The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > General Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:24 PM
ShibbOleth ShibbOleth is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
How much effort to remove a rapist's testicles?

Last night at Stammtisch, we somehow got into a discussion that one of the members had seen an "expert" on Oprah talking about how to prevent rape. If I'm quoting correctly (and this is third hand now) he said if you grab a perv by the balls, pull down and twist, "it only takes 8 lbs of pressure" to pull the boys off. There was also discussion on whether it was even easier to remove an ear (6 lbs).

1) Is this even vaguely correct?
2) How would you test something like this on, say, Mythbusters? Cadavers?
3) If this is correct, then what's the relation to other more mundane tasks, such as removing a lid from a pickle jar?
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:28 PM
Snite Snite is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
2) If you want live test subjects you could get those Hindu dudes who castrate themselves in devotion to... Shiva(?) before they actually go through with it. Of course, you'd have to be a sadist.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:34 PM
Mangetout Mangetout is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: England (where it rains)
Posts: 51,054
Maybe the twisting makes a difference, I don't know. I'm pretty sure there are accounts of people lifting weights considerably heavier than 8 pounds attached to their scrotum.

However, I imagine that applying 8 pounds of twisty pull on a rapist's balls might at least spoil his mood.

Last edited by Mangetout; 11-24-2009 at 07:35 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-24-2009, 08:01 PM
toodlepip toodlepip is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
I've never tried to rip human skin, and my castration experience is limited to animals, but the women in these two cases didn't seem to have too much trouble.

Surgical castration techniques vary depending on species, age/maturity etc, but it doesn't involve pulling off the scrotum itself. I have no idea how much force would be required for that, or whether twisting would help tear the skin. If the blood vessels aren't ligated, pulling the testicles till the vessels stretch and eventually break will limit bleeding.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-24-2009, 08:57 PM
SeaDragonTattoo SeaDragonTattoo is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago, Far Northsider
Posts: 5,546
I'm sure the actual advise was in regards to incapacitating a man, not actually pulling the testicles off - crazy dudes have pulled cars with their junk, I don't think any woman's going to just twist them off!

Here's the technique.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-24-2009, 09:26 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 54,076
While you're at it, try to poke his eyes out at the same time, with your other hand. Men will instinctively attempt to protect their testicles at all costs, which means that an attack to the testicles will likely be foiled... But which also means that he'll be distracted against other attacks, which will therefore be more likely to succeed.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-24-2009, 09:34 PM
KneadToKnow KneadToKnow is offline
Voodoo Adult (Slight Return)
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posts: 23,881
I'm just glad this wasn't a "need answer fast!" thread.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-24-2009, 09:35 PM
Ludovic Ludovic is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: America's Wing
Posts: 23,258
I can tell you it's not true for the ear. I've been pulling and twisting on my own ear for a couple minutes now, gradually increasing until I was giving it my entire non-forced effort. It isn't even starting to hurt, and if it wasn't six pounds I must be a really weak man to not be able to pull six pounds without straining. *

* Don't try this at home.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-24-2009, 09:38 PM
thirdname thirdname is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
If a woman rips off a man's testicles, isn't he likely to kill her if she doesn't get away quickly? It seems risky to me.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:19 PM
Magiver Magiver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdname View Post
If a woman rips off a man's testicles, isn't he likely to kill her if she doesn't get away quickly? It seems risky to me.
If it were possible he would be in so much pain as to not even be aware she is standing next to him.

I would advise kicking or punching the general area rather than trying to grab anything. This is to increase the likelyhood of success. Once you've tagged him in the nuts you have a better chance of repeating the process.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-25-2009, 07:59 AM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Falls Church, Va.
Posts: 9,756
When chimpanzees attack, they always go for the genitals, but they're stronger than humans.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-25-2009, 08:27 AM
shijinn shijinn is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
i believe that is the ancient martial arts move - panzee plucks peaches, a good counter to the coloured wolf double clawed frontal attack.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-25-2009, 08:50 AM
HeyHomie HeyHomie is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 8,238
FWIW, when Mammahomie was about 16 GrandmaHomie sent her to a women's self-defense class. She was taught (among other things) to puke on her assailant. To this day Mammahomie can puke on cue.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-25-2009, 09:27 AM
ShibbOleth ShibbOleth is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Tildrum View Post
When chimpanzees attack, they always go for the genitals, but they're stronger than humans.
The chimps or the genitals?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-25-2009, 10:22 AM
butler1850 butler1850 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdname View Post
If a woman rips off a man's testicles, isn't he likely to kill her if she doesn't get away quickly? It seems risky to me.
I have no intention of getting into a situation where a woman is pulling my testicles off, but if, on the odd chance that it ever happened...

It would become my life's work to find, and kill, such a person. I have no balls at that point, so it's not like I have anything else pressing to do. Or, having no balls, I'd just procrastinate about it....

As to the OP, I doubt 8# of force will remove them, but it would certainly do a number for his ability to press an attack for a significant portion of time.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-25-2009, 10:36 AM
Irishman Irishman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
I've heard several of these "so and so lbs of pressure" claims in a martial arts setting. I find them questionable.

The first thing that jumps out is the units. Pounds is a force unit, pressure is measured in pounds per square inch (for example), i.e. psi. Pressure is a distributed load, force is a total load.

So when they say 8 lbs of pressure, do they mean 8 lbs, or 8 psi? What force load is required to get 8 psi in the tissue around the testicles?

Another factor is the difference between a slow pull and a quick yank. A quick yank will impart a larger impulse load than a slow pull with the same force, which translates into more damage.

I'm fairly certain you can yank an ear off, though I have not tried it. I am less certain you can actually remove the nutsack, but you can certainly make the guy feel like you did so. (Just checked toodlepip's links, so it is apparently possible.)

thirdname
Quote:
If a woman rips off a man's testicles, isn't he likely to kill her if she doesn't get away quickly? It seems risky to me.
That kind of pain is incapacitating. He won't be able to do much more than clutch his crotch, maybe limp away. Get out of range, he can't chase you well.

Magiver said:
Quote:
I would advise kicking or punching the general area rather than trying to grab anything. This is to increase the likelyhood of success. Once you've tagged him in the nuts you have a better chance of repeating the process.
Striking can be just as effective and easier. Trying to grasp through jeans might be a challenge, for instance. But Chronos is right, men will instinctively protect their crotch if they sense you going for it. A simultaneous or followup to the eyes and/or throat is a good combo.

Just for grins (experimentation), I tried grabbing myself through my jeans. I can't actually get ahold of anything solid, the jeans are too resistive. However, in the process, I can tweak my nuts enough to hurt. Not incapacitating pain, but enough to flinch. A flinch is a window of distraction. They focus on their nuts, hit them in the eyes. They block their face, knee the groin. They're blocking both of those, kick them in the knee. Then get away.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-25-2009, 11:01 AM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
Just for grins (experimentation), I tried grabbing myself through my jeans. I can't actually get ahold of anything solid, the jeans are too resistive. However, in the process, I can tweak my nuts enough to hurt. Not incapacitating pain, but enough to flinch. A flinch is a window of distraction. They focus on their nuts, hit them in the eyes. They block their face, knee the groin. They're blocking both of those, kick them in the knee. Then get away.
Nuts are a small target, really. Throwing random, panicked kicks or knees at a guy's groin will more than likely hit the inner thigh or pelvis rather than the jewels themselves. Besides, it's quite easy to block the only angle that works on them (i.e. vertical upwards), you only have to close your legs. And guys do that quite, quite instinctively

Your last suggestion is the one I'd go for, were I trying to defend myself for realz. It's an easy, incapacitating target, and one that's hard to protect. Go for the knee. A good, solid kick to the side of the knee hurts like a motherfuck and might just break or twist the joint. Even if it doesn't, the guy's going to limp for a good long while. Kicking upwards just under the floating bone (patella ?) from the front works too.

Last edited by Kobal2; 11-25-2009 at 11:02 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-25-2009, 11:56 AM
PoorYorick PoorYorick is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by toodlepip View Post
I've never tried to rip human skin, and my castration experience is limited to animals, but the women in these two cases didn't seem to have too much trouble.
From the first of the articles cited above was a phrase you don't hear too often: "Mr Hutchinson's testicle was later found by police under a picture frame."

Man, this thread is going to have me walking bow-legged the rest of the day.

Last edited by PoorYorick; 11-25-2009 at 11:57 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-25-2009, 01:41 PM
SCSimmons SCSimmons is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShibbOleth View Post
2) How would you test something like this on, say, Mythbusters?
I don't know what Adam and Jamie would come up with for this, but I can guarantee they'd get their best ... ratings ... EVER!
__________________
-Christian
"You won't like me when I'm angry. Because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources." -- The Credible Hulk
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-25-2009, 02:15 PM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Quote:
2) How would you test something like this on, say, Mythbusters? Cadavers?

1.) Another use for slaughtered pigs!

2.) "Buster" the Test Dummy gets a new Body Part! Engineered by Adam!

3.) Or they can have a competition -- Can Adam or Jamie build the more lifelike scrotum?

4.) Or, better still, Keri!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-25-2009, 02:26 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 54,076
If Keri has a scrotum, I'd rather not know.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-25-2009, 02:58 PM
KneadToKnow KneadToKnow is offline
Voodoo Adult (Slight Return)
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posts: 23,881
Forgive me if this has been asked, but ... is there a significant difference between the amount of effort it would take to remove a rapist's testicles and the amount it would take to remove just any guy's testicles?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-25-2009, 04:15 PM
Irishman Irishman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
If the rapist has removed his trousers, that would improve access, and thus make it easier. But there's nothing about being a rapist that makes your scrotum more or less detachable.

I assume you're picking on the thread title. I think the rationale was that the situation was more justifiable as a defense for rape rather than just a random interaction with a stranger. "Hi," *yank*". YMMV.

Kobal2 said:
Quote:
Nuts are a small target, really. Throwing random, panicked kicks or knees at a guy's groin will more than likely hit the inner thigh or pelvis rather than the jewels themselves. Besides, it's quite easy to block the only angle that works on them (i.e. vertical upwards), you only have to close your legs. And guys do that quite, quite instinctively
While men do quickly react to block the nuts, I'm sure a review of the literature (i.e. America's Funniest Home Videos) will demonstrate that the nuts are a vulnerable target and men aren't always good at blocking. However, if they block the first one, you're not likely to get a second or third strike to succeed.

Quote:
Your last suggestion is the one I'd go for, were I trying to defend myself for realz. It's an easy, incapacitating target, and one that's hard to protect.
I'm not going to limit myself to one target. Yeah, the knee is a great target and can be an incapacitating shot, but if they have their knee bent into the kick or leg not braced, it can be ineffective. I'm going for a series of strikes to multiple targets on the theory that they can't block everything at once and they can't anticipate every move, so eventually something will get through. And I'm going to follow the first successful strike with 3 or 4 more to ensure the attacker has been properly persuaded/incapacitated to allow me to withdraw. Eyes, throat, groin, knee - and not necessarily in that order.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-25-2009, 05:19 PM
ShibbOleth ShibbOleth is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
I've heard several of these "so and so lbs of pressure" claims in a martial arts setting. I find them questionable.

The first thing that jumps out is the units. Pounds is a force unit, pressure is measured in pounds per square inch (for example), i.e. psi. Pressure is a distributed load, force is a total load.

So when they say 8 lbs of pressure, do they mean 8 lbs, or 8 psi? What force load is required to get 8 psi in the tissue around the testicles?
This was something I struggled with when writing the OP. What IS the correct unit of measure for the force needed to rend away someone's ballsack or ear?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-27-2009, 04:20 PM
Irishman Irishman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
One can talk about tensile strength of components, and the appropriate units are pressure units (actually, stress units, but they are the same).

One can also talk about average loads to accomplish the task on most humans, and talk about force units.

Either can be an acceptable way to quantify the information, but one needs to be clear which set of units one is discussing and why.

From the values I have heard, I doubt their veracity and wonder how they were measured.

7 to 9 lbs of pressure to break a rib, 9 to 12 lbs to break a knee, etc. I have had children sit on my chest weighing more than 10 lbs, so static loading to 10 lbs of force didn't break my ribs, but how does that translate to what they think they are communicating?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-27-2009, 06:10 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 54,076
Well, that is distributed over multiple ribs, where presumably the figures you're referring to are assuming the force is applied entirely to a single rib. Still, it seems like a 150-pound person's weight would be distributed over less than 15 ribs, and that doesn't break them, either.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-27-2009, 06:40 PM
Add99 Add99 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
I never pursued martial arts very far, but I like the style of this move:

A descending three punch move, bending the knees as you go down.
A punch to the face.
A punch to the gut.
A punch to the nads.
Now your opponent is bent forwards. Grab the back of his head with both hands and repeatedly knee him in the face until he falls over.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.