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  #51  
Old 10-08-2009, 03:55 PM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Originally Posted by Bridget Burke View Post
Fred Phelps is a full grown adult & has a lot more protection that the average 5 year old. Especially a kid in a school/care center where said creep works.
Absolutely irrelevant to the root issue here, which DtC summarizes as:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
You do have a reason to believe that, though. He's already told you he wants to. The fact that he's said he won't act on his pathology as long as it's illegal is hardly enough of a safety net to allow him unfettered access to children.
What, are we living in Minority Report now? Sorry, but the disbelief that someone is capable of resisting their urges isn't enough to warrant 24/7 surveillance and potential removal from their workplace, IMO.

Really, what is it exactly you'd be "reporting" him for, aside from inappropriate discussion in the workplace? Or is that the angle -- get him on that, and use it as an excuse to dismiss the creepy pedophile you don't trust?
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  #52  
Old 10-08-2009, 03:57 PM
Lightnin' Lightnin' is offline
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
Yes, I would, without hesitation.
For what? What would you tell the cops when you (presumably) called 911?
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  #53  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:29 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Originally Posted by gurujulp View Post
You keep stating that he said he would like to rape children. He has said that he would like to have sex with children
There is no difference, especially when as the OP as stated, this individual wants to "have sex with" literal infants. Pleas tell me how one can have sex with a baby without raping it.
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and has stated that he would never act on it
An assurance which inspires no confidence whatsoever.,
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And I am in danger of stealing a million dollars cash if someone leaves it laying around.
Material greed and temptation to steal are not psychological disorders. Pedophilia is a sexual pathology, and pedophiles are never safe to trust around children -- especially wehn the pedophile in question has been quite brashing in stating that he doesn't feel like there's anything wrong with him or with raping toddlers.

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 10-08-2009 at 04:29 PM..
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  #54  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:34 PM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
An assurance which inspires no confidence whatsoever.,
Excellent username/post combo.
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  #55  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:35 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Originally Posted by atomicbadgerrace View Post
Absolutely irrelevant to the root issue here, which DtC summarizes as:



What, are we living in Minority Report now? Sorry, but the disbelief that someone is capable of resisting their urges isn't enough to warrant 24/7 surveillance and potential removal from their workplace, IMO.
When the "workplace" involves taking care of children, yes it damn well does.
Quote:
Really, what is it exactly you'd be "reporting" him for, aside from inappropriate discussion in the workplace? Or is that the angle -- get him on that, and use it as an excuse to dismiss the creepy pedophile you don't trust?
I'd be reporting that someone entrusted with taking care of children has said that he'd like to rape them. It's not fucking complicated, You keep the fucking perverts away from the children. Jesus, I can't believe this place sometimes.

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 10-08-2009 at 04:36 PM..
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  #56  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:39 PM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
I'd be reporting that someone entrusted with taking care of children has said that he'd like to rape them. It's not fucking complicated, You keep the fucking perverts away from the children. Jesus, I can't believe this place sometimes.
Well, I guess you mean reporting to the employer and not the police, since I don't think *wanting* to rape a child is a crime.

So that's all you'd say to the employer? Omitting the part about how he absolutely refuses to act on his desires? And then expecting all work history up to that point to be disregarded, so that the disgusting, creepy pedophile can be thrown on the street where he belongs?

Last edited by atomicbadgerrace; 10-08-2009 at 04:40 PM..
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  #57  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:40 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Originally Posted by kombatminipig View Post
Once again, it's up to whether he acts on his instincts or not. The flaming liberal in me stipulates that he has the right to his own thoughts, and he is only accountable for his actions and nothing else.

If he is working in a profession where he is in contact with children I'd advise him to find a job where he isn't tempted to commit acts that will both harm other people, but above all himself (If he's readily attracted to children, he's obviously already put aside the thought that he's doing them harm).
You'd "encourage" him to find another job, but you wouldn't bother to inform his employer that he has stated he wants to rape the childrn he's entrusted to take care of?


"Whether he acts on his instincts?" So you're willing to wait around until AFTER he's already raped a baby (a BABY) to decide wether it's dangerous to let someone who says he wants to rape babies take care of babies?

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 10-08-2009 at 04:41 PM..
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  #58  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:48 PM
DianaG DianaG is offline
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Good lord. If we're talking about a position dealing with children, then yes, you report this to the boss. Not the cops, the boss. The cops get called when someone has actually DONE something wrong. But it's pretty much a no-brainer that the person ultimately responsible for the safety of these children should be informed when an employee states that he fantasizes about sex with children.

If it's NOT a position dealing with children, then feel free to not hang out with him anymore, and then mind your business.
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  #59  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:49 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Originally Posted by atomicbadgerrace View Post
Well, I guess you mean reporting to the employer and not the police, since I don't think *wanting* to rape a child is a crime.
All I've said in the whole thread is that I would report him to his employer if he worked with children. It would be inexcusable not to.
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So that's all you'd say to the employer? Omitting the part about how he absolutely refuses to act on his desires? And then expecting all work history up to that point to be disregarded, so that the disgusting, creepy pedophile can be thrown on the street where he belongs?
Fuck his work history (and I wouldn't buy his "refusal to act" line for a second...neither would any employer...nor should they). He's not safe to trust around children. The end.

Are pedophiles NOT disgusting and creepy in your mind? I think just getting the animal fired would be an example of me showing my utmost restraint and kindness.

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 10-08-2009 at 04:49 PM..
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  #60  
Old 10-08-2009, 05:04 PM
LurkMeister LurkMeister is offline
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I read through the OP several times, and nowhere in it does it state that the workplace involves contact with children.

If we're going to discuss hypotheticals, then my question to Diogenes the Cynic is this: if you did not work in a place that involves contact with children, what would you do if a co-worker informed you that he was a pedophile?
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  #61  
Old 10-08-2009, 05:06 PM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
So you're willing to wait around until AFTER he's already raped a baby (a BABY) to decide wether it's dangerous to let someone who says he wants to rape babies take care of babies?
That's how the legal system works. Or should we open up a precrime department and fix the world your way?

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Fuck his work history (and I wouldn't buy his "refusal to act" line for a second...neither would any employer...nor should they). He's not safe to trust around children. The end.
I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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Are pedophiles NOT disgusting and creepy in your mind? I think just getting the animal fired would be an example of me showing my utmost restraint and kindness.
No. Their desire to maintain intimate relationships with children -- yes, that's disgusting and creepy to me. But no, I don't classify all pedophiles as disgusting and creepy. Nor would I want anyone to unfairly judge me as a person on just one aspect of my psyche. I don't automatically classify pedophiles as "animals"; I classify them as human beings who have desires that I simply can't agree with and find repugnant, but otherwise are no different from anyone else. Some are intelligent, some are not. Some can be excellent businessmen; others should stick to janitorial work.

So if you're asking if "pedophile" automatically triggers a "kick this guy's ass because he's completely incapable of contributing anything positive to society and should be wiped off the face of the earth" bell in my head; no, it doesn't.
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  #62  
Old 10-08-2009, 05:08 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Originally Posted by LurkMeister View Post
I read through the OP several times, and nowhere in it does it state that the workplace involves contact with children.

If we're going to discuss hypotheticals, then my question to Diogenes the Cynic is this: if you did not work in a place that involves contact with children, what would you do if a co-worker informed you that he was a pedophile?
Well the OP stated it as "your" workplace. I have a job which involves contact with special needs children, so I would have to report it.

I then posed the hypothetical about if the workplace was a daycare to see if it changed anyone's responses.

My answer to your own question is that I would still report it to management or HR because it is a grotesque instance of sexual harrassment.

Once again, that would also be an example of me showing restraint.
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  #63  
Old 10-08-2009, 05:12 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Originally Posted by atomicbadgerrace View Post
That's how the legal system works. Or should we open up a precrime department and fix the world your way?
We're not talking about the legal system, we're talking about a workplace. Specifically, we're talking about whether a business which is entrusted with the care of children should be informed if one of their employees has expressed a desire to rape them.
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  #64  
Old 10-08-2009, 05:28 PM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Entirely irrelevant, but I was abstracting on the john, and it occurs to me that this kind of workplace interaction wouldn't happen to begin with if the pedophile in question didn't think you'd believe him when he said he refused to act on his desires.

Kind of like if your best friend told you in confidence, "man, your girlfriend is so, so sexy. If you weren't dating her, I'd hit it so hard. Oh god, I'd love to be with her, but while you're dating her, I wouldn't do anything." Do you still trust them to hang out alone?

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand.

Last edited by atomicbadgerrace; 10-08-2009 at 05:28 PM..
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  #65  
Old 10-08-2009, 06:18 PM
Dallas Jones Dallas Jones is offline
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Originally Posted by The Flying Dutchman View Post
There is a raging thread going on in the pit.

This comment ensued


Say you have a co-worker who proudly spills out his inclination to have sex with babies but won't because its illegal.

How do you respond ?

I would report him and do everything I can to ensure he no longer works with me.
Report him to both Human Resources at your company, and to the FBI. Since this is IMHO, I believe that the current stance of the SDMB staff on this issue is very wrong.
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  #66  
Old 10-08-2009, 06:36 PM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Originally Posted by ghardester View Post
Report him to both Human Resources at your company, and to the FBI.
Again, report him to the FBI for what, exactly? Do you envision the conversation between you and the FBI going any different than as described in the OP?
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  #67  
Old 10-08-2009, 09:18 PM
The Flying Dutchman The Flying Dutchman is offline
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There seems to be a general consensus that you only call police to report a crime.

Is a loud verbal domestic dispute a crime? Where there is smoke there may be fire, right ? That certainly gets reported with numerous police responses.

Any pedophile represents a danger to the weakest most vulnerable members of our society. Even if he declares to remain abstinent in light of the law. We know how successful abstinence programs work.

Perhaps calling the police would be futile. Perhaps better would be calling the child care authorities who deal with single mothers who might be targeted by this guy.

I don't know, but I believe people should be warned.
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  #68  
Old 10-08-2009, 09:37 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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Let's see.

Person A says that there's nothing immoral about stealing from big companies and he sure could use the cash, but won't steal since it's illegal.

Giving this person a job involving handling large sums of money would be goddamned stupid. After the fact, the most clueless people in the universe (other than the ones who gave him the job) would be asking "Just what were you thinking?"


Person B openly admits to wanting to have rape babies for the purposes of sexual gratification, but says he won't because it's illegal.

How clueless do you need to be to trust this person around children?

Doesn't really matter that you can't prove that he HAS done it.
He admits the desire and interest.

So while he cannot be locked up, he should certainly be prevented from being in a position where it may be possible for him to fulfill his desires.

As for his Employers, this person has, by dint of openly stating this preference, made himself a liability to the company. Both for the purposes of employee morale and company reputation. God forbid they have a "Bring your child to work Day" or company picnic, because his fellow employees are likely to have severe, and completely justified, reservations about his presence. Just as the company would have justifiable concerns about their liability in those situations.
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  #69  
Old 10-08-2009, 10:00 PM
DianaG DianaG is offline
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Originally Posted by The Flying Dutchman View Post
There seems to be a general consensus that you only call police to report a crime.

Is a loud verbal domestic dispute a crime? Where there is smoke there may be fire, right ? That certainly gets reported with numerous police responses.
It's disturbing the peace, which can actually be a misdemeanor, depending on where you live. Now, calling the cops because you overheard the husband say "You know, sometimes I could just kill that woman", well, that would be silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Flying Dutchman
Any pedophile represents a danger to the weakest most vulnerable members of our society. Even if he declares to remain abstinent in light of the law. We know how successful abstinence programs work.

Perhaps calling the police would be futile. Perhaps better would be calling the child care authorities who deal with single mothers who might be targeted by this guy.

I don't know, but I believe people should be warned.
Warned that there are pedophiles in the world? We know. Like I said, if the person works with children, then their employers should absolutely be alerted. But do you propose we start locking people up or targeting them for harassment based on stuff they might do someday?

Last edited by DianaG; 10-08-2009 at 10:02 PM..
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  #70  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:07 AM
Kozmik Kozmik is offline
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Originally Posted by atomicbadgerrace View Post
Kind of like if your best friend told you in confidence, "man, your girlfriend is so, so sexy. If you weren't dating her, I'd hit it so hard. Oh god, I'd love to be with her, but while you're dating her, I wouldn't do anything." Do you still trust them to hang out alone?
"Dude, your girlfriend was like so hot. I totally wanted to do her. Too bad she married that Richard guy. Ha ha, yeah, you know that won't last. Hey -- chick or no chick, we'll always be bros, right?" Were you right in trusting them to hang out alone? Should you trust him in the future?
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  #71  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:25 AM
boytyperanma boytyperanma is offline
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In a regular work environment I'd probably report it to HR as a sexual harassment issue. Someone deciding to tell me intimate sexual details about themselves that I'm uncomfortable with gets them reported. I'm pretty comfortable with people talking about their sex lives with me so I'd probably come off as a total douche to said pedophile as I wouldn't report most other subjects as sexual harassment. I'd likely report anyone telling me they would like to rape someone as well. When I'm at a job I'm there to work not listen to some perverts fantasies.

My current job I'd fire them as a business percussion. I work in peoples homes. I have access to hundreds of customers houses. My customers trust me to be honest and safe to have in their homes and sometimes around their children. Reputation is important. If someone is willing to tell me about their sexual fantasies of children its possible they may tell someone besides myself. All my business is from existing customers or new customers through word of mouth. Last thing I'd want is a reputation as that guy who brings pedophiles into peoples homes. That guy who fires pedophiles unfairly is a much better reputation to have.

When I was working for Home Depot we had an employee accused of molesting a young girl. It was brought to our(managements) attention in the form of an article in the local paper provided be another employee. We let him go that day. He was brought into an office with the store manager and told his employment was terminated. I do not believe any cause was stated. It simply did not matter whether he did or didn't do what he was accused of. I have no idea if he was ever found guilty or innocent.
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  #72  
Old 10-09-2009, 01:22 AM
BigT BigT is offline
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Way too many of you guys have bought the propaganda of pedophiles that pedophilia is just another sexual orientation: it's not. It's a maladaptation. It's either desires you don't want to have, or someone who finds absolutely nothing wrong with it.

The fact that this person feels they need to tell someone is enough of an indicator that the person's pedoerotic desires are quite high. The fact that they had to stipulate that they wouldn't act on them sounds a lot more like denial to me. I don't need any other data to assume they might act on their desires. And if they are working with kids, the only way I might not report is if I thought they were getting psychiatric help--I'd let the therapist assume that role, as they know risky behavior better than I.

One of the first things they teach a pedophile is that they don't really like children, they like the feelings they get being around them. A psychologist usually stipulates that the person not work with kids until it is taken care of (if that is at all possible.)

Now, mind, there is a difference between admitting wanting to having sex with a kid and finding them attractive. One can find something attractive without wanting to have sex with it. This does happen with plain old "sexual orientation"; heck, I've seen hetero posters on here talk about same sexed individuals they find somewhat attractive, as well as the opposite.

Also, I almost left out the OCD problem: being scared that you might have sex with children, even though you find the idea appalling. For someone with that disorder, you have to realize that, if you are scared that you might do something, that's proof that you would do everything in your power not to.

But if someone flat out tells me you want to have sex with children? And you're working with kids? You'd better bet I'll tell. Not working with kids: well, I'd probably give a psychologist ultimatum first, as there's less immediate danger. If I can get them to a psychologist by not telling, that would technically be better.

Note: The problem with extracting this to what the SDMB staff should do is that everyone who needs to know around here already knows. Calling the police won't help, as they can't do anything until a crime is committed. The best course of action, then, is to try and get the offender to admit to a crime (as has happened in other cases), rather than try to get the offender banned. Even if you succeeded, would anyone be any safer?
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  #73  
Old 10-09-2009, 02:37 AM
kombatminipig kombatminipig is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
You'd "encourage" him to find another job, but you wouldn't bother to inform his employer that he has stated he wants to rape the childrn he's entrusted to take care of?
Yes, for his own sake. He should question why he is in that line of work, and where it's going to lead him. But I can't force him to make the choice. Again, flaming liberal speaking. The oldskool kind of liberal.

Personally I'd have little moral problems with beating the living crap out of the individuals who have raped friends of mine, but would that make me unqualified to work in an environment where I come into contact with convicted rapists? I can control my instincts, why shouldn't he be able to? Slight hyperbole, but merely stating an example.


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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
"Whether he acts on his instincts?" So you're willing to wait around until AFTER he's already raped a baby (a BABY) to decide wether it's dangerous to let someone who says he wants to rape babies take care of babies?
I'm not saying I like the idea, but once again...you're promoting the punishment of an individual due to what's inside his head. Lets wander that path a bit further, shall we? Would you like to have him locked up? Forbidden to use the internet? What about castrated? Why don't we wire him up, so that every time he thinks a sexual thought he gets a nice jolt of electricity. And we kill his cat.
What punishment to fit what crime? He has done nothing, so what should his punishment be?

(For argument's sake, let's ignore that he discussed his sexual preferences in the parking lot, which is another cause for censure in itself. Presume that the knowledge of his pedophilia came out indirectly.)
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  #74  
Old 10-09-2009, 09:23 AM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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I'm not promoting "punishment," I'm promoting telling his employer if he works around children. That would be a huge liability for them, especially when he offends (and he WILL offend).
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  #75  
Old 10-09-2009, 11:39 AM
Muffin Muffin is offline
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Originally Posted by Lightnin' View Post
For what? What would you tell the cops when you (presumably) called 911?
I would tell the police what he had told me.

Pedophiles are taken very seriously by police where I live.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...&postcount=566

I know of that I speak.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...&postcount=428

Last edited by Muffin; 10-09-2009 at 11:40 AM..
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  #76  
Old 10-09-2009, 04:21 PM
YogSosoth YogSosoth is offline
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I wouldn't report because I'd think of it as a sick joke first. Who goes around telling other people that? Its much more likely he's an idiot rather than a pedo.

Now if I was convinced he was serious, then it be equally likely that I'd be convinced he was serious about not touching any kids, so either way I'm fine with just ignoring him.
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  #77  
Old 10-09-2009, 04:25 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Glad to know the kiddies can rely on you.
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  #78  
Old 10-09-2009, 05:32 PM
gurujulp gurujulp is offline
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Originally Posted by LurkMeister View Post
I read through the OP several times, and nowhere in it does it state that the workplace involves contact with children.

If we're going to discuss hypotheticals, then my question to Diogenes the Cynic is this: if you did not work in a place that involves contact with children, what would you do if a co-worker informed you that he was a pedophile?
Yes, Dio, what if your job did NOT involve children.

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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
There is no difference, especially when as the OP as stated, this individual wants to "have sex with" literal infants. Pleas tell me how one can have sex with a baby without raping it.

An assurance which inspires no confidence whatsoever.,

Material greed and temptation to steal are not psychological disorders. Pedophilia is a sexual pathology, and pedophiles are never safe to trust around children -- especially wehn the pedophile in question has been quite brashing in stating that he doesn't feel like there's anything wrong with him or with raping toddlers.
You are absolutely correct about there being no 'consensual' way to have sex with an infant.

I see temptation as being temptation. I can only compare types of temptation I have felt.

I personally never developed a moral opposition to theft until I forced myself to do so- I think using what others here refer to as CBT, but I am not positive. It just never took before that. As a child, the rewards were worth the risks to me.

Over time, I realized that the rewards were not worth the gains consistent with my changed goals and viewpoints, so now I think differently.

Now I honor integrity over all else, sometimes to a fault, although I try to temper with kindness, and I think that in the type of world I would now espouse, I should never have been allowed to live.

I have no idea if the same sort of change would be possible in someone with the paedo issues, and I don't really care. But I wouldn't go farther than reporting them to my boss as a sexual harasser, even if hypocritically compared to other shit I would put up with, as was mentioned by another poster.

Oh, and I do agree with the death penalty for child molestation. One year for appeal, just in case there was error, then death. Same for rape.

Last edited by gurujulp; 10-09-2009 at 05:34 PM.. Reason: death penalty
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  #79  
Old 10-09-2009, 06:31 PM
LurkMeister LurkMeister is offline
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Originally Posted by LurkMeister View Post
I read through the OP several times, and nowhere in it does it state that the workplace involves contact with children.

If we're going to discuss hypotheticals, then my question to Diogenes the Cynic is this: if you did not work in a place that involves contact with children, what would you do if a co-worker informed you that he was a pedophile?
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Originally Posted by gurujulp View Post
Yes, Dio, what if your job did NOT involve children.
He did answer my question (post #62):
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
Well the OP stated it as "your" workplace. I have a job which involves contact with special needs children, so I would have to report it.

I then posed the hypothetical about if the workplace was a daycare to see if it changed anyone's responses.

My answer to your own question is that I would still report it to management or HR because it is a grotesque instance of sexual harrassment.

Once again, that would also be an example of me showing restraint.
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  #80  
Old 10-09-2009, 06:58 PM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
Once again, that would also be an example of me showing restraint.
Why's that, because you'd want to kick his ass? Why wouldn't you -- because you know you'd get in trouble for it?

Well, what reason do we have to believe that you wouldn't actually do it, besides your word, which doesn't sound all that convincing?

Guess we should report you to the police for the precrime of assault, eh?
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  #81  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:09 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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You have no assurance that I wouldn't kick his ass, and I never said anything about reporting the pedo to the police, so that's a strawman. What you shouldn't do is leave me alone with the pervert for too long.
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  #82  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:19 PM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
You have no assurance that I wouldn't kick his ass, and I never said anything about reporting the pedo to the police, so that's a strawman. What you shouldn't do is leave me alone with the pervert for too long.
Sorry; I suppose that was more aimed at those crying for the FBI to get involved.

Replace it "report you to the boss as a potentially dangerous employee who has shown a desire to assault, but claims he wouldn't do it."
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  #83  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:22 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Yep. I'd report his ass. Assurances that he wouldn't really do it are meaningless.
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  #84  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:37 PM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is offline
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You should distinguish between desired outcome in the "One and Only One" hypothetical case and the "General Situational" hypothetical case.

Would you report the one and only possible conceivable pedophile coworker who would ever exist and make such a statement? Oh, perhaps you would? Perhaps you'd even just go ahead and shoot the dude & figure you're saving the world from this creep?

Yeah but.

Would you report A hypothetical pedophile coworker, in other words creating a work environment in which anyone making such a statement would be subject to ramifications and consequences for doing so? Seems to me all you'd succeed in doing is making the conversaton topic verboten. Wouldn't get pedophiles in general fired. Would not make your workplace pedophile-free. WOULD make life at your workplace one footstep closer to a witch-hunt, more or less, depending on how specific such a statement had to be before triggering such a reaction. Quite possibly it would become a workplace where no one is quite comfortable saying they "really like kids". Could even become an environment in which no one but female parents are safe acknowledging the existence of children.

C'mon. Rethink this in terms of what the fuck you expect to accomplish.

Me, I favor free speech. I have far more fears of evil things growing in the dark than I do of evil things being seen in the bright light.
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  #85  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:45 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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It's got nothing to do with fucking free speech. Free speech is about what the government can do. You have no right to free speech in a fucking workplace.
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  #86  
Old 10-09-2009, 09:58 PM
Qin Shi Huangdi Qin Shi Huangdi is online now
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I would agree, I would seek to ostracize him as best as I can if possible have him resign or fired.
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  #87  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:21 PM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Originally Posted by Curtis LeMay View Post
I would agree, I would seek to ostracize him as best as I can if possible have him resign or fired.
It always amazes me when people feel that the best way to deal with someone with a psychiatric disorder is to ostracize them.
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  #88  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:52 PM
LurkMeister LurkMeister is offline
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Originally Posted by atomicbadgerrace View Post
It always amazes me when people feel that the best way to deal with someone with a psychiatric disorder is to ostracize them.
Well, of course we should ostracize them. After all, why should decent, normal people be forced to associate with them?
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  #89  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:58 PM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Well, of course we should ostracize them. After all, why should decent, normal people be forced to associate with them?
Words fail me. I've nothing more to say in this forum except that I'm very sorry you feel that way.
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  #90  
Old 10-09-2009, 11:13 PM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
It's got nothing to do with fucking free speech. Free speech is about what the government can do. You have no right to free speech in a fucking workplace.
Nonfucking free speech, actually. And while I may not have the guarantee of any right to free speech in the workplace, I really ought to be free to opine, self-describe, or pontificate, at least up until the point I am tolk to STFU about it, whatever it may be. Somehow I don't get the sense that STFU is your intended outcome in "reporting" your hypothetical pedophile coworker (or do I misconstrue?) ...and I am saying that law or no law, it is not a good thing for anyone when any workplace becomes a place where you get fired for something you say offhand.
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  #91  
Old 10-09-2009, 11:33 PM
LurkMeister LurkMeister is offline
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Words fail me. I've nothing more to say in this forum except that I'm very sorry you feel that way.
Perhaps the wasn't sufficient indication that I was being sarcastic.
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  #92  
Old 10-10-2009, 12:25 AM
atomicbadgerrace atomicbadgerrace is offline
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Perhaps the wasn't sufficient indication that I was being sarcastic.
I thought it may have been, so I held my tongue... in this thread, one can't be too certain, I suppose. I apologize.
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  #93  
Old 10-10-2009, 01:03 AM
LurkMeister LurkMeister is offline
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No problem...although it's probably just as well that I didn't go on to suggest that the next step would be ostracizing people that are overweight, unattractive, or dress funny. Particularly since I fit into at least one of those categories myself.
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  #94  
Old 10-10-2009, 01:14 AM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
Nonfucking free speech, actually. And while I may not have the guarantee of any right to free speech in the workplace, I really ought to be free to opine, self-describe, or pontificate, at least up until the point I am tolk to STFU about it, whatever it may be. Somehow I don't get the sense that STFU is your intended outcome in "reporting" your hypothetical pedophile coworker (or do I misconstrue?) ...and I am saying that law or no law, it is not a good thing for anyone when any workplace becomes a place where you get fired for something you say offhand.
Someone saying they want to rape the babies they are entrusted to take care of is not "saying something offhand." Sexual harrassment is not saying something offhand. These are cases where a person is presenting either a danger to the public being served, or creating a toxic, hostile atmosphere to work in or both.

Jesus fucking Christ, I can't even believe that someone at a daycare saying they want to rape the babies would not be a cause of concern for you people. What the fuck is the matter with you?

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 10-10-2009 at 01:17 AM..
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  #95  
Old 10-10-2009, 10:54 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
Nonfucking free speech, actually. And while I may not have the guarantee of any right to free speech in the workplace, I really ought to be free to opine, self-describe, or pontificate, at least up until the point I am tolk to STFU about it, whatever it may be. Somehow I don't get the sense that STFU is your intended outcome in "reporting" your hypothetical pedophile coworker (or do I misconstrue?) ...and I am saying that law or no law, it is not a good thing for anyone when any workplace becomes a place where you get fired for something you say offhand.

Bullshit. Depends on what you say. If I had an employee who said they liked to have sex with children, I'd probably pull him/her into the office, and speak to him/her about it -- at the very LEAST, you don't say this kind of thing at work. (Hello, hostile work environment?) Ever hear of sexual harassment? I don't have the right to make others feel uncomfortable at work. I don't have the right to treat my fellow workers to racial slurs, sexual remarks, details of my own sex life, etc. And depending on WHERE you work, it could get you into more trouble. (Like say, if you work with customers, and you said this within ear shot?)

I believe Diogenes has stated he works with disabled children, so he would be required to report the guy. And as far as being "free to opine" or whatever, well, that's only so far as whether your opinions interfer with your work place. If I were your boss, and you were talking about how you (generic you) liked to fuck kids, I'd be pretty damned disturbed, to say the least.

Last edited by Guinastasia; 10-10-2009 at 10:59 PM..
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  #96  
Old 10-11-2009, 10:32 AM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is online now
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Look, "someone with a disorder" who is at the same time seeking help, getting therapy, trying to avoid situations that make matters worse, etc., does not deserve organized ostracism, BUT that sort of person -- the one that knows he has a problem and seeks help and tries to do the right thing -- will probably have enough sense to NOT call attention upon himself unnecessarily, and in the case of the pedophile example to avoid child-involving workplaces. ( It's kind of sad that we haven't as a society been able to create some sort of scenario wherein the pedophile-who-wants-to-get-help can be told "right, the first step in dealing with the problem is recognizing you have a problem; let's see how we can deal with this" as do people with other maladjustments, without some wag coming out and saying "and the way to deal with it is to kill yourself before I kill you, you nonhuman". )


OTOH the example of someone who shares unsolicited TMI in the (non-child-involving) workplace, including the implication that he sees nothing wrong with this and the only thing holding him back is fear of punishment, that's where Guinastasia's latest post applies: he's putting the company at risk for sexual harassment liability. At minimum on first offense the boss must tell him in no uncertain terms to STFU while on the clock or in circumstances he may be identified with the company, get help, and certainly not to show up on "take your kids to work" day.

Now -- do his squicked coworkers have a right to expect to have him summarily fired and publicly pilloried just for an "offhand comment", one strike and you're out, you worst thing in the universe? No. But neither is he immune or protected from that happenning. If the expressions persist beyond an "offhand comment", so that it's clear it's not a misunderstanding or a backfired joke, he's then certainly stepping into "hostile work environment" territory; if it's an "employment at will" job, if the boss herself is badly squicked enough she may just go ahead and terminate without any explanation, but unless he's entirely disconnected from reality he would have had to expect something like that to happen.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 10-11-2009 at 10:37 AM..
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  #97  
Old 10-11-2009, 11:14 AM
YogSosoth YogSosoth is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
Glad to know the kiddies can rely on you.
Well I like to live dangerously

I eat rare meat, I go outside without a sweater, and play video games or read while driving the car.

What real assurance do I have that its just an offhand comment and not a serious declaration of intent? None. Assuming I believe him, why think he'll break the law if I thought he was serious about being a pedophile? Take the emotion out of the argument, and you'd have just a co-worker who has an odd taste in jokes.

Logically speaking, it doesn't matter whether he works with kids or the elderly, because the above statement works either way. So I don't think its the right thing to report him at all because you'd either be sure he's joking, or be sure he won't break the law. Only someone steeped in bias would callously twist his words into the no-win scenario you've driven him in to. By your actions, why shouldn't he go and rape the next baby he sees? Either way, he'll get the cops on him, probably lose his job, and be ostracized. Might as well indulge, right?

And before you ask, yes, I would totally leave him alone with any kid, even mine. It would be hypocritical for me to display distrust after defending him, and I'd be pretty sure of correctness to the point where I don't think he's a threat. Sometimes you just gotta take chances Dio
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  #98  
Old 10-11-2009, 11:25 AM
Martin Hyde Martin Hyde is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
All pedophiles are in danger of acting on their urges.
Indeed. What is also important to remember is any one who would (as is the scenario in the OP) openly admit their desires to someone they know in the real world, someone they work with, is extremely unstable to begin with. It is one thing to make admissions on a message board where you are extremely protected by your anonymity, but if someone made the admission to a coworker that's already showed enough poor judgment and lack of internal controls that I wouldn't put much stock in their claims that they "would never violate the law."
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  #99  
Old 10-11-2009, 11:30 AM
Martin Hyde Martin Hyde is offline
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I'll say this thread is a good example of how extreme and non-mainstream the SDMB is. I can tell you guys with absolute certainty I could poll 100 people in the city I work in (Richmond, Virginia) from all districts, all races, all occupations and I'd be shocked to my core if less than 90 responded that they would report a pedophile they worked with. In fact I doubt any of them would say they wouldn't, even if they actually wouldn't, simply because decent people would never cop to allowing a pedophile free reign to work with children.
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  #100  
Old 10-11-2009, 11:31 AM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Originally Posted by YogSosoth View Post
Well I like to live dangerously

I eat rare meat, I go outside without a sweater, and play video games or read while driving the car.

What real assurance do I have that its just an offhand comment and not a serious declaration of intent? None. Assuming I believe him, why think he'll break the law if I thought he was serious about being a pedophile? Take the emotion out of the argument, and you'd have just a co-worker who has an odd taste in jokes.

Logically speaking, it doesn't matter whether he works with kids or the elderly, because the above statement works either way. So I don't think its the right thing to report him at all because you'd either be sure he's joking, or be sure he won't break the law. Only someone steeped in bias would callously twist his words into the no-win scenario you've driven him in to. By your actions, why shouldn't he go and rape the next baby he sees? Either way, he'll get the cops on him, probably lose his job, and be ostracized. Might as well indulge, right?

And before you ask, yes, I would totally leave him alone with any kid, even mine. It would be hypocritical for me to display distrust after defending him, and I'd be pretty sure of correctness to the point where I don't think he's a threat. Sometimes you just gotta take chances Dio
Along those lines, you should always take somebody's word for it if they tell you a gun isn't loaded, becuase, what the hell, people never lie.
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