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  #201  
Old 03-18-2010, 01:07 PM
ENugent ENugent is offline
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Originally Posted by MitzeKatze View Post
In the meantime I am still looking for daughter's cell phone. I can't do anything through the provider because I know nothing about it. Until recently I didn't know daughter had one of her own. It was a gift from her bio-mom who told her (apparently in so many words) to hide it from us...and she has. Daughter denied its existence as long as she could (despite having the number on her FB page and talking to her friends about texting etc.) and now says that she does have it, but left it at bio-mom's house. I am not buying that for a second, and she had until today for the phone to materialize, but so far it hasn't. She apparently wants to do this the hard way...
You have the number from her FB page - what happens if you call her on it? Can you hear it ringing somewhere?
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  #202  
Old 03-18-2010, 01:17 PM
Joey P Joey P is online now
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You have the number from her FB page - what happens if you call her on it? Can you hear it ringing somewhere?
make sure to use *67 before the number to block caller ID.
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  #203  
Old 03-18-2010, 01:56 PM
AuntiePam AuntiePam is offline
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A minor thing but something that might change your daughter's perception of this guy -- when you're talking about him, with your daughter and the therapist or whomever -- don't refer to him as "an older man" or an "older guy" or by his name-- refer to him as "the sex offender" or "the pervert". It might help her see him in a different light. It de-romanticizes and belittles him and makes it harder for her to defend him, partly because it reflects back on her, for choosing him, and partly because she'll start to see him as others see him, and that's important to kids.

My daughter was involved with a real loser when she was in her late teens. Me pointing this out made no impression on her, but when I started referring him to as "doofus", "Doofus is on the phone!" "Is that Doofus in the driveway?", it helped deflate him. He wasn't a boogeyman anymore, he was just a doofus, somebody to laugh at. My daughter told me that was the beginning of the end, thinking of him that way. Maybe it'd help with the perv.
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  #204  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:07 PM
MitzeKatze MitzeKatze is offline
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Originally Posted by ENugent View Post
You have the number from her FB page - what happens if you call her on it? Can you hear it ringing somewhere?
Calling it goes straight to voice mail, and I can't hear it so maybe the phone is turned off. I am sure she was prepared this morning because it wasn't a secret that the phone will be found, and at this point will be confiscated. We were willing to let her have it within the boundaries, but this stubbornness in turning it over put an end to that. Bad enough that she continued to lie about it...now this is just the icing on the cake.

She is currently with her oldest brother (playing video games I think) but in nothing but her pajamas with nothing belonging to her on her person and downstairs. Meanwhile my husband and I are systematically searching her room, purses, jackets, book bags, etc. So far we have found some interesting things, but not the phone...and I am tired so I am taking a break.

We're about halfway done I think. The next thing I am doing is taking apart the bed, my gut feeling is that's where we will find it, but I will let you know.

Sigh...I just want my sweet, well behaved little girl back!

Last edited by MitzeKatze; 03-18-2010 at 03:07 PM..
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  #205  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:21 PM
malkavia malkavia is offline
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I don't have any advice to offer, but I wanted to chime in and tell MitzeKatze how proud I am of her for being a good, conscientious parent who clearly loves her kids and places her daughters well-being and safety well above her own comfort.

It takes a lot of guts (and unending patience) to stand up to a teenager and be a parent instead of a BFF.

Good on you, MitzeKatze! Thank you for what you do. I, like many others, will be watching this thread with interest.
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  #206  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:30 PM
Heart of Dorkness Heart of Dorkness is offline
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I don't have anything to contribute either, but I also want to say, MitzeKatze, you're absolutely, positively doing the right thing. I wish all moms could be as caring and courageous as you. I know you may feel a little leery about setting all these limits and restrictions, and it can be exhausting enforcing them, but don't let that dissuade you. Keep up the good work, and know that you're doing right by your daughter.
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  #207  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:33 PM
aruvqan aruvqan is offline
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Originally Posted by MitzeKatze View Post

What do y'all think of this idea (and cut me some slack for it being 4 AM so I am possibly not thinking clearly ). We have been talking about moving bedrooms around as my oldest son is about to go to basic training (he has the basement) and I have been wanting to turn one of the upstairs bedrooms into a computer/sewing room...so would I be incredibly out of line thinking that now might be a good time for the girls to share a bedroom? I could put them into the (extremely large) basement room and then I would know that my older daughter would know what the younger is getting up to in her room.

It's just a thought right now, because I do not want my older girl to become a spy for me, and I don't want them to lose any trust or sisterly love over the youngest's behavior but then too the youngest has been hiding all of this from her sister as well...so would doubling them up make her sneakier or would it take away her ability to do so?
Actually, that sounds like a great idea ... though I would make sure she couldn't sneak out of any basement windows without it being too obvious.

This would be a great idea in that you could [if money is reasonably available] make the girls design their perfect room, color, furniture and so forth. Getting them into designing, and then making [wall painting and stuff like that] is sort of like getting the picky eater involved in making food so they would actually eat [kind of riffing off the various picky eater threads] The resulting room could be seen as being inclusive [I know the therapist would have better words for it] rather than a punishment by making the other girl a spy. Sort of like in the old 50s movies where the one kid goes away and you get a 'promotion' in living arrangements.

and if you notice, some of the cell blockers are VERY limited in range ... have to check but maybe one is only strong enough to do the basement....?
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  #208  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:38 PM
Heart of Dorkness Heart of Dorkness is offline
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Originally Posted by aruvqan View Post
Actually, that sounds like a great idea ... though I would make sure she couldn't sneak out of any basement windows without it being too obvious.
Good point! I knew lots of kids (which may or may not include myself) who did this. One option would be to install glass block windows which can't be opened. An added bonus is that it would offer better insulation and more privacy for their room.
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  #209  
Old 03-18-2010, 04:08 PM
Joey P Joey P is online now
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Originally Posted by Heart of Dorkness View Post
Good point! I knew lots of kids (which may or may not include myself) who did this. One option would be to install glass block windows which can't be opened. An added bonus is that it would offer better insulation and more privacy for their room.
It could also very well be a code violation if it's an egress window (designed for someone to get out if they are caught in the basement during a fire). You'd be better off just going to radio shack and getting a loud door alarm for the window. Of course it can be tricked with a magnet, but at least it's a start.
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  #210  
Old 03-18-2010, 04:13 PM
EmAnJ EmAnJ is offline
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It could also very well be a code violation if it's an egress window (designed for someone to get out if they are caught in the basement during a fire). You'd be better off just going to radio shack and getting a loud door alarm for the window. Of course it can be tricked with a magnet, but at least it's a start.
I agree, blocking off windows like that is a very dangerous idea! Alarms might be the best bet.
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  #211  
Old 03-18-2010, 04:41 PM
Heart of Dorkness Heart of Dorkness is offline
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It could also very well be a code violation if it's an egress window (designed for someone to get out if they are caught in the basement during a fire). You'd be better off just going to radio shack and getting a loud door alarm for the window. Of course it can be tricked with a magnet, but at least it's a start.
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I agree, blocking off windows like that is a very dangerous idea! Alarms might be the best bet.
Interesting! I didn't think of that.
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  #212  
Old 03-18-2010, 04:48 PM
Shot From Guns Shot From Guns is offline
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Poisonous snakes in the window wells! That way, she can still get out in an emergency, but if you're not around to administer the antidote, she won't get very far.
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  #213  
Old 03-18-2010, 08:32 PM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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If you have her phone number, you should be able to find the phone records.

Here's a start -
http://fonefinder.net/

Here's an option where it will give you more details for $5
http://www.intelius.com/people-search-phone.html

If you can find the service provider, you (or your lawyer) should be able to get the info as the minor's legal guardian. From there, you could probably get the phone shut off.

You might have to go to court for it. But it might be worth it.

From the other end, if you know the phone is in Bio Mom's name, you should be able to find out which service she uses. Daughter's phone is probably the same.
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  #214  
Old 03-18-2010, 08:56 PM
pudytat72 pudytat72 is offline
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You might want to consider a hidden microphone in her room. Could be as simple as a "baby monitor" under the bed or dresser, or something more sophisticated.
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  #215  
Old 03-18-2010, 09:05 PM
Alice The Goon Alice The Goon is offline
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Originally Posted by pudytat72 View Post
You might want to consider a hidden microphone in her room. Could be as simple as a "baby monitor" under the bed or dresser, or something more sophisticated.

Now that's going too far, IMO- that really is spying.


This
Quote:
Poisonous snakes in the window wells! That way, she can still get out in an emergency, but if you're not around to administer the antidote, she won't get very far.
made me laugh out loud.
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  #216  
Old 03-18-2010, 09:35 PM
TruCelt TruCelt is offline
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Cell phone is most likely in the bathroom. Or if you have drop ceilings anywhere, check up in the tiles. Ask yourself, "what is the least-used room in the house?" It's in there. Or buried in the linen closet. . .

Man, the more I think about this the more overwhelming it seems. :-(

I'm thinking of you and wishing you strength while you walk through this. You are doing a great job!

Last edited by TruCelt; 03-18-2010 at 09:36 PM..
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  #217  
Old 03-18-2010, 09:40 PM
drachillix drachillix is offline
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Originally Posted by MitzeKatze View Post
I like it but it would have the unfortunate side effect of jamming our cell phones too, wouldn't it?
Might be fun to get one of the lower powered ones and find a way to conceal it in or near her room. IF properly positioned you might be able to isolate the jamming to her room. Heck just flipping it on for a few minutes and having her get frustrated with the lack of ability to use her phone may become quite discouraging.

Hubby might also be able to use a service like googles grand central to arrange for a house phone to ring during jamming on the chance someone might call after hours.
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  #218  
Old 03-18-2010, 10:07 PM
MitzeKatze MitzeKatze is offline
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Great suggestions everyone! I am particularly considering the poisonous snakes...

But more seriously, our basement doesn't have windows except those little tiny slivers that barely let in light and aren't big enough for anyone to get in or out of, so that's not a concern (although that worried me when we first moved in in case of fire etc. but it has two sets of stairs; one to the living room and one to the dining room and smoke detectors everywhere, so I am feeling better about it than we first moved in.) It's a rented townhouse so I am not sure how much painting etc. I want done down there but I have mentioned it to the girls, and they seem okay with the idea too. I did tell them that if they combined, I'd take them out to shop for new comforters, area rugs, etc. to personalize the space. I think they liked that idea better than changing rooms, but whatever works without a fight is good with me.

The cell phone...that stupid thing at which I am directing all my anger and frustration...was found. It took hours. And by that time I had checked the bathroom and linen closet too. It wasn't in the bed as I suspected, so I moved mattresses and dismantled the whole thing for nothing...but it was probably time to flip the mattress anyway. Where it ended up being is so stupid that it shows my girl isn't really thinking deviously enough but at the same time I thought it was so obvious that I didn't think to look there first, so maybe she was on to something...She has a jewelry box with a false bottom. When she was a kid that's where I would "hide" notes to her and pieces of candy and little things. And that's where she hid the phone. She did tip me off a bit by hiding the jewelry box behind a shelf full of stuffed animals, but if I had been thinking straight, I would have looked for that first (I'd like to think...really though I thought that was way too obvious of a hiding spot).

By the time we found it, I was so angry. I had worked up a good head of steam by then and it took everything I had not to throw it at the wall or something. She got upset and cried and yelled about how it was hers (and then argued that it was her mom's) and that we had no right to take it...so we didn't. I did take the battery, the sim card, the key pad and everything else I could take apart without ruining it (it can all be reassembled in a matter of seconds) and handed her the empty shell. If she wants to be a smart ass then I can be too. I know that was petty, but it made me feel better. And I locked up the parts in our safe so I know I don't have to worry about it at least for a while...

She has shut herself into her room ostensibly to put it back together and begin de-cluttering for moving day, but I think she is probably pouting. She said only a few words at dinner (which were all meal related) and won't even look at us, but it is still better a reaction than what I was expecting.
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  #219  
Old 03-18-2010, 10:48 PM
needscoffee needscoffee is offline
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I have had several friends who were able to get an at-risk kid turned around by sending them away for a period of time to a place far removed from where their difficulties are (in one case, all the way to China for a school year, where the bio-dad was working). Do you think her spending the summer with her beloved relatives might be beneficial for her? It would keep her away from bio-mom, away from home tensions, and she might mature a little bit, living in a different environment. Just a thought.
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  #220  
Old 03-19-2010, 12:11 AM
Dallas Jones Dallas Jones is offline
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You can buy Mobile Spy, install it on her cell phone, give it back to her and literally watch every call and text and follow her GPS location if you want, right from your computer.

http://www.gohacking.com/2009/06/cell-phone-spy.html

Last edited by Dallas Jones; 03-19-2010 at 12:12 AM..
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  #221  
Old 03-19-2010, 12:17 AM
AClockworkMelon AClockworkMelon is offline
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Originally Posted by ghardester View Post
You can buy Mobile Spy, install it on her cell phone, give it back to her and literally watch every call and text and follow her GPS location if you want, right from your computer.

http://www.gohacking.com/2009/06/cell-phone-spy.html
Be careful. Remember it's not the daughter's phone, it's her biological mother's. I'm not exactly sure but I think it's illegal to install a tracing device on another person's phone without their consent.
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  #222  
Old 03-19-2010, 12:32 AM
needscoffee needscoffee is offline
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You can buy Mobile Spy, install it on her cell phone, give it back to her and literally watch every call and text and follow her GPS location if you want, right from your computer.

http://www.gohacking.com/2009/06/cell-phone-spy.html
It only works on certain compatible smart phones.
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  #223  
Old 03-19-2010, 02:00 AM
MitzeKatze MitzeKatze is offline
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I don't think we will need to go that far with the cell phone. Her bio-mom is known for not paying her bills and she complained to us just a few months ago that she couldn't get a cell plan (in her name after she separated from her husband) because she had defaulted on all the major carriers over the years, so no one would give her a plan without some astronomical deposit that she doesn't have. [We got the tale of woe because she is required to keep us updated with all current phone numbers and addresses.] Because of this, my guess is the phone is either a pay-as-you go phone or an added line on one of her (bio-mom's) many "boyfriend's" plans. (The number traces back to ATT&T, bio-mom's most recent phone number is through Sprint.) Either way I don't see the bill getting paid any time soon (just knowing bio-mom; she doesn't pay her child support either...) and we know it is at least 2 months old, so I can almost count on disconnection within the next month or so, with or without our involvement.

The bigger concern is keeping our daughter from acquiring a new one and keeping her to age-appropriate communication when she does. I also know now that the next hiding place be it for cell phones, or anything else she is not supposed to have will be more creative, so I'd rather not give her the opportunity to hide anything for a while. Her Dad has instituted a backpack/purse search before school and when she gets home again (starting next week when she's back in school) and her jackets are kept (and are to stay) in the hallway closet so that pockets can be searched as needed. Thanks to some good advice I got, I am also keeping my eye on the backyard, outside window sills and bushes where things can be hidden (or dropped from a window) to be retrieved later. I am sure she is going to be hating life for a while, but she isn't going to get anything past us again. [Side funny story: one of the things we found while searching her room was a disciplinary notice from school that was supposed to be signed by us. Apparently she got a lunchtime detention for texting at school, and when the teacher who caught her told her to stop she said "let me finish this first..." which escalated the infraction to after school detention which she didn't serve. So we have more cell phone follies and now an unserved detention that will have to be dealt with at school as well.]

needscoffee
, I like that idea. We are sending her away for one week in June, and we have the registration forms we were considering for a camp (run by a church, meant for "troublesome" teens but also looks like a lot of fun) that will be the last week of June and first week of July. We are also looking at classes (fun ones) and programs to keep her busy over the summer. We are obligated by the custody orders right now to stay (or at least keep her) within the school district right now, but hopefully that will go away if bio-mom loses her visitation. Even just a semester away from home might do her some good...that is something we will definitely keep in mind!

Thanks, everyone, for the responses and suggestions. I need all the help I can get right now, and your (virtual) support is doing wonders. So much I wouldn't have even considered, but now I can make sure I follow up on.

The therapist session is tomorrow...this will be only the second time she has seen this therapist (it's only been a little over 2 weeks since she was discharged from the psych hospital- it feels like months though!- and she only sees the therapist once a week) so I feel kind of bad laying this on the therapist too so early on, but I am glad things are going rather quickly so that we can get them resolved quickly as well, and hopefully get her (my daughter) back on the right track.

As an update on the Predator portion...even though I was told he was taken in on a parole violation, his own FB page has been active today (and two more "in a relationship with..." and back to "single" statuses just today!) so I am not sure if he is back out, if the PD was just placating me by saying that in the first place or if someone else is using the account as well. I don't like it in any case and since I have access to my daughter's FB account and she doesn't at the moment, I went ahead and blocked him from her account. Maybe if he is around, if he cannot reach her by phone or Facebook, he will just stop (which he might already have done...no new messages for a while on the internet at least) and then my daughter might see that he never really "loved" her or cared about her at all if he just (from her perspective) stopped talking to her for no reason.
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  #224  
Old 03-19-2010, 03:34 AM
AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet is offline
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Does she have any underlying pyschological issues? What about stuff like social issues?
A lot of girls with issues (when something like this happens) think " I had no real friends/no real love. This is a gift from heaven!" They can be so dysfunctional that any attention seems healthy or good.
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  #225  
Old 03-19-2010, 04:07 AM
MitzeKatze MitzeKatze is offline
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Originally Posted by AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet View Post
Does she have any underlying pyschological issues? What about stuff like social issues?
A lot of girls with issues (when something like this happens) think " I had no real friends/no real love. This is a gift from heaven!" They can be so dysfunctional that any attention seems healthy or good.
She had a breakdown last month, which put her into the psych hospital for almost 2 weeks. Before that I would have said no underlying issues, and we hadn't seen any symptoms of it at all. What spurred that incident was her getting into trouble for pills I found in her room (prescription; she claimed they were from bio-mom's house, but bio-mom denies). Over the course of treatment at the hospital she claimed some social issues, but we have witnessed none. She is popular, lots of friends, (was) always happy and laughing, etc. The psychiatrist and therapists there said they thought she was making things up though (and do not believe her to have any social problems at all) and they believe her biggest psychological issue is that which has been instigated by her bio-mom (who has been at it all of our daughter's life) leaving her with loyalty issues and being "torn" between her parents. He bio-mom for example, makes her refute her love for her father and me during visitation, then claims that if daughter calls us her "parents" it means she doesn't love her (bio-mom) and she gets in trouble, or if she calls our house "home" she gets in trouble, etc. Her mother has often told her that she (bio-mom) will kill herself if daughter loves us or daughter is happy at home.

Bio-Mom did attempt suicide and told daughter she did it because daughter wanted to spend the night with a friend (sleepover) on a visitation day. Bio-Mom claimed to daughter that proved she didn't love her enough so she should just kill herself (which she almost did). I could go on and on...but the whole bio-mom/daughter relationship is just toxic and I believe the therapists when they say that daughter needs to get away from that and it will resolve most if not all of her psychological problems.

However, since she does have loyalty issues and is conflicted because of that, I would think that could cause her to seek out (or glom onto) an unhealthy relationship for similar reasons.
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  #226  
Old 03-19-2010, 06:43 AM
Joey P Joey P is online now
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Not that you need another thing to worry about, but I might suggest you call the cell phone carrier and just double check that it's not in your daughter's name. I'm not suggesting that she went to the store herself and got it, but I'd just want to make sure that bio-mom didn't put sign a contract in daughter's name. No reason in ruining daughter's credit too.
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  #227  
Old 03-19-2010, 08:05 AM
Poysyn Poysyn is offline
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My older sister was very troubled when she was in her mid-teens and eventually it led to a suicide attempt.

My parents made the difficult decision to send her to stay with a Pastor and his family in Texas. Part of the stay was at a Christian camp in Glorietta.

She came back a very different person. I am not going to say it solved everything, because it did not, but it did put her closer to the right path.

I will add though, that she already had positive experience with religion and Christian faith before this.
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  #228  
Old 03-19-2010, 08:17 AM
Surly Chick Surly Chick is offline
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How is it that bio-mom still has visitation rights when contact with her has clearly been harmful to you daughter? Is there anyway you can go back to court to amend the custody agreement with help from the psychiatrist?

Man, this thread makes me glad I have a dog instead. Best wishes to you, Mitze. We're all here if you need us!
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  #229  
Old 03-19-2010, 08:36 AM
Dragwyr Dragwyr is offline
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Originally Posted by MitzeKatze View Post
However, since she does have loyalty issues and is conflicted because of that, I would think that could cause her to seek out (or glom onto) an unhealthy relationship for similar reasons.
I'm having the same types of issues with my nephew right now, but nephew seeing a counselor has been helping a lot lately. The counselor knows that nephew's mom is never going to change her destructive behavior and his job has been to slowly make nephew realize this fact, which he has, but he still has his moments... especially when the mom has been telling him that she's going to get him back (Which she is not. She has done nothing to demonstrate to us that she is cleaning up her life). Through many therapy sessions, he is coming to realize that he can still love his mother, but understand that she has major issues that she refuses to change. Basically its a "Hate the actions, but love the person, and adjust your expectations accordingly" approach. Our problem now is that nephew is still having a hard time reconsiling his love of his mother from his knowledge that mom will never get him back and never get better. Its going to take a long time for him to heal.

If your therapist is any good, this is probably the path he/she is going to take with your daughter. It will take a long time, but things will get better as long as you stay with it.

Last edited by Dragwyr; 03-19-2010 at 08:39 AM..
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  #230  
Old 03-19-2010, 08:48 AM
Dante Dante is offline
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Originally Posted by Surly Chick View Post
How is it that bio-mom still has visitation rights when contact with her has clearly been harmful to you daughter? Is there anyway you can go back to court to amend the custody agreement with help from the psychiatrist?
Because sometimes the system just sucks out loud. My wife works for Children's Aid, and she's seen this a number of times. Someone who otherwise would hardly even be allowed near children gets custody of one just because they managed to squirt it out.

MitzeKatze, for whatever it's worth, I had my wife read this thread and she's very impressed with you. Well, for the first page or two she was yelling "just go to the damn cops!", but now she's impressed. As am I. Hope everything turns out for the best.
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  #231  
Old 03-19-2010, 09:33 AM
Heart of Dorkness Heart of Dorkness is offline
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Originally Posted by MitzeKatze View Post
The therapist session is tomorrow...this will be only the second time she has seen this therapist (it's only been a little over 2 weeks since she was discharged from the psych hospital- it feels like months though!- and she only sees the therapist once a week) so I feel kind of bad laying this on the therapist too so early on, but I am glad things are going rather quickly so that we can get them resolved quickly as well, and hopefully get her (my daughter) back on the right track.
Just wanted to add that you should not feel bad at all about laying this on the therapist. This is exactly what the therapist is there for. I completely understand the feeling of not wanting to burden others with your problems - I initially acted that way toward therapists myself, and it only hinders their ability to help. You've got to remember that this is the the therapist's job, and the sooner everything is out in the open, the better. You wouldn't be shy about telling your doctor about a broken bone just because it was your first visit with them, so don't be shy about sharing your family issues with your therapist.
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  #232  
Old 03-19-2010, 09:39 AM
Ann Hedonia Ann Hedonia is offline
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Originally Posted by Poysyn View Post
My older sister was very troubled when she was in her mid-teens and eventually it led to a suicide attempt.

My parents made the difficult decision to send her to stay with a Pastor and his family in Texas. Part of the stay was at a Christian camp in Glorietta.

She came back a very different person. I am not going to say it solved everything, because it did not, but it did put her closer to the right path.

I will add though, that she already had positive experience with religion and Christian faith before this.
At one point during the family saga with my troubled sister, my Mom sent her to live with my aunt and her family. The couple was much older ( there was a 25 yr spread in age between my Mom and her sister) and the husband was a pastor. They also lived in a very rural area.

She was a little calmer when she came back but it wasn't the end of the trouble. I remember it mostly as a respite for the rest of the family.

Be VERY careful about the church camp for troubled kids. My church camp experience was that the adult supervisors were trying very hard NOT to be authority figures and we got away with lots of sex alcohol and drug related misbehavior.......and why I have no doubt that she and the other troubled teens will have a great time but it may not be...............totally wholesome.

Lastly, if you decide to have the girls share a room you should extend some extra privileges to the oldest.............she will be losing some privacy here and she may feel that she is being punished for her sister's behavior.
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  #233  
Old 03-19-2010, 10:43 AM
Shot From Guns Shot From Guns is offline
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Another thought with the "troubled teen" camp: are you sure you want to put her in a concentrated area of kids with problems who might pass on better strategies for hiding things from you?
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  #234  
Old 03-19-2010, 11:07 AM
EddyTeddyFreddy EddyTeddyFreddy is offline
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Another thought with the "troubled teen" camp: are you sure you want to put her in a concentrated area of kids with problems who might pass on better strategies for hiding things from you?
First poisonous snakes in the window wells, now this. Are you speaking from firsthand experience?
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  #235  
Old 03-19-2010, 11:10 AM
Shot From Guns Shot From Guns is offline
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:innocent whistling:

I was actually an obscenely well behaved child, all things considered.
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  #236  
Old 03-19-2010, 12:58 PM
MitzeKatze MitzeKatze is offline
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How is it that bio-mom still has visitation rights when contact with her has clearly been harmful to you daughter? Is there anyway you can go back to court to amend the custody agreement with help from the psychiatrist?
Pretty much, this...

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Because sometimes the system just sucks out loud.
It's a long story, but heck I am already up to how many pages?
The custody issues and subsequent battles have been going on since birth (husband divorced bio-mom when daughter was an infant). Husband got residential custody at the time because bio-mom is a nut-job (I believe that is the medical term ) but they shared joint legal custody. That proved to be too much responsibility for bio-mom and all kinds of heinous things were done as well as the initial indoctrination of the kids against Dad (daughter has an older biological brother, but he is 19 now and no longer subject to the custody or visitation orders. I don't know the last time he spoke with bio-mom). Dad took her back to court for contempt and custodial interference on several occasions which eventually got her legal custody taken away, and her visitation rights suspended.

After a few months she fought to re-gain visitation and was awarded supervised visitation easing back into "regular" visitation. She chose not to take advantage of that and just fought for unsupervised. That took another year or two but she eventually got it and the schedules were adjusted over the years (husband was military and we never lived close enough for a normal schedule to work) to accommodate distance. She sometimes used all of her visitation and sometimes didn't see or speak to the kids for months at a time. During that time her visitation was suspended once or twice more (for not using it) but was given back when she asked the judge for it.

Then when my husband retired from the military she decided to file for full (and sole legal) custody which was essentially laughed at given her history, but the judge is a PITA who cannot see past her being "mommy" and is willing to give her every possible chance to redeem herself. So...the orders were written that we would move here (something we offered during a settlement conference, but now regret) and that she would still have no legal custody but would have the standard visitation (every other weekend and one dinner visit per week). Because the judge felt sorry for her (my guess) he decided that after a period of time we should work toward a 50/50 time split (only because we live close enough to each other to make that work if this were a "normal" parenting arrangement). Bio-mom still has only sporadically used her visitation though, some months she uses it all and wants more, sometimes she skips it because something (or someone) more fun came up, and after a few years she just got to the point that judge wanted us to start increasing the time (after x number of weeks without missing a visit, the dinner visit was supposed to become an overnight) and he had it set to go to 50/50 this summer. Then all this happened and daughter's therapists said she should sever all contact with bio-mom.

The first thing we did upon hearing that was to act on it (while daughter was still in the hospital) and got the psychiatrists and two of the therapists to write affidavits in support which we used to file for an emergency hearing asking for bio-mom's visitation to be removed or alternately to be supervised (with me or Dad as supervisor). The judge wouldn't even read the affidavits because we have actions pending (status conferences re: the increasing visitation schedule) and he didn't think it was enough for an emergency hearing. So that's where we stand right now. Bio-Mom is supposed to be getting her own psych evals and home studies done before the hearing on the visitation becoming 50/50 and we won't have a date until she notifies the court that has been done. The judge ruled on our emergency motion that everything should stay as it is now until the full hearing whenever that may end up being.

So my opinion is that the judge just sucks and doesn't understand the severity or the situation, or just doesn't care.


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Originally Posted by Shot From Guns View Post
Another thought with the "troubled teen" camp: are you sure you want to put her in a concentrated area of kids with problems who might pass on better strategies for hiding things from you?
We have thought about that. That's why we are still just considering it. The camp looks like an awful lot of fun (but then again would their brochures make it look bad?) but the teaming her up with others (who may be able to give her tips) is something that definitely concerns us. This particular camp has a good reputation and we tangentially know the operators, but even the best intentions...

This is probably something we will discuss with the therapist as well. Speaking of that, I have to go get ready for that appointment, so I will be back later this afternoon with even more updates.

And thanks everyone for all the responses.I was going to try to answer each one, but that was too much for me. If I have left anything out I am sorry and will fill it in later, but just so y'all know I am not ignoring anyone.
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  #237  
Old 03-19-2010, 01:31 PM
ratatoskK ratatoskK is offline
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Originally Posted by MitzeKatze View Post
Then all this happened and daughter's therapists said she should sever all contact with bio-mom.

The first thing we did upon hearing that was to act on it (while daughter was still in the hospital) and got the psychiatrists and two of the therapists to write affidavits in support which we used to file for an emergency hearing asking for bio-mom's visitation to be removed or alternately to be supervised (with me or Dad as supervisor). The judge wouldn't even read the affidavits because we have actions pending (status conferences re: the increasing visitation schedule) and he didn't think it was enough for an emergency hearing.
... Or judge is sleeping with bio-mom!!
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  #238  
Old 03-19-2010, 01:51 PM
Heart of Dorkness Heart of Dorkness is offline
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Just out of curiosity, since I have no experience with custody issues and such, am I correct in understanding that it's been just the one judge handling this all along? Is that how things typically go? On the one hand, given the nature of the situation, I'm sure it's helpful to have someone who's already familiar with your family's history, so you don't have to rehash the issues each time you have a hearing. But on the other hand, if you get stuck with a judge who's not taking things as seriously as you feel is warranted, you have no recourse. Is there any sort of appeals process if you're not satisfied with a judgement (or the judge)?
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  #239  
Old 03-19-2010, 01:57 PM
Beadalin Beadalin is offline
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Summer camp can be absolutely wonderful, but I'd encourage you to look for camps that don't have an agenda beyond helping teens grow and try new things. Unless it's run by YOUR church, you should be very, very wary of that sort of camp.

You're doing all the right things, here. Good luck to you.
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  #240  
Old 03-19-2010, 02:49 PM
aruvqan aruvqan is offline
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Originally Posted by MitzeKatze View Post

The judge ruled on our emergency motion that everything should stay as it is now until the full hearing whenever that may end up being.

So my opinion is that the judge just sucks and doesn't understand the severity or the situation, or just doesn't care.
You know, if it can somehow come out that mum is somehow encouraging the behavior, encouraging her to find risky relationships and enabling them [and I do not see why any tween *needs* a cell phone to be perfectly honest. If anything, one of the phones that is programmed for 911 and HOME only at most. I know that the predominance now is for no landlines and all cells in a household, but kids need supervision.] maybe the judge will reconsider this bullshit of her womb units request for custody.

One would hope that the Judge will consider a pedophile *dangerous* and see a need for stability, which I can not see coming from shared custody. Any way of proving the womb unit is off her meds?
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  #241  
Old 03-19-2010, 03:45 PM
drachillix drachillix is offline
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Originally Posted by ratatoskK View Post
... Or judge is sleeping with bio-mom!!
Or bio mom just happens to know who judge IS sleeping with...
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  #242  
Old 03-19-2010, 03:53 PM
Tastes of Chocolate Tastes of Chocolate is offline
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You say that you expect bio-mom to quit paying the cellphone bill soon. Have you and your husband considered getting your daughter her own phone? You get brownie points for reconnecting her. You get to set the ground rules for the phone, you get the bill and see who called/ was called, you can chose which phone you want to get her, and can decide if you want to install mobile phone spying software.
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  #243  
Old 03-19-2010, 04:11 PM
AClockworkMelon AClockworkMelon is offline
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Originally Posted by Tastes of Chocolate View Post
You say that you expect bio-mom to quit paying the cellphone bill soon. Have you and your husband considered getting your daughter her own phone? You get brownie points for reconnecting her. You get to set the ground rules for the phone, you get the bill and see who called/ was called, you can chose which phone you want to get her, and can decide if you want to install mobile phone spying software.
I like this. Not to say that children are materialistic scum but... well, children are materialistic scum, just like their parents. If you've got the cash for it you could score points by buying her whatever phone is in vogue these days, but as Tastes of Chocolate said, it will be yours to control. I'm sure you can find a way to view texts sent and received online if you own the phone.
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  #244  
Old 03-19-2010, 04:24 PM
Katriona Katriona is online now
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I like this. Not to say that children are materialistic scum but... well, children are materialistic scum, just like their parents. If you've got the cash for it you could score points by buying her whatever phone is in vogue these days, but as Tastes of Chocolate said, it will be yours to control. I'm sure you can find a way to view texts sent and received online if you own the phone.
That might be good for the future, but somewhere upthread we find that Teenager already has an unserved detention for texting at school, so I'm thinking they probably don't want to reward that with a shiny new phone right off the bat.
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  #245  
Old 03-19-2010, 04:28 PM
Champion, the Drinker Champion, the Drinker is offline
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wholly shirt...this gentleman is a goddamn creepy pedo. Call Chris Hansen?
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  #246  
Old 03-19-2010, 04:31 PM
AClockworkMelon AClockworkMelon is offline
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wholly shirt...this gentleman is a goddamn creepy pedo. Call Chris Hansen?
Hm... 23 and 13.

That's only five years away from the situation you're in.
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  #247  
Old 03-19-2010, 04:32 PM
Champion, the Drinker Champion, the Drinker is offline
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Hm... 23 and 13.

That's only five years away from the situation you're in.
Yeah... but there's a friggin' world of difference between 18 and thirteen. And not a ton of difference between 23 and 28. One is qualitatively more predatory than the other.
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  #248  
Old 03-19-2010, 04:33 PM
AClockworkMelon AClockworkMelon is offline
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Originally Posted by Champion, the Drinker View Post
Yeah... but there's a friggin' world of difference between 18 and thirteen. And not a ton of difference between 23 and 28. One is qualitatively more predatory than the other.
Hahaha, don't worry, I know.
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  #249  
Old 03-19-2010, 04:36 PM
Champion, the Drinker Champion, the Drinker is offline
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Hahaha, don't worry, I know.
Oh, I'll bet you know all about the difference between 13 year olds and 18 year olds
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  #250  
Old 03-19-2010, 04:43 PM
AClockworkMelon AClockworkMelon is offline
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Oh, I'll bet you know all about the difference between 13 year olds and 18 year olds
I'm sure Mitze will be pleased as punch to see these posts.
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