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  #1  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:25 AM
amaguri amaguri is offline
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Renters: Do you expect your full security deposit back?

My tenants just moved out. They were very pleasant, no problems at all, but they did have a small dog and a cat. There are no obvious signs of damage but I want to take $100 from the security deposit to have all of the carpets steam cleaned before someone else moves in. Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:42 AM
Harmonious Discord Harmonious Discord is offline
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I'd expect my money back. Dirty carpets are normal wear. You need to put steam carpet cleaning at move out time into the contract if you want to charge them for it.
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  #3  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:45 AM
melodyharmonius melodyharmonius is offline
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If the unit is clean and not obvious signs of damage or unreasonable wear & tear, you can not withhold their security deposit.

Did they have a separate pet deposit? Those are usually non-refundable to cover carpet cleaning etc.

Whenever I have rented, it is assumed that new paint and carpet is standard maintenance costs incurred by the owner and is not part of a deposit. YMMV
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  #4  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:47 AM
sandra_nz sandra_nz is offline
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My contract states that as a tenant, I will get the carpets steam cleaned. If the contract you held with your tennant doesn't, then I think you should foot the cost.
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  #5  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:49 AM
Frank Frank is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaguri View Post
My tenants just moved out. They were very pleasant, no problems at all, but they did have a small dog and a cat. There are no obvious signs of damage but I want to take $100 from the security deposit to have all of the carpets steam cleaned before someone else moves in. Thoughts?
You should have the carpets steam cleaned between each tenant just as a normal way of maintaining the unit. That's part of your cost of doing business and should not be charged to the tenant. (If you've got the charge in the lease, or a non-refundable pet deposit in the lease, that's a different story. Doesn't sound like you do.)
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  #6  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:49 AM
fluiddruid fluiddruid is offline
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Whenever I've rented, steam carpet cleaning and/or pet fees/deposits are disclosed ahead of time. If your lease makes no mention of this, I don't see how it's appropriate to charge them.

For what it's worth: my last place did not specify, but we borrowed a small carpet cleaner to get high-traffic areas just to prevent problems (our landlord was a bit unpredictable, and also, as we found out later, a convicted thief). We did not pay for a professional cleaning since it wasn't required, and if we had been charged, we would have fought it. We did have a medium-size dog, as well. We took lots of pictures before we moved out to demonstrate no unusual wear and tear, as is my habit.

Last edited by fluiddruid; 03-26-2010 at 09:50 AM..
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  #7  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:50 AM
zweisamkeit zweisamkeit is offline
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Originally Posted by Harmonious Discord View Post
I'd expect my money back. Dirty carpets are normal wear. You need to put steam carpet cleaning at move out time into the contract if you want to charge them for it.
Agreed. As a renter, when I move out I assume that standard (ie, won't be deducted from security deposit) cleaning includes steam cleaning carpet and repainting the walls.

If there was like, gigantic pee stains or red wine stains, I could maybe understand it, but it just sounds like a standard steam cleaning. No obvious signs of damage == no security deposit deductions. I'd be pissed.
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  #8  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:53 AM
gang green gang green is offline
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Cleaning carpets is part of the make-ready process for a new tenant. Only if the carpet is stained would I expect the landlord to withhold any of my deposit.

I've lived in a lot of apartments, and only rarely did not get all of my deposit back. In those cases, the management company seemed to go out of their way to find the most nit-picky things to charge me for. One charged me for stained carpet caused by a broken toilet in the unit above mine - it was RAINING in my apartment, and it took them an hour to get a maintenance guy to turn the water off, since the people upstairs weren't at home. I was, as you can imagine, extremely pissed when they withheld money for that one.
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  #9  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:54 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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As a matter of reality, I always have considered my deposit to be lost money. Every landlord I've had has found some reason to keep it. It wasn't worth the effort to fight to get it back.

The one I recall as the most outrageous was the landlord who had decided to turn the apartment house where I was living into his personal residence. We got along okay - he even offered to rent me the smaller house where he had been living after he moved into the bigger house. As part of the renovation for converting the building from apartments to his own dwelling, he ripped out and replaced all of the walls, ceiling, and flooring in what had been my apartment. This was not needed repairs - it was just something he wanted to renovate. So there was no possible damage I could have done in that apartment that wouldn't have been covered by the renovations - I could have been raising and slaughtering livestock and any trace of it would have been gone by the time he was done. But despite this, I never saw a cent of my deposit.
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  #10  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:55 AM
amaguri amaguri is offline
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I find these replies interesting... I have not rented in a long time, but I -never-, not once, got my full security deposit back.

But now that I am the landlord, I want to do the right thing, so it looks like I'll just give it all back.
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  #11  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:59 AM
Mr. Excellent Mr. Excellent is offline
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Originally Posted by Harmonious Discord View Post
I'd expect my money back. Dirty carpets are normal wear. You need to put steam carpet cleaning at move out time into the contract if you want to charge them for it.
Exactly. My lease had exactly that provision. It is *normal* to steam-clean between tenants.
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  #12  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:01 AM
melodyharmonius melodyharmonius is offline
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The only time I've not gotten a security deposit back was if the landlord & I have agreed that they will use that rather than me paying the last month's rent.

I always left the place in better condition than I found it though - and I always did a final walk through or took pics to ensure that everything was found acceptable.

I once had someone try to withhold my deposit - but that was because she was a drug addict and she had spent it already. She came up with all these other outrageous claims as well and tried to take me to court. But since I had pics and an email from her stating the place looked great - it all got tossed out.
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  #13  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:08 AM
Shoeless Shoeless is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
As a matter of reality, I always have considered my deposit to be lost money. Every landlord I've had has found some reason to keep it. It wasn't worth the effort to fight to get it back.

The one I recall as the most outrageous was the landlord who had decided to turn the apartment house where I was living into his personal residence. We got along okay - he even offered to rent me the smaller house where he had been living after he moved into the bigger house. As part of the renovation for converting the building from apartments to his own dwelling, he ripped out and replaced all of the walls, ceiling, and flooring in what had been my apartment. This was not needed repairs - it was just something he wanted to renovate. So there was no possible damage I could have done in that apartment that wouldn't have been covered by the renovations - I could have been raising and slaughtering livestock and any trace of it would have been gone by the time he was done. But despite this, I never saw a cent of my deposit.
I lived in a place like that once. I had a roommate who worked at the local furniture rental shop, and the last thing he did after we had moved all the furniture out was to borrow a steam cleaner from work and meticulously steam-cleaned every inch of carpeting in that place. The landlords withheld our security deposit anyway, saying that the place hadn't been cleaned adequately. When we argued the point with them, they responded by giving us some BS story about how we had been a day late with our rent one month and therefore they weren't obliged to give us anything back and that in fact we should be grateful that we weren't evicted. We went back later in the summer to visit some friends who were still living in our old building, and discovered that the owners were tearing out and replacing all of the old carpeting in the empty units. Bastards.
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  #14  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:10 AM
Chessic Sense Chessic Sense is offline
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If you had a special provision for pets, you can keep some of it for the steam cleaning. If you never said anything about pets, or that a cleaning would be required before move-out, then it's a normal cost of business and it comes out of your pocket.

Sounds like you need to give it back.
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  #15  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:14 AM
Alice The Goon Alice The Goon is offline
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I discussed this subject (move-out and deposit) with my landlord when I moved into a new place a few months ago. He's apparently of the mind that the tenant that's moving out has to fully clean and ready the place for the next tenant, and if you don't, he gets to keep your deposit. I tried to make a case that the cleaning is his responsibility and part of the business of being a landlord, but he says no. So who's right, then?

OP, I'm glad that you're going to do the right thing. It would be pretty bogue of you to decide at the last minute to keep some of the deposit when it wasn't specifically laid out in the lease.
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  #16  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:16 AM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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Originally Posted by amaguri View Post
I find these replies interesting... I have not rented in a long time, but I -never-, not once, got my full security deposit back.

But now that I am the landlord, I want to do the right thing, so it looks like I'll just give it all back.
If you're going to continue to be a landlord, you should really, really familiarize yourself with the laws of your locale. There are often very specific laws regarding security deposits - like maximum amount, how it's held (often in a completely separate bank account), interest you must pay the tenant on it, how long you have after the lease ends to return it, and the hoops you need to go through to withhold some.

FTR, I've rented about 5 places, and the only time I didn't get the full deposit back was when the SOB landlord withheld $35 to clean the oven - which was no dirtier than when I had moved in. I fought him over it, won, and then put a pile of "tenants rights" pamphlets from the state in his front lobby.
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  #17  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:18 AM
amaguri amaguri is offline
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Originally Posted by Chessic Sense View Post
If you had a special provision for pets, you can keep some of it for the steam cleaning. If you never said anything about pets, or that a cleaning would be required before move-out, then it's a normal cost of business and it comes out of your pocket.

Sounds like you need to give it back.
I did tell them when they moved in that I wouldn't require a specific pet deposit or pet rent like some places charge, but I would look at the condition of the apt when they left and decide what to do then... to which they obviously agreed.

BUT... like I said, they were good people who didn't cause any problems, so it's probably not worth the hassle or potential ill will to try and keep some of the deposit.
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  #18  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:19 AM
Khaki Campbell Khaki Campbell is offline
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Cracked tiles, torn wallpaper everywhere because of scratching cats, hopelessly stained carpets, massive mold invasion...

No, I don't really expect my deposit back. Anyway, I don't even remember having payed one
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  #19  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:19 AM
amaguri amaguri is offline
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Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post
If you're going to continue to be a landlord, you should really, really familiarize yourself with the laws of your locale. There are often very specific laws regarding security deposits - like maximum amount, how it's held (often in a completely separate bank account), interest you must pay the tenant on it, how long you have after the lease ends to return it, and the hoops you need to go through to withhold some.
This is good advice, but as soon as I can sell this place without losing my shirt, I will. I hate being a landlord.
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  #20  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:28 AM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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Originally Posted by amaguri View Post
This is good advice, but as soon as I can sell this place without losing my shirt, I will. I hate being a landlord.
You should check out the laws anyway. You can lose money by breaking the rules - for example from the MA tenants bill of rights:

If the landlord uses a lease that contains any provision that conflicts with the Security Deposit Law and attempts to enforce that provision or attempts to obtain from you or a prospective tenant a waiver of any provision of the Security Deposit Law, the landlord cannot keep your security deposit for any reason including making deductions for damages.

(my bolding)
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  #21  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:33 AM
kapri kapri is offline
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In all my many years of renting, I never got a security deposit back, no matter how many hours I spent cleaning the apartment within an inch of its life and no matter how spotless and move-in ready the apartment was when I moved out.

Never.
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  #22  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:39 AM
amarinth amarinth is offline
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In one of my previous leases, it said they would deduct X from my deposit for cleaning or I could show them the rental receipt for a steam cleaner instead.
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  #23  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:49 AM
nashiitashii nashiitashii is offline
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IIRC, in Florida a landlord has to legally clean or replace the carpets in between each tenant. If it's a legal requirement for health and safety in your area to clean or replace the carpets, then I believe it would be understood that this expense would be coming out of your own pocket and not be an expense covered with the security deposit. Additionally, if you're a landlord for more than one property, it might be a good idea to keep all security deposits in a separate bank account so that the deposits are guaranteed to be available on the occasion that the tenant is leaving and is entitled to the return of their security deposit.

The last time I moved out of a place that had a security deposit, I was transferring my name off the lease and another person's name onto the lease; in this instance, I had forfeited the security deposit because of this action. If, when we move from this rental, I don't receive the majority (if not all) of the security deposit after cleaning the premises, I will be requesting an itemized invoice showing what my security deposit was used on and why I was not entitled to receiving it back. Considering that my security deposit is being held in a separate account from my rents (according to the property mgmt company), I expect that it didn't just disappear.
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  #24  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:55 AM
Lanzy Lanzy is offline
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My last place I rented gave me every dime back. I expect this every time I rent. Pet deposits are Not returned but this had better be specified in the agreement. If you keep money from me you had better have a contract that says you can and be ready to prove you are right.
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  #25  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:58 AM
breaking-reality breaking-reality is offline
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I have never gotten a full security deposit back, and cleaning/steam cleaning carpets has always been deducted.

Did I think it was fair? Not really, as I went over all of the places with a fine tooth comb before moving out...but in my opinion, it is fairly standard practice.
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  #26  
Old 03-26-2010, 11:02 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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As I own pets and my pets do cause some minor damage no, I don't expect the full security deposit back unless I foot the bill for all of those repairs myself. (Chief causalities of late seem to be window shades - which I have already replaced - but in the past there have been issues regarding stains, chewing, etc. - it can happen if you have pets)

As to whether or not it's fair in the case of the OP - can't say without looking. However, I agree that carpet cleaning and paint should be standard costs of prepping a rental unit borne by the landlord. Actually, cleaning the whole unit is standard maintenance, unless some unholy thing occurred. Unless otherwise stated in the lease, of course.
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  #27  
Old 03-26-2010, 11:17 AM
Poysyn Poysyn is offline
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I only once did not get the deposit back - but we left on very bad terms and both us (the tenants) and them (the landlord) tried to screw the other.
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  #28  
Old 03-26-2010, 11:22 AM
Vihaga Vihaga is offline
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We didn't in our last apartment,but we accepted it because we'd done kind of a half-assed job in repainting (they stipulated that if we painted, we had to paint it back to a light color. We did, but I wasn't happy with it). If the place had only had normal wear and cleaning wasn't addressed in the lease, we'd have fought it.
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  #29  
Old 03-26-2010, 11:55 AM
This_Just_In... This_Just_In... is offline
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In the Portland, OR Metro area I spent a few years living in several different apartment complexes for 50+ units for 6 months plus. When I left the first few I cleaned like a dog before I left so that there would be no excuse to not get the security deposit back.
Wasted effort - I didn't get it back because they still needed a few hundred dollars to hire a cleaning company to 'properly' clean the apartment.

I should add I hardly was even in these apartments, I travelled a lot with my work and spent about 8-9 days a month if that at home. I am not a messy person and due to my cleaning efforts I probably left them in better shape than when I entered them.

Via certified mail and instructions from Clark Howard's website I tried explaining the situation and asking my for my money back from the property management companies - to no avail. I wasn't really willing to take it all the way to small claims court due to the inconvenience for a few hundred dollars.

After getting burned doing that a few times I wrote off the security deposit in my mind when I got a new place. I didn't bother to clean up anything when leaving either. Their loss in my mind.

From talking to other renters in the Portland area, I got the impression that keeping all of the security deposit is pretty standard practice. Under the guise of needing to hire expensive cleaning companies they could keep 1/2 months rent easily.
This only applied to 50+ unit complexes. My dealings with smaller scale renters have been much better.
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  #30  
Old 03-26-2010, 11:58 AM
ZenBeam ZenBeam is offline
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Originally Posted by amaguri View Post
But now that I am the landlord, I want to do the right thing, so it looks like I'll just give it all back.
At the apartment I rented a long time ago, they specifically told us that the paint was expected to last two years. If we moved out after less than two years, and if the apartment needed to be repainted, we'd be charged some (I believe prorated) amount from the deposit.

Something similar for steam cleaning in the lease up front would be reasonable. With pets, you could plan to always steam clean afterward, but perhaps have an amount specified to be taken out from the deposit unless they are there two or three years.
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  #31  
Old 03-26-2010, 12:33 PM
garygnu garygnu is offline
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According to the advice from our apartment owners' association, the security deposit allows deductions for cleaning costs so that the apartment is at the same cleanliness level as at the beginning of tenancy. However, if the carpets are cleaned by the tenants on their own before moving out, that's good enough.

Even when we do deduct for a pro cleaner, we use a guy who gives us a good deal, usually less than $50, and we give his number to tenants if they want to have him come out directly.

Our last tenant who moved out had their own steam cleaner and did a darn good job of it.

I can't imagine landlords who keep the whole deposit. I worry about complaints about keeping $75 for repairs.
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  #32  
Old 03-26-2010, 12:38 PM
badbadrubberpiggy badbadrubberpiggy is offline
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If you want to charge people for pet-related cleaning, charge a pet fee when they move in. Carpets are going to get dirty whether you have pets or not. If they pets actually ruined something, of course you should keep whatever would cover that, but not just normal wear & tear when you knew they had pets.

I expect my full security deposit back, though we paid a pet fee and do not expect that back.
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  #33  
Old 03-26-2010, 12:39 PM
badbadrubberpiggy badbadrubberpiggy is offline
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Originally Posted by amaguri View Post
I find these replies interesting... I have not rented in a long time, but I -never-, not once, got my full security deposit back.
.
I've always gotten mine with one exception for a carpet I stained, and I've been renting for 10 years.
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  #34  
Old 03-26-2010, 12:51 PM
Cat Whisperer Cat Whisperer is offline
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I rented many places for many years, and getting my damage deposit back was always a crap shoot, in spite of me almost universally leaving the place in better condition than when I moved in (I too cleaned like a mad bastard to get my deposit back - no cleaning company would have cleaned it better). I also would consider a steam cleaning for the carpet and painting the walls to be the landlord's normal maintenance between tenants, but I wasn't too surprised when costs for things like this were deducted from my damage deposit. I did learn, however, to do an extremely thorough walkthrough the day I took possession of the apartment, with the rental agency, and noted every little thing.

I'm glad I own now.
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  #35  
Old 03-26-2010, 12:56 PM
Perciful Perciful is offline
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I expect my full security deposit back because I always leave it better then when I got it.

My Dad owned rentals and he always painted and had the carpets cleaned after each tenant left. He wrote it off on his taxes and didn't pass it on to the tenent. That is considered normal wear and tear.

Sounds like they were good tenants so I would give them their deposit back. My apartment didn't have clean rugs when I moved in and I ended up doing them. i have a great landlord who moved me to a nicer part of town so I ate it.
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  #36  
Old 03-26-2010, 12:57 PM
ENugent ENugent is offline
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I have always gotten my full deposit back, except for disclosed-up-front nonrefundable pet deposits. I had a friend in MA who did not get his back (landlady claimed he put holes in the ceiling, which was not true), and successfully sued his landlady for treble damages. He got a lien on her house until she paid him.

I would definitely second the suggestion to look into landlord-tenant laws in your state. You might be surprised.
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  #37  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:02 PM
Rigamarole Rigamarole is offline
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Yes I expect to get it back. My last landlord didn't give me back a dime of my $1,550 deposit so I sued her and won. (though the whole process was a big pain in the ass and it took over a year to actually get the money back)

In California the laws are pretty favorable toward renters. I'll echo the above posters' comments to acquaint yourself with the relevant laws of your state.
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  #38  
Old 03-26-2010, 08:15 PM
LurkMeister LurkMeister is offline
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The last apartment (actually a condo unit) I rented required a $100 non-refundable pet deposit for my cat; the lease also stipulated that I had to have the carpets professionally cleaned (and provide a copy of the receipt for it). When I moved out I wasn't sure if I'd get my full deposit back because one of the walls had been slightly damaged (I had attempted to repair it myself, but it was still visible), and even after the carpet was cleaned there were patches of cat hair in some areas of the carpet. But apparently the owner decided it wasn't severe enough to warrant charging me for it. I've always wondered if it was because the unit was being sold anyway; after I informed the owner's management service that I was not planning to renew the lease because I was planning to buy a house they sent me a letter offering to sell me the condo at a slight reduction from the planned asking price.
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  #39  
Old 03-26-2010, 08:29 PM
Taomist Taomist is offline
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I agree with the rest. Normal wear and tear is the responsibility of the owner; the renters pay to live there, not to not-live there. Deposits are for actual damage issues.

That being said, every landlord I've had has kept everything, even after walk-throughs WITH said landlords to verify everything's fine, and now I just assume the deposit is lost and pound whatever nails into whatever walls I want to, and don't worry about stains in carpets. Not worth fighting over. You want the deposit? Fine. You can use it to return the place to pristine condition. I'm not helping.
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  #40  
Old 03-26-2010, 08:37 PM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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If the tenent stayed a year, and there is a year's worth of wear and tear, you aren't entitled to anything.

Security deposits are for excessive damage not normal wear and tear. They are also not for routine maintence, which is yearly painting and yearly carpet cleaning. As a landlord you should be refreshing paint and cleaning carpets every year, even if the tenant stays.

Of course in the real world, I've never gotten my deposit back. Of course I've never had a nice flat so it's expected that you'll lose it.

This is why a lot of tenants default on the last month. They figure it's a tit for tat rip off
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  #41  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:06 PM
Risha Risha is offline
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The only time I didn't get my full deposit back was completely fair - we hadn't realized that the bed frame was ripping up the carpet under it.

At my current place I expect to get all or most of it back, as I paid a pet deposit upfront. But I wouldn't be surprised, or very upset really, if I didn't. I have several pets, and am realistic about what it does to my rental options.
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  #42  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:16 PM
boytyperanma boytyperanma is offline
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I'd expect the security deposit back with interest.
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  #43  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:02 PM
madrabbitwoman madrabbitwoman is online now
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Originally Posted by boytyperanma View Post
I'd expect the security deposit back with interest.
When I last moved it got the deposit plus about $70 in interest - colour me very pleased.
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  #44  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:17 PM
Acid Lamp Acid Lamp is offline
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Originally Posted by amaguri View Post
My tenants just moved out. They were very pleasant, no problems at all, but they did have a small dog and a cat. There are no obvious signs of damage but I want to take $100 from the security deposit to have all of the carpets steam cleaned before someone else moves in. Thoughts?
No. If there is no signs then you owe them the money back. If you want to steam clean it is your responsibility not theirs. Deposits are guarantees against damages, not against perceived "dirtyness".
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  #45  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:23 PM
amaguri amaguri is offline
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All right, you party-poopers. I gave them back 100% of their deposit.
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  #46  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:29 PM
Taomist Taomist is offline
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Originally Posted by amaguri View Post
All right, you party-poopers. I gave them back 100% of their deposit.
Yay!!

Thank you from the bottom of my ever-renting heart.
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  #47  
Old 03-26-2010, 11:04 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is offline
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I never expect to see a penny of the security deposit. Even if I"m moving in the same city, I know the management company is holding all the cards. Moving sucks and I'm not burning a vacation day to sit in small claims court to bicker over a deposit. If I paid a significant deposit, then I'd fight harder.

I'll usually end up with about 50% of the deposit back.
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  #48  
Old 03-26-2010, 11:41 PM
Captain_C Captain_C is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Here's a .pdf from the Michigan Legislature that is a bit of a quick-reference guide with regards to tenant/landlord rights and responsibilities:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/La...5_142052_7.pdf

I found it very helpful when I was telling a previous landlord that he could go fuck himself with a rusty hook if he thought I was paying $1,600 for what amounted to standard cleaning fees. No, I'm not bitter
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  #49  
Old 03-27-2010, 12:49 AM
susan susan is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2002
I always got my full deposit. Back. I always left the place in good shape.
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  #50  
Old 03-27-2010, 02:36 AM
Nava Nava is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
I only had a landlord try to withhold my deposit once. Since the local law allowed for it, and since she was dumb enough to tell me beforehand that I wouldn't get the deposit back, I register-mailed a letter stating I was going to use my last month as my deposit payback (i.e., not pay the last month). That was the landlord who hadn't had the apartment ready for move-in; I had documents and witnesses showing that I'd had to make several legally-required repairs. Her agent called me once, quoting sales law (for some reason she kept doing that, quote sales law instead of renters' law), I pointed her to the proper law, she never called again.

Every other place I've had my full refund, and that's having rented in six different countries (two US states, three Spanish provinces). I make very sure to read the lease in detail to determine whether it's OK or not to use nails on the walls, use blu-tack on the walls, move the furniture around (yes, I've had leases which forbade this one)... and comply. If the lease doesn't say I've got to pay for the painting and cleaning, then I expect the full refund.

And you're a sweetheart, amaguri
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Last edited by Nava; 03-27-2010 at 02:39 AM..
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