Will the Voyager Golden Record disintegrate in space?

[No Wikipedia Cites]

The Voyager Golden Record was launched with Voyager I; some people objected to it , saying that if space aliens find it, it could give them a map to our planet, and they could steal our clean water, etc.

An astronomer (From the "Teching Company"'s lectures) said this was absurd because not only will it take 40,000 years to come even "close" with another star system, but it will eventual disintegrate.

Will the Voyager, or /and its golden record, disintegrate over the tens of thousands of years? Or will it be permanently out there till the end of the universe? What is the level of interstellar erosion out there?

[The Great Sun Jester]

No answer for you, and I apologize for this hijack but...People with interstellar travel capability would not be able to create clean water? Was this really an objection?

[Chronos]

Eventually, everything falls apart, but a mere 40,000 years in interstellar space isn't going to be near enough to do it.

Of course, the Voyager records (and the Pioneer plaques before them) were never really about communicating with aliens, but with humans. It didn't cost much to put them on, and it got folks more interested in the missions.

[hajario]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

No answer for you, and I apologize for this hijack but...People with interstellar travel capability would not be able to create clean water? Was this really an objection?

That wasn't the exact objection. The concept was that we really have no idea what is out there. Most likely, no intelligent life will ever find the thing but if they do what would they be like? They could be totally benevolent and teach us how to make 99.9% efficient engines and stop all of our wars or they could squash up like bugs just for the fun of it. Some people felt that it was reckless and it could cause our doom.

[HorseloverFat]

Its considered a stunt for the most part. If a civilization can capture this thing without destroying it, decode it, and understand it, they probably already know how to find life in the universe, like we are doing now by indirectly detecting planets.

Nothing really happens in 40k years. The star its getting near is a collapsed dwarf unlikely to be part of system with life. Heck, even if it was, 1.6 light years away is pretty damn far. Thats like aliens trying to get our attention by sending something between us and Alpha Centauri. Even if you imagine a high level of sophisication, it seems like a real crapshoot.

[No Wikipedia Cites]

The water objection was not something I believe in, but based on popular myth; namely there was a movie where the space aliens invaded to get Earth's clean water. Of course, the astronomer explained that it is cheaper to chemically manufacture H20 at home rather than bring it across the galaxy.

[Zsofia]

There are people who were upset because the pictures of ourselves that we were sending to inscrutable aliens were naked.

[muttrox]

That was a SF story. Was it based in fact?

[Harmonious Discord]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

There are people who were upset because the pictures of ourselves that we were sending to inscrutable aliens were naked.

Would we be embarrassed now to have dressed the woman in a mini skirt or hot pants, skimpy top and thigh high boots? The guy would have had to wear flared pants and a ruffled shirt with a fringed leather vest and platform shoes.

[Giles]

Originally Posted by muttrox

That was a SF story. Was it based in fact?

Yes:
Pioneer plaque
Voyager Golden Record

(It all seems a long time ago now!)

[Sailboat]

Originally Posted by sassyfras

The Voyager Golden Record was launched with Voyager I; some people objected to it , saying that if space aliens find it, it could give them a map to our planet, and they could steal our clean water, etc.

Allegedly Stephen Hawking, among others, has voiced the idea that advertising our presence in this way is a bad idea in general. Aliens who can do anything about it (i.e., visit us) are, simply by virtue of being able to come visit, vastly superior to us technologically (and perhaps in other ways). Historically, encounters between advanced and primitive civilizations have rarely gone well for the primitives.

[Stranger On A Train]

Originally Posted by sassyfras

The water objection was not something I believe in, but based on popular myth; namely there was a movie where the space aliens invaded to get Earth's clean water. Of course, the astronomer explained that it is cheaper to chemically manufacture H20 at home rather than bring it across the galaxy.

The Ice Pirates?

Assuming the record remains protected within the chassis of the Voyager vehicle and isn't subjected to some mysterious massive source of neutron radiation or a cloud of high velocity dust, the natural decay rate of protons and confined neutrons is somewhere betweeen 10[/sup]36[/sup] seconds and never. I don't know where the astronomer cited in the o.p. got his information, but assuming that the answer was provided in context, he is completely off base.

As far as encouraging aliens to invade us in order to take our water, women, or lizards, we are currently radiating like a small star in the radio frequency due to radio and television broadcasting, so it isn't as if we are making much of an effort to stay concealed. On the other hand, invading Earth would require traveling across vast reaches of space and demanding enormous energies to do so in any reasonable timeframe, so said aliens would either have to be really motivated or have some kind of Star Trek-ish beyond magic propulsion system. One would assume by the time a civilization attained that level of technology they'd have better things to do than piss around with a bunch of hairless monkeys whose idea of high technology is dairy-free creamer and Youtube.com. Besides, all we have to do is send up a wisecracking Will Smith opposite a babbling Jeff Goldblum with a PowerBook and a catchphrase, and it'll be all over for the bug-eyed aliens.

Stranger

[MeDrewNotYou]

Originally Posted by Harmonious Discord

Would we be embarrassed now to have dressed the woman in a mini skirt or hot pants, skimpy top and thigh high boots? The guy would have had to wear flared pants and a ruffled shirt with a fringed leather vest and platform shoes.

Our collective guilt for 70's fashions is reason enough for the alien overlords to come take over. All the sex, drugs, and rock and roll in the world doesn't make up for hot pants and platform shoes.

[WarmNPrickly]

Originally Posted by sassyfras

The water objection was not something I believe in, but based on popular myth; namely there was a movie where the space aliens invaded to get Earth's clean water. Of course, the astronomer explained that it is cheaper to chemically manufacture H20 at home rather than bring it across the galaxy.

They did it in V. I'm sure they were the first.

[Chronos]

Would we be embarrassed now to have dressed the woman in a mini skirt or hot pants, skimpy top and thigh high boots? The guy would have had to wear flared pants and a ruffled shirt with a fringed leather vest and platform shoes.

Fortunately, naked never goes out of style.

The other benefit is that I can wear a T-shirt that has pictures of nekkid people on it, and nobody bats an eyelash at it (it's the Pioneer plaque, with the caption "Attack Here").

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

There are people who were upset because the pictures of ourselves that we were sending to inscrutable aliens were naked.

When I was an undergraduate at Cornell, I went to a lecture by Sagan, who was then on the faculty, in which he discussed the planning and making of the record. He mentioned they got flak from some quarters for sending "smut to the stars."

[Elendil's Heir]

I remember from Sagan's Cosmos that the records are very durable, well-protected and likely to last as long as the spacecraft themselves. FYI, the probes were featured in The X-Files, Starman and Star Trek: The Motion Picture, too.

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train

The Ice Pirates?

There was also The Man Who Fell To Earth, about an alien who comes to Earth so find a way to ship water back to his drought-stricken planet.

[Icerigger]

The New Horizons spacecraft is on it's way to Pluto and will leave the solar system as well, I wonder if there is any kind of message like the Voyagers & Pioneers? Being only the 5th interstellar mission I find it hard to believe there was no effort to inculde some kind of marker.

[Triskadecamus]

If there are a trillion interstellar space faring civilization in the universe, on the average, they would be more than 100,000 light years apart.

God evidently understands sterile technique.

Tris

[Elendil's Heir]

Originally Posted by Icerigger

The New Horizons spacecraft is on it's way to Pluto and will leave the solar system as well, I wonder if there is any kind of message like the Voyagers & Pioneers? Being only the 5th interstellar mission I find it hard to believe there was no effort to inculde some kind of marker.

From Wiki:

In addition to the scientific equipment, there are several cultural artifacts travelling with the spacecraft. These include a collection of 434,738 names stored on a compact disc, a piece of Scaled Composites SpaceShipOne, and an American flag, along with other mementos. One of the trim weights on the spacecraft is a Florida state quarter, and principal investigator Alan Stern has also confirmed that some of the ashes of Pluto discoverer Clyde Tombaugh are aboard the spacecraft.

[Rocketeer]

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train

Assuming the record remains protected within the chassis of the Voyager vehicle and isn't subjected to some mysterious massive source of neutron radiation or a cloud of high velocity dust, the natural decay rate of protons and confined neutrons is somewhere betweeen 10[/sup]36[/sup] seconds and never. I don't know where the astronomer cited in the o.p. got his information, but assuming that the answer was provided in context, he is completely off base.
Stranger

How about sublimation of the gold, evaporating off into the vacuum?

[Captain Carrot]

Incidentally, in Star Trek they had a competition relating to the Voyager plaque. Representatives from many different species tried to translate it. Not even the Vulcans managed to decipher anything there, if I recall correctly.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by Captain Carrot

Incidentally, in Star Trek they had a competition relating to the Voyager plaque. Representatives from many different species tried to translate it. Not even the Vulcans managed to decipher anything there, if I recall correctly.

Which Star Trek is that?

[Stranger On A Train]

Originally Posted by Rocketeer

How about sublimation of the gold, evaporating off into the vacuum?

Virtually insignificant, even over billions of years. Without a thermal radiation source (the RTG will be almost completely inert lead inside of a few million years) almost no atom will move, and the lack of reactivity with other substances means that even solid state migration will be negligible.

Stranger

[Captain_Awesome]

Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir

From Wiki:

In addition to the scientific equipment, there are several cultural artifacts travelling with the spacecraft. These include a collection of 434,738 names stored on a compact disc...

Oh fantastic, Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs will be so pleased. They'd been at a loss as to what happened to them.

[dtilque]

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train

Assuming the record remains protected within the chassis of the Voyager vehicle and isn't subjected to some mysterious massive source of neutron radiation or a cloud of high velocity dust, the natural decay rate of protons and confined neutrons is somewhere betweeen 10³⁶ seconds and never.

The entire probe should be dust long before 10³⁶ seconds. Cosmic radiation weakens metal. After a long enough time, the metal of the probe will be so fragile that an impact with a dust particle will be enough to crumble it into itty-bitty pieces.

[smiling bandit]

A better reason not to send naked pictures of ourselves into outer space... is that humans are not naturally naked. Yes, we're born that way, but humans are ingrained to create and wear clothing.

[Icerigger]

I must add it has been 32 years since these probes have been launched and they are still operational, 32 years!! The JPL people must really be proud.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train

The Ice Pirates?

"V"?

(curse you all!)

-Joe

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by smiling bandit

A better reason not to send naked pictures of ourselves into outer space... is that humans are not naturally naked. Yes, we're born that way, but humans are ingrained to create and wear clothing.

You're right. They should have put togas on the picture.

Wait, this is aliens we're talking about. They should have had everyone in shiny silver jumpsuits with large lapels.

-Joe

[The Tao's Revenge]

Originally Posted by smiling bandit

A better reason not to send naked pictures of ourselves into outer space... is that humans are not naturally naked. Yes, we're born that way, but humans are ingrained to create and wear clothing.

Do you have a cite for this? It seems to be more social trained, a relic of religious prohibitions, to me.

[HorseloverFat]

>Yes, we're born that way, but humans are ingrained to create and wear clothing.

The pictures are accurate medical descriptions of our bodies. Humans are also naturally either sleeping, working, warring, or fucking, but we chose them to just stand there naked and look vaguely friendly.

I can imagine putting little shorts on them only to find aliens scratching their heads when they finally meet us. Many alien PhDs will lose face after their "Humans: Reproduction without Genitals" papers become discredited.

[Yllaria]

In ST:TMP, a Voyager melded with a larger robot probe and came back to get us.

In (I think) ST:5, a probe with the gold record on it was blown up by a Klingon captain for target practice.

[Captain Carrot]

Originally Posted by billfish678

Which Star Trek is that?

I have no idea. I think TNG, but I could easily be wrong.