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  #1  
Old 07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
ivn1188 ivn1188 is offline
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GFactor, i have no idea what you are trying to say

In this post you made a statement. I am asking you for a clarification on your intent.

re my statement to Finnagain: "So you ask why I post? I like pissing you off because I don't like you", you posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfactor View Post
Were I cynical and middle-aged, I'd be tempted to read this as an admission of trolling. Since I'm not both cynical and middle-aged, today at least, I'll just suggest that you avoid saying things like this because people might accuse you of trolling, and I'd hate to see that. Have a nice weekend and thanks for posting. No warning issued.

Gfactor
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So now I have a couple of questions:

First, it this meant to be a statement that it is improper to have making people angry as a motive for posting in the Pit?

After all, as noted in this scholarly article:

"Troll," in the context of message boards and the like, describes somebody who is posting just to be confrontational or to raise hackles. One example might be a teenager who finds a Jewish message board and posts, "The Holocaust never happened." The teen may not know or care one way or the other--he just wants a reaction.

The key part of this definition appears to be the inclusion of the word "just". That would indicate to me that a troll has the sole motive of causing an uproar. While posting to piss others off might be uncouth, it seems to be normal operating procedure in the pit -- an insult that adds nothing to the discussion is arguably trolling.

Second: are you actually concerned about people calling me a troll, or because you think that I might not actually believe what I am posting? If the former, I can assure you it doesn't bother me, if the latter, you might be confusing "abrasive" with "troll".

Third: what sort of behavior are you concerned with, here? The forum rules provide as little guidance as they ever do, it's in the pit where discourtesy is allowed, and without further guidance, your mod-hat post has a chilling effect -- it's just that i have no idea what you're trying to chill.

(the other half of the sentence, BTW, is provided here for context: "and because maybe there are some people out there that agree and don't want to say it for fear you'll come along and spout your useless blathering at them.")
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2009, 04:47 PM
Gfactor Gfactor is offline
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I'll respond later tonight.
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2009, 04:49 PM
ivn1188 ivn1188 is offline
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Well, it's not like this is an urgent matter. Take your time.
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2009, 04:57 PM
Peter Morris Peter Morris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivn1188 View Post
re my statement to Finnagain: "So you ask why I post? I like pissing you off because I don't like you" ...


"Troll," in the context of message boards and the like, describes somebody who is posting just to be confrontational or to raise hackles.
yeah, exactly. Posting something with the intent of pissing somebody off because you don't like him seems a good match for this definition.



Quote:
The key part of this definition appears to be the inclusion of the word "just". That would indicate to me that a troll has the sole motive of causing an uproar.
Nope. A poster might post useful comments some of the time, and comments designed to piss people off some of the time. That hypothetical poster would still count as a troll. He would just be a part-time troll, not a full-time one.

(Note that I'm speaking hypothetically, and not identifying anyone as that hypothetical poster.)
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2009, 05:24 PM
Gfactor Gfactor is offline
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Turns out I had a few minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivn1188 View Post
So now I have a couple of questions:
First, it this meant to be a statement that it is improper to have making people angry as a motive for posting in the Pit?
This is a close question, actually. If your only motive is to "piss people off," in a confrontational way, then that's trolling.

To raise hackles means "to annoy," http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/raise+hackles

Or "to arouse one's anger."
http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...%27s%20hackles

If you have mixed motives, then not so much. It's pretty well got to be your sole purpose.


Quote:
After all, as noted in this scholarly article:

"Troll," in the context of message boards and the like, describes somebody who is posting just to be confrontational or to raise hackles. One example might be a teenager who finds a Jewish message board and posts, "The Holocaust never happened." The teen may not know or care one way or the other--he just wants a reaction.

The key part of this definition appears to be the inclusion of the word "just". That would indicate to me that a troll has the sole motive of causing an uproar. While posting to piss others off might be uncouth, it seems to be normal operating procedure in the pit -- an insult that adds nothing to the discussion is arguably trolling.
I agree with this as stated above. Lots of stuff gets said in the Pit that pisses people off, and insults are generally only for that purpose. Pitting someone is pretty likely to piss someone off. So you're right, merely pissing someone off in the Pit is standard fare. A post or thread whose sole purpose is to piss a lot of people off, in the "raise the hackles" sense, is a horse of a different color.

Quote:
Second: are you actually concerned about people calling me a troll
This. I got a couple of reports pointing to that post as an admission of trolling. I think it was ambiguous, at best (or worst, or whatever). That's why I wrote a note. I was merely pointing out that statements like this can be seen as an admission of trolling, even though you might not actually be trolling.

Quote:
, or because you think that I might not actually believe what I am posting? If the former, I can assure you it doesn't bother me,
Fine then.
Quote:
if the latter, you might be confusing "abrasive" with "troll".
Good to know.

Quote:
Third: what sort of behavior are you concerned with, here? The forum rules provide as little guidance as they ever do, it's in the pit where discourtesy is allowed, and without further guidance, your mod-hat post has a chilling effect -- it's just that i have no idea what you're trying to chill.
I hope my previous comments have given you some comfort. In the Pit, especially I'm pretty careful about handing out warnings. I'll let you know with a mod note if you're actually close to the line. I can't recall ever issuing a warning for trolling.

Quote:
(the other half of the sentence, BTW, is provided here for context: "and because maybe there are some people out there that agree and don't want to say it for fear you'll come along and spout your useless blathering at them.")
This is a fair clarification. Thanks.
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2009, 05:30 PM
ivn1188 ivn1188 is offline
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Well, that's perfectly acceptable to me, then. I can certainly understand a desire not to be forced to wade through a bunch of reports.

I was semi-concerned that it was some sort of oblique hint, but it appears that that concern was unfounded.

Thanks for the reply.
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  #7  
Old 07-31-2009, 05:39 PM
Gfactor Gfactor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivn1188 View Post
Thanks for the reply.
Any time.
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  #8  
Old 07-31-2009, 07:55 PM
tacoloco tacoloco is offline
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I swear people here over think every little fucking thing.

"The key part of this definition appears to be the inclusion of the word "just"."

*facepalm*
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  #9  
Old 07-31-2009, 09:35 PM
ivn1188 ivn1188 is offline
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Given that "troll" is one of the top methods of dismissing someone, and even saying troll is against the rules everywhere but the pit, and that actual "trolling" is cause for banning, I'd have to disagree that there's over-thinking going on.

You might be satisfied with vague rules, but I believe in predictability. And it was the topic of an actual Straight Dope column, so I'm not the only one overthinking it.
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  #10  
Old 07-31-2009, 10:20 PM
tacoloco tacoloco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivn1188 View Post
Given that "troll" is one of the top methods of dismissing someone, and even saying troll is against the rules everywhere but the pit, and that actual "trolling" is cause for banning, I'd have to disagree that there's over-thinking going on.

You might be satisfied with vague rules, but I believe in predictability. And it was the topic of an actual Straight Dope column, so I'm not the only one overthinking it.
My point is that everything doesn't need to be codified in rules.

It seems common sense to me that telling someone "So you ask why I post? I like pissing you off because I don't like you" is usually intended to provoke someone. While it may not be a dictionary definition of trolling, it is certainly commonly considered to be a form of trolling.

The over thinking comment wasn't specifically directly at this post. Maybe I just need to make peace with it, but it sure seems like a lot of people want to examine every rule in detail and want to scrutinize everything little thing the mods and admins do.
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