'm congested, I find the steady dose keeps me more comfortably clear, where with the 4-6 hour stuff I feel like it takes an hour or so to start clearing things, then two hours later it's wearing off. With 12 and 24, it ramps up and then...keeps working. It is so much more comfortable.

And phenylephrine is one hundred percent useless.

That said, I sympathize with the OP's frustration. Supposedly all these goofy hoops we have to jump through to get a real decongestant is limiting the amount of pseudoephedrine that's getting turned into meth--if pharmacies aren't going to actually take any steps to do that, why am I bothering to do the song and dance?
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:14 PM
Risha Risha is offline
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Originally Posted by Bren_Cameron View Post
That said, I sympathize with the OP's frustration. Supposedly all these goofy hoops we have to jump through to get a real decongestant is limiting the amount of pseudoephedrine that's getting turned into meth--if pharmacies aren't going to actually take any steps to do that, why am I bothering to do the song and dance?
I think that most of us don't necessarily have a problem with pharmacies taking steps to limit access. The problem is with the OP's seemingly arbitrary list of rules, and his belief that no one who isn't a meth head should ever need to buy the stuff. I'd be pissed, legitimately I feel, if I chose to go to a pharmacy near work on my way home and was denied because I didn't live in that town.
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:53 PM
ladyfoxfyre ladyfoxfyre is offline
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Originally Posted by chaoticbear View Post
YOU DO NOT NEED 24 HOUR SUDAFED FOR ANY LEGITIMATE MEDICAL PURPOSE.
I'm sorry dude, but you're flat out wrong here and by saying this you're making yourself look like an ass. I've been on your side of the counter for 4 years, so I do feel for you. But give it up. I tried to play Meth Police and pick and judge every potential buyer for things but the fact of the matter is it's not controlled and it's not your job.
You don't have to set up fictitious parameters within which only criminals and junkies operate. You just need to follow the laws you're required to follow and do due diligence, notifying the appropriate authorities when you think it's necessary.
No matter what your RPhs say or how much they agree with you, all pharmacies hate junkies. It's one thing if you may lose your license by dispensing something you think can be used inappropriately, but until PSE becomes scheduled don't go crazy thinking it's your responsibility to keep the streets clean.
IME.
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  #36  
Old 07-13-2009, 10:11 PM
Randolph Randolph is offline
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Originally Posted by chaoticbear View Post
YOU DO NOT NEED 24 HOUR SUDAFED FOR ANY LEGITIMATE MEDICAL PURPOSE.
As people are pointing out, this is a ridiculous statement. I use 24-hour Sudafed and Claritin-D all the time. When I swim - and I swim a lot - I often get sinusitis from the chlorine. I can either be a miserable mess for the rest of the day, or take a pill (along with the usual neti pot / etcetera defenses) and be much clearer. And a 12-hour pill seems to wear off right before bedtime and makes it tough to get a good night's sleep.

I would be quite pissed off if someone decided to play amateur judge and jury with my legitimate medicinal needs.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:28 PM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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The role you are taking on is IMHO a burden that you don't have to carry and can do you no good.
Also I have never used 24 hr Sudafed, I didn't know it even existed, but I know years ago I used Actifed (Do they still make this?) and it was the only thing that worked. Perhaps the 24 Sudafed really works for some people.
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  #38  
Old 07-14-2009, 12:52 AM
Magiver Magiver is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2003
It just dawned on me, I'm not just a meth dealer, I'm a drug lord.
Lets look at the math:

24 hr sudafed comes in only a 10 pack size. 10 x 240 mg = 2400 mg.
I buy regular generic sudafed in the 96 count size. 96 x 30 mg = 2880 mg.

Not only am I buying 20 percent more but I'm getting it at a reduced cost. The last time I bought it was from a grocery store and they had a special on the 48 count house brand so I bought 2 of them cheaper than the 96 count.
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  #39  
Old 07-14-2009, 09:10 AM
Eva Luna Eva Luna is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Chicago-ish, IL
Posts: 9,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini Enfield View Post
I'm one of those unfortunate people for who finds Phenylephrine to be absolutely and completely useless for clearing their congestion. Honestly, I might as well take Tic-Tacs for my colds, as at least that way I'll have minty fresh breath to sneeze everywhere.
Well, I have the opposite problem; phenylephrine works for purposes of clearing my sinuses, but it also makes me violently ill, as in the last time I took it, it jacked up my pulse and blood pressure 30 points each and made me so dizzy I had to go home from work and lie down until it wore off. Silly me; I hadn't bought Sudafed in so long that I hadn't realized they'd changed the formulation - I just grabbed the familiar-looking box off the shelf.

When I realized what had happened and went to ask the pharmacist for the old formulation, she told me that roughly 30% of people have an adverse reaction to phenylephrine, which was why the makers of Sudafed had stopped using the stuff in the first place. Personally, I'd call that a fabulous clinical indication for using something else. And I'd be REALLY pissed at you if, over my protestations, you insisted that I should take something that I know from personal experience makes me violently ill instead of taking a legal substance, at the pharmaceutically recommended dose, that I know a) works, and b) doesn't make me violently ill.
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  #40  
Old 07-14-2009, 10:40 AM
purplehorseshoe purplehorseshoe is offline
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Location: Texas, USA
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I know this is going to come across as an abortion-rights hijack and I swear it's not ... but the OP reminds me of those right-wing pharmacists who refuse to dispense Plan B to women who come in asking for it.

Mr. Horseshoe occasionally suffers from really serious allergy-related sinus problems, and you can be assured, I know *precisely* which Sudafed to bring home from the drugstore. Like the other posters have said, that phenyl-whatsit does jack shit, while the correctly colored box brings him sweet relief.

ChaoticBear, I understand that you started this thread looking for factual info about state drug laws ... and you got that. You got some links, you got a suggestion to contact your state's board. So I hope that mollifies you a little. The rest of us - the ones you think aren't helping you - are simply posting to express how apalled we are at your original line of thinking.

Perhaps you are in the wrong line of work.

If you would like to tell people what medications they should or shouldn't be taking, you might consider going back to med school and becoming a doctor - you may then write prescriptions, or tell people they shouldn't be using Sudafed.

If you would like to tell people how to live their lives and are interested in interfering with the details of how people run their errands or care for their sick loved ones, you might consider becoming a politician - you may then re-write the laws in as Draconian a manner as you see fit, at least until your constituency kicks you out.

If you would like to go after the meth makers and crack heads of the world, you might consider becoming a cop - you may then arrest drug dealers to your heart's content.

But a pharmacist, pharm tech, or pharm manager does not do any of those things. So if you would like to do those things (and you used the word "quest" in your OP, so I'm guessing this is really near and dear to you) then you might consider a career change.
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  #41  
Old 07-14-2009, 10:55 AM
TJVM TJVM is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
I've got to side with your employer on this one. I think it's perfectly sensible for a large retailer to expect its employees to make sales according to company policy, and not to refuse sales based on personal judgments of whether the customer is "suspicious" in some way. There are a number of reasons to do this:

1. Money. Obviously, your employer shouldn't be able to break the law, but if a given sale is legal, it's reasonable for them to want to make the sale, unless there is some specific reason not to.

2. Customer relations. I can imagine some customers being pretty upset at being denied a sale, not because of the law or even a specific company rule (e.g., can't buy more than X boxes at a time, or must have ID) but just because the person behind the counter thinks you're up to no good.

3. Consistency. If the customers you turned away came back when a different person was on duty, or went to a different location, there's a good chance they'd be served, because it just depends on whether the person on duty finds them suspicious, rather than any specific rules. That will be confusing and frustrating for customers, and also opens the door to the next concern...

4. Discrimination. I'll assume that you personally have the best of intentions here. But if you're a large employer with many front-line employees, how confident are you going to be that they will all make good decisions about who is "suspicious"? How long until someone discovers an employee with a pattern of finding black people suspicious? Or people who "talk funny" or "look weird"?

Of course, all this changes if there's a law specifically prohibiting the sales in question (though from your description, I doubt it). And it might make sense for a store to have some specific policies to combat drug abuse, like not selling too much to one person, or requiring people to show ID. But I can certainly understand why a store (particularly a large retailer, where you don't know all your employees that well) would not want people refusing sales based solely on personal suspicions.
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  #42  
Old 07-14-2009, 06:02 PM
anson2995 anson2995 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Upstate NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJVM View Post
I've got to side with your employer on this one. I think it's perfectly sensible for a large retailer to expect its employees to make sales according to company policy, and not to refuse sales based on personal judgments of whether the customer is "suspicious" in some way. There are a number of reasons to do this:
All fair enough. If the store documents its policies in writing, then I suspect the OP couldn't face criminal or civil liability for following the policies. That's obviously not the case with alcohol sales, and perhaps that's what the OP is concerned about... personal liability.

But maybe he's just frustrated at how well the meth-heads are able to circumvent the poorly conceived law. If that's the case, his beef is with the Congress, not his store's management.
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