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  #1  
Old 02-15-2010, 05:27 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Rebut the food conventional wisdom

Fresh-squeezed orange juice tastes no better than the jug of Tropicana I can get at the supermarket, dammit.

And you?
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2010, 05:50 PM
Gruntled Gruntled is offline
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Fresh-squeezed orange juice tastes no better than the jug of Tropicana I can get at the supermarket, dammit.

And you?
But it doesn't.
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  #3  
Old 02-15-2010, 06:01 PM
kathmandu kathmandu is offline
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I much prefer dried pasta to fresh.
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:04 PM
norinew norinew is offline
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Fresh produce (fruits/veggies) is a crap-shoot. IF you are in the right region, the produce is local and it's at the height of the season, you'll surely get the best peaches, melons, apples, tomatoes, corn, berries. But unless all of those factors are in play, you're much better off, money-wise and taste-wise, going with frozen.
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:22 PM
Athena Athena is online now
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Fresh-squeezed orange juice tastes no better than the jug of Tropicana I can get at the supermarket, dammit.

And you?

I'm with Gruntled.

Tropicana is heads and shoulders above juice from concentrate, but it's still a lot more acidic than fresh-squeezed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathmandu View Post
I much prefer dried pasta to fresh.
Dried and fresh pasta are two different things; one isn't meant to be "better" than another any more than chicken is "better" than fish. It's comparing apples to oranges.

Here's mine:

Garlic squooshed through a garlic press is just fine. Don't tell me a press is a tool of the devil. Unless you're a professional chef who dices vegetables many hours a day, or you need to hold the cut garlic for more than ten or 15 minutes before cooking it, a press is faster than dicing it yourself and works just fine.

And I can't tell the difference if I remove the green sprout from the garlic, either. I know it's supposed to be bitter. But it isn't.
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  #6  
Old 02-15-2010, 06:26 PM
Girl From Mars Girl From Mars is offline
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I never bother to salt my aubergine before cooking, and I don't think it makes any difference.
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  #7  
Old 02-15-2010, 09:03 PM
Smeghead Smeghead is online now
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I can believe it's not butter.
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  #8  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:19 PM
The Devil's Grandmother The Devil's Grandmother is offline
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Velveeta "cheese" has a place in the world. It's not the best, or even in the top ten list of, cheese in the world, but it has a few useful applications.
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  #9  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:29 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Moving thread from IMHO to Cafe Society.
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  #10  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:33 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Originally Posted by The Devil's Grandmother View Post
Velveeta "cheese" has a place in the world. It's not the best, or even in the top ten list of, cheese in the world, but it has a few useful applications.
Doorstop. Bookend. The other bookend. Concealed weapon. Replacement for missing fireplace brick.
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  #11  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:54 PM
Chronos Chronos is online now
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Fresh produce (fruits/veggies) is a crap-shoot. IF you are in the right region, the produce is local and it's at the height of the season, you'll surely get the best peaches, melons, apples, tomatoes, corn, berries. But unless all of those factors are in play, you're much better off, money-wise and taste-wise, going with frozen.
I'll agree on veggies, or for any fruit you're going to cook anyway (in a pie, say), but freezing fruit destroys most of the texture.

My turn: While it's possible that genuine vanilla might taste a little better than imitation, there's no way that it tastes enough better to be worth fifty times the price.
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  #12  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:57 PM
Ichini Sanshigo Ichini Sanshigo is offline
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It's perfectly okay to wash your cast iron cookware with soap and water.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:16 AM
DianaG DianaG is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
My turn: While it's possible that genuine vanilla might taste a little better than imitation, there's no way that it tastes enough better to be worth fifty times the price.
This I've gotta disagree with. It tastes enough better to be worth five hundred times the price.

Velveeta definitely has a place in the world. Sometimes nothing else will do. Just don't go confusing it with actual food, and eating it often.

I like most of my vegetables fairly crisp, but asparagus is best when you roast the hell out of it.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2010, 03:13 AM
Jeff Lichtman Jeff Lichtman is offline
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Fancy salt is nonsense. Salt is salt, especially if it's going to dissolve (e.g. will be used in a sauce). Sometimes you want coarse salt for a special application, but ordinary table salt is almost always indistinguishable from sea salt, French grey salt and other concoctions intended to separate food snobs from their money.

I agree with kathmandu that dried pasta is usually better than fresh. So do most professional cooks, who use dried pasta except in certain applications (such as ravioli).

Canned tomatoes are better for cooking than fresh except for the few months when tomatoes are in season.

Salt doesn't make beans tough. I don't know where the so-called food experts got the idea that it does.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:39 AM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is online now
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There's no need to let meat rest before you serve it; it does nothing to make it juicier (that's determined before you take it off the stove/grill -- if it's dryed out in cooking, waiting won't make it moist.)

The same for the fear of cutting into a piece of meat to check for doneness.

Related -- a meat thermometer is just a crude guide to checking if something is done. Cutting into the meat gives you a much more accurate idea.

Finally, salt doesn't "bring out the flavor" of anything -- it just makes things salty. Think about it: Pepper makes things taste like pepper. Sage makes things taste like sage. Cinnamon makes things taste like cinnamon. Salt makes things taste like ____________.

If you like the salty flavor, fine. But don't pretend you're tasting anything other than the salt.
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  #16  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:00 AM
Left Hand of Dorkness Left Hand of Dorkness is online now
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Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
Finally, salt doesn't "bring out the flavor" of anything -- it just makes things salty. Think about it: Pepper makes things taste like pepper. Sage makes things taste like sage. Cinnamon makes things taste like cinnamon. Salt makes things taste like ____________.

If you like the salty flavor, fine. But don't pretend you're tasting anything other than the salt.
Good grief, dude. First Alien and Gattaca, then Mad Men, now this? Salt blocks perception of bitter flavors, thereby bringing out the sweetness in food. It's not just a salty flavor: it actually has an effect on the other flavors in the food.

(Sorry to pick on you for other things--it just seems to me that this is part of a pattern).
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:14 AM
Snickers Snickers is offline
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Yeah, I have to disagree with the "there's no reason to let meat rest" idea too - there is a good reason, and it does let the juices redistribute, resulting in a better experience. If your meat is always dry dude, you're overcooking it. Use the meat thermometer, already.
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:18 AM
Left Hand of Dorkness Left Hand of Dorkness is online now
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Originally Posted by Snickers View Post
Yeah, I have to disagree with the "there's no reason to let meat rest" idea too - there is a good reason, and it does let the juices redistribute, resulting in a better experience. If your meat is always dry dude, you're overcooking it. Use the meat thermometer, already.
Indeed--here's a cite with the underlying chemistry.
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:27 AM
Anne Neville Anne Neville is offline
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Washing mushrooms will not make them soggy, and is a lot faster and easier than futzing around with a brush. They're mushrooms, not Instant Martians.

When making vinegared and sugared sushi rice, it works just as well to put the vinegar and sugar in the rice cooker with the rice before you start cooking it. And it's a lot easier than trying to mix vinegar and sugar into sticky cooked rice.

Searing meat does not "seal in juices". Juiciness in meat is a function of doneness. Searing meat does, however, add flavor.
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  #20  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:29 AM
Athena Athena is online now
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Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
There's no need to let meat rest before you serve it; it does nothing to make it juicier (that's determined before you take it off the stove/grill -- if it's dryed out in cooking, waiting won't make it moist.)

The same for the fear of cutting into a piece of meat to check for doneness.
I disagree. It's easy to see why you want to rest meat. Cook two steaks. Immediately after taking them off the heat, cut into one. See that big puddle of juice that leaks out of it onto the plate?

Let the second steak sit for 5 minutes, and do the same. See how there's no juice? The muscle fibers have relaxed and allow them to absorb more moisture, thus the tasty juice stays in the meat instead of pooling on the plate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
Related -- a meat thermometer is just a crude guide to checking if something is done. Cutting into the meat gives you a much more accurate idea.
Yes, cutting will show you how done the meat is. As mentioned above, it'll also allow the juices to run out of the meat. On the other hand, an insta-read thermometer is inexpensive and accurate, and can tell you the same info without having to pull the meat off the heat and cut into it. Much easier IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
Finally, salt doesn't "bring out the flavor" of anything -- it just makes things salty. Think about it: Pepper makes things taste like pepper. Sage makes things taste like sage. Cinnamon makes things taste like cinnamon. Salt makes things taste like ____________.
If you like the salty flavor, fine. But don't pretend you're tasting anything other than the salt.
Wrong again.

Unlike all the other substances you mention, salt alters food in ways other than simply adding flavor. It's a chemical, and not only enhances flavors but also can be used to preserve food.

From Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking":

Quote:
Salt is also a taste enhancer and taste modifier; it strengthens the impression of aromas that accompany it, and it suppresses the sensation of bitterness.

Thanks to its basic chemical nature, salt can alter other ingredients in useful ways. Sodium chloride dissolves in water into separate single atoms that carry electrical charge - positively charged sodium ions and negatively charged chloride ions. These atoms are smaller and more mobile than any molecule, and therefore readily penetrate our foods, where they react in useful ways iwth proteins and with plant cell walls. And because a concentrated solution of any kind draws water out of living cells by osmosis - water in the lss concentrated cell fluid moves out of the cell to relieve the imbalance - the presence of sufficient salt in a food discourages the growth of spoilage bacteria while allowing harmless flavor-producing (and salt-tolerant) bacteria to grow. It thus preserves the food and improves it at the same time.
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  #21  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:45 AM
ShibbOleth ShibbOleth is offline
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Fresh-squeezed orange juice tastes no better than the jug of Tropicana I can get at the supermarket, dammit.

And you?
Fresh squeezed orange juice does taste a lot different, and in my opinion a lot better than, Tropicana. Of course I also think that Publix store brand tastes better than Tropicana. Tropicana is mediocre orange juice. It probably helps that I live in a place where it's easy to get oranges. Once upon a time I could just go in the backyard.
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  #22  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:46 AM
Terraplane Terraplane is offline
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Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
Related -- a meat thermometer is just a crude guide to checking if something is done. Cutting into the meat gives you a much more accurate idea.
An accurate thermometer is right every single time, there's nothing crude about it. I don't even know how you'd come by this idea.
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  #23  
Old 02-16-2010, 09:00 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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Originally Posted by Anne Neville View Post
Washing mushrooms will not make them soggy, and is a lot faster and easier than futzing around with a brush. They're mushrooms, not Instant Martians.
Oh, yeah - my mom "caught" me washing mushrooms in the kitchen on day and started in about them absorbing water. "Mom - I'm putting them in SOUP! They're going to soak up a lot more water from that than from washing them!"

But yes, dirty mushrooms need to be washed. Washing them does not make them soggy.
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  #24  
Old 02-16-2010, 09:06 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Another heresy of mine: Just about any piece of steak can be improved by A-1 Sauce.
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  #25  
Old 02-16-2010, 09:12 AM
Sigmagirl Sigmagirl is offline
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Frozen peas are terrific, I always wash my mushrooms and let my meat rest before cutting it, and Velveeta makes good grilled cheese sandwiches.
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  #26  
Old 02-16-2010, 09:16 AM
HongKongFooey HongKongFooey is offline
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Originally Posted by Sigmagirl View Post
Frozen peas are terrific.
This is true. Also that you don't need to soak your beans overnight before cooking them.

The rest of this thread is pure insanity. Insanity I tells you.

:runs away trembling:
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  #27  
Old 02-16-2010, 09:20 AM
salinqmind salinqmind is offline
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Cheese bread from Wegmans, at $4.25 a loaf, is a hundred times better than any other identical looking cheese bread found at any other grocery store... Same goes for marble rye. (There is a packaged brand on the commercial bread shelf that is acceptable, if Wegmans is all out of marble rye. But avoid Price Chopper at all costs!)
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:23 AM
Shark Sandwich Shark Sandwich is offline
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Another heresy of mine: Just about any piece of steak can be improved by A-1 Sauce.
Out, foul demon! OUT!!!
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  #29  
Old 02-16-2010, 09:26 AM
Anne Neville Anne Neville is offline
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Frozen vegetables have gotten better over the last 20 years. Good quality frozen asparagus and brussels sprouts are not necessarily the horrors you may remember from your childhood, at least if they are cooked properly.

On the subject of brussels sprouts, they should not be cooked for a long time. That's how they develop that awful sulfurous taste and mushy texture. They don't have that flavor and texture, which is what most people who don't like Brussels sprouts don't like about them, if they are not overcooked.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:28 AM
BrotherCadfael BrotherCadfael is offline
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Washing mushrooms will not make them soggy, and is a lot faster and easier than futzing around with a brush. They're mushrooms, not Instant Martians.
Very impressive Loony Tunes reference!
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  #31  
Old 02-16-2010, 10:39 AM
ralph124c ralph124c is offline
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I Agree

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Originally Posted by Jeff Lichtman View Post
Fancy salt is nonsense. Salt is salt, especially if it's going to dissolve (e.g. will be used in a sauce). Sometimes you want coarse salt for a special application, but ordinary table salt is almost always indistinguishable from sea salt, French grey salt and other concoctions intended to separate food snobs from their money.

I agree with kathmandu that dried pasta is usually better than fresh. So do most professional cooks, who use dried pasta except in certain applications (such as ravioli).

Canned tomatoes are better for cooking than fresh except for the few months when tomatoes are in season.

Salt doesn't make beans tough. I don't know where the so-called food experts got the idea that it does.
Salt from a mine is the same as sea salt-only its about 200 million years older.
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  #32  
Old 02-16-2010, 11:00 AM
Saintly Loser Saintly Loser is online now
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Another heresy of mine: Just about any piece of steak can be improved by A-1 Sauce.
Peter Luger's (where they get pissed if you put their own brand of steak sauce on their steaks) has been notified. You will not be admitted.
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  #33  
Old 02-16-2010, 11:31 AM
panamajack panamajack is offline
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Originally Posted by Jeff Lichtman View Post
Fancy salt is nonsense. Salt is salt, especially if it's going to dissolve (e.g. will be used in a sauce). Sometimes you want coarse salt for a special application, but ordinary table salt is almost always indistinguishable from sea salt, French grey salt and other concoctions intended to separate food snobs from their money.
What do you think makes it gray, food coloring?

'Ordinary' table salt is refined to be very pure sodium chloride, whether it came from the sea recently or from a mine. 'Sea salt' as sold is simply unrefined, and even though it's still pretty close to pure sodium chloride, the impurities clearly affect the taste (and color). Whether the difference is worth the price is debatable, but they aren't the same thing. I'm not aware of anyone selling unrefined mined salt, though it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

What are pretty nearly the same substance are kosher salt, pickling (coarse) salt, and table salt. The only difference is table salt usually has iodine added, and even that changes the taste a tiny bit.

I didn't see it mentioned in the discussion of resting meat that it's also a good idea to flip over a large roast when letting it rest, to allow gravity to aid in redistribution.
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  #34  
Old 02-16-2010, 11:34 AM
Critical1 Critical1 is offline
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Re salt, while the taste is mostly the same minus a few trace minerals the texture differences are huge, Kosher salt is so much easier to work with than standard table salt.

Pork does not need to be cooked to hockey puck to be safe to eat, Medium Rare pork chops are heaven on earth.
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  #35  
Old 02-16-2010, 11:37 AM
Jeff Lichtman Jeff Lichtman is offline
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Originally Posted by panamajack View Post
What do you think makes it gray, food coloring?
It doesn't matter what makes it gray if you can't taste it, and blind tests show that people can't tell the difference when the salt is dissolved in food. In other words, people respond to the appearance, and possibly to the knowledge that they are eating something expensive.

Last edited by Jeff Lichtman; 02-16-2010 at 11:38 AM..
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  #36  
Old 02-16-2010, 12:32 PM
Athena Athena is online now
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Originally Posted by Jeff Lichtman View Post
It doesn't matter what makes it gray if you can't taste it, and blind tests show that people can't tell the difference when the salt is dissolved in food. In other words, people respond to the appearance, and possibly to the knowledge that they are eating something expensive.
And texture.

I agree that it's pretty hard to tell the difference in salt when it's dissolved. But a sprinkling of Fleur de Sel on top of a steak is a lovely thing - it's big and crunchy, and (until it dissolves) it's really a nice addition.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:41 PM
zeldarae zeldarae is offline
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Also that you don't need to soak your beans overnight before cooking them.
If you want them to not be chalky, you do. Or at least cover them in water, bring to a boil, and let them simmer for at least one hour before you do anything else. Even then, the texture not quite right.

Trust me on this. When I was growing up, I thought I didn't like beans. When I tried cooking them as an adult (they're really cheap), I discovered I just don't like my mother's beans. She doesn't soak them and it's like eating chalk.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:41 PM
woodstockbirdybird woodstockbirdybird is offline
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Peter Luger's (where they get pissed if you put their own brand of steak sauce on their steaks) has been notified. You will not be admitted.
Then why do they offer steak sauce? That's just dickish.
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  #39  
Old 02-16-2010, 12:45 PM
Athena Athena is online now
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Originally Posted by zeldarae View Post
If you want them to not be chalky, you do. Or at least cover them in water, bring to a boil, and let them simmer for at least one hour before you do anything else. Even then, the texture not quite right.

Trust me on this. When I was growing up, I thought I didn't like beans. When I tried cooking them as an adult (they're really cheap), I discovered I just don't like my mother's beans. She doesn't soak them and it's like eating chalk.
I've never noticed a chalky taste in unsoaked beans.

I used to be a soaker until I read it was unnecessary. I quit doing it after I tried not soaking - they're completely the same as soaked beans from what I can tell.
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  #40  
Old 02-16-2010, 01:44 PM
MitzeKatze MitzeKatze is offline
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Originally Posted by Jeff Lichtman View Post
It doesn't matter what makes it gray if you can't taste it, and blind tests show that people can't tell the difference when the salt is dissolved in food. In other words, people respond to the appearance, and possibly to the knowledge that they are eating something expensive.
You are right about dissolved salt...in sauces and cooking table salt is just fine. But as a finishing salt or sprinkled on anything, the different salts can make a huge difference. I prefer coarse ground sea salt on most everything (not dissolved) because it tastes "cleaner" and really does perk up a lot of foods (and is not that much more expensive than finely ground table salt). The other "flavors" of salt are each good in their own right and some have very different flavors than plain salt. If you aren't dissolving it, you should do your own experiments to see just how much a difference it can make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena View Post
I've never noticed a chalky taste in unsoaked beans.

I used to be a soaker until I read it was unnecessary. I quit doing it after I tried not soaking - they're completely the same as soaked beans from what I can tell.
I quit soaking beans years ago, and have also never noticed them being chalky at all. Beans can also be put in a pressure cooker to similar results (well-cooked, not chalky) and be ready to eat in an hour or two instead of all day simmering that they usually take (when I make them anyway).
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  #41  
Old 02-16-2010, 02:00 PM
Chronos Chronos is online now
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I've never noticed a difference in flavor from soaking beans, but soaked beans do seem to be less flautogenic. You don't need to soak them overnight, though: A half-hour will work nearly as well.
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  #42  
Old 02-16-2010, 02:07 PM
CircleofWillis CircleofWillis is offline
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Cheese bread from Wegmans, at $4.25 a loaf, is a hundred times better than any other identical looking cheese bread found at any other grocery store... Same goes for marble rye. (There is a packaged brand on the commercial bread shelf that is acceptable, if Wegmans is all out of marble rye. But avoid Price Chopper at all costs!)
Dear sweet lord this.. Except for Columbus Bakery for bread and Harrison Bakery for pastries.. Wegman's is the place to go.
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  #43  
Old 02-16-2010, 03:07 PM
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You don't need oil in the water for your pasta. It just sits on top, not doing much of anything. If you have a problem with the water boiling over, you need a bigger pot and more water. Sure, the oil might solve the symptom of the water boiling over, but it doesn't address the root problem of not enough water making the starch that leaked out of the pasta group together to make foam. This will also affect the end flavor and texture of the pasta, so just use a bigger pot already!
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  #44  
Old 02-16-2010, 03:18 PM
MadTheSwine MadTheSwine is online now
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Instant mashed potatos taste as good(or better) than home-made,and so much easier to make.

What the hell are you putting on that sweet potato?? Marshmallows and some sorta syrup? Eat them plain for crissakes! They are delicious without all that crap on them.
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  #45  
Old 02-16-2010, 03:41 PM
MitzeKatze MitzeKatze is offline
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What the hell are you putting on that sweet potato?? Marshmallows and some sorta syrup? Eat them plain for crissakes! They are delicious without all that crap on them.
Heh...growing up I always thought I hated sweet potatoes. I couldn't stand the gross little things. Until I had a baked sweet potato with just butter on it. The difference was like night and day. I had always thought the marshmallow and goo was how they were done (and the only way to prepare them). Now I eat them baked, as sweet potato chips, as french fries, etc. Yummy!

So my own against conventional wisdom food...In many recipes there is not any discernible difference between bread flour and all purpose and for some breads all-purpose flour is better.

Last edited by MitzeKatze; 02-16-2010 at 03:42 PM..
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  #46  
Old 02-16-2010, 03:49 PM
Maiira Maiira is offline
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Eggs do not all come with salmonella in them. You will not keel over and die from eating raw cookie dough.

Lutefisk is not a specialty, gourmet food. It is merely an alternative to starving.
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  #47  
Old 02-16-2010, 03:52 PM
Maiira Maiira is offline
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Originally Posted by MitzeKatze View Post
Heh...growing up I always thought I hated sweet potatoes. I couldn't stand the gross little things. Until I had a baked sweet potato with just butter on it. The difference was like night and day. I had always thought the marshmallow and goo was how they were done (and the only way to prepare them). Now I eat them baked, as sweet potato chips, as french fries, etc. Yummy!
My very favorite sweet potato recipe involves cinnamon, sugar, nutmeg, and apples. Still a sweet dish, but nary a marshmallow in sight.
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  #48  
Old 02-16-2010, 04:46 PM
fluiddruid fluiddruid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne Neville View Post
On the subject of brussels sprouts, they should not be cooked for a long time. That's how they develop that awful sulfurous taste and mushy texture. They don't have that flavor and texture, which is what most people who don't like Brussels sprouts don't like about them, if they are not overcooked.
I like frozen and vaguely mushy brussels sprouts OK, but they hold no candle to fresh sprouts cooked properly. I riffed slightly from Alton Brown and made a whole bunch just last week by just cutting them in half and stir-frying them. The flat sides got all nicely browned but the sprouts were still sweet (not at all bitter) and not mushy. I added a bit of garlic and salt, they were perfect. Wish I had more right now.

I was surprised by how sweet and un-bitter fresh brussels sprouts taste when they're cooked right.
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  #49  
Old 02-16-2010, 05:21 PM
Lord Mondegreen Lord Mondegreen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maiira View Post
Eggs do not all come with salmonella in them. You will not keel over and die from eating raw cookie dough.
But if you've ever had salmonella poisoning from doing so, you'll do everything in your power to avoid having it again. So says my wife who, along with my daughters, was sick for weeks after eating dough.

Fortunately for me, I was at work during the dough-eating. Unfortunately for me, I was at home for the cleaning-up-after-the-sick-people.
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  #50  
Old 02-16-2010, 05:49 PM
GilaB GilaB is offline
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Location: New York, New York!
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Originally Posted by MadTheSwine View Post
Instant mashed potatos taste as good(or better) than home-made,and so much easier to make.
Ew. No. I remember being able to easily tell when my college cafeteria was using instant vs. real potatoes, and I flatly refused to eat the instant stuff. It's gluey, tasteless paste. But I agree with you on the sweet potato topping nonsense. At that point, it's dessert - tasty, but not a side dish.
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