Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by E-Sabbath

I rather like how Tarquin clearly expected Elan to be the big badass.

Tarquin still thinks Elan is the leader of the Order, I think.

[cckerberos]

Originally Posted by Lightray

We've seen her use a knife (Crystal's, when she gacked Crystal). And she used a sap at some point in the whole Greysky Thieves' Guild plotline, I think. Plus, she's stabbed Sabine with arrows sans bow at least once.

Also, this comic.

[Quartz]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

To clarify: I know Deflect Arrows is a feat like any other, it's just that on the whole it's a shit feat.

I'm not so sure: remember that with Manyshot, only the first arrow carries critical and precision (e.g. Sneak Attack) damage. And despite the name, it also applies to thrown spears, javelins, darts, and more.

And it's definitely not shit when you take it as a prerequisite. It's a requirement for two badass Epic feats: Infinite Deflection and Reflect Arrows.

[Gyrate]

I don't know about anyone else but in some of these battle comics I always have a bit of dissonance between my D&D brain and my realistic brain. Normally a guy who just took three arrows, a dagger to the leg and a sword through the torso would be in bad shape, but then we saw Roy's head being used to knock down a building and he walked away from that. Hit points are invisible, and hit points in the service of a narrative doubly so.

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by Quartz

And it's definitely not shit when you take it as a prerequisite. It's a requirement for two badass Epic feats: Infinite Deflection and Reflect Arrows.

In the Epic levels you're fighting legions of dragons or duelling gods, the ranged attacks you might take are giant boulders flung by Cloud Giants, and of course spellcasters doublecast Disintegrations at you (not to mention, the friendly ones can most definitely shield you from arrows entirely anyway), so...

[Enderw24]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

Normally a guy who just took three arrows, a dagger to the leg

To the leg? Yes. To the knee? Your adventuring days are over.

[Quartz]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

In the Epic levels... the ranged attacks you might take are giant boulders flung by Cloud Giants,

And you're Enlarged so you can catch them and chuck them right back.

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

They also serve, who only stand and distract the bad guy.

Elan participated.

[Chronos]

I don't know about anyone else but in some of these battle comics I always have a bit of dissonance between my D&D brain and my realistic brain. Normally a guy who just took three arrows, a dagger to the leg and a sword through the torso would be in bad shape, but then we saw Roy's head being used to knock down a building and he walked away from that. Hit points are invisible, and hit points in the service of a narrative doubly so.

Does reality strain your suspension of disbelief, too? Because there really are real badasses in the real world who really do shrug off damage like that.

[Peter Morris]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Does reality strain your suspension of disbelief, too? Because there really are real badasses in the real world who really do shrug off damage like that.

Cite? There are people who can knock down a building with their head, and walk away afterwards? Who?

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by Peter Morris

Cite? There are people who can knock down a building with their head, and walk away afterwards? Who?

George Washington.

[Saltire]

Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper

After shrugging off the "Hold Person" spell, he punnily reached forward to hold a person (namely, Durkon) and spun around in place like an Olympic hammer-thrower, causing the guy he'd grabbed to build up momentum before a fine bit of dwarf-tossing. Same combat move our hero does in SUPERMAN II, if that helps you.

Seems to have grabbed, swung, and tossed that dwarf by gripping him by the beard. Ouch!

[Agent Foxtrot]

Ten bucks says that's not Tarquin they're fighting.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Agent Foxtrot

Ten bucks says that's not Tarquin they're fighting.

Huh? Nale, Malack and the kobold accountant all address him as they would Tarquin ("Dad", "Tarquin" and "Sir", respectively).

[Miller]

Originally Posted by Agent Foxtrot

Ten bucks says that's not Tarquin they're fighting.

You think its someone pretending to be Tarquin pretending to be Thog?

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Miller

You think its someone pretending to be Tarquin pretending to be Thog?

Hell, I don't even know who would be a CANDIDATE for that possibility right now. I mean, theoretically, it could be one of the Evil Inc. triumvirate, but that's a REALLY long shot.

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by jayjay

Hell, I don't even know who would be a CANDIDATE for that possibility right now.

Foxtrot could be figuring it's one of Girard's illusions, but that seems unlikely.

[Agent Foxtrot]

The helmet serves a dual purpose: a disguise against OOTS, and a disguise against the reader.

Tarquin, as excellent a fighter as he may be, is far too smart to put himself in a combat situation where he isn't guaranteed to win. He has no reason to throw his life away. He also has no reason to trust the Linear Guild, so he's not going to engage one-vs.-five against several high-level combatants and just trust that the Linear Guild isn't going to screw it up or stab him in the back, even with Malack there to keep them honest.

In fact, I think he even knew that he wasn't going to win one-vs.-five, which makes it all the more likely that it's not him under that helmet.

I think the Linear Guild is about to be just as surprised as the OOTS at what's going to happen next.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Agent Foxtrot

The helmet serves a dual purpose: a disguise against OOTS, and a disguise against the reader.

Tarquin, as excellent a fighter as he may be, is far too smart to put himself in a combat situation where he isn't guaranteed to win. He has no reason to throw his life away. He also has no reason to trust the Linear Guild, so he's not going to engage one-vs.-five against several high-level combatants and just trust that the Linear Guild isn't going to screw it up or stab him in the back, even with Malack there to keep them honest.

In fact, I think he even knew that he wasn't going to win one-vs.-five, which makes it all the more likely that it's not him under that helmet.

I think the Linear Guild is about to be just as surprised as the OOTS at what's going to happen next.

So who IS it? "Tarquin" has been interacting with a) a son who's known him his entire life and b) a "business partner" who's known him for YEARS right up until he launched himself into this combat, and neither one appears to have the slightest inkling that it wasn't Tarquin they were speaking with the whole time.

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by Agent Foxtrot

Tarquin, as excellent a fighter as he may be, is far too smart to put himself in a combat situation where he isn't guaranteed to win. He has no reason to throw his life away. He also has no reason to trust the Linear Guild, so he's not going to engage one-vs.-five against several high-level combatants and just trust that the Linear Guild isn't going to screw it up or stab him in the back, even with Malack there to keep them honest.

Malack's there to bring him back from the dead if he 'throws his life away' -- which Tarquin doesn't figure has a chance of happening unless it makes for a really terrific story.

[Chronos]

Plus, whoever's under that helmet is an extremely competent warrior, of the likes of which Tarquin is the only known example. Any objection to it being Tarquin would equally well apply to anyone else (even someone not yet met) it could be: Mystery Warrior wouldn't have any reason to throw his life away, either.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper

Malack's there to bring him back from the dead if he 'throws his life away' -- which Tarquin doesn't figure has a chance of happening unless it makes for a really terrific story.

I don't know if that's an option...remember, Malack couldn't bring his own children back. We don't know if it was circumstances, the method of their deaths, or the fact that he's the priest of a death god (who might not hand out Resurrection spells like candy...they eat into his profits) that caused him not to be able to return his children to him. He may not HAVE Resurrection as a casually available spell because of any number of circumstances.

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by Miller

You think its someone pretending to be Tarquin pretending to be Thog?

He knows who he is ! He's the dude playin' the dude disguised as another dude !

[Strassia]

Originally Posted by jayjay

I don't know if that's an option...remember, Malack couldn't bring his own children back. We don't know if it was circumstances, the method of their deaths, or the fact that he's the priest of a death god (who might not hand out Resurrection spells like candy...they eat into his profits) that caused him not to be able to return his children to him. He may not HAVE Resurrection as a casually available spell because of any number of circumstances.

I think it has been established that it is almost impossible to bring children back. They always go to their alignment paradise and they have no pressing duties calling them back. See here.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Strassia

I think it has been established that it is almost impossible to bring children back. They always go to their alignment paradise and they have no pressing duties calling them back. See here.

Darn you...I'd forgotten about that strip. That's one of the ones that always grabs me by the tear ducts and just squeezes... *snif*

[Agent Foxtrot]

We'll see. Tarquin just going down like that in battle against his son with no grandiosity or fanfare totally flies in the face of his beliefs.

[Reno Nevada]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

He knows who he is ! He's the dude playin' the dude disguised as another dude !

The obvious candidate for this line of thinking would be Thog. Thog is pretending to be Tarquin pretending to be Thog.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by Agent Foxtrot

We'll see. Tarquin just going down like that in battle against his son with no grandiosity or fanfare totally flies in the face of his beliefs.

He hasn't gone down yet.

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by Agent Foxtrot

We'll see. Tarquin just going down like that in battle against his son with no grandiosity or fanfare totally flies in the face of his beliefs.

Defeating them single-handed would be grand, but battling them to a standstill is sufficiently impressive if it provides his teammates with a suitably magnificent diversion.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Reno Nevada

The obvious candidate for this line of thinking would be Thog. Thog is pretending to be Tarquin pretending to be Thog.

Thog can barely keep straight that he actually IS Thog. There's no way he can keep straight that he's Thog pretending to be Tarquin pretending to be Thog.

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by Agent Foxtrot

We'll see. Tarquin just going down like that in battle against his son with no grandiosity or fanfare totally flies in the face of his beliefs.

But what if he then removes his helmet, revealing that Elan just killed his own father?

[kaylasdad99]

Originally Posted by Grumman

But what if he then removes his helmet, revealing that Elan just killed his own father?

That kind of thing would be right up Elan's alley. I think he'd get over it.

[FinnAgain]

Originally Posted by Miller

He hasn't gone down yet.

Pretty sure that there was a slavegirl off-panel a few episodes back...

[Little Nemo]

A question about Vaarsuvius' androgyny.

We know that Roy, Belkar, and Durkon are confused over whether V is a man or a woman. But I've always assumed that Haley knows and just hasn't said anything (due to the Rule of Funny). Am I correct or has Haley ever said anything in the strip to indicate she's also unaware of V's gender? And what about Elan? Has he ever said anything on the subject?

[squeegee]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

A question about Vaarsuvius' androgyny.

We know that Roy, Belkar, and Durkon are confused over whether V is a man or a woman. But I've always assumed that Haley knows and just hasn't said anything (due to the Rule of Funny). Am I correct or has Haley ever said anything in the strip to indicate she's also unaware of V's gender? And what about Elan? Has he ever said anything on the subject?

No and no, to the best of my recollection. And it's not clear to me that the V's race even has a gender.

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by squeegee

No and no, to the best of my recollection. And it's not clear to me that the V's race even has a gender.

Many of the other characters feel it's an issue which they wouldn't do if elves didn't have genders.

[squeegee]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

Many of the other characters feel it's an issue which they wouldn't do if elves didn't have genders.

I was making a joke, and should have added a smiley. But seriously, it really isn't clear to me if Elves in the Stickverse have genders; the members of the Order may be as clueless about this as we are, esp. if, like V, all the elves anyone meets don't even understand that this is a question, responding: "gender? what's that?" as V seems to on occasion. Though to be fair, V has used pronouns correctly if occasionally, so maybe nobody has posed the right question to her.

[Chronos]

We have seen some unambiguously-female elves, and the existence of half-elves implies that the elvish reproductive scheme is (or at least can be) compatible with humans.

Personally, I think that V's gender is 1/sqrt(2) (|male> + |female>), while Inkyrius's gender is 1/sqrt(2) (|male> - |female>). And this board is one of very few places I could say that and be understood by anyone.

[Gagundathar]

We, of course, also know that V has a life partner ... or did.
It matters not to me if V is male or female.
But, perhaps interviewing this entity might make sense.

However, it occurs to me that V's mate is not available for comment as in 'dead.
Maybe I am wrong.

[Alessan]

Originally Posted by Gagundathar

However, it occurs to me that V's mate is not available for comment as in 'dead.
Maybe I am wrong.

Well, he or she was alive enough to file for divorce.

[Jonathan Chance]

Remember, too, that V got in the habit of going invisible to pee as an attempt to frustrate Belkar's attempts to establish ers gender. V knows what gender is, has one, and is intentionally concealing it for ers own purposes.

[Malleus, Incus, Stapes!]

V is Schroedinger's Elf. Hir biological sex is undefined until a character with a clearly-defined gender-identity takes a look.

[ultrafilter]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Personally, I think that V's gender is 1/sqrt(2) (|male> + |female>), while Inkyrius's gender is 1/sqrt(2) (|male> - |female>). And this board is one of very few places I could say that and be understood by anyone.

Just cause we understand you doesn't mean we aren't judging you.

[Gray Ghost]

New strip.

[galen ubal]

SPOILER:

....who the hell is that?!?

[appleciders]

Originally Posted by galen ubal

SPOILER:

....who the hell is that?!?

Uhhh...

SPOILER:

It's Tarquin. He's wearing a mask against this eventuality.

[Gyrate]

So we once again see that Roy is smarter than the average fighter, and that Tarquin is smarter than Roy. And genre-aware.

[appleciders]

Burlew's use of "genre-savvy" is still one of the more fascinating abilities in this comic. Most of all, it's wonderful in reference to Elan, since he's a bard and well-versed in the art of storytelling, but Tarquin's doing it very well too.

What class is Tarquin? Is he a fighter? Multiclassed, somehow?

[mlees]

Originally Posted by appleciders

What class is Tarquin? Is he a fighter? Multiclassed, somehow?

SPOILER:

Part Ninja, judging from the mask, and the arrow snatching.

[Lightray]

Originally Posted by appleciders

What class is Tarquin? Is he a fighter? Multiclassed, somehow?

Tarquin almost assuredly has taken some second-party Prestige Class or other, one that is on the verge of being broken. He's too savvy not to have done so.