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  #1  
Old 03-06-2010, 12:24 AM
Starving Artist Starving Artist is online now
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Shot through the heart, is death instantaneous?

I was watching a crime show the other night and a rapist/murderer committed suicide when the cops caught him by shooting himself in the heart while sitting in the front seat of his car. In the reenactment he fell over instantly and when a photo from the actual scene was shown he was slumped over in the same position, as though he didn't live any time at all after being shot. And I recall seeing videos from time to time where several people are shot simultaneously by a firing squad and they all go limp immediately with no thrashing around or other apparent signs of consciousness or pain, though often an officer will walk along afterward shooting each one in the head to make sure.

So I got to wondering, do people really black out and/or die instantly when they're shot through the heart? It seems to me that even though the heart has stopped beating, there should still be enough oxygen in the brain to keep the victim conscious for a good minute or two, with brain death not occurring for another eight to ten minutes or so.

So does anyone have any factual knowledge as to what happens when someone is shot through the heart?
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  #2  
Old 03-06-2010, 12:30 AM
Rilchiam Rilchiam is offline
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Well, it sure gives love a bad name.

Seriously, I've heard people say that "cardiac arrest" is meaningless as a cause of death, because everyone dies of cardiac arrest. Meaning, the heart is the last organ to stop working. So I would imagine if the heart is the first to stop, death would result either immediately, or in a very few seconds.
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  #3  
Old 03-06-2010, 12:45 AM
picunurse picunurse is offline
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The brain has about 4 minutes of oxygen, so no, a heart shot isn't instant death*. In fact, depending where the heart is injured, it's remotely possible to survive. That would only be if sophicated medical care was immediately at hand.

*I have sad personal knowledge of this. My grandfather shot himself in the heart. I was the first to reach him. He was able to say my name before he died.
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2010, 12:52 AM
Fastidiots Fastidiots is offline
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There's anecdotal evidence that being beheaded allows for a few moments of consciousness. If you were shot through the heart (or anywhere in the chest) with a very high powered assault rifle, hydrostatic shock turns all your organs to mush. In that respect perhaps the effect of the shot would be something like instant death, or inability to move. As usual though, Hollywood has given us a completely unrealistic perception of death. Dying is never pretty, and is virtually always a painful and somewhat drawn out affair.
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2010, 01:07 AM
don't ask don't ask is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picunurse View Post
The brain has about 4 minutes of oxygen, so no, a heart shot isn't instant death*. In fact, depending where the heart is injured, it's remotely possible to survive. That would only be if sophicated medical care was immediately at hand.
I nursed a guy who, attempting suicide, shot himself in the heart with a .22 rifle. The bullet lodged in the heart muscle and was only removed sometime later. He survived the whole experience only to quickly die from the undiagnosed cancer that he was suffering from.

Here is another shot in the heart story.

Last edited by don't ask; 03-06-2010 at 01:08 AM..
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2010, 01:15 AM
engineer_comp_geek engineer_comp_geek is offline
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From what I've read, if the heart completely stops you have maybe 5 to 10 seconds of consciousness, not a minute or two. I forget who it was, but on some famous last words site I read about a man (I think a doctor) who was dying and was checking his pulse. He was conscious long enough to say "it stopped" and then died.

There isn't just one way to get shot through the heart though. You could get shot by a very large round which may or may not completely obliterate the heart, but one way or another what remains of the heart can no longer effectively pump blood. In this case, if you had a really big hole, the sudden drop in blood pressure could easily cause you to lose consciousness pretty much immediately, much like standing up too quickly can sometimes do the same thing. You wouldn't be brain dead, but you wouldn't be conscious either.

You could also get shot through the heart and have the heart continue beating (which I see on preview that don't ask has already provided a good example of). Maybe your blood pressure would be reduced a bit and you would certainly bleed to death without medical treatment, but some folks have gotten to the hospital in time and have survived a bullet or knife through the heart. It may not be the most likely outcome but it happens.

So you could lose consciousness instantly, or never, or pretty much anywhere in between.

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Originally Posted by tvvat View Post
There's anecdotal evidence that being beheaded allows for a few moments of consciousness.
I've read a lot of those stories. In fact, I heard something about it on a TV show and thought no way, then jumped on the internet to do some research and that was how I found the Straight Dope way back when. A lot of the stories are exaggerations or complete fabrications written long after the fact. Cecil has one such story in one of his columns. I'm not sure I believe it, but I know better than to argue with Cecil.
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2010, 01:52 AM
Lok Lok is offline
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Well, Trace Adkins was "accidentally" shot through the heart by his second wife. He didn't press charges. He later became a fairly large country star and has 3 children with his 3rd wife, so I don't believe it was instantly fatal.
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  #8  
Old 03-06-2010, 02:00 AM
Starving Artist Starving Artist is online now
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This all makes sense. The murderer who shot himself through the heart used a .357 Magnum and the firing squad victims were shot with rifles at close range. I suppose that in the case of these deaths, hydrostatic shock or huge holes resulting in a rapid loss of blood pressure resulted in almost immediate loss of consciousness.

Ten seconds would be a pretty excruciating amount of time to spend conscious with the knowledge and pain involved in knowing that your heart has just been blown to bits, but it's still less so than a minute or two.

Thanks everyone for your answers, and especially you picunurse. I'm sorry I brought to mind a sad memory and I appreciate very much your willingness to explain what you learned through it anyway.

If anyone else would like to answer, please do so. I may away for the rest of the night though so thanks in advance if you do.
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2010, 02:07 AM
superluser superluser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
From what I've read, if the heart completely stops you have maybe 5 to 10 seconds of consciousness, not a minute or two. I forget who it was, but on some famous last words site I read about a man (I think a doctor) who was dying and was checking his pulse. He was conscious long enough to say "it stopped" and then died.
Big Mig had a resting heart rate of 28 beats per minute. That means that his heart stopped for a little over two seconds every time it beat. I don't know if he's that fit anymore.

So I'd guess that it would be longer than a couple seconds before you lose consciousness.
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2010, 02:24 AM
toofs toofs is offline
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In a firing squad scenario, a shot through the heart with a centerfire rifle would probably cut right through the spine, severing the spinal cord. This might account for the instant slump.

The brain, however, would not instantly cease functioning.
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  #11  
Old 03-06-2010, 04:25 AM
Toxylon Toxylon is offline
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Dunno, the only time small-game animals literally drop dead when I shoot them with airguns or arrows is when shot through the heart or straight through the neck, severing the spine. A multitude of other 100% lethal hits leave the target thrashing about for a second or two before expiring.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2010, 07:16 AM
KarlGauss KarlGauss is offline
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Possibly relevant is the clinical observation that people who experience cardiac syncope (i.e. sudden loss of consciousness due to an abnormal rhythm of the heart) drop instantly. Witnesses will note that the person collapsed in mid-sentence, with no premonitory signs that something was about to happen. Not even for a second. Generally, those who survive such an episode have absolutely no recollection of any sense that they were about to go down.

So, while death (brain death) may take several minutes, loss of consciousness would seem to be immediate when the heart stops.
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  #13  
Old 03-06-2010, 08:16 AM
Chief Pedant Chief Pedant is offline
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As noted, cardiac injuries are survivable on lucky occasions, so I think your question is more about how instantaneously loss of consciousness and death occur with a sudden loss of perfusion.

In the ED, this is a common occurrence from abnormal rhythms. Perhaps the most common controlled situation is the administration of adenosine, which we give to control certain very rapid heart rhythms. We inject a large bolus into a large arm vein. It takes a few seconds to travel to the heart and then the heart stops beating completely, allowing it to reset. Normally we'll only see a complete pause (asystole) of at most a few seconds. For those few seconds the patients usually describe a strange sensation, summarized by the phrase "a feeling of impending doom." It's not painful, but apparently nerve-wracking.

If asystole or other non-perfusing rhythm (ventricular fibrillation, e.g.) persists more than two or three seconds--at most, five seconds, I'd say--the patient becomes absolutely unconscious, and almost instantaneously. We still have a few minutes to resuscitate them before brain damage occurs. Every ED physician has seen cases where we keep resuscitating a patient's rhythm long enough to perfuse them and wake them up, followed by a bad rhythm requiring a countershock--sometimes quite a few times. The complaints we get from patients are when the rhythm partially perfuses them (but is still dangerous enough to need a countershock) because they don't like getting shocked while awake. When the rhythm is completely non-perfusing, they are out like a light instantaneously and don't complain until they wake up again (a countershock is a little like a horse kick, apparently).

In summary, with a complete loss of cardiac perfusion, you have two or three seconds of normal sensorium followed by a rapid (another two or three seconds at most) total loss of consciousness.
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2010, 07:20 PM
butto butto is offline
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Heart Shot

I asked my son this very question, since an ancestor of ours was killed near Kabul in Afghanistan, shot through the heart leading a cavalry charge over 130 years ago. My son is an Army surgeon and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He replied that with a high powered rifle, hydrostatic shock travels up the great vessels from the heart to the brain and smashes and pulps by massive bruising and death is instantaneousness. A lighter calibre weapon eg. .22 will cause much less of a shock wave. Therefore a firing squad is much faster than lethal injection, but of course messier to clean up.
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2010, 08:04 PM
wbeaty wbeaty is offline
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Hydrostatic waves aside, if you tried squeezing your carotid arteries right now, how long before you black out? Don't be like Vaugn Bodé. Keep your harness well greased.

Now that I mention that, I recall once almost fainting after leaping up off a friends couch. It was 3AM, I'd been asleep laying down. In getting up to use the bathroom, rather than rising normally, I pushed off in one violent motion to standing posture and ran up the staircase to their upper floor. (When nobody is watching, there's no real need adopt human behavior.) After about three seconds total elapsed time I experienced the typical tunnel vision and roaring noise. Oops. Blood pressure drop! Probably the blood flow to my brain slowed instantly as I stood up, and it took ~3sec before I started losing consciousness.
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  #16  
Old 12-31-2010, 08:08 PM
wbeaty wbeaty is offline
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Last edited by wbeaty; 12-31-2010 at 08:10 PM.. Reason: double post
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  #17  
Old 12-31-2010, 08:24 PM
don't ask don't ask is offline
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In my psych nursing days I had a patient who shot himself in the heart with a .22 rifle. The bullet lodged in his heart muscle and originally his medical team intended to leave it there, but it was interfering with the electrical signals to his ventricles so it was removed. He seemed to be making a recovery from the shooting and the surgery but ended up dying from cancer of the liver.
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  #18  
Old 12-31-2010, 10:39 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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How much misinformation and speculation can we squeeze into a single GQ thread?

Firstly, there is good research done on the subject of what constitutes an incapacitating shot done by the FBI. It is available online if you want to spend your time looking for it. There are numerous first hand accounts of people shot through the heart who continued to run and fight for several seconds afterwards.

We have literally dozens of examples of people shot through the heart by firing squad who lived for minutes, in one case almost half an hour, afterwards. That these people were shot through the heart can't be denied because it was confirmed by autopsy. Many of these firing squad subjects either retained or regained consciousness after being shot through the heart. In the British Army, one of the more unpleasant tasks of the officer in charge of the squad was to remain with the body for a minute after the execution. If the person was still alive they were required to deliver the coup de grace with a handgun round to the brain. The pain often caused the person to pass out but they would occasionally regain consciousness fairly rapidly. People breathing and moving after being shot was a normal occurrence and one reason why it was harder to find officer to volunteer for firing squads than enlisted men.

So there is no disputing that being shot through the heart isn't instantaneously fatal a large proportion of the time.

According to the CIA there are only two ways to instantly take somebody down with a bullet: a hit to the central nervous system or breaking the major leg bones. That is it. Any other wound at all, including heart shots, leaves the target with a very good chance of moving towards you and firing.

Secondly, the concept of hydrostatic shock is still being debated, but most ballistics experts don't believe it exists to any appreciable degree. The idea of rifle rounds turning organs to mush through hydrostatic shock is simply not true, or at least no evidence of it has ever been found in the real world.

Even if we accept that hydrostatic shock exists, the idea of hydrostatic shock travelling though the blood vessels to the brain and causing brain damage is simply ridiculous. Firstly it would require a round that struck but did not penetrate the ventricle. If it penetrated then any pressure would be dispersed out through the holes, just like the famous strobe photo of an apple being shot. Secondly it would require that the shot hit just as the ventricle was beginning to contract. A hit at any other time would have no fluid to displace. Even if those two highly improbable events did occur, the brain doesn't have a dedicated blood vessel from the heart. Any pressure increase would be distributed across the entire body, not transmitted ot the brain. The pressure compensation mechanisms that prevent the brain from experiencing excess pressure would easily cope with the tiny fraction of extra pressure that this miracle shot could produce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbeaty
if you tried squeezing your carotid arteries right now, how long before you black out?
250 milliseconds if done correctly. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. Pressure on the carotid sinus causes loss of consciousness though a nervous reflex designed to protect the brain form pressure fluctuation. It occurs regardless of how much or how little blood the brain is actually getting. As such it has absolutely no relevance to this thread.
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  #19  
Old 01-01-2011, 12:13 AM
Patch Patch is offline
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Dr. Vincent DiMiao, in his book Gunshot Wounds, documents a case where a man was shot in the heart at a range of 3-4 ft with a 12ga shotgun firing #7.5 birdshot. The guy's heart was shredded, but he turned and ran 65 feet before collapsing. If anything is going to stop you in your tracks, you would hope that would be on the list.

Anecdotally, I was at a wound ballistics seminar, and I heard a police officer relate the tale of a suspect who was holding a shotgun on two people. The police sniper fired a .223 bullet that pierced the man's heart. He was still able to fire the shotgun at one person, rack the slide, and was preparing to fire again when the sniper put a second shot into his head.
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  #20  
Old 01-01-2011, 12:47 AM
GusNSpot GusNSpot is online now
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Shot an small animal in the heart and it pretty much doesn't move.
Place one shot in the brain and it will flop and bounce for quite a while. Kinda disconcerting when it is a human.

Also, TV does not show the usual bladder and bowl release.
TV does not usually show the live babies spilling from a gut shot mother to be.

One thing you can count on, it will not be as you expect it to be. Takes a while to get callous about it.

YMMV
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  #21  
Old 01-01-2011, 03:50 AM
ramel ramel is offline
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I heard this only once and it was on the Internet, so you probably shouldn't give it too much weight.

But I heard that if you get shot through the heart, it can sent hydrostatic shockwaves throughout your arteries, including those which lead into the brain and the shockwave can kill your brain.

"Some guy on the Internet" not being the most reliable of source, treat what I wrote with caution =P

Last edited by ramel; 01-01-2011 at 03:51 AM.. Reason: minor clarification.
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  #22  
Old 01-01-2011, 04:28 AM
Cyningablod Cyningablod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusNSpot View Post
Shot an small animal in the heart and it pretty much doesn't move.
Place one shot in the brain and it will flop and bounce for quite a while. Kinda disconcerting when it is a human.

Also, TV does not show the usual bladder and bowl release.
TV does not usually show the live babies spilling from a gut shot mother to be.

One thing you can count on, it will not be as you expect it to be. Takes a while to get callous about it.

YMMV
What. the. fuck...?

What in Christ's name do you do for a living, Gus? Or is this some sick whoosh of a joke??

I know about the flopping/bouncing from CNS trauma, because as a kid growing up in the mountains of rural east TN, I hunted small game with a .22LR. Shot a lot of little critters that way.

But the humans? And the fetal evacuation and such? Seriously. WTF??
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2011, 06:00 AM
AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience is offline
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Having personally experienced a catastrophic drop in blood pressure multiple times over an extended period it did indeed feel like the 'head rush' associated with standing up to quickly. During the most extreme periods I would lose consciousness and wake up with no memory of doing so (I just found myself on the ground and had no idea how I got there). When it comes to death by being shot through the heart in the sense most people mean (a fatal shot from instant heart damage) or decapitation, based on my experience I don't think you have more than a few seconds of consciousness in this sort of situation and during them you are experiencing dwindling awareness. In the example from the TV show, if the guy shot himself with a reasonably high caliber bullet (a .38 or better) and hit himself dead in the heart it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume he slumped over instantly and didn't move for the few remaining seconds before he lost enough blood internally to lose consciousness. Unless he was in the lobby of a hospital, he's dead.

Last edited by AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience; 01-01-2011 at 06:01 AM.. Reason: typo
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  #24  
Old 01-01-2011, 12:40 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is offline
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Originally Posted by butto View Post
I asked my son this very question, since an ancestor of ours was killed near Kabul in Afghanistan, shot through the heart leading a cavalry charge over 130 years ago. My son is an Army surgeon and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He replied that with a high powered rifle, hydrostatic shock travels up the great vessels from the heart to the brain and smashes and pulps by massive bruising and death is instantaneousness. A lighter calibre weapon eg. .22 will cause much less of a shock wave. Therefore a firing squad is much faster than lethal injection, but of course messier to clean up.
Either you've badly misunderstood your son, your son is having a funny with you, or...otherwise. This is not the way hydrostatic shock works even when it is arguably a phenomenon for consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusNSpot View Post
Shot an small animal in the heart and it pretty much doesn't move.
Place one shot in the brain and it will flop and bounce for quite a while. Kinda disconcerting when it is a human.
Shooting a small animal (the size of a squirrel or rabbit) in the heart region and you're likely to both traumatize multiple organs and put a comparatively large enough hole that the loss of blood pressure is virtually immediate. It is the loss of blood pressure, and the subsequent lack of gas transport, i.e. the movement of oxygenated blood to the capillaries, which causes rapid loss of consciousness. The only oxygen then available is that still located in the capillaries, and even there the sudden drop in pressure reduces the rate of peripheral gas exchange, although trauma to the neck or head can cause capillary dilation that temporarily increases pressure. Basically, once the heart stops pumping, oxygen can't efficiently flow into the cells and cellular activity (including neural activity) slows exponentially.

Mammals, after being shot in the head in such a way as to severely damage or sever the brainstem (the primitive part of the brain that attaches to the spinal cord and is responsible for basic motor functions) will drop instantly. A mammal shot in the cerebellum or prosencephalon (forebrain) may live for seconds or even minutes, and there are occasional examples of seemingly lethal forebrain injuries for which animals and people have lived indefinitely. Less developed creatures like reptiles can often survive what would seem to be utterly lethal head injuries and continue to move, as their central nervous system is somewhat more distributed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake View Post
Secondly, the concept of hydrostatic shock is still being debated, but most ballistics experts don't believe it exists to any appreciable degree. The idea of rifle rounds turning organs to mush through hydrostatic shock is simply not true, or at least no evidence of it has ever been found in the real world.
This is true for handgun calibers, and generally true for many slower rifle rounds, for which the primary mechanism for damage is the primary wound channel. (It is true that some rounds have a greater tendency to tumble once changing mediums from air to the hydraulic environment of the body, as will any round that contacts bone or another solid material, but this is simply increasing the girth of the wound channel, not hydrostatic shock. Hydrostatic shock may play a larger role in hypervelocity rounds (>4000 ft/s) like the .220 Swift and .22-250 Remington, as varmint hunters can attest to, but again this is comparing damage on a small creature with a limited amount of blood/fluid volume to disperse the shock versus a human with a much larger mass to disperse.

For what it is worth, I've never heard of a credible forensics study or journal article on terminal ballistics that described an organ literally exploding from the passage of a bullet, though their are many instances of an organ being virtually shredded by a fragmented bullet. However, the tradeoff is that a fragmented round typically doesn't penetrate as deeply as a round that remains intact, hence why many newer hollowpoint bullet designs focus on controlled expansion and remaining intact. Never mind what you may hear or read about the "buzzsaw" effect of such rounds; you can see by photos of such rounds into ballistic gelatin that even after ~14 inches of penetration they've turned 1.5 to 2 turns, with a final diameter roughly twice the original size; again, increasing the permanent wound channel size but more importantly limiting overpenetration.

As for the o.p., the answer is no. In one piece of anecdota, my grandfather shot a robber in the chest (admittedly with a .32 S&W Long). Although his only knowledge of the forensics was from the arresting beat officers who claimed that the bullet penetrated into (or perhaps through) a ventricle of the heart, and despite the fact that the perpetrator spent twenty minutes bleeding on his shop floor while the police casually called an ambulance and shot the shit, he lived to make it to the hospital, have the bullet removed, successfully convalesce, and make an appearance in court, where he was subsequently convicted and sentenced to a long term, which he failed to fulfill owing to a tragic shaving accident in prison. (Apparently you shouldn't shave the back of your neck with a jagged piece of rusty steel filched from the work shop.) My grandfather subsequently upgraded to a .38 Spl snub nose with wadcutters loaded backwards, but never had a real-world opportunity to test it. So it is entirely possible to survive being shot in the heart, at least with a minor caliber weapon.

Stranger
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  #25  
Old 01-01-2011, 01:43 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don't ask View Post
In my psych nursing days I had a patient who shot himself in the heart with a .22 rifle. The bullet lodged in his heart muscle and originally his medical team intended to leave it there, but it was interfering with the electrical signals to his ventricles so it was removed. He seemed to be making a recovery from the shooting and the surgery but ended up dying from cancer of the liver.
I think you already told this story in this (semi-zombie) thread.
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  #26  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:02 AM
GusNSpot GusNSpot is online now
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Originally Posted by Cyningablod View Post
What. the. fuck...?

What in Christ's name do you do for a living, Gus? Or is this some sick whoosh of a joke??

I know about the flopping/bouncing from CNS trauma, because as a kid growing up in the mountains of rural east TN, I hunted small game with a .22LR. Shot a lot of little critters that way.

But the humans? And the fetal evacuation and such? Seriously. WTF??
I'm an old man and been here and there over the years. Seen a lot, did a lot and wish I could forget some of it. Why do you think the kids get PTSD keepin you safe in your little protected place.

World is mean & nasty most places when society breaks down. remember New Orleans? Better to not be so shocked and have a plan ready, sometimes you don't have time to think, just act. I might chose to die for you but I'm dam sure not going to die because of you. Standing there saying, "You can't." will get you in a hurt real quick. No time for that silly stuff.

Man's inhumanity to man has no bounds. Best remember that.

Don't pay me no mind it, never happened, just a story I made up.

And besides. I am just an old fart whistlin in the wind.
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  #27  
Old 01-29-2013, 12:31 PM
jcc449 jcc449 is offline
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I can share a true stories how Shot through heart is like

I can share you people here true stories how shot through the heart is like.
We do have Fatal Punishment in Taiwan, there are two type of executions, One shoot through the heart (Regular) and one shoot through the head(Hindbrain).


The regular execution is shooting through the heart because the corpse would look better in one piece.
The hindbrain execution (shoot through the head) is for organ donation, and this way the executed prisoner can keep most of his organ healthy.

A While ago, (about 20 years ago)
I witness a couple executions of major serious killers in Taiwan.

The Heart Shot is totally "NOT An Instantly" kill shot.
In fact, the prisoners usually are anesthetized before the shot, so they won't panic or feel huge pain. But there is one prisoner who refuse to take drug and insist that he wants to take the pain as a punishment for what he did.

When the first bullet went into his heart, he bounce up from the ground and yelling like hell bad, so the executor has to fire 2 more bullets into his chest to finalize his life.

Overall , the executor has to fire 2 shots (sometimes 3) in heart to kill a life.
There was also once a prisoner recovered from death half hour after been shot twice in heart, so the executor has to shoot him again.

On the other hand, the brain shot also result an undead case once.
But the surviving rate is a lot lower than the heart shot, and most of prisoners die instantly after one shot in the head.

Now, Fatal Execution is a lot less now in Taiwan now.
LIFE is a lot more complicated than we thought it is. Life can sometimes be a lot stronger and sometimes become so weak.

HOPE these experiences help you to understand better.
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  #28  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:50 PM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is online now
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Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
From what I've read, if the heart completely stops you have maybe 5 to 10 seconds of consciousness, not a minute or two. I forget who it was, but on some famous last words site I read about a man (I think a doctor) who was dying and was checking his pulse. He was conscious long enough to say "it stopped" and then died.
Dr. J. H. Green, M.D., DCL, Life Fellow of the UK Royal College of Surgeons.
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  #29  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:23 AM
needscoffee needscoffee is offline
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Originally Posted by jcc449 View Post
I can share you people here true stories how shot through the heart is like.
We do have Fatal Punishment in Taiwan, there are two type of executions, One shoot through the heart (Regular) and one shoot through the head(Hindbrain).


The regular execution is shooting through the heart because the corpse would look better in one piece.
The hindbrain execution (shoot through the head) is for organ donation, and this way the executed prisoner can keep most of his organ healthy.

A While ago, (about 20 years ago)
I witness a couple executions of major serious killers in Taiwan.

The Heart Shot is totally "NOT An Instantly" kill shot.
In fact, the prisoners usually are anesthetized before the shot, so they won't panic or feel huge pain. But there is one prisoner who refuse to take drug and insist that he wants to take the pain as a punishment for what he did.

When the first bullet went into his heart, he bounce up from the ground and yelling like hell bad, so the executor has to fire 2 more bullets into his chest to finalize his life.

Overall , the executor has to fire 2 shots (sometimes 3) in heart to kill a life.
There was also once a prisoner recovered from death half hour after been shot twice in heart, so the executor has to shoot him again.

On the other hand, the brain shot also result an undead case once.
But the surviving rate is a lot lower than the heart shot, and most of prisoners die instantly after one shot in the head.

Now, Fatal Execution is a lot less now in Taiwan now.
LIFE is a lot more complicated than we thought it is. Life can sometimes be a lot stronger and sometimes become so weak.

HOPE these experiences help you to understand better.
Truly a zombie thread!
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  #30  
Old 01-31-2013, 09:56 AM
chargerrich chargerrich is offline
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Well, it sure gives love a bad name.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:38 AM
MichaelEmouse MichaelEmouse is online now
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Additional factor to consider:

Someone can immediately pass out from a non-fatal injury or an injury which is not immediately fatal.

Say I get shot in something vital and because of the pain and fear, I pass out for a few minutes. Within those few minutes, my brain is low on oxygen and starts shutting down, which prolongs my state of unconsciousness. After 5-10 minutes, my heart stops and I die.

An outside observer who didn't take my vitals within that timeframe would think I died instantly even though my death took some time.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:53 AM
jcc449 jcc449 is offline
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One more story to share. about a death row who got a inverted heart.

One more story to share about the Execution Stories in Taiwan.

There was once, a death row got hit 4 times in heart position before he die.
That's because this death row has a very rare heart position and his heart located on the right side of chest instead of left.

The executor was very confused and couldn't figure out how come the heart shot didn't kill that guy and caused that dead row extremely pain.

So the executor fires 2 more shot on the "regular heart position" and the victim still remain alive and struggling extremely.

Finally, they found out this death row has irregular heart position (heart located in inverted position) and they finally execute him successfully at the end.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:02 PM
MichaelEmouse MichaelEmouse is online now
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Originally Posted by jcc449 View Post
One more story to share about the Execution Stories in Taiwan.

There was once, a death row got hit 4 times in heart position before he die.
That's because this death row has a very rare heart position and his heart located on the right side of chest instead of left.

The executor was very confused and couldn't figure out how come the heart shot didn't kill that guy and caused that dead row extremely pain.

So the executor fires 2 more shot on the "regular heart position" and the victim still remain alive and struggling extremely.

Finally, they found out this death row has irregular heart position (heart located in inverted position) and they finally execute him successfully at the end.

All's well that ends well.
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  #34  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:24 PM
leahcim leahcim is offline
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Originally Posted by jcc449 View Post
Finally, they found out this death row has irregular heart position (heart located in inverted position) and they finally execute him successfully at the end.
Do you have a cite for this (or at least the name of the guy)? I ask because while heart is kind of lopsided so it extends to the left a bit more than the right, the bulk of the heart is pretty much in the centre of the chest. If the guy's anatomy was so strange that a shot to the centre of the chest wouldn't get it, that's a little more than "inverted".
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:14 PM
drewtwo99 drewtwo99 is offline
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All's well that ends well.
Michael, this post here is one of the sickest posts I've ever read, and therefore, one of the most hilarious. Thank you for a deeply satisfying belly laugh!
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:33 PM
Tapioca Dextrin Tapioca Dextrin is offline
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After nearly three years has no one thought to post

"Need Answer Fast?"

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  #37  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:37 PM
running coach running coach is online now
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Originally Posted by Tapioca Dextrin View Post
After nearly three years has no one thought to post

"Need Answer Fast?"

After three years, there's no longer a hurry.
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  #38  
Old 02-03-2013, 11:54 AM
jcc449 jcc449 is offline
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heart locatd at right side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leahcim View Post
Do you have a cite for this (or at least the name of the guy)? I ask because while heart is kind of lopsided so it extends to the left a bit more than the right, the bulk of the heart is pretty much in the centre of the chest. If the guy's anatomy was so strange that a shot to the centre of the chest wouldn't get it, that's a little more than "inverted".
Ya. but it's in Chinese since it's happened in Taiwan lol.

http://www.nownews.com/2010/03/13/138-2579421.htm

This is this guy's photo
http://www.nownews.com/newspic/1326/i1326209.jpg
this guy kill two soldiers and stole their rifles and kidnapping a lot of people.
He is famous that his heart located at right instead of left and the executor shot him 5 times to end his life ( 4 times on the left chest).
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:58 AM
jcc449 jcc449 is offline
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Here is more video and pic

Here is more video and pics of his corpse ..... ( of course no details and bloody things)
http://www.appledaily.com.tw/appleda...0501/32479788/
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  #40  
Old 02-03-2013, 12:07 PM
jcc449 jcc449 is offline
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this is what usually happened

This is a X-Ray photo shows the inverted Heart position.
http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/81..._X-ray-SPL.jpg
As u can see, if you shoot a person at anywhere at the left chest won't injury the heart of this person. however , in the normal situation, any regular people would got heart shot for the same position.
OF COURSE if you shoot right in the middle you "should" able to kill either way, but most of time, people are taught that heart is not very much in the center, so the gunman usually aim a bit to the left chest instead of center.
IN This X-Ray u can see the heart is actually shifting so much to the right (almost near the right nipple).

Last edited by jcc449; 02-03-2013 at 12:09 PM..
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