Jurassic Park question

[Nobody]

OK, about a week ago I saw Jurassic Park for the first time. At first I thought that despite hearing that it used CGI and animatronics I thought they were using stop motion because of how jerky some of the dinosaur was, but looking it up, sure enough, just CGI and animatronics.

But there's one scene that I'm curious about, when Dr. Grant, Tim, and Lex (the kids) were crawling in the ducts to get away from the raptors, and Lex almost falls out, and the others are trying to pull her out, when she's dangling, it has a stop motion, or strobe light effect in the room below, and on her as well.

Does anybody have any idea how they did that scene? Thanks.

[Red Barchetta]

Don't know if it helps at all (prolly not), but that was actually a stunt double who fell through the grate. They then digitally pasted the actual actress's face over the stunt-double's.

I actually just re-watched Jurassic Park a few weeks ago and I don't recall any "jerkiness"--in fact, I still think the movie has some of the implementation of CG in an action film. That aside, the film was originally going to use stop-motion technology; there's an interesting feature on the DVD that actually shows some test footage involving the kitchen raptor scene.

[Nobody]

Originally Posted by Red Barchetta

Don't know if it helps at all (prolly not), but that was actually a stunt double who fell through the grate. They then digitally pasted the actual actress's face over the stunt-double's.

That is interesting, but I'm still curious as to why it looked like she was struggling in a strobe-light room.

I actually just re-watched Jurassic Park a few weeks ago and I don't recall any "jerkiness"--in fact, I still think the movie has some of the implementation of CG in an action film. That aside, the film was originally going to use stop-motion technology; there's an interesting feature on the DVD that actually shows some test footage involving the kitchen raptor scene.

Yeah, I read where he was going to go with stop-motion, but then CGI provided movement more realistic than stop-motion could have provided so he went with that instead.

[Justin_Bailey]

Originally Posted by Nobody

But there's one scene that I'm curious about, when Dr. Grant, Tim, and Lex (the kids) were crawling in the ducts to get away from the raptors, and Lex almost falls out, and the others are trying to pull her out, when she's dangling, it has a stop motion, or strobe light effect in the room below, and on her as well.

I haven't seen it in a while, but doesn't Lex knock a light out of the ceiling when she falls through the grate? That would account for the strobe light effect.

[Nobody]

Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey

I haven't seen it in a while, but doesn't Lex knock a light out of the ceiling when she falls through the grate? That would account for the strobe light effect.

Maybe...I don't have the movie and I can't find that part on YouTube or Google Video to watch it again more closely.

[Shawn1767]

From what I remember, they are climbing through the ceiling, she kicks a florescent light down and it's hanging by a cord and spinning as she's jumping up to the ceiling. I think that accounts for the lighting effect.

[Nobody]

Two votes for a dangling light, I guess that's it. Thanks.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

It's funny you bring this up, I just re-watched "Jurassic Park" again last weekend and was amazed at how well the effects have held up, in fact I think they're even more realistic than most movies released today. It's hard to believe that movie is 16 years old.

[Red Barchetta]

Originally Posted by Eyebrows 0f Doom

It's funny you bring this up, I just re-watched "Jurassic Park" again last weekend and was amazed at how well the effects have held up, in fact I think they're even more realistic than most movies released today. It's hard to believe that movie is 16 years old.

Are you me?

But yeah, it's weird, isn't it how a lot of modern CG stands out now much more so than in Jurassic Park. I think part of it is they knew CG's limitations back then, whereas now it's treated as if it doesn't have any, which is hardly the case.

[Tanbarkie]

This thread just got me to rewatch that first scene with the brachiosaurus again for the first time in years. It's one of my favorite movie scenes of all time, just a spectacular blend of acting, special effects, and one of the best main themes ever written. As someone who was inspired as a teenager to go into science by movies like "Jurassic Park," it now holds some extra resonance as well - the wonder that Grant and Sattler display upon seeing their life's work literally come to life in front of them is something with which I can very much empathize.

The rest of the movie has its ups and downs, quality-wise, but that first reveal of the dinosaurs is one of the great moments in cinema, as far as I'm concerned. And the visual effects still look incredible.

[GuanoLad]

Originally Posted by Red Barchetta

I think part of it is they knew CG's limitations back then, whereas now it's treated as if it doesn't have any, which is hardly the case.

But they didn't know its limitations. They were pushing so many boundaries they were in danger of overextending themselves, which is the standard operating practice for ILM. What they did do, which is now considered a cheat, is kept a lot of it set at night and in the rain to help hide some of the rough spots.

[Red Barchetta]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

But they didn't know its limitations. They were pushing so many boundaries they were in danger of overextending themselves, which is the standard operating practice for ILM. What they did do, which is now considered a cheat, is kept a lot of it set at night and in the rain to help hide some of the rough spots.

Hence knowing its limitations...

[Tanbarkie]

Originally Posted by Red Barchetta

Hence knowing its limitations...

Not to mention very effectively creating an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty.

If that's "cheating," I'd still take it over "we need to put this scene in broad daylight to show off our KICKASS RENDERING ENGINE" anyday.

[garygnu]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

...What they did do, which is now considered a cheat, is kept a lot of it set at night and in the rain to help hide some of the rough spots.

There're two idioms that come to mind that I learned in college:
If you can't make it good, make it shiny.
If all else fails, have it be at night.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Tanbarkie

Not to mention very effectively creating an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty.

I just wish CSI hadn't reasoned the same way. You've got bodies on autopsy tables in the morgue being examined by flashlight, ferchrissake.

[detop]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

But they didn't know its limitations. They were pushing so many boundaries they were in danger of overextending themselves, which is the standard operating practice for ILM. What they did do, which is now considered a cheat, is kept a lot of it set at night and in the rain to help hide some of the rough spots.

Re : the rain. Wasn't the set in Hawaii hit by a major hurricane while filming ? I think that might have something to do with it.

[GuanoLad]

Originally Posted by detop

Re : the rain. Wasn't the set in Hawaii hit by a major hurricane while filming ? I think that might have something to do with it.

No, the rain was deliberate. The sequence with the T Rex vs Car was filmed on an indoor set.

[GuanoLad]

Originally Posted by Red Barchetta

Hence knowing its limitations...

I see it more as hedging their bets. But perhaps you're right.

[Justin_Bailey]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

What they did do, which is now considered a cheat, is kept a lot of it set at night and in the rain to help hide some of the rough spots.

Why is it considered a cheat? That's how it went down in the book. I think...

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey

Why is it considered a cheat? That's how it went down in the book. I think...

I think when he says "now" considered a cheat, he means that it's now considered a cheat to set a scene in the dark or rain to avoid problems with CG. Not that, in hindsight, we now consider it a cheat in Jurassic Park.

[CalMeacham]

The rest of the movie has its ups and downs, quality-wise, but that first reveal of the dinosaurs is one of the great moments in cinema, as far as I'm concerned. And the visual effects still look incredible.

As a longtime movie fan, I'll agree with this. That first view of the brachiosaurus wsas meant not only to wow the audience, I'm convinced it was meant to wow fans of special effects.

In all the teasers at the time, they'd show only the tail. They wanted it to be seen for the first time in the theaters, I'm certain.

i grew up on the effects of Willis O'Brien, Ray Harryhausen, Jim Danforth, David Allen, and others. Heck, I'd animated my own dinosaurs. I knew the tricks they used to convey a sense of reality -- highly detailed skin textures, anointed with special liquids to bring it out for the camera; using bladders inside the figure to give a subtle illusion of breathing. Making "muscles" under the skin so that the skin would move like that of a real creature, not a stuffed toy.

The brachiosaur blew all that away in a single shot. Its skin not only moved as if it had muscles -- it was wrinkled and baggy like an elephant's hide, and all those wrinkles stretched and jostled like a relatively rigid animation model never could. The mottled skin coloring was far more detailed than the finest air-brushed model, and it moved in so many parts in so many different directions at different speeds that it would have driven an animator insane to keep track of it all. It was so far beyond previous methods that it was awesome. Quantum Leaps light years in size, to mix physics metaphors.



I didn't see any "jerkiness". In fact, this is one area where the CGI is notably superior to traditional animation -- you can move and blur things so that the "strobing" one often sees with rapid movement in traditional animation isn't there (George Lucas had used computer programs to provide such blurring, in fact, on the ttraditionally-animated effects in The Empire Strikes Back, and i believe they were used in Dragonslayer, too. In addition, the sometoime clumsy matte lines and edges on bluescreen-type effects could be done much more cleanly with digital composition.

the main defect I did see was a failure to correctly match lighting direction and light levels -- sometimes the dinosaurs seemed to "glow" a bit, as with the velociraptors in the kitchen sequence. But that's peretty minor. I didn't notice it at the time -- I think I'm jaded now by overexposure.

[GuanoLad]

Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey

Why is it considered a cheat? That's how it went down in the book. I think...

It wasn't a cheat at the time, it was just a lucky convenience. But then, after that, a lot of movies used that kind of setting to hide the dodgy effects work.

[Max Torque]

I think one of the reasons it holds up so well is that they did mix the CGI with animatronics, even in the same shot. My favorite example is just after the T-rex escapes its paddock and is scoping out the two vehicles, when the kids find a flashlight, which attracts the T-rex.

The particular shot I like is done from the perspective of Grant and Malcolm's car: first, the camera looks through the clear roof, where you can see the T-rex's head (animatronic). Then, the camera pans down to look through the windshield, and you see the T-rex walk toward the car with the flashlight (CGI). I found it clever that they just used a pan of the camera to hide the giant animatronic head, and somehow, having seen the actual, solid presence of the T-rex, your mind sort of adds solidity to the CGI Rex stalking off. It's a great trick.

If you noticed "jerkiness" during those T-rex scenes, the rain is to blame; I saw a documentary somewhere (maybe on the DVD itself) that showed how problematic that whole shoot was. Large animatronics like that require huge motors to operate due to their weight, and they have to be calibrated pretty carefully to move smoothly. When the rain got turned on and the head got wet, it got heavy, and after only a few minutes of shooting the movements would get jerky as the motors struggled with the extra weight. They had to shut everything down, dry it off with blowers, and start up again to get another few minutes. Sounded like a real chore.

[garygnu]

Nowadays they could solve that problem by adding in digital rain.

[Tanbarkie]

Originally Posted by garygnu

Nowadays they could solve that problem by adding in digital rain.

Digital rain never looks quite as... mucky as the real thing.

[Enderw24]

Originally Posted by Nobody

Does anybody have any idea how they did that scene? Thanks.

They used clever girls.

[garygnu]

Originally Posted by Tanbarkie

Digital rain never looks quite as... mucky as the real thing.

OK, but the sheer volume of water need originally could be reduced to only the amount needed to make it look mucky, then add more in post.

[Nobody]

Originally Posted by Enderw24

They used clever girls.

I'm guessing this is a joke....but I don't get it.

[garygnu]

Originally Posted by Nobody

I'm guessing this is a joke....but I don't get it.

It's a rather memorable line in the movie.

[Red Barchetta]

Originally Posted by Nobody

I'm guessing this is a joke....but I don't get it.

"Clever girl" is a bit of an internet meme--it's a quote from Jurassic Park from the hunter dude in response to the Raptor moving around in an intelligent manner. "Clever girl."

[Nobody]

Oh right...OK. I remember now. It just threw me being used out of context.

[a35362]

"Miss Nickleby, please!"

RIP Bob Peck.

[Nobody]

Here's something interesting...I read about these, but it's interesting seeing them:

Jurassic Park Movie Mistakes - Part 1


Jurassic Park Movie Mistakes - Part 2

[Johnny L.A.]

They should do a remake with giant pigs.

[Nobody]

I actually watched the movie using Rifftrax and Weird Al was a guest commentator (actually, it was just Mike and Al) and he says that Jurassic Park isn't that scary in daylight .

[Yllaria]

Is there any chance of it being shown in theaters again? The big theater sound added a lot to the experience. I swear, during the scene where the coffee in the cup was vibrating because of the thump of the T-rex walking nearby - - my drink cup was doing the same thing. And so was my diaphragm.

I would pay to see it in the theater again.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Nobody

Here's something interesting...I read about these, but it's interesting seeing them:

Jurassic Park Movie Mistakes - Part 1


Jurassic Park Movie Mistakes - Part 2

A lot of these are just simple continuity errors which can happen in any movie. Among the few specific to the effects in JP, I guess my favourite is someone's hand balancing the raptor as it looks into the kitchen, late in the second video.

[Nobody]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

A lot of these are just simple continuity errors which can happen in any movie. Among the few specific to the effects in JP, I guess my favourite is someone's hand balancing the raptor as it looks into the kitchen, late in the second video.

Yeah, I didn't see that one, or a lot of them originally. It took slowing down, and circles being drawn to draw my attention to it.

[Shawn1767]

I checked out those errors and they addressed what I always felt was the worst, the one where the T-Rex pen turns into a cliff.. Phew...

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by Enderw24

They used clever girls.

Heh. I love this line--my brother and I quote SO much JP, and for some reason, this post just made me giggle.

[rocking chair]

Originally Posted by detop

Re : the rain. Wasn't the set in Hawaii hit by a major hurricane while filming ? I think that might have something to do with it.

yes, there was a hurricane in hawaii at the time, also in the book (and movie) a hurricane was heading for the jurassic park island, a goodly portion of the park crew was heading off the island for that reason; including newman.

they did not have to use fake rain. from an interview with the crew speilberg is a good person to have in your hurricane bunker.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

Originally Posted by Shawn1767

I checked out those errors and they addressed what I always felt was the worst, the one where the T-Rex pen turns into a cliff.. Phew...

Yeah I've never understood the physical properties of that pen. The first time I saw it I was confused why what was ground suddenly turned into a huge cliff! It seems like such a big change to be just an error...

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by Eyebrows 0f Doom

Yeah I've never understood the physical properties of that pen. The first time I saw it I was confused why what was ground suddenly turned into a huge cliff! It seems like such a big change to be just an error...

Yeah. I know people have debated it ad nauseam and come up with theories explaining it but it still makes no sense to me.

But the thing I HATE the most is why when Lex was geeking out on the computer, and Alan and Ellie are trying to close the door and reach the gun to shoot the raptor why the fuck Tim, who's doing nothing but cheering on Lex, can't go hand them the gun!

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by Shawn1767

I checked out those errors and they addressed what I always felt was the worst, the one where the T-Rex pen turns into a cliff.. Phew...

It's a long time since I've seen the movie, but couldn't the cliff have been on the other side of the road from the T-Rex pen?

Originally Posted by Freudian Slit

But the thing I HATE the most is why when Lex was geeking out on the computer, and Alan and Ellie are trying to close the door and reach the gun to shoot the raptor why the fuck Tim, who's doing nothing but cheering on Lex, can't go hand them the gun!

Isn't being useless the default state for annoying little kids?

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by Grumman

It's a long time since I've seen the movie, but couldn't the cliff have been on the other side of the road from the T-Rex pen?


Isn't being useless the default state for annoying little kids?

You'd think one of the grown ups could be all, "Tim, hand us the FECKING GUN!"

[t-bonham@scc.net]

Originally Posted by detop

Re : the rain. Wasn't the set in Hawaii hit by a major hurricane while filming ? I think that might have something to do with it.

Yes, the filming was all done but for a single day's worth left when the hurricane hit. It destroyed all the sets, and the cast & crew was isolated there for a few days.

The last bit of filming was done later (and elsewhere, I think). That is the scene with them running across the field with the velicioraptors (sp?) chasing after them.

[GuanoLad]

Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net

That is the scene with them running across the field with the velicioraptors (sp?) chasing after them.

That's in JP2.

[Darth Sensitive]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

That's in JP2.

Probably done later than principal shooting for the original then.

[t-bonham@scc.net]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

That's in JP2.

Right. It was actually the scent where the flock of Gallimimus is fleeing across the field from the T. Rex.

[Short_Guy]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

A lot of these are just simple continuity errors which can happen in any movie. Among the few specific to the effects in JP, I guess my favourite is someone's hand balancing the raptor as it looks into the kitchen, late in the second video.

Here's the thing: I understand 'simple continuity errors' in terms of "Hey, he had two fingers extended in the long shot and three in the medium!", but in video 1, things like the towel? Who misses a towel changing colour completely, even if it is a pick-up shot many weeks later? Wouldn't the prints have been developed by then, and wouldn't someone have gone back and checked these things?