Lies told by prominant democrats

[boytyperanma]

As many on the right contend that the Democrats are every bit as bad as the Republicans when it comes to lying. This is something I just include in the long line of Republican supported lies but in an effort to be objective I'd like to make a list examining what truth there is to Democrats lying

I'm looking for quotes from prominent Democrats that are lies about their Republican opponents. Prominent being party leaders congressmen senators presidential candidates etc.

I could have put this in general questions but some quotes are already the subject of debate. I'm not looking to have a debate on each statement however. merely come up with a list

In order to qualify as a lie for the purposes of this thread it needs only to be shown to be contrary to the truth you need not whether they intended to lie or not.

I'll start with:

During the debates before the election Barack Obama told John McCain 100% of his campaign ads had been negative. On analysis of all of McCain's ads this was shown to be a lie he had campaign ads that were not negative.

[Oakminster]

I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.--Bill Clinton

[emmaliminal]

Originally Posted by Oakminster

I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.--Bill Clinton

Originally Posted by boytyperanma

I'm looking for quotes from prominent Democrats that are lies about their Republican opponents.

Got anything on-topic, Oakminster?

[Airman Doors, USAF]

How current?

Originally Posted by Ted Kennedy

Robert Bork's America is a land in which women would be forced into back-alley abortions, blacks would sit at segregated lunch counters, rogue police could break down citizens' doors in midnight raids, schoolchildren could not be taught about evolution, writers and artists could be censored at the whim of the Government, and the doors of the Federal courts would be shut on the fingers of millions of citizens for whom the judiciary is—and is often the only—protector of the individual rights that are the heart of our democracy... President Reagan is still our president. But he should not be able to reach out from the muck of Irangate, reach into the muck of Watergate and impose his reactionary vision of the Constitution on the Supreme Court and the next generation of Americans. No justice would be better than this injustice.

Given that Ted Kennedy just died and Robert Bork would still be on the Court had his nomination been successful, I'd say it's still relevant.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

How current?



Given that Ted Kennedy just died and Robert Bork would still be on the Court had his nomination been successful, I'd say it's still relevant.

Do you deny that making abortion illegal in the US would give us back alley abortions once again? Do you deny that they existed?

From here.

Over the years, Bork criticized many Supreme Court decisions. In a 1963 article in The New Republic, Bork attacked the proposed Public Accommodations Act—which became title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (78 Stat. 2441, 42 U.S.C.A. §2000a)—as an infringement of the right of free association.

I think that covers the lunch counter claim quite nicely. I didn't find any quotes directly about the separation of church and state, but I think an originalist Republican might well support the teaching of creationism.
Kennedy was not saying that America would immediately have these things happen if Bork were confirmed, but he was saying that this is the kind of America Bork supported.

[boytyperanma]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

How current?



Given that Ted Kennedy just died and Robert Bork would still be on the Court had his nomination been successful, I'd say it's still relevant.

I like more recent quotes better but any will do.

Personally I loved reading about that 'Borking' It certainly qualifies as one of the most influential lies of our time

[ElvisL1ves]

What part was the lie?

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

What part was the lie?

That one justice, one single, solitary associate Supreme Court Justice, would overturn Roe, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, specifically rule that Creationism could be taught in schools, and that writers and artists would be censored.

In other words, all of it.

[L. G. Butts, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

What part was the lie?

Maybe not a lie so much as hyperbole. It's like all the right wing individuals claiming that President Obama is going to institute socialism with his health care plan or kowtow to terrorists or the UN with his foreign policy. Obvious, intentional exaggeration.

[whorfin]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

That one justice, one single, solitary associate Supreme Court Justice

Without getting into how Senator Kennedy characterized the results of Bork's positions on constitutional law the fact that he's just one justice doesn't stop him from guiding the court's major decisions.

Look, for example, at Anthony Kennedy--who, because of how the rest of the court usually votes on certain disputed issues (Stevens/Ginsburg/Breyer/ (presumably) Sotomayor vs. Roberts/Thomas/Scalia/Alito), often gets, in practice, to decide how cases come out.

In practical terms, the winner of (for example) a contentious abortion case is the side that gets Kennedy. So in many cases, the swing justice can in fact determine how constitutional law comes out.

As a historical note, Justice Kennedy wasn't Regan's first choice for the vacancy. He tried to nominate Douglas Ginsburg, who was rejected because he admitted to smoking pot. Ginsburg, of course, was a replacement for none other than Bob Bork.

So you're just plain wrong to say Bork is irrelvant because he's just one justice. All I need to do to rebut that is to look at the current court. Roberts-Scalia-Alito-Thomas-Bork is a lot different to Roberts-Scalia-Alito-Thomas-Kennedy.

[Squink]

Harry Reid, December, 2007:

SEN. HARRY REID: First of all, Joe Lieberman, Joe Lieberman is my friend, and he is a good Democrat, votes with us on everything, except the war.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

That one justice, one single, solitary associate Supreme Court Justice, would overturn Roe, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, specifically rule that Creationism could be taught in schools, and that writers and artists would be censored.

In other words, all of it.

That's not what he said. He was talking about Bork's ideology ("Robert Bork's America"), not his practical ability make it a 100% reality, and it's not a "lie" to say that a Supreme Court Justice can impose a lot of influence, even if they can't get every single thing they want.

No lie here. You'll have to try something else.

[ElvisL1ves]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

That one justice,...would

Etc.

Come on now. Where did Kennedy say that? He said what the effects would be of Bork wanted to do, not what he would do or even that he wanted those effects.

In other words, all of it.

In honest words, none of it.

Squink has a fine example.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

That's not what he said. He was talking about Bork's ideology ("Robert Bork's America"), not his practical ability make it a 100% reality, and it's not a "lie" to say that a Supreme Court Justice can impose a lot of influence, even if they can't get every single thing they want.

No lie here. You'll have to try something else.

If he has no practical ability to make it happen, it's irrelevant scaremongering. It is not any different in substance from Rush Limbaugh bloviating on the radio about things that cannot and will not happen, and you have no reservations about calling him a liar.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

There was no claim that he had the ability to make it all happen, only that it would be highly inappropriate to give such a person the amount of influence he would be able to exert as a Supreme Court Justice. You don't have a lie here. Give it up. I'm sure there are tons of other more legitimate examples.

[jtgain]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

That one justice, one single, solitary associate Supreme Court Justice, would overturn Roe, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, specifically rule that Creationism could be taught in schools, and that writers and artists would be censored.

In other words, all of it.

With Bork (instead of Kennedy) on the Court, Planned Parenthood v. Casey turns out to be a 5-4 decision that overturns Roe.

Rehnquist, Scalia, Thomas, White, Bork - voting to overturn Roe.
Souter, O'Connor, Stevens, Blackmun - voting to retain Roe.

[ElvisL1ves]

It is not any different in substance from Rush Limbaugh bloviating on the radio about things that cannot and will not happen, and you have no reservations about calling him a liar.

He says a lot more than that, including asserting things to be factual that he knows are not. Examples need not be reiterated here yet again except perhaps to the particularly obtuse. No one should have compunctions about calling him a liar.

Now, back to your Ted Kennedy quote, now that you've had some time to consider it more carefully, are you ready to explain what the lie is?

[boytyperanma]

Can we please move on from the Kennedy quote. I understand it is a debatable quote. I'm willing to accept it anyhow for this list. Hell at the rate this list is filling out I'll drop my standards pretty low just so I can have something to work with.

[elucidator]

You could go with lies told about prominent Democrats. How big is your hard drive?

[gonzomax]

Originally Posted by Oakminster

I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.--Bill Clinton

Depends how you define it. there is a good argument against it. Foreplay is not sex. sex is what makes people.

[John Mace]

"The Republican health care plan is this: 'Don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly.'"

Alan Grayson on Health Care.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by gonzomax

Depends how you define it. there is a good argument against it. Foreplay is not sex. sex is what makes people.

It was a blow job. A blow job is oral sex.

[gonzomax]

Oral sex is just a term. If the requirement is to make babies, then oral sex is foreplay. Butt sex is foreplay. 69 is foreplay because sex is how you make babies.

[Frostillicus]

Originally Posted by John Mace

"The Republican health care plan is this: 'Don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly.'"

Alan Grayson on Health Care.

Again, I am having trouble spotting the lie here.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by gonzomax

Oral sex is just a term. If the requirement is to make babies, then oral sex is foreplay. Butt sex is foreplay. 69 is foreplay because sex is how you make babies.

By that logic, gays can never have sex.

How about the LBJ admin and all their lies concerning Vietnam? Especially McNamara? I believe he told some real whoppers.

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by Frostillicus

Again, I am having trouble spotting the lie here.

Well, technically no republican plan that we are aware of uses that exact language, therefore, it's a lie.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by John Mace

"The Republican health care plan is this: 'Don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly.'"

Alan Grayson on Health Care.

What's not true about this?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

Well, technically no republican plan that we are aware of uses that exact language, therefore, it's a lie.

Grayson was obviously being facetious in characterizing it as a "plan," but his point was that the Republicans had no alternative plan at all except to turn a callous deaf ear to the suffering for their own pecuniary self-interest.

[boytyperanma]

In order to qualify as a lie for the purposes of this thread it needs only to be shown to be contrary to the truth you need not whether they intended to lie or not.

"The Republican health care plan is this: 'Don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly.'"

Well, technically no republican plan that we are aware of uses that exact language, therefore, it's a lie.

Sounds like enough to qualify as untrue to me.

[boytyperanma]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

How about the LBJ admin and all their lies concerning Vietnam? Especially McNamara? I believe he told some real whoppers.

Sure got any quotes for us?

[boytyperanma]

If you only come in here to try and defend Democratic quotes please move along. You are not really contributing to the thread. After we've exhausted our resources trying to find Democratic lies we can go back and laugh and argue about them. Please stop derailing the thread.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by boytyperanma

Sure got any quotes for us?

I would say the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. The Johnson administration's claims of a second attack were highly suspect. Even Johnson and McNamara seemed uncertain of an attack.

It seems it was only used as an excuse to get us into the war.

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by boytyperanma

Sure got any quotes for us?

How about the Gulf of Tonkin incident ? Now that's a WMD grade whopper.

One of the Navy pilots flying overhead that night was squadron commander James Stockdale, who gained fame later as a POW and then Ross Perot's vice presidential candidate. "I had the best seat in the house to watch that event," recalled Stockdale a few years ago, "and our destroyers were just shooting at phantom targets — there were no PT boats there.... There was nothing there but black water and American fire power."

In 1965, Lyndon Johnson commented: "For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there."

Yet he and his administration milked the incident for all its worth in order to drum up support for the war.

ETA : Damn you, Guinastasia ! Damn you all to Hell !

[kaylasdad99]

Y'know, boytyperanma, you could be here a while, waiting for enough to work with.

Here's something to help you pass the time.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by boytyperanma

Sounds like enough to qualify as untrue to me.

No, because the word "plan" was meant sarcastically, not literally. This quote does not qualify as a "lie," unless you're going to qualify every sarcastic statement as a lie.

[jshore]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

By that logic, gays can never have sex.

I certainly know women who did not include in their count of guys who they had "slept with" or "had sex with" those who they had done things short of sexual intercourse with. I am not going to defend this use of the terminology but I think one has to acknowledge the variation in how people use and interpret the terminology.

[notsoheavyd3]

Umm, that whole "Shinseki got fired for arguing over troop levels" that I heard from Kerry and Pelosi isn't actually true. (Shinseki announced his retirement almost a year before that happened.)

[boytyperanma]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

No, because the word "plan" was meant sarcastically, not literally. This quote does not qualify as a "lie," unless you're going to qualify every sarcastic statement as a lie.

Dio do you have any quotes to add or are you just coming in to derail the thread?

[FinnAgain]

Pointing out that hyperbole/mockery/sarcasm is not supposed to be interpreted literally and is not a lie if not 100% literally accurate is a point that most native speakers of English would understand without discussion. If you insist on arguing otherwise, many native English speakers will perforce disagree with you.

[Snarky_Kong]

If you wear a condom or use the pill it's not sex? Shit, still a virgin.

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

What's not true about this?

The Republican health care plan, at least the one I heard McCain talking about, was to remove the tax break that only applies to employer-provided health insurance and instead provide a tax break that applies to all health insurance. This would increase competition and provide a moderate incentive to buy health insurance.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by boytyperanma

Dio do you have any quotes to add or are you just coming in to derail the thread?

I've been trying to think of some good quotes. I'm sure they must exist. But I'm also of the opinion that obvious sarcasm should not be counted as a lie. I wouldn't count it for Republicans either.

ETA the best I''ve been able to come up with is perhaps Maxine Waters' conspiracy theory about crack cocaine being intentionally planted in black communities by Reagan. I can think of other Democratic lies (Hillary's "sniper fire," for instance)," but I'm having a hard time coming up with hardcore lies about Republicans.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

How about the Gulf of Tonkin incident ? Now that's a WMD grade whopper.

Yet he and his administration milked the incident for all its worth in order to drum up support for the war.

ETA : Damn you, Guinastasia ! Damn you all to Hell !

This is a good example of a lie, but it was not directed at Republicans - in fact Republicans were not exactly anti-war; the left wing of the Democratic party was where the opposition was.

If Al Sharpton counts as a Democrat, we could probably dig up a bunch. I'm not sure he should count as mainstream enough, though.

[boytyperanma]

Originally Posted by Voyager

If Al Sharpton counts as a Democrat, we could probably dig up a bunch. I'm not sure he should count as mainstream enough, though.

He did run as a Democratic candidate so if we have anything relating to that I'd say sure. But I would like to avoid including pundits as representatives of a party.

[Bricker]

During the 2008 election, Obama's campaign ran ads which claimed that McCain would make drastic Medicare cuts. One ad specifically claimed that the McCain plan would mean a 22 percent cut in benefits, higher premiums, higher co-pays, and more expensive prescription drugs. It cited (in a graphic footnote) an October 6th Wall Street Journal article. Then-candidiate Obama also repeated the claim at a campaign speech October 18th.

But the article said nothing like that; it only contained a statement from a McCain spokesman saying all benefits would be maintained. McCain's plan never included cutting benefits.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

I've been trying to think of some good quotes. I'm sure they must exist. But I'm also of the opinion that obvious sarcasm should not be counted as a lie. I wouldn't count it for Republicans either.

ETA the best I''ve been able to come up with is perhaps Maxine Waters' conspiracy theory about crack cocaine being intentionally planted in black communities by Reagan. I can think of other Democratic lies (Hillary's "sniper fire," for instance)," but I'm having a hard time coming up with hardcore lies about Republicans.

The CBS use of forged documents was certainly anti-Republican, since it was intended to coincide with the Democrat's "Fortunate Son" campaign.

Also accusations that Sarah Palin banned books. CNN claimed that Palin had slashed special education funding, which was also a lie. as well as the lie that she was a member of the Alaska Independence Party. (cite).

A strong majority of Obama voters believed the lie that Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house.

Many other lies, of course - that Bush knew about 9/11 in advance, etc.

Of course, no true Scotsman Democrat ever lies.

Regards,
Shodan

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by Shodan

The CBS use of forged documents was certainly anti-Republican, since it was intended to coincide with the Democrat's "Fortunate Son" campaign.

Is CBS affiliated with the Democrats now ? Which office did Dan Rather run for again ?

Also accusations that Sarah Palin banned books. CNN claimed that Palin had slashed special education funding, which was also a lie. as well as the lie that she was a member of the Alaska Independence Party. (cite).

CNN are spokesmen for the Democrats too ? The plot has officially become thick as a brick.

A strong majority of Obama voters believed the lie that Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house.

While the assertion itself is highly debatable (although it certainly might seem that way to people who wouldn't know a sense of humor if it threw custard pies at them), I still wouldn't call Tina Fey a prominent Democrat, nor a comedy routine a lie. Besides, Palin did say Russia could be seen from the Alaska coast, and did try to sell this fascinating bit of geography trivia as foreign policy experience.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

Is CBS affiliated with the Democrats now ?

In this case, essentially Yes (cite), as I mentioned.

Regards,
Shodan

[Brown Eyed Girl]

Originally Posted by Shodan

Also accusations that Sarah Palin banned books. CNN claimed that Palin had slashed special education funding, which was also a lie. as well as the lie that she was a member of the Alaska Independence Party. (cite).

It may help if you'd actually come up with a quote from these links. A cursory search doesn't result in anything in either one that has anything to do with your examples. You don't really expect other people to go mining to back up your assertions, do you?

A strong majority of Obama voters believed the lie that Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house.

Many other lies, of course - that Bush knew about 9/11 in advance, etc.

It looks like you didn't understand the task here. Let's review:

Originally Posted by boytyperanma

I'm looking for quotes from prominent Democrats that are lies about their Republican opponents. Prominent being party leaders congressmen senators presidential candidates etc.

Rabid Uncle Joe who hates Republicans with every fiber of his being doesn't count, 'kay? Nobody is arguing or cares whether Dems have as many uninformed, vitriol-spewing voters as Repubs. This isn't the thread for that.

Of course, no true Scotsman Democrat ever lies.

My sarcasm meter detects that you don't believe this. In which case, you shouldn't have any trouble coming up with a list of examples. Give it a good college try next time.

[Kobal2]

Hmm. A cite from an "unbiased media watchdog" running articles such as "Obama's comrades push socialized medicine", "The secret plan to pass a global tax" and "Obama officials, Dems support global socialism".
Yup. That's one reliable and impartial source you've got for us, there.

Especially when the article itself is full of hearsay and Glenn Beck-style "isn't it interesting that..." rumor mongering. Maybe you've been deluded into thinking this is what actual journalism sounds like.